307 réponses à ce sujet

[R4ZOR GHO5T]

dreamgazer wrote...

pablosplinter wrote...



Ha!...it has got to the stage where people don't even defend ME3's plot anymore, they just say 'other games are bad too'

Considering how frequently people who "defend" ME3's plot are labeled drones and derided, and how it's far easier to twist something negatively in the first place, it's become a futile endeavor over the past two years.   Everything's been said, many times over.  I think it's overhated, personally, but I also acknowledge its faults.

And yes, stupid writing and logic exists across the entire series.

That's because a lot of people have brought up some absolutely terrible points when it comes to defending ME3 and come across as just "HURR DURR GLOIOUS BIOWARE" (not you specifically of course).

But yes, all three games have major holes and flaws, but where you can overlook them in ME1 & 2 and enjoy what is overall a great gaming experience; the same cannot be said for ME3.

Modifié par R4ZOR GHO5T, 12 janvier 2014 - 10:15 .

[AlanC9]

R4ZOR GHO5T wrote...

But yes, all three games have major holes and flaws, but where you can overlook them in ME1 & 2 and enjoy what is overall a great gaming experience; the same cannot be said for ME3.

It can't be said? News to me. Why can't it?

[David7204]

I've seen 'terrible points' in defending the ending and the Crucible. Aside from that, the 'terrible' arguments are pretty much entirely on the other side.

[R4ZOR GHO5T]

AlanC9 wrote...

R4ZOR GHO5T wrote...

But yes, all three games have major holes and flaws, but where you can overlook them in ME1 & 2 and enjoy what is overall a great gaming experience; the same cannot be said for ME3.

It can't be said? News to me. Why can't it?

-Auto dialogue 
- Retcons
- The Reapear motive 'reveal'
- Forced creepy romances
- The side quests

And that thing called the ending?

[David7204]

Oh boy. Speak of the devil. What 'retcons' are we talking about? What 'forced romances'?

I'm guessing you're also under the mistaken impression that the scanning missions somehow 'replaced' side quests in ME 1 and ME 2?

Modifié par David7204, 12 janvier 2014 - 10:25 .

[R4ZOR GHO5T]

David7204 wrote...

Oh boy. Speak of the devil. What 'retcons' are we talking about? What 'forced romances'?

Off the top of my head:

The major one being the whole of Mass Effect 1, explain this; what the hell was the Catalyst doing the whole time whilst the Battle of the Citadel was raging on? If "The Citadel is a part of him" why would he need Soveriegn to open the relay?

What happened to the Conduit on Illos?

What about the group of Reapers (lead by Harbinger) being seen leaving the battle to stop Shepard from reaching the beam on Earth? Only Harbinger shows up...

From ME2's Arrival DLC it is made very clear that a relay exploding causes an explosion big enough to wipe out a whole system, how come this didn't happen in ME3 in the low-EMS endings? (Post EC DLC)

Oh, and Dark Energy.

Forced romances? No, none at all, besides Liara being shoved down the player's throat at every turn... 

Oh and that bit about the side missions? Not a mistake, my opinion, if you prefer fetch and return to actual missions with dialogue, gameplay and a bit of thought behind it, then good for you.

Modifié par R4ZOR GHO5T, 12 janvier 2014 - 10:34 .

[David7204]

Let's begin with your whining that a character is 'shoved down your throat.'

All stories have characters, period. All stories. And just because a story is a video game or an RPG does not give you any right whatsoever to dictate when and where characters appear. The idea that 'your' game should only include characters you personally like is not only impossible from a technical perspective, but ludacris from a narrative one.

If you don't care for Liara, that's fine. However you have no basis whatsoever to complain on the grounds of "A character appears, I don't have control over it, and I don't like it." (Which of course is what's going on. It should be abundantly clear the whining on the BSN over Liara really has very little to nothing to do with her character.) If the mere existence of characters in stories offends you, my suggestion would be to avoid fiction.

Really, this is nothing more than "HURR DURR SHOVED DOWN MY THROAT." Hey, didn't someone just say something about 'terrible points'?

Modifié par David7204, 12 janvier 2014 - 10:35 .

[R4ZOR GHO5T]

StreetMagic wrote...

R4ZOR GHO5T wrote...

Forced romances? No, none at all, besides Liara being shoved down the player's throat at every turn... 

Forced, yes. Romance, I disagree. If you talk to just about anyone, it comes off intimate, almost like romance. Talking to Miranda comes off like you had something with her at one point. I think they don't have the time to make enough variations. You could very well construe Shepard having forced affections with Ashley, with the way Mars is written. He comes off closer to her than Liara.

Fair enough, it just felt to me that Liara was their primary focus for characters and they did a good job on her character, it just felt too in my face considering I'd friendzoned her long ago 

Eugh, the Ashley romance was very dissapointing in my opinion.

[David7204]

And we've got confirmation!

R4ZOR GHO5T wrote...

...and they did a good job on her character

David7204 wrote...

It should be abundantly clear the whining on the BSN over Liara really has very little to nothing to do with her character.

Modifié par David7204, 12 janvier 2014 - 10:38 .

[R4ZOR GHO5T]

David7204 wrote...

Let's begin with your whining that a character is 'shoved down your throat.'

All stories have characters, period. All stories. And just because a story is a video game or an RPG does not give you any right whatsoever to dictate when and where characters appear. The idea that 'your' game should only include characters you personally like is not only impossible from a technical perspective, but ludacris from a narrative one.

If you don't care for Liara, that's fine. However you have no basis whatsoever to complain on the grounds of "A character appears, I don't have control over it, and I don't like it." (Which of course is what's going on. It should be abundantly clear the whining on the BSN over Liara really has very little to nothing to do with her character.) If the mere existence of characters in stories offends you, my suggestion would be to avoid fiction.

Really, this is nothing more than "HURR DURR SHOVED DOWN MY THROAT." Hey, didn't someone just say something about 'terrible points'?

Are you capable of understanding my points? Just wondering...

Characters are of course an integral part to a story but Liara was one that was too forced upon the player, let's look at a few examples:

After your first nightmare, Liara appears.
Just after Mars, Liara.
Her time capsule thing.

I could go on, I'm not saying she is a bad character by any means, but she seemed top of BioWare's priorities in terms of character developement.

[R4ZOR GHO5T]

StreetMagic wrote...

Calm down, David. It's not that bad.

He's clearly very angry he's come across someone on the internet with a different opinion to him on a video game character. My bad...

[David7204]

Hey, let me pick up this Harry Potter book right next to my desk. Page 50. Ron appears. Page 51 Ron appears. Page 52. Ron appears. Page 65. Ron appears.

And on and on for a few hundred pages.

Uh-oh! I don't particularly like Ron! A character exists and has 'screentime' I don't like! He must be 'shoved down my throat!' He must be 'forced!'

....

Nothing is 'forced' because you have don't have any right to dictate which characters appear in the first place. The storyteller decides that. Not you. Everything in a story is 'forced' by that absurd definition.

Shepard? Forced!
The Normandy? Forced!
Aliens? Forced!
Takes place in the future? Forced!

You see how ridiculous this is?

Modifié par David7204, 12 janvier 2014 - 10:44 .

[themikefest]

R4ZOR GHO5T wrote...

StreetMagic wrote...

Calm down, David. It's not that bad.

He's clearly very angry he's come across someone on the internet with a different opinion to him on a video game character. My bad...

He gets upset when bad things are said about T'soni.

[R4ZOR GHO5T]

David7204 wrote...

Hey, let me pick up this Harry Potter book right next to my desk. Page 50. Ron appears. Page 51 Ron appears. Page 52. Ron appears. Page 65. Ron appears.

And on and on for a few hundred pages.

Uh-oh! I don't particularly like Ron! A character exists and has 'screentime' I don't like! He must be 'shoved down my throat!' He must be 'forced!'

That's comepletely different, Harry, Ron & Hermione are the three protagonists of the Harry Potter series, there are no set main companions in Mass Effect, it's all about choice. (Or so it's suppose to be)

Modifié par R4ZOR GHO5T, 12 janvier 2014 - 10:43 .

[R4ZOR GHO5T]

themikefest wrote...

R4ZOR GHO5T wrote...

StreetMagic wrote...

Calm down, David. It's not that bad.

He's clearly very angry he's come across someone on the internet with a different opinion to him on a video game character. My bad...

He gets upset when bad things are said about T'soni.

I don't really recall saying anything bad, I like Liara as much as anyone but she was just shoved in your face so much.

[AlanC9]

R4ZOR GHO5T wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...
It can't be said? News to me. Why can't it?

-Auto dialogue 
- Retcons
- The Reapear motive 'reveal'
- Forced creepy romances
- The side quests

And that thing called the ending?

Not particularly bothered by any of these. Some are them are outright positives; I'll put Grissom Academy up against any sidequest in ME1 or ME2, for instance, and I'll take the Reaper motive reveal over the irrational nonsense ME1 and ME2 saddled the series with.

I don't even know what you mean when you say forced creepy romances, actually. You don't like Liara, yep. Poor baby. But most of her content isn't romance-related. If anything, Liara got the shaft so Traynor could have something to do.. Doesn't bother me since I like Traynor fine, but really, that stuff should have been Liara's job.

Modifié par AlanC9, 12 janvier 2014 - 10:48 .

[David7204]

'Choice' does not allow storytellers to violate the basic premises of all stories. Several of which are that stories have plots and stories have characters. There never has been a story-based video game with no 'forced' interaction. There never will be. The player is 'forced' to talk to Anderson, to EDI, to Miranda, to Joker, to the Illusive Man, and to countless other people. A story cannot function without so-called 'forcing' the player to do things.

Modifié par David7204, 12 janvier 2014 - 10:47 .

[R4ZOR GHO5T]

AlanC9 wrote...

R4ZOR GHO5T wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...
It can't be said? News to me. Why can't it?

-Auto dialogue 
- Retcons
- The Reapear motive 'reveal'
- Forced creepy romances
- The side quests

And that thing called the ending?

Not particularly bothered by any of these. Some are them are outright positives; I'll put Grissom Academy up against any sidequest in ME1 or ME2, for instance, and I'll take the Reaper motive reveal over the irrational nonsense ME1 and ME2 saddled the series with.

I don't even know what you mean when you say forced creepy romances, actually.

Really? You enjoyed watching your Shepard do and say things he/she wouldn't say/do?

Eh whatever floats your boat.

What irrational nonsense? As far as I'm aware the Reaper's motives were not revealed in ME1 & 2 beyond the fact they wanted to eradicate all advanced organic life...

[R4ZOR GHO5T]

David7204 wrote...

'Choice' does not allow storytellers to violate the basic premises of all stories. Several of which are that stories have plots and stories have characters. There never has been a story-based video game with no 'forced' interaction. There never will be. The player is 'forced' to talk to Anderson, to EDI, to Miranda, to Joker, to the Illusive Man, and to countless other people. A story cannot function without so-called 'forcing' the player to do things.

I fail to see what this has in relevance to Liara?

[AlanC9]

R4ZOR GHO5T wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...
Not particularly bothered by any of these. Some are them are outright positives; I'll put Grissom Academy up against any sidequest in ME1 or ME2, for instance, and I'll take the Reaper motive reveal over the irrational nonsense ME1 and ME2 saddled the series with.

I don't even know what you mean when you say forced creepy romances, actually.

Really? You enjoyed watching your Shepard do and say things he/she wouldn't say/do?

Eh whatever floats your boat.

I guess I shouldn't have used as fancy a phrase as "not particularly bothered," since that seems to have gone right by you.  I found autodialogue to be a slight annoyance, yep. All three games had slight annoyances of one type or another. I don't get my panties in a bunch over any of them.

What irrational nonsense? As far as I'm aware the Reaper's motives were not revealed in ME1 & 2 beyond the fact they wanted to eradicate all advanced organic life...

The cycles are a stupid way to do that, if that's all they want to do. ME2 made things worse by implying that the Reapers depend on sapient organics for reporduction.

Modifié par AlanC9, 12 janvier 2014 - 10:53 .

[R4ZOR GHO5T]

StreetMagic wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

 I'll put Grissom Academy up against any sidequest in ME1 or ME2, for instance, and I'll take the Reaper motive reveal over the irrational nonsense ME1 and ME2 saddled the series with.

I would too, but I don't know if it really qualifies as sidequest. It's in some third category. Merely optional quest maybe? ME1 and 2 sidequests have more relation to the N7 quests (multiplayer maps). Grissom (and Grunt's mission) might be as large as Garrus'/Menae.

Oh I wasn't referring to those, in fact I quite liked those types of missions. It's the scanning planets then returning to the Citadel that annoyed me.

What ever happened to conversation? All you do in ME3 is invade people's privacy then go get something they want.