435 réponses à ce sujet

[Comrade Wakizashi]

The Reapers are completely rational according to the logic of their creation. They enact an excessive and extreme version of this logic, but it's still in line with their algorithms that were created by the Leviathans.

Does that mean that they're right? Hell no. Their entire fear of synthetics one day completely destroying all organic life is in my opinion, nonsense.
And even if their fear would be right, "saving" organic life by destroying isn't exactly helping. The Reapers are actually doing exactly that what they say they prevent. Be it on a slightly smaller scale than what the Catalyst predict would happen.

[Hazegurl]

StreetMagic wrote...

The only synthetics enslaving anybody are the Reapers themselves. How can they solve a problem when they are the only example of that problem?

Pretty much this. If the catalyst truly believes his own logic then he would kill himself along with the Reapers.

[Comrade Wakizashi]

Hazegurl wrote...

StreetMagic wrote...

The only synthetics enslaving anybody are the Reapers themselves. How can they solve a problem when they are the only example of that problem?

Pretty much this. If the catalyst truly believes his own logic then he would kill himself along with the Reapers.

This, just this.

[R4ZOR GHO5T]

 No, the Catalyst and the Reapers are completely wrong, and I'm going to explain why. 

If no one could rage at me for voicing my opinion here btw I'd appreciate it

Throught Mass Effect 1 and 2 (and most of ME3) all we learn about the Reapers' motives is that it is beyond our comprehension and they "impose order on the chaos", in the Leviathan DLC we get a bit more exposition on the Reapers but it is in the last 10-20 minutes of the game that the Reapers and their motives are completely and utterly destroyed and the suppose immortal skyscraper heigh deities are reduced to being nothing more than puppets to a mad Space-Hitler (yes, I am quoting Smudboy there.)

The Catalyst's logic is completely broken, how is wiping out organics so organics are not wiped out by Synthetics solve anything? Sure, this may of been a short term solution, but this is not a permanent solution. Again, to quote Smudboy "Billy has a problem with Bobby and likes to beat him up, so to ensure that Billy doesn't do it again I'm going to punch Bobby so hard until his face doesn't exist so Billy can't hurt him." Do you see how stupid it sounds?

Now I come to the Control solution; why can't the Catalyst just make the Reapers stop? If all Shepard does when he becomes the new Catalyst is make them stop, then why can't the current Catalyst do the same?

"Conflict will always arise between synthetics and organics", really, Catalsty? Because in my game the Geth were on our side and so were the Quarians. 

The Leviathans created the Catalyst to solve the problem of conflict arising between organics and synthetics, how is wiping out organics and turning them into floating grave yards a solution?

[RevenantWolf]

congokong wrote...

Some points I need to make.


1) Leviathan didn't program the catalyst to believe that synthetics would always destroy organics. The catalyst came to this conclusion itself after studying many civilizations. The catalyst's equivalent to an organic's self-preservation instinct was to find some "solution" to the problem and decided on the reapers.

2) The peace between the Geth and Quarians (which only goes on for a few weeks during ME3) or EDI is far too short-term to cite as evidence to disprove the catalyst. EDI for example is allowed to co-exist with organics because she's useful. Everyone uses her. The idea is that in the long-run AIs will vastly surpass organics. This is evident by how quickly they can communicate, learn, build superior hardware, dreadnoughts, etc. My OP is assuming that the catalyst knows in the long-term the peace won't last. Honestly I believe this as well as humans can barely co-exist with each other. Eventually AIs would evolve enough that they would no longer see reason in tolerating organic flaws, or perhaps organics would throw the first stone. It would likely end with synthetics keeping organics for their own purposes (as humans do with animals) or simply exterminating them.

Javik: "There is room in the galaxy for only one form of life; the chaos of the organic or the perfection of the synthetic."

3) While in the long term each species does get exterminated by synthetics once they get too technologically curious, each one has time to thrive. The notion is that if left alone synthetics would dominate all life in the galaxy at once rather than in intervals as the reapers are doing. This would prevent any organic species to live on its own for any duration.

The bolded is speculation, The underlined is objectively wrong, as the Geth were split on what direction they should go. This is told to you in ME2. They are just as flawed as organics. Sentience is a gift and a curse.

[AlanC9]

R4ZOR GHO5T wrote...
If no one could rage at me for voicing my opinion here btw I'd appreciate it

I can't do rage here anymore. The best I can come up with these days is a sort of bemused contempt.

Throught Mass Effect 1 and 2 (and most of ME3) all we learn about the Reapers' motives is that it is beyond our comprehension and they "impose order on the chaos", in the Leviathan DLC we get a bit more exposition on the Reapers but it is in the last 10-20 minutes of the game that the Reapers and their nonexistent motives are completely and utterly destroyed and the suppose immortal skyscraper heigh deities are reduced to being nothing more than puppets to a mad Space-Hitler (yes, I am quoting Smudboy there.)

Fixed. The ending didn't break anything because there was never anything there to break. "Beyond our comprehension" was just a placeholder to cover up Bio's frantic search for a way to explain the silly mess that ME1 and ME2 left for ME3.

The Reapers do end up looking pathetic, sure. I don't have a problem with that.

Now I come to the Control solution; why can't the Catalyst just make the Reapers stop? If all Shepard does when he becomes the new Catalyst is make them stop, then why can't the current Catalyst do the same?

Why would he ever do that? He doesn't think just stopping solves anything. He doesn't have any better ideas besides Synthesis, and he can't do that himself.

[Comrade Wakizashi]

Of course the Reapers look pathetic in the end. Their motives are in fact pathetic. And I like it that way. It shows that even all-powerful destructive beings of doom can in fact be wrong.

[R4ZOR GHO5T]

AlanC9 wrote...

R4ZOR GHO5T wrote...
If no one could rage at me for voicing my opinion here btw I'd appreciate it

I can't do rage here anymore. The best I can come up with these days is a sort of bemused contempt.

Throught Mass Effect 1 and 2 (and most of ME3) all we learn about the Reapers' motives is that it is beyond our comprehension and they "impose order on the chaos", in the Leviathan DLC we get a bit more exposition on the Reapers but it is in the last 10-20 minutes of the game that the Reapers and their nonexistent motives are completely and utterly destroyed and the suppose immortal skyscraper heigh deities are reduced to being nothing more than puppets to a mad Space-Hitler (yes, I am quoting Smudboy there.)

Fixed. The ending didn't break anything because there was never anything there to break. "Beyond our comprehension" was just a placeholder to cover up Bio's frantic search for a way to explain the silly mess that ME1 and ME2 left for ME3.

The Reapers do end up looking pathetic, sure. I don't have a problem with that.

Now I come to the Control solution; why can't the Catalyst just make the Reapers stop? If all Shepard does when he becomes the new Catalyst is make them stop, then why can't the current Catalyst do the same?

Why would he ever do that? He doesn't think just stopping solves anything. He doesn't have any better ideas besides Synthesis, and he can't do that himself.

Who says he doesn't think it can solve anything? He's this supposed great, ancient intelligence and he can't figure out that the Reapers ARE the problem? Also, can he not see that Organics and Synthetics are getting along?

If he doesn't have any other good ideas beside Synthesis, why does he suggest Destroy or Control?

Bemused contempt? Because someone may have a differing opinion?

[R4ZOR GHO5T]

Comrade Wakizashi wrote...

Of course the Reapers look pathetic in the end. Their motives are in fact pathetic. And I like it that way. It shows that even all-powerful destructive beings of doom can in fact be wrong.

So turning seeming unstoppable towering gods into floating graveyards doing what some Space Hitler says is a good reveal? What happened to each Reaper being an independent nation? Did none of them object to the Star Brat's stupid, incoherent solution?

[ElSuperGecko]

[Comrade Wakizashi]

R4ZOR GHO5T wrote...

Comrade Wakizashi wrote...

Of course the Reapers look pathetic in the end. Their motives are in fact pathetic. And I like it that way. It shows that even all-powerful destructive beings of doom can in fact be wrong.

So turning seeming unstoppable towering gods into floating graveyards doing what some Space Hitler says is a good reveal? What happened to each Reaper being an independent nation? Did none of them object to the Star Brat's stupid, incoherent solution?

The Reapers don't have a will of their own. I wouldn't even call them living or sapient beings. They are tools of destruction. The reason why this contradicts earlier assumptions about the Reapers is quite frankly because those assumptions (made by species who had never witnessed the Reapers or thoroughly examined them) were at least partially wrong.

[NeonFlux117]

ElSuperGecko wrote...

All day Gecko you have been pure gold. Please continue. 

[R4ZOR GHO5T]

Comrade Wakizashi wrote...

R4ZOR GHO5T wrote...

Comrade Wakizashi wrote...

Of course the Reapers look pathetic in the end. Their motives are in fact pathetic. And I like it that way. It shows that even all-powerful destructive beings of doom can in fact be wrong.

So turning seeming unstoppable towering gods into floating graveyards doing what some Space Hitler says is a good reveal? What happened to each Reaper being an independent nation? Did none of them object to the Star Brat's stupid, incoherent solution?

The Reapers don't have a will of their own. I wouldn't even call them living or sapient beings. They are tools of destruction. The reason why this contradicts earlier assumptions about the Reapers is quite frankly because those assumptions (made by species who had never witnessed the Reapers or thoroughly examined them) were at least partially wrong.

Any assumptions I had about the Reapers had come from conclusions I'd drawn myself from what the Reapers said.

Anyone remember that game called Mass Effect where you had that intimidating chat with that immortal huge machine called Soveriegn? And no matter how much you told him you'd stop him even you weren't partly convinced? The menace in Soveriegn's voice, it's confidence, weird coming from just a machine doing what it's told that has no interest in war.

[Comrade Wakizashi]

R4ZOR GHO5T wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

R4ZOR GHO5T wrote...
If no one could rage at me for voicing my opinion here btw I'd appreciate it

I can't do rage here anymore. The best I can come up with these days is a sort of bemused contempt.

Throught Mass Effect 1 and 2 (and most of ME3) all we learn about the Reapers' motives is that it is beyond our comprehension and they "impose order on the chaos", in the Leviathan DLC we get a bit more exposition on the Reapers but it is in the last 10-20 minutes of the game that the Reapers and their nonexistent motives are completely and utterly destroyed and the suppose immortal skyscraper heigh deities are reduced to being nothing more than puppets to a mad Space-Hitler (yes, I am quoting Smudboy there.)

Fixed. The ending didn't break anything because there was never anything there to break. "Beyond our comprehension" was just a placeholder to cover up Bio's frantic search for a way to explain the silly mess that ME1 and ME2 left for ME3.

The Reapers do end up looking pathetic, sure. I don't have a problem with that.

Now I come to the Control solution; why can't the Catalyst just make the Reapers stop? If all Shepard does when he becomes the new Catalyst is make them stop, then why can't the current Catalyst do the same?

Why would he ever do that? He doesn't think just stopping solves anything. He doesn't have any better ideas besides Synthesis, and he can't do that himself.

Who says he doesn't think it can solve anything? He's this supposed great, ancient intelligence and he can't figure out that the Reapers ARE the problem? Also, can he not see that Organics and Synthetics are getting along?

If he doesn't have any other good ideas beside Synthesis, why does he suggest Destroy or Control?

Bemused contempt? Because someone may have a differing opinion?

Because the Catalyst is not a critically thinking or truly self-aware living being. He is an AI that it totally stuck in his own logic and algorithmic process and is unable of accepting any information proving him wrong. He wasn't created for critical thinking. He does what he was created for (in an excessive, extreme form), nothing else.

[FlyingSquirrel]

R4ZOR GHO5T wrote...

Comrade Wakizashi wrote...

Of course the Reapers look pathetic in the end. Their motives are in fact pathetic. And I like it that way. It shows that even all-powerful destructive beings of doom can in fact be wrong.

So turning seeming unstoppable towering gods into floating graveyards doing what some Space Hitler says is a good reveal? What happened to each Reaper being an independent nation? Did none of them object to the Star Brat's stupid, incoherent solution?

My interpretation is that, to borrow a concept from Legion, their perspective is limited. They are capable of independent thought and action to some extent, but they are unable to reach a conclusion that is contrary to the Catalyst's assumptions.

[Comrade Wakizashi]

R4ZOR GHO5T wrote...

Comrade Wakizashi wrote...

R4ZOR GHO5T wrote...

Comrade Wakizashi wrote...

Of course the Reapers look pathetic in the end. Their motives are in fact pathetic. And I like it that way. It shows that even all-powerful destructive beings of doom can in fact be wrong.

So turning seeming unstoppable towering gods into floating graveyards doing what some Space Hitler says is a good reveal? What happened to each Reaper being an independent nation? Did none of them object to the Star Brat's stupid, incoherent solution?

The Reapers don't have a will of their own. I wouldn't even call them living or sapient beings. They are tools of destruction. The reason why this contradicts earlier assumptions about the Reapers is quite frankly because those assumptions (made by species who had never witnessed the Reapers or thoroughly examined them) were at least partially wrong.

Any assumptions I had about the Reapers had come from conclusions I'd drawn myself from what the Reapers said.

Anyone remember that game called Mass Effect where you had that intimidating chat with that immortal huge machine called Soveriegn? And no matter how much you told him you'd stop him even you weren't partly convinced? The menace in Soveriegn's voice, it's confidence, weird coming from just a machine doing what it's told that has no interest in war.

The fact that it's weird to us doesn't mean it's not possible or feasible. The Collectors are scary too, and they're nothing more than mutilated and horribly mutated Protheans and pawns of the Reapers. Thing is, no matter how scary or destructive the soldiers of the Catalyst are, in the end only the Catalyst is the one who has the power.
Compare it with for example the Lord of the Rings. No matter how strong, demonic or terrifiying the bad guys are, they're all in fact pathetic pawns of the lord of darkness. 

[R4ZOR GHO5T]

Comrade Wakizashi wrote...

R4ZOR GHO5T wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

R4ZOR GHO5T wrote...
If no one could rage at me for voicing my opinion here btw I'd appreciate it

I can't do rage here anymore. The best I can come up with these days is a sort of bemused contempt.

Throught Mass Effect 1 and 2 (and most of ME3) all we learn about the Reapers' motives is that it is beyond our comprehension and they "impose order on the chaos", in the Leviathan DLC we get a bit more exposition on the Reapers but it is in the last 10-20 minutes of the game that the Reapers and their nonexistent motives are completely and utterly destroyed and the suppose immortal skyscraper heigh deities are reduced to being nothing more than puppets to a mad Space-Hitler (yes, I am quoting Smudboy there.)

Fixed. The ending didn't break anything because there was never anything there to break. "Beyond our comprehension" was just a placeholder to cover up Bio's frantic search for a way to explain the silly mess that ME1 and ME2 left for ME3.

The Reapers do end up looking pathetic, sure. I don't have a problem with that.

Now I come to the Control solution; why can't the Catalyst just make the Reapers stop? If all Shepard does when he becomes the new Catalyst is make them stop, then why can't the current Catalyst do the same?

Why would he ever do that? He doesn't think just stopping solves anything. He doesn't have any better ideas besides Synthesis, and he can't do that himself.

Who says he doesn't think it can solve anything? He's this supposed great, ancient intelligence and he can't figure out that the Reapers ARE the problem? Also, can he not see that Organics and Synthetics are getting along?

If he doesn't have any other good ideas beside Synthesis, why does he suggest Destroy or Control?

Bemused contempt? Because someone may have a differing opinion?

Because the Catalyst is not a critically thinking or truly self-aware living being. He is an AI that it totally stuck in his own logic and algorithmic process and is unable of accepting any information proving him wrong. He wasn't created for critical thinking. He does what he was created for (in an excessive, extreme form), nothing else.

If we're going by the Catalyst's words (which I do very carefully), when Shepard asks if the Catalyst in an AI, it replies: "In as much as your just a mammal." This implies the Catalyst is WAAAAAAAY more than just an AI, this thing controls the Reapers for god's sake, it basically controls life, organics develop along the path the Catalyst desires.

[R4ZOR GHO5T]

Comrade Wakizashi wrote...

R4ZOR GHO5T wrote...

Comrade Wakizashi wrote...

R4ZOR GHO5T wrote...

Comrade Wakizashi wrote...

Of course the Reapers look pathetic in the end. Their motives are in fact pathetic. And I like it that way. It shows that even all-powerful destructive beings of doom can in fact be wrong.

So turning seeming unstoppable towering gods into floating graveyards doing what some Space Hitler says is a good reveal? What happened to each Reaper being an independent nation? Did none of them object to the Star Brat's stupid, incoherent solution?

The Reapers don't have a will of their own. I wouldn't even call them living or sapient beings. They are tools of destruction. The reason why this contradicts earlier assumptions about the Reapers is quite frankly because those assumptions (made by species who had never witnessed the Reapers or thoroughly examined them) were at least partially wrong.

Any assumptions I had about the Reapers had come from conclusions I'd drawn myself from what the Reapers said.

Anyone remember that game called Mass Effect where you had that intimidating chat with that immortal huge machine called Soveriegn? And no matter how much you told him you'd stop him even you weren't partly convinced? The menace in Soveriegn's voice, it's confidence, weird coming from just a machine doing what it's told that has no interest in war.

The fact that it's weird to us doesn't mean it's not possible or feasible. The Collectors are scary too, and they're nothing more than mutilated and horribly mutated Protheans and pawns of the Reapers. Thing is, no matter how scary or destructive the soldiers of the Catalyst are, in the end only the Catalyst is the one who has the power.
Compare it with for example the Lord of the Rings. No matter how strong, demonic or terrifiying the bad guys are, they're all in fact pathetic pawns of the lord of darkness. 

That is completely different, why do people always compare Mass Effect to LoTR btw? :L

The Catalyst did not exist until Mass Effect 3's writing, it's clearly something the writers pulled out of their ass at the last minute, it is literally a Deus Ex Machina device.

[Comrade Wakizashi]

FlyingSquirrel wrote...

R4ZOR GHO5T wrote...

Comrade Wakizashi wrote...

Of course the Reapers look pathetic in the end. Their motives are in fact pathetic. And I like it that way. It shows that even all-powerful destructive beings of doom can in fact be wrong.

So turning seeming unstoppable towering gods into floating graveyards doing what some Space Hitler says is a good reveal? What happened to each Reaper being an independent nation? Did none of them object to the Star Brat's stupid, incoherent solution?

My interpretation is that, to borrow a concept from Legion, their perspective is limited. They are capable of independent thought and action to some extent, but they are unable to reach a conclusion that is contrary to the Catalyst's assumptions.

Indeed. And that's a part that I love. Even the doom machines are fallible and clearly lacking in their motivations.
I loved the Mass Effect 3 ending scenes with the Catalyst. It goes so much further than the typical "evil guys want total domination, kill many people, good guy has to stop them." It transcends this into metaphysical things. The first time I played Mass Effect 3, the revelation sort of blew my mind. Which is good.

[Comrade Wakizashi]

R4ZOR GHO5T wrote...

Comrade Wakizashi wrote...

R4ZOR GHO5T wrote...

Comrade Wakizashi wrote...

R4ZOR GHO5T wrote...

Comrade Wakizashi wrote...

Of course the Reapers look pathetic in the end. Their motives are in fact pathetic. And I like it that way. It shows that even all-powerful destructive beings of doom can in fact be wrong.

So turning seeming unstoppable towering gods into floating graveyards doing what some Space Hitler says is a good reveal? What happened to each Reaper being an independent nation? Did none of them object to the Star Brat's stupid, incoherent solution?

The Reapers don't have a will of their own. I wouldn't even call them living or sapient beings. They are tools of destruction. The reason why this contradicts earlier assumptions about the Reapers is quite frankly because those assumptions (made by species who had never witnessed the Reapers or thoroughly examined them) were at least partially wrong.

Any assumptions I had about the Reapers had come from conclusions I'd drawn myself from what the Reapers said.

Anyone remember that game called Mass Effect where you had that intimidating chat with that immortal huge machine called Soveriegn? And no matter how much you told him you'd stop him even you weren't partly convinced? The menace in Soveriegn's voice, it's confidence, weird coming from just a machine doing what it's told that has no interest in war.

The fact that it's weird to us doesn't mean it's not possible or feasible. The Collectors are scary too, and they're nothing more than mutilated and horribly mutated Protheans and pawns of the Reapers. Thing is, no matter how scary or destructive the soldiers of the Catalyst are, in the end only the Catalyst is the one who has the power.
Compare it with for example the Lord of the Rings. No matter how strong, demonic or terrifiying the bad guys are, they're all in fact pathetic pawns of the lord of darkness. 

That is completely different, why do people always compare Mass Effect to LoTR btw? :L

The Catalyst did not exist until Mass Effect 3's writing, it's clearly something the writers pulled out of their ass at the last minute, it is literally a Deus Ex Machina device.

That's what you say, and there is no way we can know that for sure. Even if it is, I think it's an ingenious way to explain the reason behind the Reapers. Much better than just "Reaper evil, reaper want domination".

[Pressedcat]

I think the Reapers were correct up to a certain point. There was (and continued to be) a threat that an AI might be created that might decide to wipe out all organics and eventually succeed in that goal. It was never guaranteed, but the potential was there. The Reapers solution might even have worked as a temporary fix to this danger, but in the long run I don't think that it was sustainable. The initial plan was never a solution, simply a way to postpone the threat for another cycle. There was always the potential for something to go wrong, and eventually it did (in the form of Shepard and the Crucible). It seems like the Intelligence was locked into its solution, and thus offered Shepard the final choice.

You'll notice that 'might' appeared quite heavily in my post, and therein lies the problem: it was never an absolute threat, but rather a potential one. I accepted that in the ME universe it was a significant enough risk that it might be reasonable for a flawed AI to seek out a solution. Dismiss the initial premise however, and the entire reasoning behind the Intelligence/Reapers' actions become nonsensical.

[R4ZOR GHO5T]

Comrade Wakizashi wrote...

R4ZOR GHO5T wrote...

Comrade Wakizashi wrote...

R4ZOR GHO5T wrote...

Comrade Wakizashi wrote...

R4ZOR GHO5T wrote...

Comrade Wakizashi wrote...

Of course the Reapers look pathetic in the end. Their motives are in fact pathetic. And I like it that way. It shows that even all-powerful destructive beings of doom can in fact be wrong.

So turning seeming unstoppable towering gods into floating graveyards doing what some Space Hitler says is a good reveal? What happened to each Reaper being an independent nation? Did none of them object to the Star Brat's stupid, incoherent solution?

The Reapers don't have a will of their own. I wouldn't even call them living or sapient beings. They are tools of destruction. The reason why this contradicts earlier assumptions about the Reapers is quite frankly because those assumptions (made by species who had never witnessed the Reapers or thoroughly examined them) were at least partially wrong.

Any assumptions I had about the Reapers had come from conclusions I'd drawn myself from what the Reapers said.

Anyone remember that game called Mass Effect where you had that intimidating chat with that immortal huge machine called Soveriegn? And no matter how much you told him you'd stop him even you weren't partly convinced? The menace in Soveriegn's voice, it's confidence, weird coming from just a machine doing what it's told that has no interest in war.

The fact that it's weird to us doesn't mean it's not possible or feasible. The Collectors are scary too, and they're nothing more than mutilated and horribly mutated Protheans and pawns of the Reapers. Thing is, no matter how scary or destructive the soldiers of the Catalyst are, in the end only the Catalyst is the one who has the power.
Compare it with for example the Lord of the Rings. No matter how strong, demonic or terrifiying the bad guys are, they're all in fact pathetic pawns of the lord of darkness. 

That is completely different, why do people always compare Mass Effect to LoTR btw? :L

The Catalyst did not exist until Mass Effect 3's writing, it's clearly something the writers pulled out of their ass at the last minute, it is literally a Deus Ex Machina device.

That's what you say, and there is no way we can know that for sure. Even if it is, I think it's an ingenious way to explain the reason behind the Reapers. Much better than just "Reaper evil, reaper want domination".

Oh no, I'm not saying the Reapers' ultimate reveal should of been "Reaper evil, reaper want domination", I wanted something logical.

[Comrade Wakizashi]

R4ZOR GHO5T wrote...

Comrade Wakizashi wrote...

R4ZOR GHO5T wrote...

Comrade Wakizashi wrote...

R4ZOR GHO5T wrote...

Comrade Wakizashi wrote...

R4ZOR GHO5T wrote...

Comrade Wakizashi wrote...

Of course the Reapers look pathetic in the end. Their motives are in fact pathetic. And I like it that way. It shows that even all-powerful destructive beings of doom can in fact be wrong.

So turning seeming unstoppable towering gods into floating graveyards doing what some Space Hitler says is a good reveal? What happened to each Reaper being an independent nation? Did none of them object to the Star Brat's stupid, incoherent solution?

The Reapers don't have a will of their own. I wouldn't even call them living or sapient beings. They are tools of destruction. The reason why this contradicts earlier assumptions about the Reapers is quite frankly because those assumptions (made by species who had never witnessed the Reapers or thoroughly examined them) were at least partially wrong.

Any assumptions I had about the Reapers had come from conclusions I'd drawn myself from what the Reapers said.

Anyone remember that game called Mass Effect where you had that intimidating chat with that immortal huge machine called Soveriegn? And no matter how much you told him you'd stop him even you weren't partly convinced? The menace in Soveriegn's voice, it's confidence, weird coming from just a machine doing what it's told that has no interest in war.

The fact that it's weird to us doesn't mean it's not possible or feasible. The Collectors are scary too, and they're nothing more than mutilated and horribly mutated Protheans and pawns of the Reapers. Thing is, no matter how scary or destructive the soldiers of the Catalyst are, in the end only the Catalyst is the one who has the power.
Compare it with for example the Lord of the Rings. No matter how strong, demonic or terrifiying the bad guys are, they're all in fact pathetic pawns of the lord of darkness. 

That is completely different, why do people always compare Mass Effect to LoTR btw? :L

The Catalyst did not exist until Mass Effect 3's writing, it's clearly something the writers pulled out of their ass at the last minute, it is literally a Deus Ex Machina device.

That's what you say, and there is no way we can know that for sure. Even if it is, I think it's an ingenious way to explain the reason behind the Reapers. Much better than just "Reaper evil, reaper want domination".

Oh no, I'm not saying the Reapers' ultimate reveal should of been "Reaper evil, reaper want domination", I wanted something logical.

I think the beauty of the ending is exactly that they are logical according to their own rationale. But according to that of any living creature.

[R4ZOR GHO5T]

Comrade Wakizashi wrote...

R4ZOR GHO5T wrote...

Comrade Wakizashi wrote...

R4ZOR GHO5T wrote...

Comrade Wakizashi wrote...

R4ZOR GHO5T wrote...

Comrade Wakizashi wrote...

R4ZOR GHO5T wrote...

Comrade Wakizashi wrote...

Of course the Reapers look pathetic in the end. Their motives are in fact pathetic. And I like it that way. It shows that even all-powerful destructive beings of doom can in fact be wrong.

So turning seeming unstoppable towering gods into floating graveyards doing what some Space Hitler says is a good reveal? What happened to each Reaper being an independent nation? Did none of them object to the Star Brat's stupid, incoherent solution?

The Reapers don't have a will of their own. I wouldn't even call them living or sapient beings. They are tools of destruction. The reason why this contradicts earlier assumptions about the Reapers is quite frankly because those assumptions (made by species who had never witnessed the Reapers or thoroughly examined them) were at least partially wrong.

Any assumptions I had about the Reapers had come from conclusions I'd drawn myself from what the Reapers said.

Anyone remember that game called Mass Effect where you had that intimidating chat with that immortal huge machine called Soveriegn? And no matter how much you told him you'd stop him even you weren't partly convinced? The menace in Soveriegn's voice, it's confidence, weird coming from just a machine doing what it's told that has no interest in war.

The fact that it's weird to us doesn't mean it's not possible or feasible. The Collectors are scary too, and they're nothing more than mutilated and horribly mutated Protheans and pawns of the Reapers. Thing is, no matter how scary or destructive the soldiers of the Catalyst are, in the end only the Catalyst is the one who has the power.
Compare it with for example the Lord of the Rings. No matter how strong, demonic or terrifiying the bad guys are, they're all in fact pathetic pawns of the lord of darkness. 

That is completely different, why do people always compare Mass Effect to LoTR btw? :L

The Catalyst did not exist until Mass Effect 3's writing, it's clearly something the writers pulled out of their ass at the last minute, it is literally a Deus Ex Machina device.

That's what you say, and there is no way we can know that for sure. Even if it is, I think it's an ingenious way to explain the reason behind the Reapers. Much better than just "Reaper evil, reaper want domination".

Oh no, I'm not saying the Reapers' ultimate reveal should of been "Reaper evil, reaper want domination", I wanted something logical.

I think the beauty of the ending is exactly that they are logical according to their own rationale. But according to that of any living creature.

Did you really use the word "beautiful" in describing Mass Effect 3's ending?

Where is the logic in destroying organics so synthetics don't destroy organics when there's organics and synthetics fighting TOGETHER against the Reapers right outside??

[Comrade Wakizashi]

As I said, the logic of the Catalyst is flawed. But that's the entire thing. His logic is perfectly rational in its own right, but it is flawed when applied to actual events. But the Catalyst itself is unable to see that.
You can even say that in the game. "Your logic is flawed" is one the replies you can give the Catalyst.
So it's not like BioWare didn't think it through.