44 réponses à ce sujet

[Iakus]

 
Shepard faces the Catalyst and is given The Choice.

But there's a fourth option:

Destroy the Reapers.  Shepard, the geth and EDI will live.

But the relays, all of them, are permanently destroyed.

They do not nova and destroy entire solar systems llike in Arrival.  But Sword and Hammer are stuck in the Sol system unless they want to fly home with conventional ftl.  

Building new relays may be possible, but who knows how long it will take.  Years, decades, maybe centuries.  

Would you take that choice?  Why or why not?

Edit, for the purpose of this discussion, let's assume it would only take a few years to repair the relays at most (at least in the more technologically developed systems) , but a century or more to rebuild them from scratch.  Rebuilding the relays would mean the galaxy gets at least a taste of a "galactic dark age"

Modifié par iakus, 13 janvier 2014 - 06:06 .

[Ruadh]

Still pick destroy. Cause Geth r dickz.

Seriously though, I assume most people would pick this because it's the ****ing I win choice. Play ME1, it's already been established that you can build your own relays. Protheans did it.

[Iakus]

Well keep in mind that while the relays could potentially be rebuilt, no one in the current cycle knows how.

That's the big risk to take. How long would systems be cut off from each other? Would you be willing to take that risk ?

[AlexMBrennan]

Who cares about Sword and Hammer? They don't matter in the grand scheme of things; e.g. destroying the relays would doom planets reliant on food imports from colonies to starvation so the choice may well come down to "Do we kill X million geth today, or do we doom Y million organics to death over the next few months".
If all things are equal I'd stick with "classic" destroy whilst the geths/EDI's "humanity" is speculative and "real" people thus take priority. Sorry, I never bought the "geth are alive" idea.

[David7204]

Tell me, Alex, what would you have thought if AI was established as alive, period? If it was just taken for granted in the Mass Effect universe that AIs were as 'alive' as any organic. Never an issue brought up.

Would you still not 'buy' that idea?

[AlanC9]

What's the baseline estimate for relay repair time in Original Flavor Destroy? My original estimate was long enough that I'm not a great candidate for this hypothetical, but that might be just a hangover from playing the pre-EC ending.

[Dubozz]

It's better for relays to go super nova mode. Mass Effect should be buried and forgotten.
/thread

Modifié par Dubozz, 12 janvier 2014 - 10:50 .

[CroGamer002]

I'd take the 4th option.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

David7204 wrote...

Tell me, Alex, what would you have thought if AI was established as alive, period? If it was just taken for granted in the Mass Effect universe that AIs were as 'alive' as any organic. Never an issue brought up.

Would you still not 'buy' that idea?

You're setting him up for an argument that is based around a notional creation of your own and telling him to hold his views in a universe that they're valid in and transfer them to a universe where they aren't.

Why would he have any reason to answer you, especially since your scenario isn't real and only designed as catalyst to begin insulting him with?

[AlanC9]

AlexMBrennan wrote...

Who cares about Sword and Hammer? They don't matter in the grand scheme of things; e.g. destroying the relays would doom planets reliant on food imports from colonies to starvation so the choice may well come down to "Do we kill X million geth today, or do we doom Y million organics to death over the next few months".

Wait a minute.... that's assuming a very fast time to repair the relays. My impression is that any world that can't get food from the local cluster is going to starve in any ME3 ending.

[JamesFaith]

AlanC9 wrote...

AlexMBrennan wrote...

Who cares about Sword and Hammer? They don't matter in the grand scheme of things; e.g. destroying the relays would doom planets reliant on food imports from colonies to starvation so the choice may well come down to "Do we kill X million geth today, or do we doom Y million organics to death over the next few months".

Wait a minute.... that's assuming a very fast time to repair the relays. My impression is that any world that can't get food from the local cluster is going to starve in any ME3 ending.

Yeap, that's true.

And every system which survived months or few years of supossed starving during repairs of ME relays system in three original ending should be self-sufficient enough to survive even with complete destruction of relays.

[BaladasDemnevanni]

Personally, I always loved the idea of the Relays being destroyed. While it has some negatives, it signified a galaxy free of the Reapers and their influence.

[Nightwriter]

Would totally pick it. Would've complained less about my choices, too.

[teh DRUMPf!!]

Trick question! You choose far superior Sync or Control instead =D


On-topic... I don't believe the geth or other AI that were lost will be brought back, for a host of reasons, while the 'relays almost certainly will -- in a galactic effort. So I'd take the hypothetical fourth choice in that I would eventually have both things back. Not that AI are more important than the 'relays, mind you, but I'll sacrifice them for a while if it means I can get everything later.

Also, I don't think the fleets being stranded is that big a deal, either, considering the fact that millions died before they get there. I think there's plenty of room for them across the galaxy.

Modifié par HYR 2.0, 13 janvier 2014 - 12:05 .

[Almostfaceman]

iakus wrote...

 
Shepard faces the Catalyst and is given The Choice.

But there's a fourth option:

Destroy the Reapers.  Shepard, the geth and EDI will live.

But the relays, all of them, are permanently destroyed.

They do not nova and destroy entire solar systems llike in Arrival.  But Sword and Hammer are stuck in the Sol system unless they want to fly home with conventional ftl.  

Building new relays may be possible, but who knows how long it will take.  Years, decades, maybe centuries.  

Would you take that choice?  Why or why not?

The military forces are already ready to sacrifice to save the rest of the galaxy, so yeah, I'd take that fourth option. Then I'd lean on the industriousness of the geth (and EDI) to try and save the rest of the fleet that's left over. 

Eh, but lordy take that choice out of the Starbrat's hands and make it more organic to the narrative. 

[Nightwriter]

I like the idea of relay destruction being the major sacrifice in that option. It seems like it fits Destroy, which is often described as a rejection of Reaper influence and control -- and the relays were built by the Reapers. Having our crutches knocked out from under us so that we're forced to build our own relays for the first time feels like it would be in keeping with the spirit of the choice.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

BaladasDemnevanni wrote...

Personally, I always loved the idea of the Relays being destroyed. While it has some negatives, it signified a galaxy free of the Reapers and their influence.

And, since they're technologically not capable of rapid long-distance FTL, this significantly fractures the galaxy, isolating entire star-systems from each other.

I'd prefer if High EMS Destroy caused a... reboot of the relays, temporarily putting them out of action.

I also had an idea of the Crucible using the relays to boost an energy signal across the galaxy that basically serves as a deathswitch or EMP for the Reapers (which is basically what it already does), except the relays aren't all destroyed: each relay amplifies the signal, meaning that the ones that recieve the signal first aren't damaged, but as the signal is increasingly boosted, damage occurs to each successive relay (mostly software), until it reaches far enough that the signal starts causing physical damage to some of the most far flung relays. Or having it be an EMP for the Primarily relays, and more damaging for the secondary relays.

[Chashan]

HYR 2.0 wrote...

Trick question! You choose far superior Sync or Control instead =D

I'd rather take the Starforge or enslave the Water Dragon, kknpthx.


Anyhow, I too opine that what iakus suggests should have been the Cost of Red, when it comes down to it. 'writer puts it well as to why:

Nightwriter wrote...
I like the idea of relay destruction being the major sacrifice in that option. It seems like it fits Destroy, which is often described as a rejection of Reaper influence and control -- and the relays were built by the Reapers. Having our crutches knocked out from under us so that we're forced to build our own relays for the first time feels like it would be in keeping with the spirit of the choice.

It would still leave the following to be taken into account, at any rate:

Almostfaceman wrote...

Eh, but lordy take that choice out of the Starbrat's hands and make it more organic to the narrative.

[DeinonSlayer]

I suspect I'd have a lot more difficulty with this decision if I thought the Geth were worth saving to begin with, or that there were more AI at stake. As-is, vanilla Destroy seems to exclusively target Reaper tech, so I have no cause to believe any other synthetic entities (provided any others exist) are in the crosshares.

No, OP. I'd stick with vanilla Destroy. My main objection to it pre-EC was the destruction of the relay network and all it implied, not the fate of EDI and the Geth. Given the retcon/softening/whatever regarding what happens to the relays in the EC, I'm good with it.

[Kenshen]

BaladasDemnevanni wrote...

Personally, I always loved the idea of the Relays being destroyed. While it has some negatives, it signified a galaxy free of the Reapers and their influence.

This was one of the few things I liked with the orginal destroy so I absolutely pick the 4th option.  Actually since I don't care for EDI and the geth have proven they can not be trusted I probably stick with the destroy that kills off edi and the geth.  Is a tough call for me cause I really do like the idea of the mass relays being put out of service for good.

[Iakus]

AlanC9 wrote...

What's the baseline estimate for relay repair time in Original Flavor Destroy? My original estimate was long enough that I'm not a great candidate for this hypothetical, but that might be just a hangover from playing the pre-EC ending.

There is no real estimate given, but all the current endings imply it will not take long.  Itis simply a repair job, after all.

What I'm asking is, if the galaxy has to start from scratch, and it will take many tears, at least, to get a new relay network up and running again, would it be worth it to destroy the Reapers as a Fourth Alternative?

For the purpose of this exercise, let's say it will take at least a century to get a functional network operational.

[dreamgazer]

I'd have one Shepard that would do it, I think.

Philosophically, though, I'd still choose Destroy.

[JamesFaith]

iakus wrote...

There is no real estimate given, but all the current endings imply it will not take long.  Itis simply a repair job, after all.

What I'm asking is, if the galaxy has to start from scratch, and it will take many tears, at least, to get a new relay network up and running again, would it be worth it to destroy the Reapers as a Fourth Alternative?

For the purpose of this exercise, let's say it will take at least a century to get a functional network operational.

If you want your exercise work you have to add few other datas - believable estimate of repairs in other endings and how big part of relay network have to be rebuilt.

Don't forget during it that planets with enough technical capacities to repair relay would be also less threaten by their absence (f.e. starving), when most endangered worlds would be most probably unable to repair their own and have to wait for repair teams in standard FTL ships in both versions of endings.

Modifié par JamesFaith, 13 janvier 2014 - 12:54 .

[MassivelyEffective0730]

I consider the existence of the Relays (and Galactic Civilization) a greater asset than the lives of the Geth or EDI. Shepard survives Destroy already. I wouldn't take the 4th option.

[Br3admax]

Would still pick Destroy. This question assumes that I care more about keeping the geth alive than I do about making humanity stronger and live more comfortably. I don't.