44 réponses à ce sujet

[Iakus]

JamesFaith wrote...

If you want your exercise work you have to add few other datas - believable estimate of repairs in other endings and how big part of relay network have to be rebuilt.

Don't forget during it that planets with enough techncal capacities to repair relay would be also less threaten by their absence (f.e. starving), when most endangered worlds would be most probably unable to repair their ownones and have to wait for repair teams in standard FTL ships in both versions of endings.

Okay.

We'll assume that, in the High EMS version of the other endings at leasy, the relays will be for the most part repaired in a span of months, or single-digit years at the most.  It will be faster in Control/Synthesis and slower in Destroy


And yes, different planets have different levels of technological capability.  Some worlds will likely be cut off for generations.  The galactic political, economic, and military faces are likely to radically change as a result.  Some colonies may flourish on their own and become powers in their own right.  Others will likely have to be abandoned or die out.

[JamesFaith]

iakus wrote...


We'll assume that, in the High EMS version of the other endings at leasy, the relays will be for the most part repaired in a span of months, or single-digit years at the most.  It will be faster in Control/Synthesis and slower in Destroy

Span of months should works for Control/Synthesis where we have Reapers, educated workers with knowledges about relay structure and functions, but definitely not in Destroy, even in highets one.


Industrial centres on Earth and other homeworlds except Surkesh are destroyed, same as infractructure. All civilian and commercial spaceships are gone, used during evacuations, so you would have to built new ones or repurposed military spaceships to repair vesells. Except Turians and their reserve planets, systems had depleted major mineral sources (remember scanning of Solar system in ME2) especially eezo deposits necessary for relay core. And we have to find out first how and what in relay need to be repaired before start.

And before someone even touch damaged relay they have to  start with restoration of central worlds and taking care about decimated civilians.

It would take years, maybe even whole decade, even for most advanced planets.

[MrMrPendragon]

They know how to activate relays right? Fixing a relay can't be too far behind from that.

But I'd stick with Destroy. It would be faster to just rebuild EDI from scratch.

[JamesFaith]

ArcherTactlenecks wrote...

They know how to activate relays right? Fixing a relay can't be too far behind from that.

Well I would compare it with reopening of conservated nuclear plant and reconstruct of bombed nuclear plant. For activating you just need to "find out "right sequences of pushing buttons"  and relays were built for relatively easy activeting and using by different civilisation, it was their major purpose.

Modifié par JamesFaith, 13 janvier 2014 - 01:52 .

[MrMrPendragon]

JamesFaith wrote...

ArcherTactlenecks wrote...

They know how to activate relays right? Fixing a relay can't be too far behind from that.

Well I would compare it with reopening of conservated nuclear plant and reconstruct of bombed nuclear plant. For activating you just need to "find out "right sequences of pushing buttons"  and relays were built for relatively easy activeting and using by different civilisation, it was their major purpose.

Actually I just remembered they would have to actually to travel to each of the relays to rebuild them, which would need them to use FTL, which isn't that great of a solution.

So yeah, I won't choose this ending. But don't the relays get wrecked anyway - no matter what ending you choose?

Modifié par ArcherTactlenecks, 13 janvier 2014 - 02:00 .

[JamesFaith]

ArcherTactlenecks wrote...

Actually I just remembered they would have to actually to travel to each of the relays to rebuild them, which would need them to use FTL, which isn't that great of a solution.

So yeah, I won't choose this ending. But don't the relays get wrecked anyway - no matter what ending you choose?

Yes but premise of this thread is that hypothetical new ending would offer surviving of Geth and EDI traded for disabled network for much longer era, Iakus already specified it as one century.

I just don't agreed with him about time span of repairs in Destroy, when we haven't Reapers and their know-how.

Modifié par JamesFaith, 13 janvier 2014 - 02:07 .

[Almostfaceman]

JamesFaith wrote...

Yes but premise of this thread is that hypothetical new ending would offer surviving of Geth and EDI traded for disabled network for much longer era, Iakus already specified it as one century.

I just don't agreed with him about time span of repairs in Destroy, when we haven't Reapers and their know-how.

He modified that time span a little later in the thread for high EMS, and didn't really mention a century in the OP - which I guess still wouldn't have changed my answer. I would have a hard time believing it would take a century, considering I'd have the Geth on my side to have data/tirelessly rebuild/tirelessly research... maybe I'm over-estimating them but this is the Reaper-enhanced Geth we're considering.

[MattFini]

I would choose that option to end the reaper influence completely. Although since the geth upgraded themselves with reaper code, they gotta die too.

My Shep was ruthless and loved it.

[MayonnaiseNipple]

No point in picking that option, I'd just wait for modders to fix it, so instead of being destroyed, the relays would shoot rainbows and farts.

[NeonFlux117]

Nope. We need the relays. Cause we must "evolve along the paths we desire". With that being said, I will always shoot the tube. Saving EDI and the geth... Not really, EDI is annoying. And Legion already sacrificed himself back on Rannoch. So.... I'm all good with it. I do regret the Geth not surviving. But if it's choosing The Geth vs. everything and everybody being free. And. AND, destroying the Reapers once and for all. I think it's necessary.

High ems destroy is fine as is. For a variety of reasons....

The best being Super Space Squiddy killing machines are finally dead and gone and sent back to hell.

Dead Reapers.

It's a good thing.

[Cainhurst Crow]

Sorry. Still picking control, because over-lording the reapers as a reincarnated cyber ghost sounds pretty cool.

[Iakus]

Almostfaceman wrote...

JamesFaith wrote...

Yes but premise of this thread is that hypothetical new ending would offer surviving of Geth and EDI traded for disabled network for much longer era, Iakus already specified it as one century.

I just don't agreed with him about time span of repairs in Destroy, when we haven't Reapers and their know-how.

He modified that time span a little later in the thread for high EMS, and didn't really mention a century in the OP - which I guess still wouldn't have changed my answer. I would have a hard time believing it would take a century, considering I'd have the Geth on my side to have data/tirelessly rebuild/tirelessly research... maybe I'm over-estimating them but this is the Reaper-enhanced Geth we're considering.

Well, I gave the time span because more details were requested.  But the upshot is to see if people would be willing to spare the geth (or AIs in general) if it meant the loss of the relay network the galaxy has grown dependant on.

I honestly have no idea if it would take a century, or more, or less to build a new network, or if it would take less than a decade to repair it.  I just want to convey that it would take far longer to rebuild than repair.  A century sounded like a good round number, close to a human lifetime in the Mass Effect galaxy.

[AlanC9]

Almostfaceman wrote...
He modified that time span a little later in the thread for high EMS, and didn't really mention a century in the OP - which I guess still wouldn't have changed my answer. I would have a hard time believing it would take a century, considering I'd have the Geth on my side to have data/tirelessly rebuild/tirelessly research... maybe I'm over-estimating them but this is the Reaper-enhanced Geth we're considering.

I'm not sure why the geth would be so special.

Anyway, there are two things involved in repairing the relays. Step 1 is knowing how the damn things work. Once you've done that, then you can get down to repairing stuff. There's no conceptual problem with getting to the local secondary relays from wherever your base is, since you can get to their systems with standard FTL. Primary relays are another thing altogether. They're point-to-point, like a QEC. If they're deployed like QECs too -- you have to physically transfer something to the destination point --- and if deactivation ruins that connection, then repairing a primary relay connection would take quite a few years since you'd need to cross a lot of uncharted space without any clear idea of where to scoop fuel or dump drive charge. (Unless the primary relay could be used while you're transporting it, in which case you could send fuel and supplies through the relay... the Conduit was small enough to fit in a starship, come to think of it, and it certainly has the range of a primary)

So having it take a century or two to get most of the network back is hardly all that far-fetched. Of course, this depends on how the devs want the tech to work -- if they want everything to be up and running  in six months, they could do that too. Which I believe is the point of the hypothetical.

Modifié par AlanC9, 13 janvier 2014 - 06:27 .

[Display Name Owner]

Probably not, and the honest reason is that I'm not feeling any of this Geth love or EDI like.

[Iakus]

AlanC9 wrote...

Almostfaceman wrote...
He modified that time span a little later in the thread for high EMS, and didn't really mention a century in the OP - which I guess still wouldn't have changed my answer. I would have a hard time believing it would take a century, considering I'd have the Geth on my side to have data/tirelessly rebuild/tirelessly research... maybe I'm over-estimating them but this is the Reaper-enhanced Geth we're considering.

I'm not sure why the geth would be so special.

Anyway, there are two things involved in repairing the relays. Step 1 is knowing how the damn things work. Once you've done that, then you can get down to repairing stuff. There's no conceptual problem with getting to the local secondary relays from wherever your base is, since you can get to their systems with standard FTL. Primary relays are another thing altogether. They're point-to-point, like a QEC. If they're deployed like QECs too -- you have to physically transfer something to the destination point --- and if deactivation ruins that connection, then repairing a primary relay connection would take quite a few years since you'd need to cross a lot of uncharted space without any clear idea of where to scoop fuel or dump drive charge. (Unless the primary relay could be used while you're transporting it, in which case you could send fuel and supplies through the relay... the Conduit was small enough to fit in a starship, come to think of it, and it certainly has the range of a primary)

So having it take a century or two to get most of the network back is hardly all that far-fetched. Of course, this depends on how the devs want the tech to work -- if they want everything to be up and running  in six months, they could do that too. Which I believe is the point of the hypothetical.

To be fair, though, since the Rachni Wars they have been very careful not to open primary relays intil they know where both ends are (that's what started the First Contact War, the turians caught the humans activating every dormant relay they could find) so it stands to reason that there are charted routes to most if not all those destinations.

Time and distance would still be a factor though.

[Dean_the_Young]

Assuming this hypothetical is supposed to be raised on its own merits rather than as a take-that to the canon endings, it might be beneficial to expand it. Instead of throwing in a fourth option that many see as ideal over the cost/benefit tradeoffs of all the other endings, why not recast those as well?

So option 1 is 'destroy all Reaper tech'. That includes Reapers and Relays and all that jazz. EDI survives, but maybe takes a hit to her functionality without the Reaper tech. Pro's are the end of the Reapers, and the end of galactic travel and civilization. It would probably help the balance of choices if the disruption were for an extended period of time: can't rebuild/repair the old relays, and so making new ones from scratch is a task of an Asari lifetime.

So, what's it going to be balanced against? Control, as it is? Synthesis? A negotiated ceasefire, in which the Reapers stand down but don't disappear, leaving everyone uncertain about the future?

[sevalaricgirl]

I would destroy the reapers every time. Synthetics are machines. I also don't buy that Geth are more than just artificial intelligence in a mechanized body.

[Iakus]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Assuming this hypothetical is supposed to be raised on its own merits rather than as a take-that to the canon endings, it might be beneficial to expand it. Instead of throwing in a fourth option that many see as ideal over the cost/benefit tradeoffs of all the other endings, why not recast those as well?

So option 1 is 'destroy all Reaper tech'. That includes Reapers and Relays and all that jazz. EDI survives, but maybe takes a hit to her functionality without the Reaper tech. Pro's are the end of the Reapers, and the end of galactic travel and civilization. It would probably help the balance of choices if the disruption were for an extended period of time: can't rebuild/repair the old relays, and so making new ones from scratch is a task of an Asari lifetime.

So, what's it going to be balanced against? Control, as it is? Synthesis? A negotiated ceasefire, in which the Reapers stand down but don't disappear, leaving everyone uncertain about the future?

The balance is the relays.  All the endings we get demand some kind of sacrifice that changes the face of the galaxy.  I am curious to see how sacrificing the relay network stands up against the "canon" endings

[BronzTrooper]

Regular destroy because relays are still there and Hammer is won't be stuck on Earth for years (remember, the turians and quarians are dextros so they can't have any levo food, which is what will be on Earth). Screw the geth and EDI. I'm not going to let the turians and quarians starve to death on Earth.