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Synthesis is Paragon Shepards canon ending.


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#1
DoYouReadThis

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"Organics seek perfection through technology. Synthetics seek perfection through understanding."

Edit-note: Before you say I should only consider pre-ending knowledge for what you can decide, please see my retort to that here http://social.biowar...776811#17776987 - because that choice is 10x simpler and still reverts to Synthesis for Paragon Shepard.

Let's compare and explain, before all of you start whining at me because Shepard is dead, and you can't let go, or because you don't understand/approve of "The Extended Cut".

The Intelligence was created to end the conflict between organic and synthetic life, it failed over and over - until it found "the reaper solution".

As stated by The Intelligence itself, it was created "by ones [Leviathans] who recognized that conflict would always arise between synthetics and organics. I [The Intelligence] was first created to oversee the relations between synthetic and organic life... to establish a connection. But our efforts always ended in conflict, so a new solution was required.", to which Shepard correctly asks, "The Reapers?".

I have on countless occassions seen people consider this a plothole, that The Intelligence overthrew its own creators, as it was made to avoid conflict between organics and synthetics, however - there was no conflict between them, it simply served the purpose it was created for, in a way which was an oversight on the Leviathans' part.

The reapers were inherently not intent on war or genocide, but rather the preservation of all organic and synthetic life (before their own self-destruction), their culture, and their knowledge - this is despite of how morbid their methods are. The Geth were also focused on preservation, although not of everything, but rather.. themselves - and they would fight for it.

Now let's discuss the endings and the outcomes of them:

The destroy ending:

First I want to mention a problem I have with a lot of people:
The cutscene for this shows Anderson, who has been shown as nothing but a warrior throughout the entire series, Anderson is not the epitome of "good", his choices do not define Shepard's. As the Illusive Man said (despite how evil he is), Anderson is "an old soldier, stuck in his ways", he could never accept his position on the council, nor did he want to deal with the political dilemmas - he felt at home on the battlefield - whereas we see Shepard being praised as both an esteemed soldier and diplomat/politician for his/her various feats throughout the galaxy.

So what does the destroy ending detail?
  • Shepard lives, but only by going against everything he/she stood for (as Paragon Shepard). Shepard helped the Geth become "good guys", only to destroy them along with all other synthetic life - when he/she could choose Synthesis to save all synthetic life, and give the Reapers the same chance that he/she gave the Geth. This means Paragon Shepard would never have chosen this way, unless he/she breaks character from all of his previous actions.
  • The Reapers, the Geth, EDI and all other synthetic life died, in addition to millions (if not billions) of organic beings across the universe (as it killed organics with synthetic implants as well) - Synthetics can and will be rebuilt. Organics will still seek to imrpove their own existence, and as The Intelligence correctly said, it will be done through synthetics. Whether this is achieved through implants (Please see: the Zha'Til), or external workforces such as the Geth, it will eventually lead to their own demise.
  • Paragon Shepard said on a number of occassions that he/she would never sacrifice X billion people to save Y billion people, and as he/she values Synthetic life on the same level as Organic life... That would never be an option. That is however exactly what this ending does.
  • Cerberus lives. Cerberus is an idea, not just an organization, not a man. Cerberus still has indoctrination technology and will undoubtedly continue working on it, perfecting it, (ab)using it. Paragon Shepard would possibly live to see it, or even fight it.
There is nothing long-term good about this ending. It doesn't "revert things back to how they were" - as a lot of people claim, the war still happened, billions of people across the galaxy still died, homeworlds are still destroyed, frankly this statement could used for all the endings, as the war ends and rebuilding starts on all of them. The war was won, but the problem persists - "The Reapers will be destroyed, but the peace won't last, the chaos will come back" (Paraphrasing The Intelligence).



The control ending:

The cutscene for this choice shows The Illusive Man - of course Paragon Shepard is nothing like him, and this choice is not necessarily evil at all. Paragon Shepard giving his/her life to guide The Reapers, is a lot like Legion giving his to "guide" the Geth to a state of peace.

A few dilemmas arise from this ending, as a Paragon Shepard. Let's look at the facts:
  • Shepard lives on through the Reapers, despite giving up his/her body to do so. All current Organic and Synthetic life is preserved.
  • The Reapers now serve as the Galaxy's guardians - what happens when someone eventually stands up to the reapers, be it Cerberus or any other "evil" organization - when a reaper dies, it can never be rebuilt. Paragon Shepard would NEVER build new reapers due to the implication of building new ones, and he/she would never replenish his/her reaper armies. So even if only a few reaper deaths are witnessed every one million years (big number), their numbers would eventually dwindle and fade to the point where they would be defeated. Just imagine what kind of weapons that rogue organizations can develop to combat the reapers in a million years? This would require either a new form of reaper which then could fall outside of the control, or going back to indoctrinate organics.
This is a half-assed solution to the problem, that cannot last as Paragon Shepard. I understand why people may consider this a Paragon solution, but it is flawed because people will rebel against them, there are always bad people.

The synthesis ending:

"Organics seek perfection through technology. Synthetics seek perfection through understanding. Organics will be perfected by integrating fully with synthetic technology. Synthetics, in turn, will finally have full understanding of organics. It is the ideal solution. Now that we know it is possible, it is inevitable we will reach synthesis."

I have seen a lot of people argue against this ending because The Intelligence said that they "have tried a simillar solution in the past. But it has always failed". This argument is completely and incredibly invalid and flawed, there is absolutely no bad writing in this either, as the Intelligence explains why it failed, in response to Shepard asking "why?". The Intelligence explains that it's "because the organics were not ready. It is not something that can be... forced.", and then saying "You are ready. And you may choose it." - There is nothing to argue with, unless we go outside Mass Effect story - The Intelligence knows what it's talking about.

Another concern I've seen was that everyone became "husks" - everyone is still the same, they have their own identities, they are just partly synthetic, they didn't change otherwise. Literally nothing esle changes. The Intelligence said so itself, they integrated fully with synthetic technology, just like synthetics learned to understand organics,  they did not change otherwise, unlike the Zha who implanted themselves with symbiotic AIs, which eventually took control of their bodies, and entire race.

I saw someone perpetuate that there is no more individualism in this ending, I don't understand this notion - people did not become omnipotent from synthesis, they merely got more knowledge shared with them, Reaper tech, and that of past civilizations, to be specific (Mass Relays and the like too). It did not change people's general personality either.

So what happens with the synthesis ending:
  • Shepard gives his life for galaxy-wide peace - something he/she has often implied he/she would do in a heartbeat, something he/she expects of more or less everyone.
  • Organics and Synthetics are no longer destined to wage war on eachother. - Yes the Geth eventually turned good, and EDI is good too, but everyone knows new AI will pop up - that was the whole reason the Intelligence was created, to fix this inevitable conflict.
  • Several hundred million years worth of harvesting knowledge and culture of other civilizations is shared by the Reapers.
  • The galaxy basically enters a golden age, this is mostly the case for Paragon Shepard, had Renegade Shepard chosen this ending it wouldn't necessarily be true (considering all the mistrust and genocides).
  • Synthesis achieved what every past organic civilization has tried to achieve through the creation of synthetic life, an ascension to uplift the races to something more than they are.
  • Everyone's skin has a green synthetic texture and glowing eyes. If this is the only negative problem that you have against Synthesis, and if you let this keep you from choosing it, then you're not Paragon Shepard.
So besides Shepard dying and not living on in any way or form here, what negative effects come of this ending?

The refusal ending:

I generally like this ending, it's fun. Paragon Shepard could choose it, but I find it unlikely as he/she is in a very fatal state, and with the whole "this is our final push" ordeal happening in the back, it is an unlikely logical choice.

One note I have about it though, the Intelligence claims synthesis is inevitable, I don't understand why it didn't force that on the galaxy rather than continue the cycle - now that it knows "we're ready".

Modifié par DoYouReadThis, 12 janvier 2014 - 09:52 .


#2
Guest_StreetMagic_*

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I'm glad you qualified it with "Paragon" at least.

Although I can see Paragon fit in Control just as much (but your point about Shep not being able to build new Reapers is interesting). Both of them want to solve every/any problem, "nip things in the bud", if you will, and thwart any notion of Chaos, future or presnt. To me, that's the epitome of Paragon thinking. Fortunately, I don't care myself. Chaos is fun.

#3
DoYouReadThis

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StreetMagic wrote...

I'm glad you qualified it with "Paragon" at least.

Although I can see Paragon fit in Control just as much (but your point about Shep not being able to build new Reapers is interesting). Both of them want to solve every/any problem, "nip things in the bud", if you will, and thwart any notion of Chaos, future or presnt. To me, that's the epitome of Paragon thinking. Fortunately, I don't care myself. Chaos is fun.


Yeah, honestly its a pretty impossible task. To even believe that its achieved in either case, we would need much much more story or lore from future events than a mere slideshow, but it's bothersome to see how "destroy" is always considered the "right" choice.

I wish Control had a better ending sequence for Renegade Shepard, honestly. KOTOR-style preferably.

Modifié par DoYouReadThis, 12 janvier 2014 - 09:09 .


#4
Br3admax

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Remember when the Alliance used to tell us what was Paragon and Renegade, because we can't think for ourselves? I guess the Reapers get to do that now.

#5
AlexMBrennan

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Nope. Much like ME1, Shepard does not have enough information to make an educated decision so there is ample room to Shepards (regardless of alignment) to make different guesses and thus come to different conclusions.

If you want to write a moral dilemma, you need to establish the facts first.

#6
Obadiah

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OP, I don't think you can really judge the Decision Chamber decision based on what happens afterwards. You can only judge it based on the information at hand at the time of the choice.

#7
ImaginaryMatter

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The problem with Synthesis I think mainly lies in what it does to Synthetics. According to the Catalyst they gain, "Full understanding of Organics." A lot of my problem with this statement could very well lie with how vague the it is (Oh boy, and it is very ambiguous). However, to me it seems to suggest that some mental paradigm within the AIs is changed (if somehow AIs develop in such away that eventually they rebel against Organics before Synthesis, they now develop in such away that they do not) and such change seems unethical and seems to go against the Paragon creed. Couple that with forcing a very large change upon the galaxy with very little comprehension of such an action's consequence (from Shepard's perspective) and Synthesis appears to be more of a Renegade option, as Shepard violates the choice of everyone in the galaxy to impose such a radical change to the very nature of life, even if the intention of that choice is well intended.

I think the true Paragon choice is Refusal out of all 4 endings, in my opinion, it is certainly the most idealistic.

P.S. I'm not assuming Paragon = Good, Renegade = Evil

Modifié par ImaginaryMatter, 12 janvier 2014 - 09:30 .


#8
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Obadiah wrote...

OP, I don't think you can really judge the Decision Chamber decision based on what happens afterwards. You can only judge it based on the information at hand at the time of the choice.


Even in that sense, I still see the intrinsic appeal of Synthesis for a Paragon (and Control too). Specifically if they are the type who wants to solve everything, place things in a way so that they play out in the most ideal manner possible, etc.. The kind of person who still worries about the Genophage cure results, Geth/Quarian results, and who picks dialogue like "It’s hard enough fighting a war, but it’s worse knowing no matter how hard you try… you can’t save them all." If they see an idea that would solve all of their dreams and perceived problems in one fell swoop, I can see them taking it. What's immediately apparent in both Synthesis and Control is how much power you can wield to make this happen (and that is what it boils down to: power).

Modifié par StreetMagic, 12 janvier 2014 - 09:33 .


#9
R0gueHunt3R

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I see synthesis as a violation of all life, both organic and synthetic, and thus a very renegade choice indeed.

#10
Br3admax

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StreetMagic wrote...

Obadiah wrote...

OP, I don't think you can really judge the Decision Chamber decision based on what happens afterwards. You can only judge it based on the information at hand at the time of the choice.


Even in that sense, I still see the intrinsic appeal of Synthesis for a Paragon (and Control too). Specifically if they are the type who wants to solve everything, place things in a way so that they play out in the most ideal manner possible, etc.. The kind of person who still worries about the Genophage cure results, Geth/Quarian results, and who picks dialogue like "It’s hard enough fighting a war, but it’s worse knowing no matter how hard you try… you can’t save them all." If they see an idea that would solve all of their dreams and perceived problems in one fell swoop, I can see them taking it. What's immediately apparent in both Synthesis and Control is how much power you can wield to make this happen (and that is what it boils down to: power).

Even though every choice before that using similar logic was Renegade. That doesn't sound like something a Paragon Shepard would do. 

#11
Liamv2

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Oh ****.

*Hides behind sofa*

#12
von uber

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Ask the Banshees, Husks, Brutes, Scions, Collectors, Cannibals and Praetorians how good your synthetic choice is.

#13
ImaginaryMatter

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Liamv2 wrote...

Oh ****.

*Hides behind sofa*


This thread seems to be pretty civilized so far...

so far...

#14
Excella Gionne

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Whatever happens after your choices is beyond what you can see. Leave the rest to the galaxy and see what happens. We don't know what happens after each kind of ending anyways. Will it turn out bad or good is basically speculation after what has already been shown.

#15
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Br3ad wrote...

StreetMagic wrote...

Obadiah wrote...

OP, I don't think you can really judge the Decision Chamber decision based on what happens afterwards. You can only judge it based on the information at hand at the time of the choice.


Even in that sense, I still see the intrinsic appeal of Synthesis for a Paragon (and Control too). Specifically if they are the type who wants to solve everything, place things in a way so that they play out in the most ideal manner possible, etc.. The kind of person who still worries about the Genophage cure results, Geth/Quarian results, and who picks dialogue like "It’s hard enough fighting a war, but it’s worse knowing no matter how hard you try… you can’t save them all." If they see an idea that would solve all of their dreams and perceived problems in one fell swoop, I can see them taking it. What's immediately apparent in both Synthesis and Control is how much power you can wield to make this happen (and that is what it boils down to: power).

Even though every choice before that using similar logic was Renegade. That doesn't sound like something a Paragon Shepard would do. 


Renegade wouldn't necessarily cure the genophage. And if they did, they wouldn't worry themselves over the implications. Renegade says as much when the Dalatrass warns him. I forgot exactly what he says, but it's basically "Who cares? This war is more important." The attitude belies an embrace of chaos. It's the opposite of everything the reapers and the catalyst represent.

Modifié par StreetMagic, 12 janvier 2014 - 09:40 .


#16
DoYouReadThis

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Obadiah wrote...

OP, I don't think you can really judge the Decision Chamber decision based on what happens afterwards. You can only judge it based on the information at hand at the time of the choice.


Whatever happens after your
choices is beyond what you can see. Leave the rest to the galaxy and see
what happens. We don't know what happens after each kind of ending
anyways. Will it turn out bad or good is basically speculation after
what has already been shown.

Even if you only had information pre-ending, you would still be lead to synthesis as Paragon Shepard. He would never allow the genocide of synthetics, and given the choice to "redeem" the reapers, it would be a choice at least considered.

Paragon Shepard was widely opposed to the Illusive Man's idea of controlling reapers throughout the entire game, there is no way it would be the choice, even knowing the ending.

Oh and to clarify, Paragon and Renegade aren't necessarily good/evil, but they are civil/violent.

Modifié par DoYouReadThis, 12 janvier 2014 - 09:45 .


#17
Br3admax

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StreetMagic wrote...

Br3ad wrote...

StreetMagic wrote...

Obadiah wrote...

OP, I don't think you can really judge the Decision Chamber decision based on what happens afterwards. You can only judge it based on the information at hand at the time of the choice.


Even in that sense, I still see the intrinsic appeal of Synthesis for a Paragon (and Control too). Specifically if they are the type who wants to solve everything, place things in a way so that they play out in the most ideal manner possible, etc.. The kind of person who still worries about the Genophage cure results, Geth/Quarian results, and who picks dialogue like "It’s hard enough fighting a war, but it’s worse knowing no matter how hard you try… you can’t save them all." If they see an idea that would solve all of their dreams and perceived problems in one fell swoop, I can see them taking it. What's immediately apparent in both Synthesis and Control is how much power you can wield to make this happen (and that is what it boils down to: power).

Even though every choice before that using similar logic was Renegade. That doesn't sound like something a Paragon Shepard would do. 


Renegade wouldn't necessarily cure the genophage. And if they did, they wouldn't worry themselves over the implications. Renegade says as much when the Dalatrass warns him. I forgot exactly what he says, but it's basically "Who cares? This war is more important." The attitude belies an embrace of chaos. It's the opposite of everything the reapers and the catalyst represent.

Do you want to rewritte the heretics? "Sure." Renegade. 
We want to decide our own lives. "I know what's better." Renegade
"I need to decide when to end things. It won't get better." Villian-Status achieved 

That kind of thing.

#18
Liamv2

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ImaginaryMatter wrote...

Liamv2 wrote...

Oh ****.

*Hides behind sofa*


This thread seems to be pretty civilized so far...

so far...


These threads usually become rape arguments at around page 4

#19
Guest_tickle267_*

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in keeping with the rules: butt plug.

#20
Guest_StreetMagic_*

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Br3ad wrote...

Do you want to rewritte the heretics? "Sure." Renegade. 
We want to decide our own lives. "I know what's better." Renegade
"I need to decide when to end things. It won't get better." Villian-Status achieved 

That kind of thing.


The Heretic quest is tricky. With all the leading conversations talking to Legion, the Destroy options are Paragon, while rewriting is Renegade. At the end though, Destroying the Heretics is the Renegade choice (you get a whopping 30 something Renegade points for it. One of the largest in the game). Rewrting is Paragon in the end.

Modifié par StreetMagic, 12 janvier 2014 - 09:46 .


#21
DoYouReadThis

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Liamv2 wrote...

ImaginaryMatter wrote...

Liamv2 wrote...

Oh ****.

*Hides behind sofa*


This thread seems to be pretty civilized so far...

so far...


These threads usually become rape arguments at around page 4


It's funny, I actually debated with myself if I'd bother posting this at all, simply because of this.

Modifié par DoYouReadThis, 12 janvier 2014 - 09:49 .


#22
DoYouReadThis

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StreetMagic wrote...

Br3ad wrote...

Do you want to rewritte the heretics? "Sure." Renegade. 
We want to decide our own lives. "I know what's better." Renegade
"I need to decide when to end things. It won't get better." Villian-Status achieved 

That kind of thing.


The Heretic quest is tricky. With all the leading conversations talking to Legion, the Destroy options are Paragon, while rewriting is Renegade. At the end though, Destroying the Heretics is the Renegade choice (you get a whopping 30 something Renegade points for it. One of the largest in the game). Rewrting is Paragon in the end.


The heretics were also in bed with the Reapers, so its a bit extra tricky there isn't it. As in - are you liberating them or brainwashing them?

Modifié par DoYouReadThis, 12 janvier 2014 - 09:48 .


#23
Br3admax

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Agreeing with the Reapers in anyway.
"Listen to yourself...you're Indoctrinated."

Oh Keith, why?

#24
DoomsdayDevice

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Yeah, right.

"Embrace perfection."

Image IPB

#25
Navasha

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Uh... NO. Please. I don't see any "Paragon" forcing the entire galaxy to conform to some twisted AI logic that in order for there to be peace and harmony, you must destroy all life as you know it and rewrite it so everything and everyone in the universe is homogenized into a single new type of life.

So much for diversity and cooperation...

Synthesis isn't even a choice a 'Renegade' would make. Its the choice a confused and defeatist personality would take... like Saren.