210 réponses à ce sujet

[ToJKa1]

But sacrificing few to save many strikes to me as Renegade thinking. See Overlord, Bring Down The Sky, Geth Heretics, Rachni Queen in ME1 sort of fits too. Choosing to kill in all of them (and leaving David in Overlord) reward Renegade points. Paragon would want to save everyone, therefore Synthesis or Control.  I can't see Destroy as anything but Renegade. And refuse as anything but giving up

Personally, i choose Destroy for my full Renegade, Control for full Paragon, and Synthesis for dabbling-in-both characters.

Modifié par ToJKa1, 13 janvier 2014 - 02:39 .

[MrMrPendragon]

 ^^^^^ Sure.

But I never really saw the endings in a "paragon" / "renegade" perspective anyway. Besides, sacrifice doesn't necessarily mean death. There are elements of sacrifice in all the endings.

Modifié par ArcherTactlenecks, 13 janvier 2014 - 02:42 .

[ToJKa1]

Well, i do think of them that way, as pretty much everything else in the games revolves around that system.

Also i think it was poor choice to have the player be able to choose the ending, it might have been better if the ending had been decided based on actions taken during the three games.

Of course, that would have caused a whole new level of ****ing

Modifié par ToJKa1, 13 janvier 2014 - 02:47 .

[His Name was HYR!!]

ToJKa1 wrote.. 

Personally, i choose Destroy for my full Renegade, Control for full Paragon, and Synthesis for dabbling-in-both characters.

This is how I see them.

[Deebo305]

To this day, I don't view the ending on whether said option is Paragon or Renegade because all 3 are equally viable solutions to a immediate and very real threat

I'll always choose destroy because I want to destroy the Reapers and let the galaxy move on without the fear of destruction by these harvesters. I lose the Geth and EDI but save everyone else...not a tough choice

Also I never play full Renegade or Paragon, I always go Paragade or Renegon because I see a Shepard a leader who make smart decisions not purposely dumb or self serving

[DoYouReadThis]

Jeremiah12LGeek wrote...

Synthesis was an intriguing idea, and has merits, from a sci fi point of view.

You're still going to get roasted alive for defending it, though. It's the ending that offends people the most, and I have yet to see anyone successfully start a reasonable discussion about it without being declared all kinds of horrible nasty things.

Which is a shame, really. Good luck.

Yeah I notice this - I noticed about 90% of the people speaking against this thread did not actually read it, they use arguments which I already explained as flawed, and if they actually did read it, well.. then they are merely repeating themselves like an indoctrinated servant.

I notice the biggest complaint is still that people think synthesis creates an abomination - why? Synthesis achieves what Organics and Synthetics alike have been reaching for since the beginning, was it forced upon the Galaxy? Sure, just like Legion forced his knowledge about Shepard onto the Geth.

People are saying that I am making Paragon what I want it to be: How? Destroy is violent (aka the essence of Renegade), it kills off billions upon billions of people across both Synthetic and Organic life, but it ends the war - it is exactly what Paragon Shepard spoke against in past conversations, it is literally what he spoke against.

Control? Paragon Shepard has throughout the entire series spoken wildly against any form of hands-on control of Reaper technology, or even keeping Reaper technology (collector base) despite it not being able to indoctrinate - To take the Control path, you would simply be doing a complete 180, it would be way out of character to choose this.

Synthesis? If you have the knowledge gained from Leviathan, and if you have paid attention throughout the trilogy, then it should be clear to you that the Intelligence is not some evil AI hellbent on destruction, and frankly you have little reason to disbelieve its information, especially because it itself gives you the choice.

Deebo305 wrote...

To this day, I don't view the ending on
whether said option is Paragon or Renegade because all 3 are equally
viable solutions to a immediate and very real threat

I'll always
choose destroy because I want to destroy the Reapers and let the galaxy
move on without the fear of destruction by these harvesters. I lose the
Geth and EDI but save everyone else...not a tough choice

Also I
never play full Renegade or Paragon, I always go Paragade or Renegon
because I see a Shepard a leader who make smart decisions not purposely
dumb or self serving

Yes, all three endings are "viable", but two of them go completely against how Paragon Shepard is - as observed through previous conversations in the game.

Synthesis is merely the one that doesn't hurt anyone. The only thing that it does, is that it makes some people upset that they now have green glowy texture all over their skin, that they aren't purely "organic" anymore.

Cowboy Saunter wrote...

Im not ganna bother reading, but somewhat skimmed at least.

but
with that said, if you reach deep down in your robot core.you will find
actually "paragon" cannon ending is truly Control.if you find my
response wrong.then you need to use your brain

Best comment.

ToJKa1 wrote...

But sacrificing few to save many strikes
to me as Renegade thinking. See Overlord, Bring Down The Sky, Geth
Heretics, Rachni Queen in ME1 sort of fits too. Choosing to kill in all
of them (and leaving David in Overlord) reward Renegade points. Paragon
would want to save everyone, therefore Synthesis or Control.  I can't
see Destroy as anything but Renegade. And refuse as anything but giving
up

Personally, i choose Destroy for my full Renegade, Control for full Paragon, and Synthesis for dabbling-in-both characters.

This is exactly what I'm saying about Destroy btw. It doesn't make sense to choose it as Paragon, if you paid attention to who Shepard is.

Modifié par DoYouReadThis, 13 janvier 2014 - 07:55 .

[Deebo305]

@DoYouReadThis

I'd have no problem with Synthesis if it didn't give the Reapers a free pass. These things kill and converted countless beings throughout the galaxy but they're allow to live in harmony because...Synthesis?

No ill will whatsoever just feels wrong, makes the "peace" in synthesis feel truly inorganic.

[DoYouReadThis]

Deebo305 wrote...

@DoYouReadThis

I'd have no problem with Synthesis if it didn't give the Reapers a free pass. These things kill and converted countless beings throughout the galaxy but they're allow to live in harmony because...Synthesis?

No ill will whatsoever just feels wrong, makes the "peace" in synthesis feel truly inorganic.

This is my biggest quarrel with it as well, but the Geth got the same treatment in the end, despite having a far lower body count. The Reapers weren't there to annihilate civilizations, they preserved their knowledge and culture - in a morbid way - so that no civilization would become lost in time, and with Synthesis this knowledge is shared with the galaxy, no one is forgotten to the reapers this way. On top of that? Synthesis makes sure history doesn't repeat itself.

Modifié par DoYouReadThis, 13 janvier 2014 - 07:46 .

[Vigilant111]

@OP: A few points:

Shepard did not help the geth become good guys, he / she helped them become free

Anderson IS the epitome of "good", this is evident from the lore's conspicuous portrayal of a protagonist. However, you are correct in the observation that Anderson's actions do (or should?) not affect Shepard's decision making

I don't think many destroyers adopt the view that in destroy everything goes back to normal. Rather, this is usually a discourse chosen by synthesis supporters to discredit the destroy ending: "The galaxy goes back to a state of the dark ages"

I wished there was a way to retort to the Catalyst when it said that the peace won't last: "The peace won't last because of what exactly? Because the reapers - your solution/creation are dead?". It is not unreasonable to interpret the Catalyst's words in the way that it tries to align the demise of the reapers to the doom of the galaxy, since destroy (at least in theory) obliterates all reapers, and all other endings leave reapers intact

[Obadiah]

DoYouReadThis wrote...
...
Control? Paragon Shepard has throughout the entire series spoken wildly against any form of hands-on control of Reaper technology, or even keeping Reaper technology (collector base) despite it not being able to indoctrinate - To take the Control path, you would simply be doing a complete 180, it would be way out of character to choose this.
...

Aren't there just 2 instances of this: The Collector Base and Sanctuary? For the Collector Base, Paragon may simply not have trusted TIM's motives.

If you're referring to Shepard's opposition to TIM in ME3, I took that as Shepard believing that controlling the Reapers was impossible, and that TIM was just crazy.

DoYouReadThis wrote...
...
Synthesis? If you have the knowledge gained from Leviathan, and if you have paid attention throughout the trilogy, then it should be clear to you that the Intelligence is not some evil AI hellbent on destruction, and frankly you have little reason to disbelieve its information, especially because it itself gives you the choice.
...

Yeah, but what does that have to do with being a Paragon choice? Paragon usually tries to convince people of non-violent cooperative mutally beneficial action with appeals to their better nature, rather than Renegade who just forces them to do things usually with violence. With Synthesis, Shepard is making and enforcing a decision for all forms of life for life's benefit. I can defend the choice, but I wouldn't call it Paragon.

[NeonFlux117]

I disagree. The Ultra paragon choice is refuse.

Full Paragon Shepard is naive and has grandiose ideas of morality and stuff.

And as Javik states-

The cosmos has never rewarded the naive.

As illustrated in refuse.

Synthesis is the "neutral" option. Hence why it's in the middle... Control is paragon... A true sacrifice for the greater good. Everyone lives and stay's the same, but... Shepard.

Fun fact. When viewed from above. The "Decision chamber" is in the shape of the dialogue wheel...

Take that for what you will.

[SilJeff]

Paragon Control is always my paragon shepard's ending. Save the most people and protects the galaxy from future threats

[NeonFlux117]

SilJeff wrote...

Paragon Control is always my paragon shepard's ending. Save the most people and protects the galaxy from future threats

Yep, only through an intervention of Cognitive Dissonance will a paragon shepard choose another ending and... wake up, so to speak. 

[ImaginaryMatter]

NeonFlux117 wrote...

Fun fact. When viewed from above. The "Decision chamber" is in the shape of the dialogue wheel...

Take that for what you will.

That makes me wonder what lies on the other side of the wheel.

[NeonFlux117]

ImaginaryMatter wrote...

NeonFlux117 wrote...

Fun fact. When viewed from above. The "Decision chamber" is in the shape of the dialogue wheel...

Take that for what you will.

That makes me wonder what lies on the other side of the wheel.

Indeed.

"Only your actions will be remembered" 

[von uber]

Obadiah wrote...

Br3ad wrote...
...
DNA rape sounds all Renegade to me. 
...

And so long as you keep characterizing it in that fashion it will remain that way in your head.

Because that's what it is. Also, I hope they set up counselling sessions for those newly self aware cannibals. 

[Daemul]

von uber wrote...

Obadiah wrote...

Br3ad wrote...
...
DNA rape sounds all Renegade to me. 
...

And so long as you keep characterizing it in that fashion it will remain that way in your head.

Because that's what it is. Also, I hope they set up counselling sessions for those newly self aware cannibals. 

[NeonFlux117]

 Synthesis: One love. One heart. One. We can be one.... 
It's a kind of magik. The greatest of magik...

Modifié par NeonFlux117, 13 janvier 2014 - 10:07 .

[Almostfaceman]

Okay, I'm walking down the street. Some dude with a magic space wand walks up to me and says "Hey! I'm going to change you down to your very DNA! I'll make you part mechanical-licious! It'll solve that itchy problem in the future for when the robots we make revolt against us - they won't - because we'll be sorta robots too! Stand still!"

Me: "Wait, I don't want to be changed hold on -"

Some dude: *waves magic wand* "Ta Da!"

Me: "You crazy fokker, you just changed me without my permission! What the... I feel violated! Get away from me! MOOOOMMMMMM!"

That's synthesis.

[NeonFlux117]

Almostfaceman wrote...

Okay, I'm walking down the street. Some dude with a magic space wand walks up to me and says "Hey! I'm going to change you down to your very DNA! I'll make you part mechanical-licious! It'll solve that itchy problem in the future for when the robots we make revolt against us - they won't - because we'll be sorta robots too! Stand still!"

Me: "Wait, I don't want to be changed hold on -"

Some dude: *waves magic wand* "Ta Da!"

Me: "You crazy fokker, you just changed me without my permission! What the... I feel violated! Get away from me! MOOOOMMMMMM!"

That's synthesis.

Listen up Mr. Bale. I do not like your "thoughts" about my beloved synthesis and it's magik. It is perfect. Its is one. 

We will all be One. Whole. 

[Almostfaceman]

NeonFlux117 wrote...

Listen up Mr. Bale. I do not like your "thoughts" about my beloved synthesis and it's magik. It is perfect. Its is one. 

We will all be One. Whole. 

Modifié par Almostfaceman, 13 janvier 2014 - 10:27 .

[NeonFlux117]

Almostfaceman wrote...

NeonFlux117 wrote...

Listen up Mr. Bale. I do not like your "thoughts" about my beloved synthesis and it's magik. It is perfect. Its is one. 

We will all be One. Whole. 

I tell ya Mr. Bale, this is no "laughing" matter good Sir. You are attacking my beloved synthesis. And for that... You must be dealt with....

[Almostfaceman]

NeonFlux117 wrote...

I tell ya Mr. Bale, this is no "laughing" matter good Sir. You are attacking my beloved synthesis. And for that... You must be dealt with....

[NeonFlux117]

Almostfaceman wrote...

NeonFlux117 wrote...

I tell ya Mr. Bale, this is no "laughing" matter good Sir. You are attacking my beloved synthesis. And for that... You must be dealt with....

Mr. Bale, may I ask you to refrain from trash talking about my beloved synthesis. 

I thought you'd have more professionalism than this. 

Are you not an Artist of the Screen... Aren't Artists suppose to have intergrity?!?!??

[sevalaricgirl]

My Shep is mostly paragon and went for destroy which is the only good ending if you want the sentient races to make a proper come back and rebuild. And honestly, Shep is into self preservation. That's why he/she is fighting Cerberus, the reapers, anything else out there. Defeat the bad for the good. Reapers are bad and therefore must be destroyed.

One note:  We, as humans, are all into self preservations.  It's bred into us since the cavemen.  We will do anything to keep us and ours alive.

Modifié par sevalaricgirl, 13 janvier 2014 - 11:23 .