65 réponses à ce sujet

[Khavos]

Well, "taking over the galaxy" may have been a bit hyperbolic, but the driving point was that I genuinely don't get why things like the N7 program, for example, aren't exclusive to biotics.  I know the main argument is rarity, but that doesn't seem to hold up with what you actually see in the game and in the background.  They're rare, sure, but not so rare that one of the more powerful human biotics (Kaidan) can't be assigned to a dinky role as a detachment commander.

[Han Shot First]

Khavos wrote...

Well, "taking over the galaxy" may have been a bit hyperbolic, but the driving point was that I genuinely don't get why things like the N7 program, for example, aren't exclusive to biotics.  

The N school is a military special operations indoc/training program. Biotic abilitity wouldn't necessarily make anyone more capable of passing it. All of of the military skills (small unit tactics, marksmanship, land navigation, demolitions, ect, ect ) and physical fitness requirements would likely be far more important than command over biotics.

Modifié par Han Shot First, 23 janvier 2014 - 07:04 .

[RangerSG]

Khavos wrote...

Well, "taking over the galaxy" may have been a bit hyperbolic, but the driving point was that I genuinely don't get why things like the N7 program, for example, aren't exclusive to biotics.  I know the main argument is rarity, but that doesn't seem to hold up with what you actually see in the game and in the background.  They're rare, sure, but not so rare that one of the more powerful human biotics (Kaidan) can't be assigned to a dinky role as a detachment commander.

Because there's more ways to be a soldier than being a biotic. One can be a perfectly good soldier and not have a lick of biotic ability. Also, N7 is volunteer. Not everyone 'wants' to go through the training. Kaidan never expresses a lick of interest in the program. 

There are lots of career paths in today's military. Even more in a space-based one with all the associated technology. 

[shodiswe]

Biotics may help you in a brawl, but it does little to make you the beloved leader of trillions.

[Khavos]

Han Shot First wrote...

Khavos wrote...

Well, "taking over the galaxy" may have been a bit hyperbolic, but the driving point was that I genuinely don't get why things like the N7 program, for example, aren't exclusive to biotics.  

The N school is a military special operations indoc/training program. Biotic abilitity wouldn't necessarily make anyone more capable of passing it. All of of the military skills (small unit tactics, marksmanship, land navigation, demolitions, ect, ect ) and physical fitness requirements would likely be far more important than command over biotics.

No, biotic ability wouldn't necessarily make anyone more capable of passing it, but so what?  We're not looking at it from a "how hard is the training?" perspective, we're looking at it from a, "how effective is the resulting soldier?" one.

Your special ops teams can be composed of snake-eating door-kickers, or they can be composed of snake-eating door kickers...with biotics.  There's simply no downside to the latter.  

[SwobyJ]

Khavos wrote...

Well, "taking over the galaxy" may have been a bit hyperbolic, but the driving point was that I genuinely don't get why things like the N7 program, for example, aren't exclusive to biotics.  I know the main argument is rarity, but that doesn't seem to hold up with what you actually see in the game and in the background.  They're rare, sure, but not so rare that one of the more powerful human biotics (Kaidan) can't be assigned to a dinky role as a detachment commander.

There aren't enough biotics to pick through for that.

And a particular biotic doesn't necessarily have any aptitiude for the demanding situations N7s are in.

And biotics = weakness, actually. You tire out more. A big part of being a N7 is that you can weather the toughest odds.

However, this is the current situation.

Of course, if we hypothetically look decades into the MEU, biotics may become more common, more acceptable (socially, organizationally, physically) to integrate into forces, implants are getting better and better..
..this all suggests a future where humans may end up with a good level of ability in all fields, heck, military or not; combat training, technology use, and biotics.

But for now, it's a specialized field that doesn't necessarily involve biotics.

So you can move things? So what? There's probably omnitool apps that will end up doing similar things anyway. (not yet, but the princible may apply)

It comes down to aptitude and synergy with other skillsets. And that pool is VERY VERY VERY tiny, most likely, if the Alliance is looking for N7 candidates that are also biotics users.

[SwobyJ]

Khavos wrote...

Han Shot First wrote...

Khavos wrote...

Well, "taking over the galaxy" may have been a bit hyperbolic, but the driving point was that I genuinely don't get why things like the N7 program, for example, aren't exclusive to biotics.  

The N school is a military special operations indoc/training program. Biotic abilitity wouldn't necessarily make anyone more capable of passing it. All of of the military skills (small unit tactics, marksmanship, land navigation, demolitions, ect, ect ) and physical fitness requirements would likely be far more important than command over biotics.

No, biotic ability wouldn't necessarily make anyone more capable of passing it, but so what?  We're not looking at it from a "how hard is the training?" perspective, we're looking at it from a, "how effective is the resulting soldier?" one.

Your special ops teams can be composed of snake-eating door-kickers, or they can be composed of snake-eating door kickers...with biotics.  There's simply no downside to the latter.  

Yes there is.

-pay for implants and their upkeep
-training, possibly years more
-currently, humans still suffer sideeffects from biotic use (though it looks like the newer generations may not)
-accounting for biotics going wrong (sorry, but we have near-masters of biotics on Shepard's team - lorewise, its not so simple)
-exhaustion faster

It's not that N7 would turn down biotics. Not at all. But at the current state of the Alliance and even Council technology, culture, and economy, it's more a factor to utilize, than an immediate 'OH WE NEEDS THAT'.

There is ongoing research and initiatives meant to change that though, I'm 100% sure. In fact, in a potential sequel, I'd almost expect the rise of human biotics to be a thing.

I think Bioware made a mistake in giving Jacob Taylor biotics. I think that was one too many human henchman characters with it (4/8), and it presented a slanted story. Biotics are actually still rare during the trilogy's time, only a segment of them even go for military, and only an even smaller amount would even attempt to get into N7/top forces.

Sure, even a few years later that seems to be changing, but we shouldn't even take the ME3 co-op as a full representation. In lore, the pool is VERY small, and is only just starting to be large enough to even try to go "Oh, you have biotics, well we have the top position to train and groom you for!" It's not that simple.

[SwobyJ]

Asari do show what would happen at least to a society fully made of biotics.

They would pick those with the most potential and try to find a place for them. Cool.

But that's not human society. And simply being able to push and pull people around (for most biotics, that's the fullest extent of their abilities), isn't that useful in itself.

Eh, I'll stop now, but I really do think you're oversimplifying things in order to push your original posting's point. Fact is, even if we had a fraction of humanity on THIS earth with the powers we see from biotics, it'd be easy enough to counter with and have a measure of control over. There's social, cultural, emotional, physical limitations to how biotics are described. You're not exactly a space god.

[Khavos]

SwobyJ wrote...
Yes there is.

-pay for implants and their upkeep

Eh.  For a military that already spends bucks on gene therapy for recruits, I don't think that'd be an issue.

-training, possibly years more

Training, sure, but we've already seen that the Alliance starts training biotics as kids, as opposed to having to be at least 18 for non-biotic BCT or whatever the space equivalent is.  

-currently, humans still suffer sideeffects from biotic use (though it looks like the newer generations may not)

Other than static electricity build up, I'm not aware of any since the jump to the L3s.

-accounting for biotics going wrong (sorry, but we have near-masters of biotics on Shepard's team - lorewise, its not so simple)  

Not sure what this one means.

-exhaustion faster

When actually using biotics, yes.  I think the point everyone's missing is that biotics don't have to constantly be using only biotics.  Put it this way: who wins in a fight, the best marksman in the world, or his twin, the other best marksman in the world who also happens to be a biotic?  

If you have a choice between James Vega or James Vega with biotics for your super secret squirrel special black ops door-kicking snake-eating special agentman squad, you're going with James Vega with biotics.  Why wouldn't you?  He can do everything normal James Vega can do after all, but he can do a lot of stuff that normal James Vega can't.  

Modifié par Khavos, 23 janvier 2014 - 02:01 .

[Han Shot First]

Khavos wrote...

Han Shot First wrote...

Khavos wrote...

Well, "taking over the galaxy" may have been a bit hyperbolic, but the driving point was that I genuinely don't get why things like the N7 program, for example, aren't exclusive to biotics.  

The N school is a military special operations indoc/training program. Biotic abilitity wouldn't necessarily make anyone more capable of passing it. All of of the military skills (small unit tactics, marksmanship, land navigation, demolitions, ect, ect ) and physical fitness requirements would likely be far more important than command over biotics.

No, biotic ability wouldn't necessarily make anyone more capable of passing it, but so what?  We're not looking at it from a "how hard is the training?" perspective, we're looking at it from a, "how effective is the resulting soldier?" one.

Your special ops teams can be composed of snake-eating door-kickers, or they can be composed of snake-eating door kickers...with biotics.  There's simply no downside to the latter.  

There is a considerable downside.

Biotics need to worry about fatigue or exhaustion, as both impact their ability to use and adequately control their biotics. The problem? Many of the day-to-day tasks assigned to military personnel induce fatigue or exhaustion.

Lets say a four man N team is sent on a reconnaissance mission, a common task assigned to special operations unit. That team is going to insert far from its end goal to avoid detection. It could insert in the middle of the night, and spend as many seven or eight hours slogging to that objective, with full packs and all their gear, and potentially over rough or difficult terrain. In this scenario, lets say its over fairly rocky, mountainous terrain. By the end of it they are going to fairly spent and beat up, and may have been operating on a lack of sleep even prior to the mission. How useful is a team full of biotics going to be at the end of that?

It would make more sense IMO, than rather than having a full team of biotics, that biotics would be treated similar to say...a scout/sniper. It would be a specialized task within a unit rather than a role that all members of that unit were required to fill.

In the above scenario instead you might have one team member who is a biotic, more lighly armed than the rest (in game we see biotics being more lightly equipped to reduce fatigue) and with whatever equipment or supplies he might need for the mission being either entirely, or partially, carried in the other three team members' packs.

Modifié par Han Shot First, 23 janvier 2014 - 06:38 .

[SwobyJ]

Khavos wrote...

SwobyJ wrote...
Yes there is.

-pay for implants and their upkeep

Eh.  For a military that already spends bucks on gene therapy for recruits, I don't think that'd be an issue.

-training, possibly years more

Training, sure, but we've already seen that the Alliance starts training biotics as kids, as opposed to having to be at least 18 for non-biotic BCT or whatever the space equivalent is.  

-currently, humans still suffer sideeffects from biotic use (though it looks like the newer generations may not)

Other than static electricity build up, I'm not aware of any since the jump to the L3s.

-accounting for biotics going wrong (sorry, but we have near-masters of biotics on Shepard's team - lorewise, its not so simple)  

Not sure what this one means.

-exhaustion faster

When actually using biotics, yes.  I think the point everyone's missing is that biotics don't have to constantly be using only biotics.  Put it this way: who wins in a fight, the best marksman in the world, or his twin, the other best marksman in the world who also happens to be a biotic?  

If you have a choice between James Vega or James Vega with biotics for your super secret squirrel special black ops door-kicking snake-eating special agentman squad, you're going with James Vega with biotics.  Why wouldn't you?  He can do everything normal James Vega can do after all, but he can do a lot of stuff that normal James Vega can't.  

Where is this James Vega with biotics? Should we expose him to Element Zero?

Also L3 is NEW. That was my POINT. It's something to look forward to as a commonality in the future, but there are reasons for less humans as biotics in ME1 and prior to the trilogy.

[Khavos]

Han Shot First wrote...

There is a considerable downside.

Biotics need to worry about fatigue or exhaustion, as both impact their ability to use and adequately control their biotics. The problem? Many of the day-to-day tasks assigned to military personnel induce fatigue or exhaustion.

Lets say a four man N team is sent on a reconnaissance mission, a common task assigned to special operations unit. That team is going to insert far from its end goal to avoid detection. It could insert in the middle of the night, and spend as many seven or eight hours slogging to that objective, with full packs and all their gear, and potentially over rough or difficult terrain. In this scenario, lets say its over fairly rocky, mountainous terrain. By the end of it they are going to fairly spent and beat up, and may have been operating on a lack of sleep even prior to the mission. How useful is a team full of biotics going to be at the end of that?

At least as useful as a team of non-biotics?  Again, having biotic ability does not mean you need to constantly and exclusively use your biotic ability.  Biotics can do anythingn on-biotics can do.  In the situation you described, even if they're too tired to be able to safely use their biotic abilities, they're not somehow going to be less efficient than non-biotic soldiers in the same situation.

Maybe this is a better analogy: you have two Nissan Skylines.  You put a nitrous oxide system in one.  The one with the nitrous?  That's your biotic.  Sure, nos doesn't last forever.  But it's there when you need it, and you don't need to use it when you don't.  The nos Skyline can do everything the non-nitrous Skyline can do, but it can also do more.  

Han Shot First wrote...

In the above scenario instead you might have one team member who is a biotic, more lighly armed than the rest (in game we see biotics being more lightly equipped to reduce fatigue) and with whatever equipment or supplies he might need for the mission being either entirely, or partially, carried in the other three team members' packs.

Well, sort of.  We saw biotic Shepard being more lightly equipped, though this became less true as the series advanced.  I can think of plenty of biotics, both squad members and otherwise, who certainly weren't lightly equipped.  

SwobyJ wrote...

Where is this James Vega with biotics? Should we expose him to Element Zero?

Also L3 is NEW. That was my POINT. It's something to look forward to as a commonality in the future, but there are reasons for less humans as biotics in ME1 and prior to the trilogy.

L3's not that new.  Shep's in his 30s, and had L3s at the start of ME1, and I believe biotic amps get put in pretty early.  Even newer amps have come out since then.  

As to where the James Vega with biotics is, I'm sure he's around somewhere.  Biotic rarity's talked up quite a bit, but it doesn't seem to be the needle-in-the-haystack level of rarity it's made out to be.  The BAaT program, the Ascension Project, the sheer number of varied human biotics you encounter during the course of the game - everything from squadmates to enemies to cultists, etc. - makes it pretty clear that while biotic ability is very far from the norm in humans, there are enough of them running around out there.

And, given the choice, with all other things being equal, you'd want a biotic soldier over a non-biotic one.

Modifié par Khavos, 24 janvier 2014 - 07:11 .

[SwobyJ]

You're still placing exceptional situations, individuals, and circumstances, and acting like that can be the case throughout a galactic society. I think I'm done here.

[Khavos]

SwobyJ wrote...

You're still placing exceptional situations, individuals, and circumstances, and acting like that can be the case throughout a galactic society. I think I'm done here.

Your contention is that we should discuss average individuals when talking about tip-of-the-spear special operations units?  

Odd.  

[RangerSG]

Khavos wrote...

SwobyJ wrote...

You're still placing exceptional situations, individuals, and circumstances, and acting like that can be the case throughout a galactic society. I think I'm done here.

Your contention is that we should discuss average individuals when talking about tip-of-the-spear special operations units?  

Odd.  

No, his contention is that there are many more ways to become exceptional than biotics. We might add that competence in biotics does not necessitate competence in any other field. You've also consistently ignored the fact that there are a large number of ways to neutralize biotics, even within the game. Just because a person doesn't have biotics doesn't make them 'average.' 

[Khavos]

RangerSG wrote...

No, his contention is that there are many more ways to become exceptional than biotics. We might add that competence in biotics does not necessitate competence in any other field. You've also consistently ignored the fact that there are a large number of ways to neutralize biotics, even within the game. Just because a person doesn't have biotics doesn't make them 'average.' 

What are the numerous ways biotics can be neutralized, out of curiosity?  If we take the novels and published codex entries, kinetic shields won't do it.  Range is the only factor I can think of that'd let you safely go toe-to-toe with a biotic.

As for competence in other fields, well, I tend to assume that anyone accepted into the Alliance's special operations training program probably knows which end of the gun the bullets come out of.  

The argument isn't that anyone who lacks biotic ability is average.  The argument is that, all other things being equal, Biotic Soldier A is always a better choice than Non-Biotic Soldier B.  As there seem to be enough human biotics around, I wonder at the Alliance not exclusively using biotic special operations personnel.  Sure, that's where the vast majority of biotics wind up with the Alliance, but it begs the question of what you need non-biotics for, aside from support staffing.  

[Han Shot First]

Khavos wrote...

Han Shot First wrote...

There is a considerable downside.

Biotics need to worry about fatigue or exhaustion, as both impact their ability to use and adequately control their biotics. The problem? Many of the day-to-day tasks assigned to military personnel induce fatigue or exhaustion.

Lets say a four man N team is sent on a reconnaissance mission, a common task assigned to special operations unit. That team is going to insert far from its end goal to avoid detection. It could insert in the middle of the night, and spend as many seven or eight hours slogging to that objective, with full packs and all their gear, and potentially over rough or difficult terrain. In this scenario, lets say its over fairly rocky, mountainous terrain. By the end of it they are going to fairly spent and beat up, and may have been operating on a lack of sleep even prior to the mission. How useful is a team full of biotics going to be at the end of that?

At least as useful as a team of non-biotics?  Again, having biotic ability does not mean you need to constantly and exclusively use your biotic ability.  Biotics can do anythingn on-biotics can do.  In the situation you described, even if they're too tired to be able to safely use their biotic abilities, they're not somehow going to be less efficient than non-biotic soldiers in the same situation.

Maybe this is a better analogy: you have two Nissan Skylines.  You put a nitrous oxide system in one.  The one with the nitrous?  That's your biotic.  Sure, nos doesn't last forever.  But it's there when you need it, and you don't need to use it when you don't.  The nos Skyline can do everything the non-nitrous Skyline can do, but it can also do more. 

Having an entire special operations unit filled with biotics would be a less efficient use of personnel. The work soldiers and Marines have to perform in combat is often exhausting work and frequently carried out on a lack of sleep. In order to maintain control over their abilities biotics have to be well-rested and keep their energy levels up, which is completely at odds with life as a combat infantryman. A mixed unit is preferable to a unit stacked with biotics because it allows that lone biotic to carry less gear (its being carried by his teammates) and preserve some of that strength to call upon his or her biotics if need be.

In the above scenario if that whole team had been stacked with biotics you've potentially got a team who after 8 hours of humping full packs over mountainous terrain, may not be able to use their biotics. Having mixed teams makes the best use of your biotics because it allows the freedom to not weigh down a biotic teammember with all the mission essential gear that would also be sapping his/her strength and degrading his/her abilities. One biotic who still has some gas in the tank is superior to four who are running on fumes.

 

Khavos wrote...

Han Shot First wrote...

In the above scenario instead you might have one team member who is a biotic, more lighly armed than the rest (in game we see biotics being more lightly equipped to reduce fatigue) and with whatever equipment or supplies he might need for the mission being either entirely, or partially, carried in the other three team members' packs.

Well, sort of.  We saw biotic Shepard being more lightly equipped, though this became less true as the series advanced.  I can think of plenty of biotics, both squad members and otherwise, who certainly weren't lightly equipped.  

Gameplay and lore don't always intersect. Although it isn't a large feature of gameplay, in the lore fatigue is a big issue for biotics. Their ability to control and use their biotics is heavily affected by their energy levels. While that might not have been a large feature of gameplay you do see some small glimpses of it in the games. Besides biotic characters generally carrying lighter weapons, you also have Jack occasionally jokingly telling her students to drink their juice. It is also why Liara was helpless when rescued on Therum. After spending a couple days suspended in that energy field, without sleep, water or food, she couldn't use her biotics.

Khavos wrote...

 And, given the choice, with all other things being equal, you'd want a biotic soldier over a non-biotic one.

I disagree.

Besides a unit staffed entirely by biotics being a very inefficient use of your biotic personnel, biotics themselves have limited utility. Outside of urban areas the average combat engagement begins at 300+ meters (approximately 50% begin beyond 300 meters). The offensive abilities of biotics are best suited for close quarters combat.

If you were to limit your special operations units to being staffed only by biotics, you are turning away excellent Marines for the sake of abilities that are best situational. That doesn't make a lot of sense. It would be a bit like requiring that all your special operations personnel be black belts in some form of martial arts, when hand-to-hand combat is rare, or requiring that all your special operations personnel be scout/snipers, when the need for a sniper is also situational. You'd not only be using your biotic personnel inefficiently, but the best of your non-biotic personnel as well. The best units are well rounded ones. Ultra-specialization is not pragmatic, from the military's perspective.

Modifié par Han Shot First, 24 janvier 2014 - 06:44 .

[Iakus]

StreetMagic wrote...

Good post, Han. Yes, the metabolism of biotics would definitely be a factor. They basically have to eat like NFL players or something. Even skinny women like Liara or Jack.

I imagine male Shepard or a biotic Vega (a vanguard basically) would just horde the whole fridge every night. :happy:

Standard Alliance soldier rations are 3000 calories a day.

Biotics get 4500 calories per day and are issued a canteen of potent energy drink for the field in case of hard combat.

[RangerSG]

Hmm, something wrong with the BSN standard reply presently. But, 'what factors mitigate biotics'?

We've already mentioned many of them. Range, Priority Targeting (aka Geek The Mage First), flanking tactics, suppressing fire, constant pressure on the barrier. Or plain simple overwhelming force. A pair of competent engineers in mechs will trump the standard biotic more times than not. And the mech is easier to repair and replace. Right down to, a mech comes off the assembly line every 20mins or so. A Biotic takes 20 years to prepare.

An Asari Commando squad in guerrilla warfare and infiltration is impressive. An Asari Commando squad on the front lines of a conventional battlefield? Not nearly as awe-inspiring.

[Han Shot First]

StreetMagic wrote...

Good post, Han. Yes, the metabolism of biotics would definitely be a factor. They basically have to eat like NFL players or something. Even skinny women like Liara or Jack.

I imagine male Shepard or a biotic Vega (a vanguard basically) would just horde the whole fridge every night.

I imagine post-war Jack will have a lucrative career with Redbull endorsements.

[Khavos]

Han Shot First wrote...

In the above scenario if that whole team had been stacked with biotics you've potentially got a team who after 8 hours of humping full packs over mountainous terrain, may not be able to use their biotics.

Let's assume for the sake of argument this is true.  So what?  Again, biotic soldiers can fight as normal soldiers in such situations.  Just because you have biotics does not mean you need to use biotics.  

I don't know.  I don't think we'll get anywhere useful as long as you continue to insist that biotic special ops guys don't know how to shoot an assault rifle, despite Kaidan, a major in a biotic special ops company, coming equipped with one.

[Han Shot First]

Khavos wrote...

Han Shot First wrote...

In the above scenario if that whole team had been stacked with biotics you've potentially got a team who after 8 hours of humping full packs over mountainous terrain, may not be able to use their biotics.

Let's assume for the sake of argument this is true.  So what?  Again, biotic soldiers can fight as normal soldiers in such situations.  Just because you have biotics does not mean you need to use biotics.  

I don't know.  I don't think we'll get anywhere useful as long as you continue to insist that biotic special ops guys don't know how to shoot an assault rifle, despite Kaidan, a major in a biotic special ops company, coming equipped with one.

I'm not saying that biotics don't know how to use an assault rifle.

I'm saying that biotics have to be concerned about their energy levels in order to use their biotics. Hence it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to have a whole unit full of them, when the very nature of the day to day business of a combat infantryman (special operations included) works against a biotic's needs. It would be much more a efficient use of your biotic personnel to have them in mixed units with the non biotics humping most of the gear, so that when reaching the objective of a mission biotics still have some gas in the tank. If you have an entire unit full of biotics you can't spread the load in a similar fashion, and if you do, you are wasting the biotics who are encumbered with more gear.

Lets say you have a twelve man squad. That squad is divided into three fire teams, each with four men each. Four of the Marines in the squad are biotics. It would be better IMO, to have that squad organized so that those four biotics are divided evenly amongst those three fire teams rather than to have all four stacked in a single team. In doing so, if that squad had to an assault an objective after a lengthy slog with full kit, you could have each biotic at their optimum performance (given the circumstances) by having the other three members on their respective fire team hump (or yomp or tab, if you're from the UK) much of their gear. A fire team organized as such where the load was spread away from the biotic is going to more combat efficient than a fire team full of foot-sore biotics who just carried 80 lbs of gear for hours before going into battle.

By gear I'm not referring to personnel weapons, though that certainly contributes to the load. I'm referring to rations (potentially several days worth), water, sleeping bags, entrenching tools (shovels), extra clothing, binoculars, first aid equipment, personal hygiene supplies, gear to clean your rifle, spare barrels for the machine gun (if applicable) and a bipod for the same (if applicable), ect., ect. Some things are likely to have changed from the era the Mass Effect universe is set in from the current day, but many of the basics carried by an infantryman would likely be the same. Ammo load has likely been reduced, but the weight of body armor would have increased slightly from the current day. And an infantryman could potentially be carrying replacement plates for that body armor, if the equipment allows for field repairs. And after ME1 they'd be carrying lots of spare thermal clips. In any case you are still looking at men and women who could be going into the field carrying a lot of extra weight.

Limiting a unit to 'biotics only' also is an inefficient use of your non-biotic personnel, in that you are now turning away a lot of excellent candidates who in at least some cases, are going to be better Marines than some of those biotics who are now serving in their stead. Rather than raise the quality of that special operations unit you've now lowered it by making the application process too restrictive. Instead of getting the best of the best from the entire Alliance, you're only getting the best of the small biotic community within the Alliance. And you're not getting enough to make that trade off worthwhile, since biotics have a limited utility. They are ideal in close quarters combat, not so much at range.

Modifié par Han Shot First, 25 janvier 2014 - 06:52 .

[Khavos]

Han Shot First wrote...
Limiting a unit to 'biotics only' also is an inefficient use of your non-biotic personnel, in that you are now turning away a lot of excellent candidates who in at least some cases, are going to be better Marines than some of those biotics who are now serving in their stead.

Well, given the existence of the 1st Special Operations Biotic Company, the Alliance appears to disagree.  Heck, that pretty much answers my question, right there - they seem to be moving towards biotic-oriented special operations groups as of ME3, anyway.  Even from the ME1 days, we know that biotics are usually funneled straight through to snake-eater stuff.

Rather than raise the quality of that special operations unit you've now lowered it by making the application process too restrictive. Instead of getting the best of the best from the entire Alliance, you're only getting the best of the small biotic community within the Alliance. And you're not getting enough to make that trade off worthwhile, since biotics have a limited utility. They are ideal in close quarters combat, not so much at range.

Biotics are at an advantage at "close quarters" - though Jack's ME3 squad suggests that's not exclusively true - and at no disadvantage at range.  Again, they'll be using the same weapons as non-biotics "at range," so it's not like a non-biotic has some inherent advantage.

Would asari commandos be regarded as the best soldiers in the galaxy by even the turians without biotic ability?  I doubt it.