a collection of links would be a good start at least, i'm looking forward to it.
also, the recently resurfaced thread here suggests, that the new vault has a CC licence, and in general permission clearly stated on each download. i guess, this will also be a good start to look for things.
but while i am here: would you give me permission, to release parts of your weapons reforged and/or CEP armor and head models (i think you are in charge of the project now, yes?) as a patch hak?
Omg, this is so awesome what you guys are doing.
Sorry for jumping into the middle of this without a clue, but where can I go to get a clue and find out how I might be able to contribute? My time and skills are very small, but every little bit helps right? I'll just read through the whole thread, but I figured I should ask first if there's someplace I should start or that has everything summed up. Time is precious after all.
Not having a clue is how many of us started with making things for NWN. 
Let's see...you could...
...make specific suggestions for content additions (with download page URLs)...
...investigate and compile creator & source page URL information for various placeables, VFXs, weapon and armor models, etc. already in the CEP (I have creature appearances done)...would need CEP 2da line numbers or model names to match to content in my documentation...I plan on generating web page tables for as much content as possible with direct links so anyone can go vote/comment on content they have an opinion on (to give creators feedback).
...post bugs in existing CEP content...
...search out or even create overhauls for CEP content that really needs it (such as some of the CCP animals or shield models that could use some attention)...
...create and post possible new CEP logo images...
...take screenshots of CEP content in play and post them to the wiki or forum...
...or if you think of something else, post your ideas/thoughts.
Thanks for your interest in helping out!
a collection of links would be a good start at least, i'm looking forward to it.
also, the recently resurfaced thread here suggests, that the new vault has a CC licence, and in general permission clearly stated on each download. i guess, this will also be a good start to look for things.
but while i am here: would you give me permission, to release parts of your weapons reforged and/or CEP armor and head models (i think you are in charge of the project now, yes?) as a patch hak?
Project Reforged: You may use the weapon models I put in the 8 public releases into your patch hak project.
CEP Armor/Head Models: You would need to get permission from the individual creator(s) of the content for redistribution, I would think.
Any idea on when this will go live?
Laz
P.S. There is no need to make it the end all be all. Folks such as myself are hungry for anything stable which adds more content, and additional room for 2.7 would fuel additional interest in furthering the project into the future.
Any idea on when this will go live?
Laz
P.S. There is no need to make it the end all be all. Folks such as myself are hungry for anything stable which adds more content, and additional room for 2.7 would fuel additional interest in furthering the project into the future.
I'm going to go out on a limb here and give an ETA on CEP 2.60 as 2-3 months from now...so sometime between mid-July (when my kids go back to school after a short summer of driving me further into insanity) and early September (when I turn 39).
After 2.60 will be 2.61, then 2.62, and onward. The next one won't be the be all end all, but it will be a damn big download (and big 2da merge job for builders and/or hak makers). It will be the first update in over 3 years, so I want to make it worth the effort.
A lot of new content (placeable and creature appearances) will be filling in "holes" in the CEP reserved ranges in the 2da files. Many of the models need compiling, some need supermodel work for animations (to cut down on files sizes), documentation needs to be recorded, documentation of existing content needs to be collected, etc.
For instance, when I added a new weapon model (a bastard sword in 4 colors), I had to make a list of the bastard sword appearance numbers used by BioWare, then the ones added by CEP, then I could decide if I needed to renumber the files for the new sword. When renumbering, I also run the models through a text editor to change the model's internal references, then compile the model for faster loading by the game. I've even gone so far as to whip up a few new inventory icons (many of the CCC weapons have just used the model 1 + color 1 numbering, probably for testing, others have an icon but just use the same one over and over and over, some were just missing icons).
Currently working on the back-end stuff of adding new content people have suggested and voted on. Once I get the current list mostly added in (I have a folder holding all the new content, as it's not yet in a hak), I'll put up polls for even more content for a couple weeks, then get to work adding that in.
I want 2.60 to be something I'd download as a builder and hak merger.
About supermodels - please correct me if I'm wrong - but I'm pretty sure once you compile a model, it makes no difference in size whether it has the animations in it's own file or in a supermodel, since they are always compiled into the file.
It's still a good practice though for many things because it assures that fixes and additions in the supermodel automatically transfers to other models.
Anyway, it all sounds great, keep it up !
<writing a thousand words...>
Note: Sword spider supermodels Giant spider. Edit: Er, the Giant Spider is supermodel for the sword spider. Hell, just look at the file sizes! :-P :-)
Edit2: Thought... on some models (notably models without anims), the compiled version is larger (about 33% in this case). What is the load time performance hit of a compiled supermodel with a dozen uncompiled children models compared to the same compiled supermodel with compiled children?
Or put another way, is it worthwhile compiling animation-less child models for load speed vs larger files? A 33% reduction in a significant portion of the hak could well be worth more than a momentary loading (once per model, not instance) lag.
<...with a jpeg quill>
Well, those file sizes suggests I'm wrong about supermodel animations being compiled into the file, since otherwise it doesn't make sense the spider giant model is so much bigger. Might be worth testing though.
Anyway, I don't know the exact performance hit, but I think it's fair to assume that there is one. And in my view, performance should almost always be prioritized higher than download size. Download size reduction by leaving those files uncompiled would also be negligible given that it'll be the small files you reduce in size.
<speaking pure...>
Well, those file sizes suggests I'm wrong about supermodel animations being compiled into the file, since otherwise it doesn't make sense the spider giant model is so much bigger. Might be worth testing though.
Anyway, I don't know the exact performance hit, but I think it's fair to assume that there is one. And in my view, performance should almost always be prioritized higher than download size. Download size reduction by leaving those files uncompiled would also be negligible given that it'll be the small files you reduce in size.
Definitely worth testing (which I do not have the time for at the mo....:-P )
However, I'd think the performance impact exactly the opposite. Disk access should be far slower than model compiling on modern CPUs. Both operations are performed once, So does the time spent loading 33% more file balance, overbalance or underbalance the time spent compiling a model?
If they balance out, then the convenience and filesize of an uncompiled mdl would tip the scales again.
<...conjecture>
Well, I ran some benchmarks on my system over the last few days using a hak with 200 models in an uncompiled state vs. the same hak with the models compiled. Load time differences at those file counts were neglible; however, it was slightly slower loading the uncompiled models. The biggest hit came with animated models - creatures.
Thus, based on my limited findings, if you increase the file count size it stands to reason that the loadtime spearation between the two state will increase as well. Keep in mind that we're talking seconds here and in a basic module that had nothing in it except a starting area built from the microset.
<nods...>
Right.
And the biggest hit was the animated models, the supermodels (even if it's a super of one).
If the *supers* are compiled (thus reducing filesize by close to half) but the non-animated child models are *not* compiled (saving filesize, again)... well, that just really appeals to me :-)
<...like he understands>
New versions of the cep2_core0 and cep2_core2 haks:
https://dl.dropboxus...2/cep2_core0.7z
https://dl.dropboxus...2/cep2_core2.7z
I've fixed a few issues and changed to using CM 3.52 (now also using "fine" snap rather than "binary", since some models relied on the larger precision).
Also, I received some fixed models from Stefan/BlackRider (dag_tnocliff1, dag_tnocliff2, nwn2merch3, nw2temple_e3) and a missing tail model from DoD (c_tailliz2) send by a person named David (don't know his forum or community name).
For the changed files alone (mainly for you, TAD):
https://dl.dropboxus...677912/core0.7z
https://dl.dropboxus...677912/core2.7z
I am a bit confused... how did we go from cep 2.4 to 2.6? Is 2.5 already out there? And if so where?
I am a bit confused... how did we go from cep 2.4 to 2.6? Is 2.5 already out there? And if so where?
2.5 was supposedly "in the works" by the previous "official CEP Team"...but nothing has been heard for nearly 2 years now (and it's been over 3 years since 2.4 was released).
When the name of a "CEP 3" was floated, many wanted to save that designation for a full restructuring of everything (hak names, adding/removing content, full modularity, and so on)...way beyond what I'm up for as a PW admin that's been building with the CEP since version 2.1. I decided that going with the 2.60 version number would be a slight jump up from whatever the old CEP Team never finished/released, but not a completely new (and incompatible) content compilation. Once the next update comes out, I'm thinking that smaller, more manageable versions will follow that won't warrant a 1/10 of a point jump (2.61, 2.62, etc.).
That makes sense. Thanks for the clarification AD.
... I've just spotted this when looking for up to date information for updating D20 Modern 2.0 and panicked.
I don't know how far you have got down the road with this as a project, or even if it will matter, but I had discussions with one point about compatibility with D20 Modern haks - in so much as trying to avoid the lines we had use for D20 so that updates were easier. The later versions of CEP 2.4 didn't manage to do that, and while a lot of what is in there wasn't a great loss to a modern setting. Is there any possibility of this for a new version?
... I've just spotted this when looking for up to date information for updating D20 Modern 2.0 and panicked.
I don't know how far you have got down the road with this as a project, or even if it will matter, but I had discussions with one point about compatibility with D20 Modern haks - in so much as trying to avoid the lines we had use for D20 so that updates were easier. The later versions of CEP 2.4 didn't manage to do that, and while a lot of what is in there wasn't a great loss to a modern setting. Is there any possibility of this for a new version?
it depends. Do you have a list of the various 2da lines you've used?
I won't be changing lines that were already in use for as of version 2.4 (so as to not break backwards compatibility with existing CEP-using projects), but anything I've worked on since then is not yet set in stone (as far as 2da lines go). I happened to have color-coded my working 2da file for 2.60, so I could easily see which ones are new/changed for this version.
If I can get a list of 2da lines used just for d20 Modern stuff, I can see what I can do about moving some things around.
If anyone is interested in seeing what lines I've altered so far, it's on the changelog on the CEP wiki (link in signature).
I've just started updating to 2.4, beginning with the clothing hak and not added anything new yet for D20 except lines for the things that clashed with D20 existing ones and I actually felt were worth making available. I can supply you a spread sheet with all the D20 lines marked, and let me know what new ones you want to use, and I can avoid them.
The other option is to compare notes as we go? I'm starting to use the forum on the Neverwintervault.org site for developments, in fact that's how I learned this is happening, so we can probably arrange to communicate there?
I've just started updating to 2.4, beginning with the clothing hak and not added anything new yet for D20 except lines for the things that clashed with D20 existing ones and I actually felt were worth making available. I can supply you a spread sheet with all the D20 lines marked, and let me know what new ones you want to use, and I can avoid them.
The other option is to compare notes as we go? I'm starting to use the forum on the Neverwintervault.org site for developments, in fact that's how I learned this is happening, so we can probably arrange to communicate there?
New Vault, here, either way works, since I use both forums (and the CEP forum, and the CEP wiki, and email, and...).
If you can send me a list of lines you've already used in the various 2das, I can most likely avoid those lines (if they don't already have CEP 2.4 content there). Otherwise, what I've been doing is filling in "holes" that haven't been used in the CEP reserved ranges. The only thing I've done outside of the reserved ranges is for portraits.2da, where the old range got filled up...I added 6000 lines of "user" padding, then marked another range as reserved for CEP.
Thanks for that AD. As I've tried to make my stuff compatible with the CEP (exception visualeffects.2da) I appreciate you not using the user slots.
TR
Tonight I whipped up a few shields that could possibly replace/overhaul some older shield models. These are currently just large shields, but they'll do for a demo. The work on these wouldn't be done in time for version 2.60, but once I got started would make relatively quick work for perhaps 2.61 (since after the first few, it's usually just retexturing the updated models with brand new custom textures).
Let me know what you think on starting this kind of work. Here's a link to a poll and three proof of concept toolset screenshots.
As a fan of the late Anne McCaffrey's Pern Stories I wonder if the following wall shields (i.e. mounted on wall, not actual practical ones) and plaques could be made for the CEP (i.e. made by someone other than me).
The holds of the Northern Continent
Southern Hold
Weyrs of the Northern Continent
Southern Weyr
The Craft Halls
All the above images can be downloaded at full size by clicking on them.
TR
Hi all!
Great job! Any news? And what about merge with Project Q 2.0?
CEP 2.61 is available at Neverwinter Vault.
http://neverwintervault.org/cep
FP!
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