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[XxPrincess(x)ThreatxX]

dreamgazer wrote...

ag99 wrote...

Funny, if they didn't "try to please and/or have fanservice" you guys would probably still cry about not having playable races and other stuff just sayin...

Seeing as how different playable races were a strength in DA:O that was abandoned in DA2, I wouldn't really call that "fanservice".  The addition of the qunari could, potentially, fall in that category.  We'll have to see. 

Multiple races where mostly pointless in DA:O since the warden was treated as a human apart from the origin stories & a occasional dialog change

[Br3admax]

Threat300 wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

ag99 wrote...

Funny, if they didn't "try to please and/or have fanservice" you guys would probably still cry about not having playable races and other stuff just sayin...

Seeing as how different playable races were a strength in DA:O that was abandoned in DA2, I wouldn't really call that "fanservice".  The addition of the qunari could, potentially, fall in that category.  We'll have to see. 

Multiple races where mostly pointless in DA:O since the warden was treated as a human apart from the origin stories & a occasional dialog change

Multiple races were pointless because well over half the fan base ignored them. 

Modifié par Br3ad, 15 janvier 2014 - 08:40 .

[Adela]

I wouldn't really say they were COMPLETELY pointless tho, as it DID gave the game some re-playability and it did had *some* extra options within the dialog and somewhat the story, that said I usually play as a human my self but after I'm bored with that I like to try out other races to see how the story plays out.

[In Exile]

EntropicAngel wrote...

Multiple races were a tremendous, tremendous roleplaying benefit. The story reactivity is unnecessary.

It is when the setting has clear racial lines in it, which in DA:O was an elf-exclusive problem. Dwarves are a different race but humans are pretty open-minded when it comes to then. Elves, though? Much racial inequality that's ignored. The alienage has fiats that elves bearing weapons will be executed, and you're potentially walking around with multiple sets and no one cares. That's bad. 

Similarly with the deference you're getting, often not even as a GW from people that otherwise actually show off a bit of racism and/or classism. 

[Fast Jimmy]

^

Reactivity is a hard, but admirable goal. Not just to race, but to as many choices and decisions as possible.

That being said, the option to make a choice, even one as big as race, is something I'd rather have and not have the game properly react to than to not have the choice at all.

[Ryzaki]

In Exile wrote...

EntropicAngel wrote...

Multiple races were a tremendous, tremendous roleplaying benefit. The story reactivity is unnecessary.

It is when the setting has clear racial lines in it, which in DA:O was an elf-exclusive problem. Dwarves are a different race but humans are pretty open-minded when it comes to then. Elves, though? Much racial inequality that's ignored. The alienage has fiats that elves bearing weapons will be executed, and you're potentially walking around with multiple sets and no one cares. That's bad. Similarly with the deference you're getting, often not even as a GW from people that otherwise actually show off a bit of racism and/or classism. 

Well your character is either a walking nuke or walking armory with several armed people behind him/her. Even racists have some measure of self preservation. Not a good idea to ****** off the person who could kill you without blinking an eye and no one will jump to your defense least they get cut down themselves.

It's one thing if it's an untrained elf and you have a horde of guards behind you but in DAO those guards have more important things to deal with and it's not worth getting themselves killed over some idiot peasant that doesn't know to shut up and avert their eyes.

As for the elves in the alienage why would they say anything? either they know you or they're making an enemy of someone unnecessarily. In the origin the woman throwing you under the bus makes sense but otherwise you go in their armed, kill a bunch of tevinter mages and they're going to try to start something...why exactly?

Modifié par Ryzaki, 15 janvier 2014 - 11:26 .

[CybAnt1]

Since this is a meta-thread, let me just make a meta-observation, rather than derailing into the more specific topic of playable races.

I understand and accept that a problem in writing games is audiences who hold differing expectations. That's neither good nor bad, I'm training myself to avoid stereotyping those audiences as I've done in the past.

Some play on console, some on PC/Mac. Different expectations.
Some have played pen-and-paper RPGs before, and other CRPGS, before the DA series; some have not. Different expectations.
Some want it to be like other current CRPGs (Witcher, Skyrim, MMOs, ... etc, etc.). Some don't. Different expectations.

Yes, we need to be careful hurling epithets at each other. "Console gamer!" "Casual!" Etc.

... we could go on.

Personally, the closest you can come is a toggle switch between possibilities. Here's what I mean by that. There are people who refuse to play anything that isn't as hard and unforgiving as possible, so the game has a Nightmare setting. (And yes, I know for many, it's still not hard enough.) There are others who prioritize story over combat, and really are not that big into challenge, so they put it on Easy. And, of course, there is a range in between.

Wherever possible, I think it's a good design decision to have sliders. By that, I mean where possible, allow people to adjust the game to their tastes and expectations. You may not be able to please everybody and I definitely agree you shouldn't try, but sometimes with warring gaming factions it's possible there are valid points on both sides, and reasons to accommodate both views. There is a way to try and do that.

I also, of course, recognize that a) costs extra time, money, and resources (the infamous "zots") and can't be done with some things, at least given current development tools and the need to be on multiple platforms and etc etc etc.

Oh and BTW I know the game's mostly done, so this is just philosophizing.

[CybAnt1]

Well, that's the weird thing, to get specific.

It's the perfect example of a toggle state, with nobody being forced to accommodate another group's preferences.

By that, I mean, if you hate multiple playable races, you can of course always play human and ignore the existence of others. And if you like them, you have the choice.

I kinda think that's what we can call a win-win for two audiences.

[Darth Death]

Too late.

[Ziegrif]

I say poke the fans with a stick and see if hornets come out to play.

[TeamLexana]

CybAnt1 wrote...

Well, that's the weird thing, to get specific.

It's the perfect example of a toggle state, with nobody being forced to accommodate another group's preferences.

By that, I mean, if you hate multiple playable races, you can of course always play human and ignore the existence of others. And if you like them, you have the choice.

I kinda think that's what we can call a win-win for two audiences.

Well you would think so but fans are weird peeps. It's like if they know there is someone out there somewhere doing something in a game they don't like that it personally offends them and it needs to be removed even if whatever that person is doing has zero effect on how they play the game.

[Ninja Stan]

I think BioWare will make the game they want to make, as they always have, regardless of whether it pleases every fan or not. Not that pleasing every fan is ever a possibility for any game or developer. Or any product, ever. This is not a productive discussion topic.

End of line.