121 réponses à ce sujet

[Daemul]

CronoDragoon wrote...

I find Priority Earth to be enjoyable. More customization based on choices would have been nice but I understand they were running out of time.

The final dialogues are fantastic.

YES! Another one! We are growing. Welcome brother. 

Modifié par Daemul, 16 janvier 2014 - 05:50 .

[AlanC9]

CronoDragoon wrote...

I find Priority Earth to be enjoyable. More customization based on choices would have been nice but I understand they were running out of time.

The final dialogues are fantastic.

Sometimes I think the real problem with Priority:Earth is just that ruined London is so ugly. ME1's Final Battle is pretty much the same thing, but doesn't get anything like the same response.

[von uber]

AlanC9 wrote...

Sometimes I think the real problem with Priority:Earth is just that ruined London is so ugly.

You should try living here

I found Priority Earth to be a dull grind fest in the main. Especially the random turret bit, what was that all about.
Thought the Beam run onwards was ok, although it is basically an interactive cutscene.

[AlanC9]

Right. But ME1's Final Battle was a dull grind fest too. Except that it ends with one or two easy boss fights, while ME3 ends with some fairly challenging horde mode.

Modifié par AlanC9, 17 janvier 2014 - 12:46 .

[von uber]

The ME1 final battle was a more interesting setting I felt (they should have made much more of the London setting). But yes, also a grind.

[Iakus]

Nothing beats walking up the side of the Citadel, and seeing Sovereign looming in the distance.

[GimmeDaGun]

iakus wrote...

Nothing beats walking up the side of the Citadel, and seeing Sovereign looming in the distance.

Now it really starts to get cold in hell. I have to agree with you again. 

My favourit ending sequence was of ME1: Ilos+Vigil (even if a deus ex machina) + the spectacle of Souverign while fighting your way up the Citadel tower + the battle of the Citadel and the confrontation of Saren with the decision that you have to make, all make it the best ending sequence of all three games for me. I disliked the robo-Saren boss fight though and the way you had to choose between Anderson (the obvious) and Udina (the politician). That choice shouldn't have been a choise at all but the result of some different factors from the game itself.

...and here hell might go infernally hot again... 

To me the second favourit is the EC ending of ME3. I will not elaborate this time. I'd rather write about what I would have made differently and did not like about it.

Priority Earth wasn't what I expected. I did not expect a second suicide misson (I am not so overfond of the ME2 ending and the SM which has nothing suicidal about it), but instead of the regular slaughterhouse in the ruined streets of London we got, I expected an apocalyptic and infernal battle between the galactic forces and the reapers. I expected a maze of blood, gore, explosions and character moments where some (not all or too many) of the previous decisions could have payed off and some of the collected war assets could have been seen in actual action. I wanted to see (more like be in the middle of) one desperate and hopless but heroic push against the invincible and overwhelming enemy. Imagine: sorrounded by reaper capital ships and destroyers, buildings falling, guns blazing, platoons get decimated, fighter ships flying, fighting and crashing, people screaming etc.... and then get to the reaper holochaust device (the "conduit") sorrounded by piles (towers) of corpses, seeing processisng ships unloading their horrifying cargo etc.. I wanted to fight indoctrinated civilians and Alliance soldiers among the reaper forces also.

I also would have done the whole sequence where you face down Harbinger differently (not a boss fight... no way). 

The space battle: more cutscenes and more variety of cutscenes depending on your EMS and the major war assetts.

I would have made the whole Citadel sequence longer as well, showing more of the horrors of the reapers. Otherwise I enjoyed the lead up to the ending sequence and the ending itself. As for the Catalyst, well I just can't get my head around the creative decision which made the essence of the reapers, the ghost in the machine if you like represented by the kid Shepard sees dying on Earht. Out of all options, why this. It had so much more potential. I don't have a problem with the "character" itself, but its presentation. Why is that kid so importat to Shepard that the "Guardian" chooses to use his image when talking to Shepard.

As for ME2's ending. It's a nice little ending, but nothing special. I found the whole suicide mission quite dull. You have to really suck at the game if you want to see a real suicide mission. If you took your time and enjoyed the game, it is a cakewalk. All of the decisions (picking "experts") are nobrainers really. The level desing of the Collector base was boring and less creepy than the Collector ship. I dislike the design of the baby-reaper and the silly boss-fight with it. The decision at the end had potential, but was not very well thought out and those who still trusted Cerberus and TIM at that point obviously never payed attention during the game. That decision was a nobrainer again. Also it's a shame that the whole game is basically about this very last mission and when it comes to it, it does not deliver really. There were much harder and better battles before the Collector base. Anyway, it's my least favourit of the three.

Modifié par GimmeDaGun, 16 janvier 2014 - 09:01 .

[CronoDragoon]

GimmeDaGun wrote...
Why is that kid so importat to Shepard that the "Guardian" chooses to use his image when talking to Shepard.

Well, the kid is what Shepard's subconscious has associated with death and sacrifice associated with victory. So thematically it makes sense.

That being said I think it would be more approriate from an in-game perspective for the Catalyst to simply speak through the Avina VI.

[GimmeDaGun]

CronoDragoon wrote...

GimmeDaGun wrote...
Why is that kid so importat to Shepard that the "Guardian" chooses to use his image when talking to Shepard.

Well, the kid is what Shepard's subconscious has associated with death and sacrifice associated with victory. So thematically it makes sense.

That being said I think it would be more approriate from an in-game perspective for the Catalyst to simply speak through the Avina VI.

Oh, I got that. Getting it is not my problem. My problem is that death and sacrafice could have been associated with (from Shepard's perspecitve) so many other things which would have made a lot more sense. 

Technically it was ok, that the Guardian chose something that was a soft spot of Shepard's subconscious. My problem is that the kid is that soft spot and not something else. Something from Shepard's past maybe or whatever. I have creative issues with it, not so much technical.

Avina would have been a baaaad decision. 

[CronoDragoon]

GimmeDaGun wrote...
Oh, I got that. Getting it is not my problem. My problem is that death and sacrafice could have been associated with (from Shepard's perspecitve) so many other things which would have made a lot more sense. 

Technically it was ok, that the Guardian chose something that was a soft spot of Shepard's subconscious. My problem is that the kid is that soft spot and not something else. Something from Shepard's past maybe or whatever. I have creative issues with it, not so much technical.

Avina would have been a baaaad decision. 

Can you give me an example of something you'd prefer instead of the kid? Not that I think the kid's awesome or anything, just curious.

Modifié par CronoDragoon, 16 janvier 2014 - 08:39 .

[GimmeDaGun]

CronoDragoon wrote...

GimmeDaGun wrote...
Oh, I got that. Getting it is not my problem. My problem is that death and sacrafice could have been associated with (from Shepard's perspecitve) so many other things which would have made a lot more sense. 

Technically it was ok, that the Guardian chose something that was a soft spot of Shepard's subconscious. My problem is that the kid is that soft spot and not something else. Something from Shepard's past maybe or whatever. I have creative issues with it, not so much technical.

Avina would have been a baaaad decision. 

Can you give me an example of something you'd prefer instead of the kid? Not that I think the kid's awesome or anything, just curious.

I'm not a creative mind, so please don't laugh... and these are just some ideas from the top of my head.



Toombs for sole survivor Shepard
Spacer Shepard's mother
Torfan Shepard: Major Kyle
Virmire hero for all Shepards.
A batarian slaver for Colony kid Shepard.
Dead squadmates. 
TIM, Anderson Saren (all dead by then)
Members representing sacraficed races depending on your previous decisions: Rachni queen, Wrex, Legion
Shepard's love.
Hell, even some of Shepard's most important friends (I think the game monitors who are the most prefered characters).
etc. etc. etc. 

I would have made the Guardian choose these options (important people form Shepard's past and present...characters who define your personal Shepard) and shift between them just like the Leviathan did in the dlc. It would have made the Guardian look a lot more powerful and terrifying being who can see right through Shepard's mind and this way would try to confuse him or emotionally compromise him. Something like indoctrination, but a lot more subtle. 

I know that it would be a programmer's nightmare (because of the different permutations) and that it woud cost a lot more... but I hope you get the idea. 

Modifié par GimmeDaGun, 16 janvier 2014 - 09:31 .

[Sion1138]

CronoDragoon wrote...

GimmeDaGun wrote...
Why is that kid so importat to Shepard that the "Guardian" chooses to use his image when talking to Shepard.

Well, the kid is what Shepard's subconscious has associated with death and sacrifice associated with victory. So thematically it makes sense.

That being said I think it would be more approriate from an in-game perspective for the Catalyst to simply speak through the Avina VI.

What that says to me is:

Shepard is not your character, you have no control over their definition and this is not a role-playing game.

I didn't care about the kid. Nobody cared.

Modifié par Sion1138, 16 janvier 2014 - 09:12 .

[MattFini]

AlanC9 wrote...

CronoDragoon wrote...

I find Priority Earth to be enjoyable. More customization based on choices would have been nice but I understand they were running out of time.

The final dialogues are fantastic.

Sometimes I think the real problem with Priority:Earth is just that ruined London is so ugly. ME1's Final Battle is pretty much the same thing, but doesn't get anything like the same response.

Yes, but the difference is that the game in between those two had a pretty satisfying end run. No matter how superficial it all was (do a loyalty quest = survival, for the most part), it still utilized everyone in a convicning way that gave them all a function (even if that function was guarding a door, etc.). 

Priority: Earth should have at least offered something like that. Divide your squad to do various things, etc. It's just not convicning that all hands wouldn't be on deck after ME2 raised the bar for that very thing.

As you said, Priority: Earth is also pretty bland and ugly. I can forgive that, though. I actually find it pretty boring, and that's a bigger bummer. 

Modifié par MattFini, 16 janvier 2014 - 10:57 .

[BaladasDemnevanni]

AlanC9 wrote...

Right. But ME1's Final Battle was a dull grind fest too. Except that it ends with one or two easy boss fights, while ME3 adds with some fairly challenging horde mode.

Can't say I agree with this. Aside from that image of Shepard + squad-mates in freefall with Sovereign in the background, ME1 has the advantage of bringing us back to familiar, if scarred territory which adds a level of intrigue. Seeing Avina after the Citadel is attacked, for example.  

Modifié par BaladasDemnevanni, 16 janvier 2014 - 11:19 .

[sTkrZX5]

Daemul wrote...

CronoDragoon wrote...

I find Priority Earth to be enjoyable. More customization based on choices would have been nice but I understand they were running out of time.

The final dialogues are fantastic.

YES! Another one! We are growing. Welcome brother. 

Count me in as well!  For as much as people are criticizing the setting and missed opportunities with the storytelling of this mission, the actual gameplay was superb.  I'd go so far as to say that the "Horde-mode" style battle at the end of the mission is one of the best slices of combat in the whole series.  If you disagree with me on that, reply and let me know which battles you thought were better, because only a couple are coming to mind at the moment.

[AlanC9]

MattFini wrote...

Yes, but the difference is that the game in between those two had a pretty satisfying end run. No matter how superficial it all was (do a loyalty quest = survival, for the most part), it still utilized everyone in a convicning way that gave them all a function (even if that function was guarding a door, etc.). 

I was talking about ME1, not ME2.

Modifié par AlanC9, 17 janvier 2014 - 12:56 .

[AlanC9]

BaladasDemnevanni wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

Right. But ME1's Final Battle was a dull grind fest too. Except that it ends with one or two easy boss fights, while ME3 adds with some fairly challenging horde mode.

Can't say I agree with this. Aside from that image of Shepard + squad-mates in freefall with Sovereign in the background, ME1 has the advantage of bringing us back to familiar, if scarred territory which adds a level of intrigue. Seeing Avina after the Citadel is attacked, for example.  

That's not actually an objection to describing ME1's mission as a grind fest. It might be an objection to describing it as dull, though. London isn't familiar territory, aye. 

[sTkrZX5]

Deager wrote...

I'm glad you enjoyed the game and largely the ending. That's awesome.

I read somewhere that they really had a great opportunity for the catalyst. Either Kaidan or Ash; whichever had died on Virmire. That seemed like a great idea. Not that Harbinger himself is a bad idea either.

You know, that sounds like an awesome idea and one that I never even considered.  It makes perfect sense actually, because while Bioware tried to make the child the symbol of death and sacrifice in the war, Kaiden/Ashley was the first significant casualty in Shepard's story and one that was continually referenced in some of the dialogue in the subsequent games, particularly with Garrus in ME3 and Liara somewhere I believe.

[sTkrZX5]

@VonUber  Yeah that turret sequence was totally random but I thought it was fun lol.

@AlanC9  Don’t agree with you there, I thought ME1’s final level had a really exciting sense of urgency to it and also had some awesome long-range combat, especially the areas where you could go nuts with the sniper rifle. And Robo-Saren was pretty awesome, even if the fight was a bit easy.

@Iacus  Totally agree, seeing Sovereign hovering above the Citadel made the Reapers look so imposing that you felt like an ant for most of that level!

Modifié par sTkrZX5, 17 janvier 2014 - 01:14 .

[sTkrZX5]

GimmeDaGun wrote...


Priority Earth wasn't what I expected. I did not expect a second suicide misson (I am not so overfond of the ME2 ending and the SM which has nothing suicidal about it), but instead of the regular slaughterhouse in the ruined streets of London we got, I expected an apocalyptic and infernal battle between the galactic forces and the reapers. I expected a maze of blood, gore, explosions and character moments where some (not all or too many) of the previous decisions could have payed off and some of the collected war assets could have been seen in actual action. I wanted to see (more like be in the middle of) one desperate and hopless but heroic push against the invincible and overwhelming enemy. Imagine: sorrounded by reaper capital ships and destroyers, buildings falling, guns blazing, platoons get decimated, fighter ships flying, fighting and crashing, people screaming etc.... and then get to the reaper holochaust device (the "conduit") sorrounded by piles (towers) of corpses, seeing processisng ships unloading their horrifying cargo etc.. I wanted to fight indoctrinated civilians and Alliance soldiers among the reaper forces also.

I really like some of your ideas and I totally agree with your opinions about both ME1 and ME2's final levels, except that I really liked the Robo-Saren boss battle.

However, I think your ideas about how ME3 should have finished up may be a bit unrealistic.  Don't get me wrong, they look and sound awesome on paper, but I feel like there were significant technology limitations that would have prevented Bioware from being able to render a large number of Reapers, spaceships, and human AI in the play-space at the same time.

Take for instance how during each Reaper encounter (London, Tuchanka, Rannoch, Thessia, etc.) Shepard is always walking around a very small playable area completely separate from where the Reaper is located (ex: London, Thessia) or is only able to have interaction with said Reaper in a very pre-scripted manner (ex: Tuchanka, Rannoch).  Given the apparent tech limitations of the ME3 graphics engine based on my sample size of the prior levels, I don't believe Bioware would have been able to fill the last level with so much of the chaos to produce the appropriate effect you described unless most of it was handled in the distant background.

Still, I really like your ideas but I think they'd have to wait till the next gen!

[MattFini]

AlanC9 wrote...

MattFini wrote...

Yes, but the difference is that the game in between those two had a pretty satisfying end run. No matter how superficial it all was (do a loyalty quest = survival, for the most part), it still utilized everyone in a convicning way that gave them all a function (even if that function was guarding a door, etc.). 

I was talking about ME1, not ME2.

I know you were. And I'm saying that there's no way to go back once the bar has been raised without looking lazy. 

Modifié par MattFini, 17 janvier 2014 - 01:34 .

[AlanC9]

Gotcha. I misread the post.

I'm starting to thnk that the SM was a huge mistake.

Modifié par AlanC9, 17 janvier 2014 - 01:51 .

[Gold Dragon]

CronoDragoon wrote...

GimmeDaGun wrote...
Oh, I got that. Getting it is not my problem. My problem is that death and sacrafice could have been associated with (from Shepard's perspecitve) so many other things which would have made a lot more sense. 

Technically it was ok, that the Guardian chose something that was a soft spot of Shepard's subconscious. My problem is that the kid is that soft spot and not something else. Something from Shepard's past maybe or whatever. I have creative issues with it, not so much technical.

Avina would have been a baaaad decision. 

Can you give me an example of something you'd prefer instead of the kid? Not that I think the kid's awesome or anything, just curious.

Whomever was left behind on Virmire should have been how the Catalyst appeared and sounded.  IMO.

EDIT: OT, Priority: Earth wasn't that bad, but it wasn't all that good, either.  Same with the Ending.

Modifié par A Golden Dragon, 17 janvier 2014 - 02:13 .

[GimmeDaGun]

sTkrZX5 wrote...

GimmeDaGun wrote...


Priority Earth wasn't what I expected. I did not expect a second suicide misson (I am not so overfond of the ME2 ending and the SM which has nothing suicidal about it), but instead of the regular slaughterhouse in the ruined streets of London we got, I expected an apocalyptic and infernal battle between the galactic forces and the reapers. I expected a maze of blood, gore, explosions and character moments where some (not all or too many) of the previous decisions could have payed off and some of the collected war assets could have been seen in actual action. I wanted to see (more like be in the middle of) one desperate and hopless but heroic push against the invincible and overwhelming enemy. Imagine: sorrounded by reaper capital ships and destroyers, buildings falling, guns blazing, platoons get decimated, fighter ships flying, fighting and crashing, people screaming etc.... and then get to the reaper holochaust device (the "conduit") sorrounded by piles (towers) of corpses, seeing processisng ships unloading their horrifying cargo etc.. I wanted to fight indoctrinated civilians and Alliance soldiers among the reaper forces also.

I really like some of your ideas and I totally agree with your opinions about both ME1 and ME2's final levels, except that I really liked the Robo-Saren boss battle.

However, I think your ideas about how ME3 should have finished up may be a bit unrealistic.  Don't get me wrong, they look and sound awesome on paper, but I feel like there were significant technology limitations that would have prevented Bioware from being able to render a large number of Reapers, spaceships, and human AI in the play-space at the same time.

Take for instance how during each Reaper encounter (London, Tuchanka, Rannoch, Thessia, etc.) Shepard is always walking around a very small playable area completely separate from where the Reaper is located (ex: London, Thessia) or is only able to have interaction with said Reaper in a very pre-scripted manner (ex: Tuchanka, Rannoch).  Given the apparent tech limitations of the ME3 graphics engine based on my sample size of the prior levels, I don't believe Bioware would have been able to fill the last level with so much of the chaos to produce the appropriate effect you described unless most of it was handled in the distant background.

Still, I really like your ideas but I think they'd have to wait till the next gen!

Yes, I'm aware of the restraints of the last-generation (can I say that already?) consoles and of the engine itself, but since I'm a PC player myself, usually I see things through the "no-restraints really" glasses when it comes to games. If ME 3 was a PC game, it could have been done the way I described it, but it is a multiplatform one. 

Actually I can image a complete remake of the whole trilogy in a decade or two with a new engine, less technical restraints, re-imagined and somewhat rewritten characters and story (with a multilinear c&c system implamented).

Actually there are quite a few good old games I want to see remade (if not totally rewritten). Games like the Thief-trilogy, Outcast etc..

[CronoDragoon]

Sion1138 wrote...
Shepard is not your character, you have no control over their definition and this is not a role-playing game.

I didn't care about the kid. Nobody cared.

By definition you can't control your subconscious. It doesn't even matter if you didn't care about the kid because in the game he functions as a symbol for everyone else in the galaxy that is dying. If your Shepard doesn't care about that then I have no sympathy for the way you role-play your Shepard. It sounds super boring.