121 réponses à ce sujet

[Iakus]

Eterna5 wrote...

There is nothing more tantalizing than having fanfic delivered by shoddy fan voice acting. 

That's the beauty of choice.  You can choose not to install it, and you don't have to worry about anyone going SO BE IT!!! 

You can have your own artistic ending.  ANd I can have my own entertaining ending.  Everyone's a winner!!!

If only Bioware learned that lesson.

[CroGamer002]

sTkrZX5 wrote...

To start, I felt that the game’s last mission on Earth was one of the best of the entire series. 

Aaaaaaaaaaaaand you lost me there, OP.

[CronoDragoon]

iakus wrote...

The scene wasn't clear for a lot of people.  The scene didn't provide the closure people sought.  That's on Bioware.

A lot of people being like 5 people on the BSN? A lot of people didn't like the scene but not because they actually thought Shepard was dead.

[SpamBot2000]

Eterna5 wrote...

Not really. It is too fan wanky for me. I didn't really adore the citadel dlc for that reason. 

Well, if you say so. Still, for me, there is a difference between attempting to craft an ending that makes more sense than... that thing they released and selling a self-parody as a substitute... ah well.

[AlanC9]

iakus wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

iakus wrote...

It's dishonest to take the deliberately vague scene we were left with even after promises of "clarity and closure" at face value? 

It's dishonest if you know better. You do know better., even if you sometimes pretend not to.

Intentions are pointless if it doesn't get the point across.  Clearly they failed at that for a lot of people.  To put the fault on the audience for Bioware's failure to follow through on their own promise is...disingenuous.

I wasn't talking about "the audience." I was talking about you. You've often admitted that you know what the scene means, even if you pretend to  forget that for rhetorical purposes on occasion.

Modifié par AlanC9, 17 janvier 2014 - 09:56 .

[sTkrZX5]

Mesina2 wrote...

Aaaaaaaaaaaaand you lost me there, OP.

Haha fair enough, do you at least agree with my Catalyst idea?

[Sion1138]

AlanC9 wrote...

iakus wrote...

It's dishonest to take the deliberately vague scene we were left with even after promises of "clarity and closure" at face value? 

It's dishonest if you know better. You do know better., even if you sometimes pretend not to.

You must have missed the part where I said that I did every major mission, had the Krogan, geth and Quarian fleets and troops, and only missed a few fetch quests but my character still died.

The fact that you get a 10 second cinematic only at what is practically the maximum score, tells me that this scene is an afterthought. Something hastily put together at the last minute.

[Iakus]

AlanC9 wrote...

iakus wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

iakus wrote...

It's dishonest to take the deliberately vague scene we were left with even after promises of "clarity and closure" at face value? 

It's dishonest if you know better. You do know better., even if you sometimes pretend not to.

Intentions are pointless if it doesn't get the point across.  Clearly they failed at that for a lot of people.  To put the fault on the audience for Bioware's failure to follow through on their own promise is...disingenuous.

I wasn't talking about "the audience." I was talking about you. You've often admitted that you know what the scene means, even if you pretend to  forget that for rhetorical purposes on occasion.

Yes, I know what the scene is supposed to mean.  But like I said, what it's supposed to mean is irrelevant.  What it conveys is what matters.  And that's what I am trying (fruitlessly, it seems) to show.

[Almostfaceman]

CronoDragoon wrote...

iakus wrote...

The scene wasn't clear for a lot of people.  The scene didn't provide the closure people sought.  That's on Bioware.

A lot of people being like 5 people on the BSN? A lot of people didn't like the scene but not because they actually thought Shepard was dead.

Kinda talking out of your butt on that one, there was a lot more people confused about it (in my experience) AND the commentary from Bioware didn't help clarify the matter. Speculation for Everyone! 

Modifié par Almostfaceman, 17 janvier 2014 - 10:44 .

[Dean_the_Young]

iakus wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

iakus wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

iakus wrote...

It's dishonest to take the deliberately vague scene we were left with even after promises of "clarity and closure" at face value? 

It's dishonest if you know better. You do know better., even if you sometimes pretend not to.

Intentions are pointless if it doesn't get the point across.  Clearly they failed at that for a lot of people.  To put the fault on the audience for Bioware's failure to follow through on their own promise is...disingenuous.

I wasn't talking about "the audience." I was talking about you. You've often admitted that you know what the scene means, even if you pretend to  forget that for rhetorical purposes on occasion.

Yes, I know what the scene is supposed to mean.  But like I said, what it's supposed to mean is irrelevant.  What it conveys is what matters.  And that's what I am trying (fruitlessly, it seems) to show.

Yeah, that's not really a defense against the deliberate dishonesty thing. You certainly play dumb and claim otherwise quite frequently, along with your general tendency to take rhetorical hyperbole to the realm of blatant lies and falsification in order to avoid an argument you're losing.

Which is sad because your frequent use and reliance on hyperbole and non-literal rhetorical devices creates a hypocritical dissonance between your claimed position and your means of arguing it. Given your tendency for deliberate vagueness and non-literalism when justifying a position, if we were to take you at face value you would be either a serial liar or just inept.

Fortunately, we don't insist on taking you on face value when we understand what your message were supposed to mean.

Modifié par Dean_the_Young, 18 janvier 2014 - 12:13 .

[Vigilant111]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Yeah, that's not really a defense against the deliberate dishonesty thing. You certainly play dumb and claim otherwise quite frequently, along with your general tendency to take rhetorical hyperbole to the realm of blatant lies and falsification in order to avoid an argument you're losing.

Which is sad because your frequent use and reliance on hyperbole and non-literal rhetorical devices creates a hypocritical dissonance between your claimed position and your means of arguing it. Given your tendency for deliberate vagueness and non-literalism when justifying a position, if we were to take you at face value you would be either a serial liar or just inept.

Fortunately, we don't insist on taking you on face value when we understand what your message were supposed to mean.

I am just skimming through the page and I am assuming you and several others are talking about the breath scene? To my understanding there has been some ambiguity concerning what the breath scene conveys. It is probable that iakus was making suggestions (or simply just expressing his grievances) to the writers of how to make the underlying idea pertaining to the breath scene more succinct. It isn't really about whether the audience has the intellectual capacity to draw inference on their own. I don't think iakus was playing dumb as he already admits he understood the ostensible meaning of the scene, but that the breath scene could be made better to suit gamers who value the survival of Shepard. As with "deliberate dishonesty", well, it is just some passionate venting from a dissatisfied customer, you need not to get all personal about it

Modifié par Vigilant111, 18 janvier 2014 - 12:46 .

[Iakus]

Vigilant111 wrote...

I am just skimming through the page and I am assuming you and several others are talking about the breath scene? To my understanding there has been some ambiguity concerning what the breath scene conveys. It is probable that iakus was making suggestions (or simply just expressing his grievances) to the writers of how to make the underlying idea pertaining to the breath scene more succinct. It isn't really about whether the audience has the intellectual capacity to draw inference on their own. I don't think iakus was playing dumb as he already admits he understood the ostensible meaning of the scene, but that the breath scene could be made better to suit gamers who value the survival of Shepard. As with "deliberate dishonesty", well, it is just some passionate venting from a dissatisfied customer, you need not to get all personal about it

Eh, I'm used to people launching personal attacks on me.  Comes with the territory in the BSN

Kinda surprised to see it from Dean_the_Young though.  Expected better from him.

[Dean_the_Young]

Vigilant111 wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Yeah, that's not really a defense against the deliberate dishonesty thing. You certainly play dumb and claim otherwise quite frequently, along with your general tendency to take rhetorical hyperbole to the realm of blatant lies and falsification in order to avoid an argument you're losing.

Which is sad because your frequent use and reliance on hyperbole and non-literal rhetorical devices creates a hypocritical dissonance between your claimed position and your means of arguing it. Given your tendency for deliberate vagueness and non-literalism when justifying a position, if we were to take you at face value you would be either a serial liar or just inept.

Fortunately, we don't insist on taking you on face value when we understand what your message were supposed to mean.

I am just skimming through the page and I am assuming you and several others are talking about the breath scene? To my understanding there has been some ambiguity concerning what the breath scene conveys. It is probable that iakus was making suggestions (or simply just expressing his grievances) to the writers of how to make the underlying idea pertaining to the breath scene more succinct. It isn't really about whether the audience has the intellectual capacity to draw inference on their own. I don't think iakus was playing dumb as he already admits he understood the ostensible meaning of the scene, but that the breath scene could be made better to suit gamers who value the survival of Shepard. As with "deliberate dishonesty", well, it is just some passionate venting from a dissatisfied customer, you need not to get all personal about it

Not personal, this is just the topic that has lost him a respect over the last two years. Most any other topic Iakus is a honest and productive contributer, but come the endings he's actively dishonest in order to grind his axe.

If it were 'some passionate venting,' I'd not pay it a second thought. Venting is cathartic. Venting is also temporary: you vent, and then you move on. But this isn't temporary: this is just iakus in a rut. Iakus presents an exagerated claim or misrepresented quote as fact (such as the recent claim of devs promising countless endings), iakus gets challenged, iakus backpeddles and concedes before doing the exact some thing three hours later. Or, in some cases, three pages later.

This isn't even new. Iakus has been doing this for the better part of a year and a half now, and is still making the same sorts of deliberate false exagerations for the same reasons.

What's the word for someone who continually, despite correction and admission of fault, continues to deliberatly spread false statements? 

'White House Press Secretary.'

But also, liar.

Alan and I and others have called him out on this for months. This isn't the first time he's been called out, and it won't be the last. Nothing new here at all.

Modifié par Dean_the_Young, 18 janvier 2014 - 02:51 .

[Iakus]

Geez, Dean, I had no idea we were running against each other for political office.

Do I eat puppies too? Don't hold back on my account.

Oh,, wait, I'm exaggerating again. My bad.

Now if we're actually going to debate a point. Go on, tell me why I'm wrong about the breath scene.

[voteDC]

For me the breath scene wasn't clear on Shepard's fate.

Corpses can take a 'breath', so that isn't necessarily a sign of life.

Assuming for the moment though that Shepard did live, then he/she was already suffering massive injuries prior to meeting the Catalyst.

Add in any injury or wound suffered from the tube explosion and Citadel going boom, and the chances of Shepard surviving beyond that breath are pretty damn slim. In fact I'd say the odds are greatly on the dead soon side.

You could take the scene as a moment of hope but it really isn't hard to see it as the last moments of life of someone dying alone.

Bioware weren't clear with that scene.

[themikefest]

sTkrZX5 wrote...

         To start, I felt that the game’s last mission on Earth was one of the best of the entire series.  Fighting through the streets of London provided a distinct setting for some of the most harrowing combat segments of the game, and I thought the dialogue sections when saying your last goodbye’s to squad-mates and confronting the
Illusive Man were very well-portrayed.

.

I agree  being on Earth fighting was alright from leaving the shuttle to taking down the Hades Cannon and then from the forward operating base to getting to the missle sequence.

I also thought fighting your way up the Citadel Tower was good in ME1 and the suicide mission in ME2 was good.

As others have mentioned I would've like to see our assets put to use since we spent the whole game collecting them.

I will disagree about the goodbyes in London. It was not the place to do those. It would've been better done on the Normandy while going to Earth not in the middle of a war zone. The other thing is the squadmates are saying "this is it" or "this is our last fight". What a bunch of wimps. The ME2 characters you contact through the "QEC yellow pages guy". Did all ME2 characters carry a portable QEC with them? When I talked with Steve, my first thought was how did he get back on the Normandy?

We get to the missles and after firing the first set we fight Brutes, Harvester, Banshees and Marauders. That's fine and dandy , but why didn't Anderson make a run towards the beam during that time? After the destroyer is put down we stand around talking about nothing while wasting time. Why aren't we moving forward to the beam?

The beam run is hilarious since no one has any brains(including Shepard)  except to run straight at the beam making for easy targets. I walked the whole way in one playthrough and got shot by Harbinger at least 10 times with no scartches, but the final one from Harbinger does damage. Whatever.

Now while running to the beam you get the what-the-crap evac scene. They do this to explain how our squadmates ended up back on the Normandy. Why didn't they explain how  the other squadmates when you left the FOB? If your ems is below 1900 both squadmates die. This should happen regardless of your ems or at least have the squadmates stay in cover and when the area is clear call for a shuttle.

After being shot by the laser, why didn't Anderson help shoot the husks and Marauder?

We talk with TIM and let him kill Anderson(I do anyways) you end up taking the magic carpet ride to meet the Leviathan turd.  The only child we see in the trilogy is now the little turd Leviathan created. It might of been better if it was your LI or maybe Kaidan?Ashley that died on Virmire.

We start talking to this thing and it explains the choices to us and all I could think is why can't my femshep question it  I was able to talk Saren into shooting himself and you can talk TIM into shooting himself. I know we can't have the turd shoot itself since its going by its programming and until that is changed it will continue to do what it was meant to do.I just like to have Shepard be given the opportunity to at least question the turd..

The other thing when you ask about the Crucible it says "you don't know them and there's not enough time to explain". I thought really, you have a "I got to destroy a planet party I have to get to".  I believe its Boiware's way of saying we have no idea.

Overall I did enjoy the game since I've done countless playthroughs

[von uber]

Funny really. if you go free cam at the evac scene, you can see it would have been impossible for the Normandy to land as it's wings go straight through all the scenery. Oh well.

[AlanC9]

themikefest wrote...
I will disagree about the goodbyes in London. It was not the place to do those. It would've been better done on the Normandy while going to Earth not in the middle of a war zone. The other thing is the squadmates are saying "this is it" or "this is our last fight". What a bunch of wimps.

I agree about the place; my guess is that they're put in the middle because Priority:Earth is pretty long, and they wanted the goodbyes to be a bit closer to the end. But what's wrong with calling it the last battle? It is.... unless they fail, in which case there will be plenty more hopeless fighting.

[Vigilant111]

AlanC9 wrote...

themikefest wrote...
I will disagree about the goodbyes in London. It was not the place to do those. It would've been better done on the Normandy while going to Earth not in the middle of a war zone. The other thing is the squadmates are saying "this is it" or "this is our last fight". What a bunch of wimps.

I agree about the place; my guess is that they're put in the middle because Priority:Earth is pretty long, and they wanted the goodbyes to be a bit closer to the end. But what's wrong with calling it the last battle? It is.... unless they fail, in which case there will be plenty more hopeless fighting.

You've got to admit it is sort of amusing to implement goodbye scenes that way since some of the squadmates are in fact in your squad all the way to the beam: "What goodbye, dude, you are in my squad!"

[Jared Shepard]

So sTkrZX5, now that you've completed the trilogy and have found peace with the ending.....now comes the other inevitable (and controversial) question......

Did you choose Control, Synthesis, or Destroy the Reapers?

And what was your reasoning for whichever choice you made?

Modifié par Jared Shepard, 18 janvier 2014 - 06:20 .

[themikefest]

AlanC9 wrote...

themikefest wrote...
I will disagree about the goodbyes in London. It was not the place to do those. It would've been better done on the Normandy while going to Earth not in the middle of a war zone. The other thing is the squadmates are saying "this is it" or "this is our last fight". What a bunch of wimps.

I agree about the place; my guess is that they're put in the middle because Priority:Earth is pretty long, and they wanted the goodbyes to be a bit closer to the end. But what's wrong with calling it the last battle? It is.... unless they fail, in which case there will be plenty more hopeless fighting.

Every fight could be the last fight in the game even though we know it isn't. If you don't make it to the beam you get back up and try a different plan that can lead to getting to the beam. Saying this could be the last battle shows weakness and brings morale down causing some not to to fight at their best.

[AlanC9]

themikefest wrote...

Every fight could be the last fight in the game even though we know it isn't. If you don't make it to the beam you get back up and try a different plan that can lead to getting to the beam. Saying this could be the last battle shows weakness and brings morale down causing some not to to fight at their best.

Wait... you're saying the characters should always pretend that they can't get killed?

[von uber]

"What if these are our last days and we spend them scurrying around trying to solve a problem we can't fix?"

And that is pretty much in one of the first scenes too. I would say it set's the tone fairly well.

Modifié par von uber, 18 janvier 2014 - 07:10 .