68 réponses à ce sujet

[Lyrandori]

Then I'm curious, presuming [for the heck of it] that we'd have scenarios in which Shepard survives all three (excuse me, four) endings, then which one would you actually choose? Or dare I say which one of the endings would you actually like? I know that for a number of players one of the reasons as to why the endings were 'bad' was because - ultimately - their Shepard(s) died. That, in other words, it came down to "choose which way you prefer dying". I admit, I'm of the school of thought that Shepard deserved his/her victory parade, allies and friends party, and drinks on a beach.

I'm going to make myself writer 101 for self-satisfaction purposes here and pretend that Shepard survives all four endings. What's unique about those endings is only found in Shepard's survival, that's it, all the rest about the endings as we know them remain identical. Feel free to take everything below with a grain of salt and an open mind for the sake of useless speculation if you have some time to lose with me.

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DESTROY

How Shepard Survived: Dunno... luck, good fortune, fate? Who knows, but eventually Shepard breaths again and is retrieved from the rubble by a rescue team, or something along the lines. I'm saying this because of the breath scene, but I could also pretend that we'd have had another scene in which Shepard doesn't just walk toward the 'machine' whilst firing at it and keeps the pace toward it as it explodes, wondering why he/she's apparently dying in a resulting explosion. But whatever, let's just say Shepard survived mmmk?

Consequences: The war against the Reapers is over, and all that remains of them are their 'corpses' where they fell on planet surfaces, waters and wherever they happened to be when they ceased to function, including the ones that now endlessly float in space and those that decay on planet orbits. In Shepard's case, he or she is being treated on Earth and eventually regains consciousness and full body functionality, certainly with scars I guess, perhaps both physically and psychologically. But life persists nonetheless and Reapers are gone for good. Sure, conflicts will always exist and space-police won't be there to tell life how to exist anymore. Etc.

CONTROL

How Shepard Survived: I and you both could invent 'ways' for Shepard to survive that one, but let's just say that he or she didn't simply get electrocuted and vaporized to atomic levels. That he or she can now fully understand and control Reapers after 'interfacing' / 'interacting' with the Control ending "machine". That Shepard can keep his/her current body and all the knowledge of Reapers combined can be contained in a human brain without any risks of brain farts over time, yada yada. Let's pretend that it's possible just as much as in that universe it's possible to drink through helmets.

Consequences: After Shepard regains consciousness (permanently linking his/her mind with all the Reapers' probably caused a momentary cognitive blackout or something similar) he/she realizes that not only she 'is part of' the Reapers but that they're also part of him/her. Oh and his/her eyes also probably glow blue or something... or maybe nothing is physically different whatsoever (that's up to your imagination, hey Renegade Shepard's scars glow red in ME2, so yeah why not).

Bu- But... What Happens After Shepard Dies?: What happens when Shepard actually dies of old age/natural causes... well I dunno. But I don't care really, let's just find out if choosing the Control ending wouldn't be so bad for many of us out there if Shepard actually survived it, and could control Reapers whilst being alive as a human being. But anyway I'd like to assume that after Shepard's bodily death his/her 'mind' persist for eternity within each and every single Reapers that exist, simply because Shepard controls them and is part of them. So after the body is gone the mind lives on in the Reapers themselves, Shepard is eternal in a sense. That's my take on it but feel free to think of one on your own.

SYNTHESIS

How Shepard Survived: Ok for that one... well maybe Shepard didn't disintegrate during the fall and it wasn't a bottomless pit after all, and some very comfy mattress was waiting at the bottom. That or maybe, simply, Shepard's sacrifice just wasn't necessary. I don't know... he/she was very special... somehow. So the Synthesis part of the ending machine mecanically took a blood sample and gave Shepard a doughnut for stress relief, happy panda. Then suddenly, transcendence.

Consequences: Shepard's skin also partly glows green and there's maybe more 0's and 1's flowing in his/her veins now than red cells, but our hero can live a new existence. It'd be a new beginning for Shepard just as much as it seems to be for all life in the galaxy. And who knows Shepard might live well past a then-normal organic human life expectancy since no life anymore is 'only organic' at that point and always partly that and synthetic too.

REFUSE

How Shepard Survived: Erm... well, the Reapers are thorough, says Vigil. Ok let's pretend that refusing doesn't end Shepard's life right there on the Citadel. The Normandy comes back, rescues Shepard and they leave the Sol System for the last time, never to see it nor Earth again.

Consequences: They then hmmm... look for some primitive-but-habitable planet on which they'll survive until they die of boredom... presuming that they of course plot-armored they way past any and all Reaper forces and patrols around the galaxy and so on and so forth.

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TO REITERATE

The point of all this is to find out if some of you guys would suddenly not turn your back on the endings that we do have had your Shepard(s) actually survived whichever one of the four endings you'd have chosen. I'm saying this because, in other words, I think that the Destroy ending is 'popular' for many of us simply because it is the only ending that has 'a hint' of a potentially-surviving Shepard via the breath scene. I don't know why BioWare actually bothered creating that scene at all, but heck they did.

If both Control and Synthesis also had a similarly-hinting potential Shepard survival scene that would suggest that maybe just maybe he/she could have lived on... then my guess is that all three endings would have been appreciated for different reasons rather than being hated for different reasons (as it seems to be for many of us out there).

WHAT ABOUT YOU?

So, let's say that you headcanoned your post-Destroy/Control/Synthesis/Refuse Shepard's survival in a way that satisfies you. Then which one of the endings would you choose? Which one would you consider the best? And if you want to mention, why?

WHAT ABOUT ME?

In a scenario which allows Shepard to live on then I have to admit that I still prefer the Destroy ending overall. Why? Well simply because my canon Shepard's personality would still have her stubbornly believe at that point and after all she's been through that the Reapers must be destroyed, period. She said she'd do everything in her power to stop them back in ME1, and that Shepard was on the Citadel facing the Catalyst in ME3.

The end result couldn't be more clear to me. Life can function without 'supervision' by Reapers and future inevitable confilcts will be resolved without interference. No 'solutions' are needed, and Leviathans are too arogant for their own good. I like to think that life never asked to be nor does it seek to be perfect, and that any forms of Utopia is merely an idea rather than a goal we should acheive one day or another.

Although under the condition that Shepard's identity and personality remains intact then I wouldn't find Synthesis to be repulsive at all anymore. Still, Synthesis would only be my second choice, perhaps would be more fitting for another Shepard. But as it is now I only ever had one single canon Shepard and the Destroy ending, including her survival would be perfect for her.

ISN'T THAT SELFISH?

What, do you mean it's selfish to think that the endings aren't bad after all if my canon Shepard could survive any of them when in fact I think that they're all bad just because ultimately Shepard dies in all of them? Hell yeah it is.

IF YOU ACTUALLY LIKE THE ENDINGS...

As they are, then it's fine, but this thread probably doesn't apply to you unless you just want to participate for the heck of it. I know some people don't give a rat's arse about the fact that their Shepard 'died like a hero' and sacrificed him/herself for 'a greater good' so that the rest of the galaxy may live on. That's fine.

TL;DR (This is mostly for BioWare)

It wasn't necessary to kill Shepard to end Shepard's journey.

[Comrade Wakizashi]

For me, the survival of Shepard in the Destroy ending is a nice bonus, a very nice one. But not the main point. If Shepard were to survive all other options as well (which he sort of does in the Control option anyway), I would still choose Destroy. Because **** the Reapers and what they stand for.

[NeonFlux117]

Nope. Shepard dies or commits suicide in all the endings but one-

High EMS destroy. Sorry, but true. So.... Yeah.

Becoming a Reaper God King requires Shepard to kill himself-control path

Joining the Reaper Gods requires shepard to kill himself-synthesis path

Defying the Reaper Gods result in not only Shepards death but the entire cycles death and harvest-Refuse choice

Destroying the Reaper Gods and their Deity-The Catalyst, result in Shepard's survival-if Shepard's EMS and will is strong enough, but the loss of EDI and the destruction of the Geth- Destroy path.

Shepard only survives in one of the ending choices. High EMS Destroy.

You cannot head-canon this. It is a fact. Deal with it.

The cosmos never rewarded the naive.

[KaiserShep]

NeonFlux117 wrote...
You cannot head-canon this. It is a fact. Deal with it.

The cosmos never rewarded the naive.

 The OP is not making stuff up, but rather asking a hypothetical question.

Modifié par KaiserShep, 14 janvier 2014 - 10:09 .

[NeonFlux117]

KaiserShep wrote...

NeonFlux117 wrote...
You cannot head-canon this. It is a fact. Deal with it.

The cosmos never rewarded the naive.

 The OP is not making stuff up, but rather asking a hypothetical question.

Shepard is disentegrated in Control and Synthesis. This is clearly shown. There isn't even room for speculation or interpretation on that one. 

Now, I'll give you maybe refuse because we actually don't see Shepard die... But it's implied heavily. 

[KaiserShep]

I guess the word hypothetical no longer has meaning.

[SwobyJ]

Whatever happens, we'll have more technology involved in the protagonist/'Shepard' than before. The trend continues.

I will read your thread now.

[SwobyJ]

NeonFlux117 wrote...

Nope. Shepard dies or commits suicide in all the endings but one-

High EMS destroy. Sorry, but true. So.... Yeah.

Becoming a Reaper God King requires Shepard to kill himself-control path

Joining the Reaper Gods requires shepard to kill himself-synthesis path

Defying the Reaper Gods result in not only Shepards death but the entire cycles death and harvest-Refuse choice

Destroying the Reaper Gods and their Deity-The Catalyst, result in Shepard's survival-if Shepard's EMS and will is strong enough, but the loss of EDI and the destruction of the Geth- Destroy path.

Shepard only survives in one of the ending choices. High EMS Destroy.

You cannot head-canon this. It is a fact. Deal with it.

The cosmos never rewarded the naive.

Lesson of ME2: Death is only the beginning.

[SwobyJ]

I look at it this way.

Destroy - Chance of Shepard's body, mind, and soul remaining, even if they all still become changed from this whole experience. Our Shepard could have still died (High/Low EMS, instead of Max).

Control - Body-as-we-know-it gone. Mind and soul may persist, but it wouldn't be quite the same person. Because our Shepard died.

Synthesis - Body and mind gone. Soul may persist and inspire this new form that remains. Because our Shepard died.


Obviously a ton of subjectivity involved here. Duh.

Modifié par SwobyJ, 14 janvier 2014 - 11:05 .

[Chashan]

Lyrandori wrote...

Then I'm curious, presuming [for the heck of it] that we'd have scenarios in which Shepard survives all three (excuse me, four) endings, then which one would you actually choose? Or dare I say which one of the endings would you actually like? I know that for a number of players one of the reasons as to why the endings were 'bad' was because - ultimately - their Shepard(s) died. That, in other words, it came down to "choose which way you prefer dying". I admit, I'm of the school of thought that Shepard deserved his/her victory parade, allies and friends party, and drinks on a beach.

I'm going to make myself writer 101 for self-satisfaction purposes here and pretend that Shepard survives all four endings. What's unique about those endings is only found in Shepard's survival, that's it, all the rest about the endings as we know them remain identical. Feel free to take everything below with a grain of salt and an open mind for the sake of useless speculation if you have some time to lose with me.

So, as blurred and open-ended as ever? In that case...

CONTROL

How Shepard Survived: I and you both could invent 'ways' for Shepard to survive that one, but let's just say that he or she didn't simply get electrocuted and vaporized to atomic levels. That he or she can now fully understand and control Reapers after 'interfacing' / 'interacting' with the Control ending "machine". That Shepard can keep his/her current body and all the knowledge of Reapers combined can be contained in a human brain without any risks of brain farts over time, yada yada. Let's pretend that it's possible just as much as in that universe it's possible to drink through helmets.

In a universe where something as convoluted as Green is possible, that's no stretch at all.

I'd even be dope with that. Shepard wouldn't feel a need to justify herself in some hokey monologue, decomission the Reap-hurrs for parts/reconstruct far cooler looking vessels out of them - I don't know, like these, or that - and use husks for...compost? Blood-sport? Something can be arranged for the defunct zombie apocalypse, I'm sure.
As for Shepard's mortality...I am certain with all that at her disposal, immortality in the flesh can be arranged.

[sevalaricgirl]

The reapers die and Shep says "f*ck yes...*looks up*..where the hell is joker." Destroy is the only ending my Sheps would pick since any species, synthetic or organic that murders billions should be blown to hell.

Modifié par sevalaricgirl, 14 janvier 2014 - 11:28 .

[Han Shot First]

Destroy.

It was never about Shepard's survival for me. It was about defeating the Reapers once and for all, and Destroy is the only ending option that  allows that. In fact if Shepard had died in every version of the Destroy ending but somehow survived in Control and Synthesis, Destroy would still be my choice.

[AlanC9]

I never thought Shepard's survival was particularly important. It's a nice bonus, but no more than that. Which means that the hypothetical leaves me about where I was; namely, thinking that Destroy isn't all that great, but still picking it sometimes for RP purposes.

[von uber]

Given the enhancements to Shepards body, I think her survival rate in the rubble is pretty high.

Anyway, as others have said, even if she survived in the other endings, would still have to be destroy.
Although the thought of banshee podium dancers is highly amusing. * lean forward...*

Modifié par von uber, 14 janvier 2014 - 01:20 .

[ruggly]

If there was a chance for survival in all three endings? I'd probably make Shepards to RP the various endings then.

[themikefest]

Destroy all the time every time no matter what.

[ElSuperGecko]

Destroy. You don't try and keep a rabid dog on a leash, and you certainly don't let it bite everyone, everywhere. You put it down. End of story.

[shodiswe]

Control, killing the Catalyst and conquering his Reaper thralls, forcing them to set things right. The citadel doesn't blow up.

Synthesis also works.

Modifié par shodiswe, 14 janvier 2014 - 02:59 .

[jamesp81]

Lyrandori wrote...

Then I'm curious, presuming [for the heck of it] that we'd have scenarios in which Shepard survives all three (excuse me, four) endings, then which one would you actually choose? Or dare I say which one of the endings would you actually like?

I won't go so far as to say I liked any of the endings.  However, I choose Destroy regardless of the consequences for Shepard.

Lyrandori wrote...

It wasn't necessary to kill Shepard to end Shepard's journey.

Agreed.

[jamesp81]

Comrade Wakizashi wrote...

For me, the survival of Shepard in the Destroy ending is a nice bonus, a very nice one. But not the main point. If Shepard were to survive all other options as well (which he sort of does in the Control option anyway), I would still choose Destroy. Because **** the Reapers and what they stand for.

Agreed and well stated.

[Iakus]

If Shepard survived all endings, it might make Control a bit more tempting. But I'd still stick with MEHEM

Edit:  In the end, while allowing Shepard a chance to live is an important feature lacking in the endings, it isn't the most important aspect of the ending.

Modifié par iakus, 14 janvier 2014 - 03:55 .

[dreamgazer]

The exposition is lacking here, but it makes sense that Shepard would hae to forfeit his life to control (geth consensus + potential of Reaper control being hacked) or to synthesize (explore the nuance of Shepard's cyborg-like body for the physiological and philosophical answer).

themikefest wrote...

Destroy all the time every time no matter what.

^

[MattFini]

jamesp81 wrote...

Comrade Wakizashi wrote...

For me, the survival of Shepard in the Destroy ending is a nice bonus, a very nice one. But not the main point. If Shepard were to survive all other options as well (which he sort of does in the Control option anyway), I would still choose Destroy. Because **** the Reapers and what they stand for.

Agreed and well stated.

Signed. 

That's the thing. Going into ME3, I thought Shepard was going to die. I also thought that the final mission would be like ME2's suicide mission, only with certain unavoidable casualties (like Virmire). So it wasn't the downbeat nature that got to me so much as everything else. 

That Shepard survives Destroy is cool, but it's still pretty frustrating because I don't care for the slapdash nature of P:E, or anything about the decision chamber. Also BioWare's refusal to give living Shepard an epilgoue in Destroy...

Modifié par MattFini, 14 janvier 2014 - 04:19 .

[von uber]

If bioware had put a scene in high ems destroy where their li or similar drags them out of the rubble and they embrace as shep is taken away for treatment, no-one would even bother with any of the other endings.