144 réponses à ce sujet

[GimmeDaGun]

Javik: Destroy the mothe...machines and throw them out the air-lock!

Garrus: Lets give them hell! ... nuff said.

Wrex: Rip 'em pyjaks to shreds!

Vega: O que matarlos todos!

Ashley: Lets shove their metal tentacles up in their...!

Mordin: ...problematic.

Modifié par GimmeDaGun, 17 janvier 2014 - 09:55 .

[Hazegurl]

CrutchCricket wrote...
Translation: You have no rebuttal so you ignore everything else and clumsily attempt to troll.

I'll take that as concession of defeat.

No, it means my opinion still stands and every single rebuttal to you has already been written which means that for any reply to your neverending whining is already located above in this very thread. Why keep repeating myself? At the end of the day I had already called it that you're just whining over of the endings and Kasumi's writing. That sounds like a personal problem and nothing anyone can fix. Maybe you should write fan fiction for therapy. 

[Hazegurl]

von uber wrote...

'Butthurt' is a horribly homophobic insult (what with its overtones with sexual violence thrown in). I wish Americans would stop using it; sadly it is creeping into the speech of the more juvenile in the UK too.

Everyone can be "butthurt" in the literal sense as anyone can be assulted in that reigon.

[Hazegurl]

TheMyron wrote...
I really do hate how your not allowed to so much as try to help Kasumi get over Keiji's death.

I actually like it that way. It shows that Kasumi is her own person and she isn't just going to get over her past lover simply because Shepard tells her too. It means that Keiji was more important to her than anything and it isn't something that can be fixed through the destruction of a piece of tech or even in one or two games.

[eye basher]

Their a bunch of flunkies i don't care what they have to say i'm in charge and i say shoot the pipe and let the devil sort them out.

[CrutchCricket]

TheMyron wrote...

I did destroy the box and then assured its destruction with the destroy ending, and she is still seen looking over it in sorrow...

Hence my rage. They didn't just ignore her character development, they downright reversed it. I honestly can't think of what more one could do to ruin her character. First they made her a coward. Then in the ending they make her obsessed to certifiable levels. And even when it comes time for pure light-hearted fanservice (the party) they make her an underwear sniffing weirdo. I'm pretty sure that's a case for "worst ME2 character treatment ever", aside from Morinth. There are good parts, sure. But I shouldn't have to try and mod the game to decrease her lines in order to enjoy her appearance.

[CrutchCricket]

Hazegurl wrote...
No, it means my opinion still stands

Your opinion is seriously misinformed, and thus, nonsensical.

and every single rebuttal to you has already been written

Every single one except the ones that matter (i.e. a response to actual arguments and not just reactionary fluff).

At the end of the day I had already called it that you're just whining over of the endings and Kasumi's writing.

Butthurt over butthurt is unproductive.

And in this case hilariously wrong.

Hazegurl wrote...
I actually like it that way. It shows that Kasumi is her own person and she isn't just going to get over her past lover simply because Shepard tells her too. It means that Keiji was more important to her than anything and it isn't something that can be fixed through the destruction of a piece of tech or even in one or two games.

No it shows that Kasumi is an wangsty, emo failure of a person, a far cry from the quirky, adventurous and independent thief we met in ME2 (and occasionally peeks out in ME3). Furthermore it hints that she is clingly, needy and emotionally immature, and in all likelyhood was into Keiji a lot more than he was into her and who knows? If he hadn't died, maybe he would've ditched her because he doesn't need this bull****.

If this is true, she isn't "her own person". She isn't even a character. She's just a cheap, copy/paste imitation of a cool character from ME2. A real person, no a basic character would overcome this hardship (with a little help from their friends if need be), would move on and would be stronger as a result. That's "being your own person", that's being a person. Adapting and living your life, not being chained and defined by your grief. That's what I should see, that's what I want to see, that's what I will see.

Deal with it.

[teh DRUMPf!!]

 Weekes apparently came up with the Kasumi/Keiji slide thingy and this was his explanation for it:

"In Synthesis, the improved communication/relationship between synthetics and organics is enough for Keiji's greybox memories to be reconstructed. This would let Kasumi reunite with her lover (at least mentally and emotionally). Whether it really is Keiji, based on his memories, or just a very good AI reconstruction of him, is up to the player to determine -- that type of question is one of the core questions of Synthesis."

Take that FWIW.

[Hazegurl]

CrutchCricket wrote...
No it shows that Kasumi is an wangsty, emo failure of a person....(snip whining)

People should be allowed to greive on their own time, not when your personal timer says "stop"

Deal with it.

LOL! Claiming that someone should have to deal with something is to imply that they care about it enough to complain. Since the only person complaining and imploding all over this thread is you then it seems like you're the only person that applies to.

Oh yeah, and a pic for good luck:D

[Hazegurl]

HYR 2.0 wrote...

 Weekes apparently came up with the Kasumi/Keiji slide thingy and this was his explanation for it:

"In Synthesis, the improved communication/relationship between synthetics and organics is enough for Keiji's greybox memories to be reconstructed. This would let Kasumi reunite with her lover (at least mentally and emotionally). Whether it really is Keiji, based on his memories, or just a very good AI reconstruction of him, is up to the player to determine -- that type of question is one of the core questions of Synthesis."

Take that FWIW.

It sounds about right that they would leave it up to the audience. I like that much better as it can go either way based on those who selected Synthesis as an option for their ending. I've never picked it as my ending but I do like the idea of the graybox being turned into an AI. So I guess I can say that Kasumi reconstructed the graybox and made a very good Keiji AI. But to bring up the question of whether or not it really is Keiji because of the memories is also very interesting. Perhaps the graybox could have been reconstructed with the idea of it being an AI yet it evolved further eventually due to the memories?

[CrutchCricket]

Hazegurl wrote...
People should be allowed to greive on their own time, not when your personal timer says "stop"

Time from when Keiji was first killed to ME2 + elapsed time during ME2+ six months to ME3 + elapsed time during ME3= enough personal time for you?

Given that it's measured in years I'd say so.

LOL! Claiming that someone should have to deal with something is to imply that they care about it enough to complain. Since the only person complaining and imploding all over this thread is you then it seems like you're the only person that applies to.

Well since you're the one making borderline personal attacks while fuming as to why I don't bow before this nonsense, I'd say, yeah you need to deal with it. Or at least go troll somewhere else since you've stopped actually discussing anything in good faith long ago.

Hazegurl wrote...

HYR 2.0 wrote...

 Weekes apparently came up with the Kasumi/Keiji slide thingy and this was his explanation for it:

"In Synthesis, the improved communication/relationship between synthetics and organics is enough for Keiji's greybox memories to be reconstructed. This would let Kasumi reunite with her lover (at least mentally and emotionally). Whether it really is Keiji, based on his memories, or just a very good AI reconstruction of him, is up to the player to determine -- that type of question is one of the core questions of Synthesis."

Take that FWIW.

It sounds about right that they would leave it up to the audience. I like that much better as it can go either way based on those who selected Synthesis as an option for their ending. I've never picked it as my ending but I do like the idea of the graybox being turned into an AI. So I guess I can say that Kasumi reconstructed the graybox and made a very good Keiji AI. But to bring up the question of whether or not it really is Keiji because of the memories is also very interesting. Perhaps the graybox could have been reconstructed with the idea of it being an AI yet it evolved further eventually due to the memories?

I've taken the liberty to once again point out the parts that are nonsense via, underlining. You're welcome.

HYR:Where did you get the quote from? Anyway, the bit about the graybox being reconstructed would have to be there to cover anyone that destroyed the graybox but picked synthesis. I guess it's not that much of a stretch, since Kasumi somehow reconstructs the war data normally anyway. Presumably she can fix the whole thing with space magic synthesis powers. But that's all it can be. It certainly can't "reconstruct" memories that were never there, and therein lies the problem with this silly resurrection scenario. Nothing in the entry about grayboxes or Keiji's in particular indicates that it's a full brain backup. Indeed I find it very unlikely that it can be.

So no matter how good a VI she builds with memories and space magic it won't be Keiji. And I think, no matter how certifiably obsessed she may become she'll realize and have to accept this eventually. But that's character speculation. From the data we have, I still say it's a technical impossibility. And of course, none of this could be predicted pre-decision by anyone. But that's another discussion.

[o Ventus]

I like to think that Miranda has the commen sense to see that the Catalyst is full of it, as would Javik. So, Destroy for both of them. Javik would probably pick destroy regardless.

[DeinonSlayer]

CrutchCricket wrote...

TheMyron wrote...

I did destroy the box and then assured its destruction with the destroy ending, and she is still seen looking over it in sorrow...

Hence my rage. They didn't just ignore her character development, they downright reversed it. I honestly can't think of what more one could do to ruin her character. First they made her a coward. Then in the ending they make her obsessed to certifiable levels. And even when it comes time for pure light-hearted fanservice (the party) they make her an underwear sniffing weirdo. I'm pretty sure that's a case for "worst ME2 character treatment ever", aside from Morinth. There are good parts, sure. But I shouldn't have to try and mod the game to decrease her lines in order to enjoy her appearance.

Yeah... didn't really know what to make of that... 

I miss Flashbang Grenade.

[teh DRUMPf!!]

CrutchCricket wrote...

HYR:Where did you get the quote from?

[link] (go to post #24)

Presumably she can fix the whole thing with space magic synthesis powers. But that's all it can be. It certainly can't "reconstruct" memories that were never there, and therein lies the problem with this silly resurrection scenario. Nothing in the entry about grayboxes or Keiji's in particular indicates that it's a full brain backup. Indeed I find it very unlikely that it can be.

So no matter how good a VI she builds with memories and space magic it won't be Keiji. And I think, no matter how certifiably obsessed she may become she'll realize and have to accept this eventually. But that's character speculation. From the data we have, I still say it's a technical impossibility. And of course, none of this could be predicted pre-decision by anyone. But that's another discussion.

This is the same debate as whether or not the Catalyst in Control is Shepard or not. Some think it is the same guy, just in a new body. Others say it's a different person altogether. Depends on what you believe (and debating it gets nowhere).

Hence, "is up to the player to determine."

[teh DRUMPf!!]

o Ventus wrote...

I like to think that Miranda has the commen sense to see that the Catalyst is full of it, as would Javik. So, Destroy for both of them. Javik would probably pick destroy regardless.

The same Javik who believes the exact same thing about organics v. synthetics (save for preferred solution) - ?

[ImaginaryMatter]

HYR 2.0 wrote...

 Weekes apparently came up with the Kasumi/Keiji slide thingy and this was his explanation for it:

"In Synthesis, the improved communication/relationship between synthetics and organics is enough for Keiji's greybox memories to be reconstructed. This would let Kasumi reunite with her lover (at least mentally and emotionally). Whether it really is Keiji, based on his memories, or just a very good AI reconstruction of him, is up to the player to determine -- that type of question is one of the core questions of Synthesis."

Take that FWIW.

Actually I kinda like that. Although, on the other hand does Synthesis need even more questions surrounding it?

[Hazegurl]

ImaginaryMatter wrote...

HYR 2.0 wrote...

 Weekes apparently came up with the Kasumi/Keiji slide thingy and this was his explanation for it:

"In Synthesis, the improved communication/relationship between synthetics and organics is enough for Keiji's greybox memories to be reconstructed. This would let Kasumi reunite with her lover (at least mentally and emotionally). Whether it really is Keiji, based on his memories, or just a very good AI reconstruction of him, is up to the player to determine -- that type of question is one of the core questions of Synthesis."

Take that FWIW.

Actually I kinda like that. Although, on the other hand does Synthesis need even more questions surrounding it?

At least Synthesis choosers have a lot of dicussion material at hand. Too bad the threads would be bombarded with people calling it an abomination and derailing it back into the same old "My choice is the best and only one." thread.  I like Destroy but really the only thing you can discuss post destroy is "when did the galaxy rebuild everything."

[CrutchCricket]

HYR 2.0 wrote...

This is the same debate as whether or not the Catalyst in Control is Shepard or not. Some think it is the same guy, just in a new body. Others say it's a different person altogether. Depends on what you believe (and debating it gets nowhere).

Not exactly. The difference there is full continuity of persona from Shepard to the control entity. Everything he is gets uploaded into the system. Full memories, thought patterns, even genetic data and exact information on every atom of his mind and body if that makes a difference. It's possible he doesn't even lose consciousness during the transfer. The control entity is different from Shepard but the difference doesn't come from what is lost but what is added. If you're interested on my take on it, check out the link in my sig (Control Explained).

The graybox on the other hand couldn't possibly contain all this information about Keiji and in all likelyhood has barely a fraction of his memories. It is an interesting question whether memory alone defines identity but even people who say yes do so on the assumption of a complete set. The graybox does not contain such a set. Also, in ME2 we find that Keiji used the memories stored to encrypt the sensitive data. That's well and good for protecting the data but what about his memories? It's all data in the graybox. Could his memories have been corrupted? If you splice a .mp3 and a .pdf the result is unusable, and I'm not sure you can recover them. And even if they're not corrupted in the traditional sense, they're still modified from the originals, thus potentially resulting in a completely different personality, even if you were able to get past the other problems.

No, I don't think it's possible at all. I'm willing to give Weekes the benefit of the doubt and say he just hasn't thought it through. The imagery is in line with what they want synthesis to be like but as with so many other related things, the imagery may work but the details tell a different story and sadly the latter was ignored, or overlooked.

[Farangbaa]

o Ventus wrote...

I like to think that Miranda has the commen sense to see that the Catalyst is full of it, as would Javik. So, Destroy for both of them. Javik would probably pick destroy regardless.

No he would not. He would shoot the Catalyst and thus refuse.

[Farangbaa]

Hazegurl wrote...

ImaginaryMatter wrote...

HYR 2.0 wrote...

 Weekes apparently came up with the Kasumi/Keiji slide thingy and this was his explanation for it:

"In Synthesis, the improved communication/relationship between synthetics and organics is enough for Keiji's greybox memories to be reconstructed. This would let Kasumi reunite with her lover (at least mentally and emotionally). Whether it really is Keiji, based on his memories, or just a very good AI reconstruction of him, is up to the player to determine -- that type of question is one of the core questions of Synthesis."

Take that FWIW.

Actually I kinda like that. Although, on the other hand does Synthesis need even more questions surrounding it?

At least Synthesis choosers have a lot of dicussion material at hand. Too bad the threads would be bombarded with people calling it an abomination and derailing it back into the same old "My choice is the best and only one." thread.  I like Destroy but really the only thing you can discuss post destroy is "when did the galaxy rebuild everything."

Not really. You can also discuss how long it'll take for some race to construct synthetics that will destroy organic life.

And from the Catalyst's perspective: not very long. From our perspective it might take several lifetimes, but that's nothing to the Catalyst.