25 réponses à ce sujet

[ckriley]

This is the biggest thing (besides all the CC) that bothers me about DAO.  How spikey it is in difficulty.  I can be level 21 in full Dragonbone armor with a Starfang and all tanking talents maxed out, and have my party in equally good gear and get absolutely destroyed by random bandits, spiders, darkspawn on the road.  And then turn around and breeze through the High Dragon, Flemeth, and any other boss in the game with zero problems.

Case in point:  the archdemon.  I've played through the game four times now.  And on my last three playthroughs, I've killed the archdemon on the first attempt, no reloads at all.  I rarely have to use a single potion.  I don't use the ballistas at all.  And on my last playthrough I even forgot to call out an army until he was close to 50%.  I was soloing him.

I can guarantee you that after I killed the archdemon, had there been the ability to keep playing the game, I would have then been completely destroyed by random white spiders on the road.  Not sure if this was intentional or not, but I hope the devs clear this up in the expansion. 

[killerchicken68]

honestly on normal i beat the game wearing most of my characters starting armor, which blows, mainly their starting weapons, and the only thing i had a problem with is when a character would path wrong and die cuz he couldnt get a heal. other than that gear had no real effect on playing through a second time. So mainly yea deep roads being harder than archdemon... ftw?

[ericsa]

I wish BioWare would implement more strategies into bossfights, like the littany at the fight with uldred or the likes. I agree tho, the archdemon is a joke. Killing him on nightmare isn't hard either, the climb up there to the top of the tower is even harder.

[YooperLaw]

True enough ... a pair of Darkspawn Emissaries can cause a lot more trouble than the Archdemon, especially if they have a few friends with them. Then of course there's the biggest badass in the entire game ... Ser Cauthrien.

[lazuli]

Force Field Tank > Ser Cauthrien.

[YooperLaw]

lazuli wrote...

Force Field Tank > Ser Cauthrien.

Wouldn't that be a stalemate? Cauthrien unable to damage the Tank and said Tank being unable to do anything?

[Lord Phoebus]

Ser Cauthrien is a joke if you can get your defense over 150, her archers on the other hand...

[lessthanjake9]

YooperLaw wrote...

True enough ... a pair of Darkspawn Emissaries can cause a lot more trouble than the Archdemon, especially if they have a few friends with them. Then of course there's the biggest badass in the entire game ... Ser Cauthrien.

Which Ser Cauthrien fight do you mean? The one RIGHT before the Landsmeet, or the one when you rescue Queen Anora? On the PC, I basically think that the one when you rescue the queen is virtually impossible. If you fight before the Landsmeet, its not that bad, since you dont have like 8 archers and 2 mages to kill as well.



The archdemon fight IS easy, but thats cause youre leveled up so high by that point. Your character is glorious. But thats sorta the point, I think. Its anticlimactic, but your character is fulfilling the destiny of the grey wardens, so it shouldnt be THAT hard. It is meant to happen.

BTW, to whoever said that the High Dragon is easy, try doing it at level 11. My first playthrough, I did it at level 11, and it was the hardest fight ive ever had in a game (I am on the PC as well, so my game is much harder than console)

[YooperLaw]

Possibly. I haven't tried it myself but I imagine that the Archdemon could easily be beaten by just two people, a Tank-build and a Mage (just to be safe with revive and some heals). Granted you have allies during the battle (Knight-Commander Gregeoir ftw!) but with the Corruption helmet and some other swank gear it wouldn't be too hard.

Trying to take on Ser Cauthrien with just two people, assuming you draw her away from the archers? It's certainly doable especially if you have a ton of health potions, but she always goes after my Mage and no amount of taunting, threatening, or freezing will convince Cauthrien otherwise. If the Mage falls then the Tank can still beat her ... just will take a while and a lot of potions. Trying to beat her the "true" way with the Archers ... forget about it.

Even 1v1 ... I'd rather go against the Archdemon than Cauthrien.

EDIT - Of course I mean the ambush during "Rescue the Queen."

Modifié par YooperLaw, 21 janvier 2010 - 05:53 .

[WillieStyle]

lazuli wrote...

Force Field Tank > Ser Cauthrien.

Lern2nightmare.
Also cheese is bad for you.

Modifié par WillieStyle, 21 janvier 2010 - 07:38 .

[Haplose]

lessthanjake9 wrote...

Which Ser Cauthrien fight do you mean? The one RIGHT before the Landsmeet, or the one when you rescue Queen Anora? On the PC, I basically think that the one when you rescue the queen is virtually impossible.

Nah, it's not difficult at all (on Nightmare). You just need to cheese it a bit and run back to one of the earlier rooms after she is alarmed of your presence. Being chain-scattershotted in that fight would be bad. Once you're out of LoS of archers it's very easy. She can't hit tanks or Dex Rogues AT ALL. It would even be an easy solo fight (as long as you're max Dex).

The Archdemon is comparatively much tougher. Does AOEs and moves to unreachable positions. Has these Massive Attacks, Tailsweeps, Grabs etc.And you can't evade many of these moves. Still not really difficult, doesn't really do enough spike damage to be deadly. Plus you can call support. A bunch of Mages really trivializes that fight I guess.

A bunch of spiders are indeed tougher, at least if you don't have 100% Physical Resistance (but even that doesn't guarantee not being Overwhelmed).

[Random70]

Haplose wrote...

Nah, it's not difficult at all (on Nightmare). You just need to cheese it a bit and run back to one of the earlier rooms after she is alarmed of your presence. Being chain-scattershotted in that fight would be bad. Once you're out of LoS of archers it's very easy. She can't hit tanks or Dex Rogues AT ALL. It would even be an easy solo fight (as long as you're max Dex).

A bunch of spiders are indeed tougher, at least if you don't have 100% Physical Resistance (but even that doesn't guarantee not being Overwhelmed).

During a recent nightmare solo run my S/S warrior had a defense rating ~160. Cauthrien couldn't touch her...until she started casting perfect striking, at which point she hit every time.

Oh, and overwhelm is an auto-hit. It checks against neither defense nor phys. res.

[lessthanjake9]

Haplose wrote...

lessthanjake9 wrote...

Which Ser Cauthrien fight do you mean? The one RIGHT before the Landsmeet, or the one when you rescue Queen Anora? On the PC, I basically think that the one when you rescue the queen is virtually impossible.

Nah, it's not difficult at all (on Nightmare). You just need to cheese it a bit and run back to one of the earlier rooms after she is alarmed of your presence. Being chain-scattershotted in that fight would be bad. Once you're out of LoS of archers it's very easy. She can't hit tanks or Dex Rogues AT ALL. It would even be an easy solo fight (as long as you're max Dex).

The Archdemon is comparatively much tougher. Does AOEs and moves to unreachable positions. Has these Massive Attacks, Tailsweeps, Grabs etc.And you can't evade many of these moves. Still not really difficult, doesn't really do enough spike damage to be deadly. Plus you can call support. A bunch of Mages really trivializes that fight I guess.

A bunch of spiders are indeed tougher, at least if you don't have 100% Physical Resistance (but even that doesn't guarantee not being Overwhelmed).

Yeah I mean, if youve got a character with ungodly defense, then I suspect the Cauthrien fight is doable on PC. I've never really gotten to that part of the game with a character with glorious defense though.

I have always tried to run away to another room, but EVERY time I try that, the archers/Cauthrien outright kills one of my party members as they flee the room. And then, somehow, since I have never really specced anyone to that point who had glorious defense, about 4 or 5 hits from her and another party member is down. CC spells/abilities dont work on her cause she shrugs them off so fast. Essentially, you really need a GREAT tank to win that fight. Thats what it comes down to.

I've never had that there. ALthugh, I suppose I havent really tried much. On my first playthrough I discovered after trying like 3 times that upon dying, I didnt lose. Thus, I never really try that hard to win that fight, to be honest.

[Bozorgmehr]

Use Misdirection Hex on her, she can't hit you. If it wears off Force Field her. Repeat until you've dealt with her archers and finish her. Easy fight.

[ijmorris]

how many of you are playing with the rally bug running?

[Haplose]

ijmorris wrote...

how many of you are playing with the rally bug running?

Rally bug is not needed to reach 160+ Defence. I think my Dex Rogue had as much self buffed.
Heck, it's probably possible to legitimately reach 250+ Defence with Max Dex, max +Def equipment, Shield Talents and buffs...

[ckriley]

The funny thing about all the people quoting defense stats and such is that you don't really need high def in the archdemon fight or even against Ser Cauthrien, who for the record, is MUCH more powerful than the archdemon when faced at Howe's estate. I made a separate thread about that a few weeks ago.



The consensus was the devs don't really want you to win that fight. You're actually supposed to go to the dungeon and do the whole escape thing. However, if you want to try it, you can kill Cauthrien at the estate. The easiest way to do it is to run down to the end of the hall to that really big room, and then just kite her around in circles while Morrigan, Wynne and Leliana (ranged) nuke her down. Which is stupid by the way. You've tanked and killed dragons, fought werewolves and insane paragons, super powerful abominations and a Brood Mother. Yet they all pale in comparison to one woman wielding a 2her.

[ckriley]

YooperLaw wrote...

lazuli wrote...

Force Field Tank > Ser Cauthrien.

Wouldn't that be a stalemate? Cauthrien unable to damage the Tank and said Tank being unable to do anything?

I think the concept is, you force field the tank and Cauthrien continues to pound on him while everyone else burns her down.  Force fielding a target does not cause a loss of aggro.  At least in my experience.  But seriously, just running around in circles while everyone else nukes her achieves the same exact effect.

[lazuli]

WillieStyle wrote...

lazuli wrote...

Force Field Tank > Ser Cauthrien.

Lern2nightmare.
Also cheese is bad for you.

Is there a guide somewhere that isolates all skills and strategies into cheese and non-dairy?  I'm trying to play this game as a vegan, but apparently I'm doing it wrong.

A cursory search provided little in the way of results.

[x-president]

Ser Cauthrien is a tough battle during the Rescue of the Queen, but if Ser Cauthrien didn't have all that support she would drop like a hot potatoe.

The Gaxxkang fight is probably one of or is the toughest single enemy fight.  It is just soo tight in that small room.  

The Archdemon is easy becasue you have so much space.  They should of had the Archdemon hover above you dropping mad destruction on your head.  Then grabbing people and tossing them off the side of the building.  That would have rocked.

[lessthanjake9]

ckriley wrote...

The funny thing about all the people quoting defense stats and such is that you don't really need high def in the archdemon fight or even against Ser Cauthrien, who for the record, is MUCH more powerful than the archdemon when faced at Howe's estate. I made a separate thread about that a few weeks ago.

The consensus was the devs don't really want you to win that fight. You're actually supposed to go to the dungeon and do the whole escape thing. However, if you want to try it, you can kill Cauthrien at the estate. The easiest way to do it is to run down to the end of the hall to that really big room, and then just kite her around in circles while Morrigan, Wynne and Leliana (ranged) nuke her down. Which is stupid by the way. You've tanked and killed dragons, fought werewolves and insane paragons, super powerful abominations and a Brood Mother. Yet they all pale in comparison to one woman wielding a 2her.

That has always been my impression of the Ser Cauthrien fight. I have always thought that you were meant to lose it, and thus I dont try too hard to win it. What happens if you win the fight? Is it just as if you totally skip the escape portion? If so, I think it is clear you are meant to lose the fight.

[Haplose]

Yeah, you get a Codex entry and are not arrested - proceed however you like. Probably go back to Arl's mansion.

[soteria]

Killing Cauthrien in the room is a fun challenge, but I usually reload and surrender. And lazuli, it's a single-player game. If using any particular strategy feels fine to you, go for it. Personally I avoid certain tactics and spells because I think they make the game too easy, and that's boring.



If you want a list of what other people consider cheese, this is non-exhaustive:



Chugging loads of potions, lyrium or health (define "loads," but whatever)

Casting force field on a tank after taunting

Three mages (some would say two is borderline, again, whatever)

Endlessly kiting

Luring single enemies away from a larger group with ranged weapons

Setting lots of traps in an area you know (from having reloaded or a prior game) an enemy is going to appear

Mana clash



Different people define "cheese" differently. Some people think taunt is cheese, and some people think momentum is cheese, and some people think min/maxing a character and gearing him/her up is cheese. Play how you like.

[WillieStyle]

Obviously what constitutes cheese will vary from person to person. However, some "tactics" change the difficulty of the game so dramatically that many find them inappropriate to use.



In any case, it's kinda silly to brag "Force Field Tank > Ser Cauthrain" when folks mention she's the toughest fight in the game.

It's kinda like saying "Console Invulnerability > Ser Cauthrain."



I mean yes exploiting enemy AI using force field makes the Ser Cauthrain fight easier; it makes all fights easier. This wasn't some special insight unique to this particular fight.

[lazuli]

WillieStyle wrote...

In any case, it's kinda silly to brag "Force Field Tank > Ser Cauthrain" when folks mention she's the toughest fight in the game.
It's kinda like saying "Console Invulnerability > Ser Cauthrain."

But to respond with your own, equally gaming slang laden remark about "lern"ing"2nightmare" probably wasn't the best way to get that point across.  I'm not claiming to have invented force field tanking, or that using it makes me a better player than anyone else.  I certainly could have phrased my statement better to clarify that, though.