164 réponses à ce sujet

[Mr Deathbot]

  So, I recently completed another playthrough of Mass Effects 1-3. During that my time playing ME3 I decided to try and think of a way to beat the reapers conventionally. I couldn't think of anything, until I came across the (what I thought) obvious solution of using EMPs against them. Though that obviously wouldn't work since they'd have some defense against the most obvious way to kill them. I mean they wouldn't pin their entire survival on the chance that each civilization they harvest doesn't have EMPs, right?...Right?

  When I got to the ending I went for the destroy ending. As we all know the destroy ending wipes out all reapers, synthetics, technology, etc. Now, as I watched husks and reapers fall over and slump into giant paper weights. I realized something, not only were thousands of people dying when the Reapers fell on top of them, the destroy option is also just a giant EMP. Since the Reapers all died by it, that shows that they don't have any defense against EMPs.

  So, basically the Reapers were going on the trust system here. Their entire existence hinged on whether or not a civilization had a use for EMPs or not...Well, obviously this was an effective method since they harvested millions of civilizations without any of them using an EMP.

  Now, I'd like to know why nobody came up with the idea to try and use this against the Reapers. Now, even if you thought the Reapers would have a defense against it, it still seems like something worth trying. However, no EMPs are ever seen or mentioned in Mass Effect. So what I can gather is that nobody can find a use for what seems to be the most powerful weapon in the galaxy, especially since nobody can come up with a defense against it.

  Now, the stupidity of every sentient being in the galaxy aside, this still proves that Reapers can be beaten conventionally. The crucible, the driving force for ME3's story, was based on the fact that Reapers can't be beaten conventionally. Well, now we know they can, which makes the crucible pointless which in turn makes all of ME3's storyline pointless too. Don't get me wrong I still love ME3 (even with all it's flaws) I just thought of this and thought it was funny/interesting.

  I don't know, what do you guys think? Am I wrong about the whole EMP thing? Or am I just thinking too far into this and I should just leave it alone?

 

Modifié par Mr Deathbot, 16 janvier 2014 - 04:53 .

[CrutchCricket]

The red wave isn't a regular EMP. It's a Space Magic EMP that is sentient and can distinguish between "bad" tech and "good" tech and is courteous enough to leave the good tech alone.

The Reapers would be shielded against EMP attacks because as you say, it's the obvious thing to try given their mechanical appearance. But the space magic EMP still affects them because...art I guess?

[Obadiah]

Isn't the Destroy blast an FTL speed blast (on the galactic map)? I think that means it isn't EMP, but some kind of dark energy blast.

Modifié par Obadiah, 16 janvier 2014 - 05:07 .

[Mr Deathbot]

Obadiah wrote...

Isn't the Destroy blast an FTL speed blast (on the galactic map)? I think that means it isn't EMP, but some kind of dark energy blast.

I don't know, there isn't a whole lot of information on the crucible or catylyst. I'm just going off the fact that it took out all technology but avoided all organics. That sounds a lot like an EMP to me, I don't know what else it could be.

[Excella Gionne]

Because that EMP technology would be related to the Reapers since every technology is a variation of Reaper technology, and so, it is irrelevant. Destroy is not an EMP, it's energy from the Crucible combined with the Citadel. The crucible itself is energy and it needs a way to disperse its energy. Since it's made to be attached to the Citadel, and its intent is to offer new solutions to the Catalyst itself, the Reaper A.I., if a solution is made that uses the Crucible's energy, the Citadel + Catalyst will disperse an energy to the galaxy. Remember, Destroy is not an EMP, because it does flay people alive too. So no, the Crucible is not useless, nor is it irrelevant.

[Mr Deathbot]

CrutchCricket wrote...

The red wave isn't a regular EMP. It's a Space Magic EMP that is sentient and can distinguish between "bad" tech and "good" tech and is courteous enough to leave the good tech alone.

The Reapers would be shielded against EMP attacks because as you say, it's the obvious thing to try given their mechanical appearance. But the space magic EMP still affects them because...art I guess?

Ahhhh, of course, how could I be so silly? It's so obvious, why didn't I think of this?

[CronoDragoon]

Is that why Destroy incinerates Earth at low EMS? Because it's an EMP?

Mr Deathbot wrote...
 I don't know, there isn't a whole lot of information on the crucible or catylyst. I'm just going off the fact that it took out all technology but avoided all organics. That sounds a lot like an EMP to me, I don't know what else it could be.

Don't think about it much. It's a magic wand that somehow groups networked VI (the geth) blue-box A.I. (EDI) and synthetic implants (Shepard) under the the same umbrella. It doesn't make sense, but I doubt it's an EMP.

That goes for every ME game though, not just 3: don't think about it much. Plot points break down in all of them if you pay too much attention (though nothing is quite as wtf as Synthesis).

Modifié par CronoDragoon, 16 janvier 2014 - 05:14 .

[MyChemicalBromance]

>Thinks Reapers can move through space as freely as they do without being electromagnetically shielded.
>Thinks the means by which Reapers and Ships discharge into atmosphere doesn't imply anything.

>Clearly doesn't know what EMPs are.
>Calls everyone in the galaxy stupid for not following his own ignorance.

Modifié par MyChemicalBromance, 16 janvier 2014 - 05:16 .

[Mr Deathbot]

johnnythao89 wrote...

Because that EMP technology would be related to the Reapers since every technology is a variation of Reaper technology, and so, it is irrelevant. Destroy is not an EMP, it's energy from the Crucible combined with the Citadel. The crucible itself is energy and it needs a way to disperse its energy. Since it's made to be attached to the Citadel, and its intent is to offer new solutions to the Catalyst itself, the Reaper A.I., if a solution is made that uses the Crucible's energy, the Citadel + Catalyst will disperse an energy to the galaxy. Remember, Destroy is not an EMP, because it does flay people alive too. So no, the Crucible is not useless, nor is it irrelevant.

Maybe when it flays people alive you just shot the wrong tube and accidentally selected the nuke option.
Still, I'd like to know how the whole Crucible, Catalyst, Citadel thing works. Since the explanation for it is a bit iffy.

[Excella Gionne]

Mr Deathbot wrote...

johnnythao89 wrote...

Because that EMP technology would be related to the Reapers since every technology is a variation of Reaper technology, and so, it is irrelevant. Destroy is not an EMP, it's energy from the Crucible combined with the Citadel. The crucible itself is energy and it needs a way to disperse its energy. Since it's made to be attached to the Citadel, and its intent is to offer new solutions to the Catalyst itself, the Reaper A.I., if a solution is made that uses the Crucible's energy, the Citadel + Catalyst will disperse an energy to the galaxy. Remember, Destroy is not an EMP, because it does flay people alive too. So no, the Crucible is not useless, nor is it irrelevant.

Maybe when it flays people alive you just shot the wrong tube and accidentally selected the nuke option.
Still, I'd like to know how the whole Crucible, Catalyst, Citadel thing works. Since the explanation for it is a bit iffy.

There are loopholes in it, but the flaying people alive part only occurs if the Crucible is damaged.

[Mr Deathbot]

MyChemicalBromance wrote...

>Thinks Reapers can move through space as freely as they do without being electromagnetically shielded.
>Thinks the means by which Reapers and Ships discharge into atmosphere doesn't imply anything.
>Clearly doesn't know what EMPs are.
>Calls everyone in the galaxy stupid for not following his own ignorance.

Thanks for the kind and informative post. I'm really glad you didn't post a sarcastic half assed post which tries to correct me but gives no reasons for why I'm wrong.

[Mr Deathbot]

CronoDragoon wrote...

Is that why Destroy incinerates Earth at low EMS? Because it's an EMP?

Mr Deathbot wrote...
 I don't know, there isn't a whole lot of information on the crucible or catylyst. I'm just going off the fact that it took out all technology but avoided all organics. That sounds a lot like an EMP to me, I don't know what else it could be.

Don't think about it much. It's a magic wand that somehow groups networked VI (the geth) blue-box A.I. (EDI) and synthetic implants (Shepard) under the the same umbrella. It doesn't make sense, but I doubt it's an EMP.

That goes for every ME game though, not just 3: don't think about it much. Plot points break down in all of them if you pay too much attention (though nothing is quite as wtf as Synthesis).

I'll admit I didn't think about the whole incineration thing. I guess that's partly because I've never seen nor had that ending. Regardless, it still bugs me that they never tried to use an EMP...I guess I can overlook it though.

[Dean_the_Young]

Mr Deathbot wrote...

MyChemicalBromance wrote...

>Thinks Reapers can move through space as freely as they do without being electromagnetically shielded.
>Thinks the means by which Reapers and Ships discharge into atmosphere doesn't imply anything.
>Clearly doesn't know what EMPs are.
>Calls everyone in the galaxy stupid for not following his own ignorance.

Thanks for the kind and informative post. I'm really glad you didn't post a sarcastic half assed post which tries to correct me but gives no reasons for why I'm wrong.

Yeah. Calling your OP a half-assed post would be giving it half the credit it was due.

[Cainhurst Crow]

tbh having the reapers be a looming and imminent threat was pointless. Could have made it off by another 50,000, 100,000, even 200,000 years away, enough for people to prepare and attempt to go on the offensive, or forget about them over more immediate problems. Would have probably served the story much better to have the reapers stopped at ME1 and focus on other threats, possibly reaper origin, possibly not, either way you don't handcuff yourself to a end of the world scenario so soon.

Our planet, for example, will one day be swallowed up by the sun, and our solar system will burn as our precious lifebearing orb finally burns out it's last fuel, and goes supernova, if not turning into a blackhole and swallowing any trace of our existence from the galaxy.

It's millions if not billions of years away. Nobody is freaking out over it, and for good reason. Reapers should have been more like that.

[Evo_9]

You know....there was always a conventional way to beat the reapers.

Vigil in ME1 says that they are vulnerable while in hibernation in dark space.

Shepard knew this...why didn't they attack the reapers in dark space?

They could of exaggerated the vulnerability so much that it meant they could be beaten if taken by surprise.

They don't know where the reapers are you say? Well im sure they could come up with something that enabled shepard to locate them with the help of the info from lost ruins on ilos or something.

Anything would of made more sense than to run with this whole cruicible plot

Modifié par Evo_9, 16 janvier 2014 - 06:05 .

[MyChemicalBromance]

Evo_9 wrote...

You know....there was always a conventional way to beat the reapers.

Vigil in ME1 says that they are vulnerable while in hibernation in dark space.

Shepard knew this...why didn't they attack the reapers in dark space?

They don't know where the reapers are you say? Well im sure they could come up with something that enabled shepard to locate them with the help of the info from lost ruins on ilos or something.

Anything would of made more sense than to run with this whole cruicible plot

Some outside media (I think it was twitter) said that the Reapers started traveling back as soon as Sovereign died (this actually correlates with the distance estimates for their location in dark space given in a codex entry in ME3). So there really would have been no way for Shepard to get there when they were "asleep", and even then there's nothing to suggest they couldn't power up once they were beginning to be attacked.

[Excella Gionne]

Evo_9 wrote...

You know....there was always a conventional way to beat the reapers.

Vigil in ME1 says that they are vulnerable while in hibernation in dark space.

Shepard knew this...why didn't they attack the reapers in dark space?

They could of exaggerated the vulnerability so much that it meant they could be beaten if taken by surprise.

They don't know where the reapers are you say? Well im sure they could come up with something that enabled shepard to locate them with the help of the info from lost ruins on ilos or something.

Anything would of made more sense than to run with this whole cruicible plot

Dark Space is ridiculously far. And they'll be attacking blind. Traveling between systems should take you thousands of years, but thanks to Mass Relays, it's only minutes or seconds.

[Cainhurst Crow]

Evo_9 wrote...

You know....there was always a conventional way to beat the reapers.

Vigil in ME1 says that they are vulnerable while in hibernation in dark space.

Shepard knew this...why didn't they attack the reapers in dark space?

They could of exaggerated the vulnerability so much that it meant they could be beaten if taken by surprise.

They don't know where the reapers are you say? Well im sure they could come up with something that enabled shepard to locate them with the help of the info from lost ruins on ilos or something.

Anything would of made more sense than to run with this whole cruicible plot

Flying into dark space isn't conventional, it's actually the opposite of conventional because there is no mass relays we can access that go into dark space and not enough fuel that we could fly around forever looking for them. It'd take centuries to cover even a fraction of dark space, most of the missions being suicide ones with  high chance of being stranded outside the milky way galaxy forever.

As I have said, better to leave the reapers in the dark and for a long way off. Like the white walkers of game of thrones and the gap of thousands of years before their return.

Modifié par Darth Brotarian, 16 janvier 2014 - 06:13 .

[Evo_9]

MyChemicalBromance wrote...

Evo_9 wrote...

You know....there was always a conventional way to beat the reapers.

Vigil in ME1 says that they are vulnerable while in hibernation in dark space.

Shepard knew this...why didn't they attack the reapers in dark space?

They don't know where the reapers are you say? Well im sure they could come up with something that enabled shepard to locate them with the help of the info from lost ruins on ilos or something.

Anything would of made more sense than to run with this whole cruicible plot

Some outside media (I think it was twitter) said that the Reapers started traveling back as soon as Sovereign died (this actually correlates with the distance estimates for their location in dark space given in a codex entry in ME3). So there really would have been no way for Shepard to get there when they were "asleep", and even then there's nothing to suggest they couldn't power up once they were beginning to be attacked.

yeah but they could of restructured the whole plot from ME1 to make it so that...i dunno.....the reapers didn't know that soverign was dead (they are all independent nations) and that soverign had to send a signal of some kind for them to reactivate.

So the galaxy could of taken as long as they wanted to travel to dark space and attack the reapers.

Or even if dark space is too far away, how about they find plans to build a fleet with much more speed and power, from plans left by the leviathans....as opposed to finding plans to build some magic weapon that can kill reapers.

Modifié par Evo_9, 16 janvier 2014 - 06:16 .

[Mcfly616]

ME2's story still takes the cake when comes to being "pointless".

[MyChemicalBromance]

Evo_9 wrote...

MyChemicalBromance wrote...

Evo_9 wrote...

You know....there was always a conventional way to beat the reapers.

Vigil in ME1 says that they are vulnerable while in hibernation in dark space.

Shepard knew this...why didn't they attack the reapers in dark space?

They don't know where the reapers are you say? Well im sure they could come up with something that enabled shepard to locate them with the help of the info from lost ruins on ilos or something.

Anything would of made more sense than to run with this whole cruicible plot

Some outside media (I think it was twitter) said that the Reapers started traveling back as soon as Sovereign died (this actually correlates with the distance estimates for their location in dark space given in a codex entry in ME3). So there really would have been no way for Shepard to get there when they were "asleep", and even then there's nothing to suggest they couldn't power up once they were beginning to be attacked.

yeah but they could of restructured the whole plot from ME1 to make it so that...i dunno.....the reapers didn't know that soverign was dead (they are all independent nations) and that soverign had to send a signal of some kind for them to reactivate.

So the galaxy could of taken as long as they wanted to travel to dark space and attack the reapers.

Or even if dark space is too far away, how about they find plans to build a fleet with much more speed and power, from plans left by the leviathans....as opposed to finding plans to build some magic weapon that can kill reapers.

Somehow I don't think what essentially boils down to murdering someone in their bed would be the action-packed conclusion they were looking for

As for the other option, you're just exchanging one fix-it button for another.

[Evo_9]

MyChemicalBromance wrote...

Evo_9 wrote...

MyChemicalBromance wrote...

Evo_9 wrote...

You know....there was always a conventional way to beat the reapers.

Vigil in ME1 says that they are vulnerable while in hibernation in dark space.

Shepard knew this...why didn't they attack the reapers in dark space?

They don't know where the reapers are you say? Well im sure they could come up with something that enabled shepard to locate them with the help of the info from lost ruins on ilos or something.

Anything would of made more sense than to run with this whole cruicible plot

Some outside media (I think it was twitter) said that the Reapers started traveling back as soon as Sovereign died (this actually correlates with the distance estimates for their location in dark space given in a codex entry in ME3). So there really would have been no way for Shepard to get there when they were "asleep", and even then there's nothing to suggest they couldn't power up once they were beginning to be attacked.

yeah but they could of restructured the whole plot from ME1 to make it so that...i dunno.....the reapers didn't know that soverign was dead (they are all independent nations) and that soverign had to send a signal of some kind for them to reactivate.

So the galaxy could of taken as long as they wanted to travel to dark space and attack the reapers.

Or even if dark space is too far away, how about they find plans to build a fleet with much more speed and power, from plans left by the leviathans....as opposed to finding plans to build some magic weapon that can kill reapers.

Somehow I don't think what essentially boils down to murdering someone in their bed would be the action-packed conclusion they were looking for

As for the other option, you're just exchanging one fix-it button for another.

lol

im sure they could of made it exciting.

Now that I remember....the citadel is a big mass relay that connects to dark space, as explained by vigil. There you go!
The good thing about this fix it button though is that there would be no catalyst

ANyways, just saying there could of been a conventional way to beat the reapers that doesn't involve magic space rays.

[Almostfaceman]

Evo_9 wrote...

lol

im sure they could of made it exciting.

Now that I remember....the citadel is a big mass relay that connects to dark space, as explained by vigil. There you go!
The good thing about this fix it button though is that there would be no catalyst

ANyways, just saying there could of been a conventional way to beat the reapers that doesn't involve magic space rays.

This is the direction I kinda expected the writers to go when Vigil first revealed that the Citadel was a direct link to the Reaper location in Dark Space. I hoped we'd get to travel to where the Reapers were and sneak attack them. Or something... but hey whatever and space magic.

[sevalaricgirl]

I think the ending is pointless too. I think Bioware really screwed up on it and I will blame it on the writers and the guy who gave the okay. I have the MEHEM because I can't stand the BW endings to it.

[MattFini]

Mcfly616 wrote...

ME2's story still takes the cake when comes to being "pointless".

Only because ME3 made it that way.