164 réponses à ce sujet

[Iakus]

sevalaricgirl wrote...

I think the ending is pointless too. I think Bioware really screwed up on it and I will blame it on the writers and the guy who gave the okay. I have the MEHEM because I can't stand the BW endings to it.

All of this.

And my biggest fear for whatever game comes next is that they'll try to build off of ME3 somehow.

[sevalaricgirl]

iakus wrote...

sevalaricgirl wrote...

I think the ending is pointless too. I think Bioware really screwed up on it and I will blame it on the writers and the guy who gave the okay. I have the MEHEM because I can't stand the BW endings to it.

All of this.

And my biggest fear for whatever game comes next is that they'll try to build off of ME3 somehow.

I completely agree.  It's a damned shame too because it could have been so much better.  Bioware seems to be in a rut with writing.  The company needs to hire different but talented writers and they need to rethink the meaning of RPGs, specifically to add endings for all of their player base.  The Dragon Age team is trying to do that with Inquisition.  I hope the new ME team does likewise.  I really, really like ME3 until the ending and hope whatever they have in store for ME4 completely moves away from ME3's canned ending. 

[AlanC9]

sevalaricgirl wrote...
 The company needs to hire different but talented writers and they need to rethink the meaning of RPGs, specifically to add endings for all of their player base.  

This is part of the meaning of RPG? I can see it as being the meaning of "RPGs sevalaricgirl likes," but that's not quite the same thing.

[Iakus]

AlanC9 wrote...

sevalaricgirl wrote...
 The company needs to hire different but talented writers and they need to rethink the meaning of RPGs, specifically to add endings for all of their player base.  

This is part of the meaning of RPG? I can see it as being the meaning of "RPGs sevalaricgirl likes," but that's not quite the same thing.

Certainly part of the concept of narrative-based RPGs, which Bioware has been doing for a good fifteen years and lately seems to be slipping. 

The three most important parts of telling a good story are the beginning, the middle, and the end, after all.

[BaladasDemnevanni]

iakus wrote...

Certainly part of the concept of narrative-based RPGs, which Bioware has been doing for a good fifteen years and lately seems to be slipping. 

RPG does not translate to "game that I like". That's a distinction that a lot of people seem to forget, half-assed ending or not.

[AlanC9]

iakus wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

sevalaricgirl wrote...
 The company needs to hire different but talented writers and they need to rethink the meaning of RPGs, specifically to add endings for all of their player base.  

This is part of the meaning of RPG? I can see it as being the meaning of "RPGs sevalaricgirl likes," but that's not quite the same thing.

Certainly part of the concept of narrative-based RPGs, which Bioware has been doing for a good fifteen years and lately seems to be slipping. 

I don't see the actual argument here. Why should RPGs be limited in that way? I don't always have an available choice in the RW that I like; why should my RPG characters be guaranteed one?

Modifié par AlanC9, 16 janvier 2014 - 09:33 .

[Dean_the_Young]

AlanC9 wrote...

iakus wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

sevalaricgirl wrote...
 The company needs to hire different but talented writers and they need to rethink the meaning of RPGs, specifically to add endings for all of their player base.  

This is part of the meaning of RPG? I can see it as being the meaning of "RPGs sevalaricgirl likes," but that's not quite the same thing.

Certainly part of the concept of narrative-based RPGs, which Bioware has been doing for a good fifteen years and lately seems to be slipping. 

I don't see the actual argument here. Why should RPGs be limited in that way? I don't always have an available choice in the RW that I like; why should my RPG characters be guaranteed one?

Moreover, what's unique in the recent games that can't be aimed at the older games? Certainly DAO, ME1, Jade Empire, and KOTOR had their own fair share of railroading, fixed dialogue paths (and painfully limited unique dialogue routes), and canonical player character interests. No matter how skeptical a player may feel about the Urn of Ashes quest, for example, you still do it... even if you'd rather just smother Eamon with a pillow and move on with it rather than waste time on a wild goose chase.

[Mr Deathbot]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Mr Deathbot wrote...

MyChemicalBromance wrote...

>Thinks Reapers can move through space as freely as they do without being electromagnetically shielded.
>Thinks the means by which Reapers and Ships discharge into atmosphere doesn't imply anything.
>Clearly doesn't know what EMPs are.
>Calls everyone in the galaxy stupid for not following his own ignorance.

Thanks for the kind and informative post. I'm really glad you didn't post a sarcastic half assed post which tries to correct me but gives no reasons for why I'm wrong.

Yeah. Calling your OP a half-assed post would be giving it half the credit it was due.

What? That made no sense whatsoever, no one ever called my OP a half-assed post. I don't see how calling someone else's post a half-assed post correlates with my post being half assed. Also, "Calling your OP a half-assed post would be giving it half the credit it was due" ? Soooo, what you're saying is that I "assed" my OP? What does that even mean? Well, half assing something lazily or carelessly. So that would mean assing something is to do it carefully and very precise. I guess you just called my OP a well written, thought out, informative piece of literature, so thanks!

[Comrade Wakizashi]

I think the Crucible galactical blast of immense destruction is not comparable to a regular EMP weapon. Sure, you could make an EMP weapon, and maybe you could even destroy a Reaper with it easily. But would you think it'd doable to EMP-blast every single Reaper in the galaxy? That would take years, not to mention a single coordinated Reaper attack could easily dismantle your EMP weapon.
You'd need hundreds of thousands of those machines, and there really is no time for that in the small amount of time you have left before imminent destruction by Reapers.

[BaladasDemnevanni]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

iakus wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

sevalaricgirl wrote...
 The company needs to hire different but talented writers and they need to rethink the meaning of RPGs, specifically to add endings for all of their player base.  

This is part of the meaning of RPG? I can see it as being the meaning of "RPGs sevalaricgirl likes," but that's not quite the same thing.

Certainly part of the concept of narrative-based RPGs, which Bioware has been doing for a good fifteen years and lately seems to be slipping. 

I don't see the actual argument here. Why should RPGs be limited in that way? I don't always have an available choice in the RW that I like; why should my RPG characters be guaranteed one?

Moreover, what's unique in the recent games that can't be aimed at the older games? Certainly DAO, ME1, Jade Empire, and KOTOR had their own fair share of railroading, fixed dialogue paths (and painfully limited unique dialogue routes), and canonical player character interests. No matter how skeptical a player may feel about the Urn of Ashes quest, for example, you still do it... even if you'd rather just smother Eamon with a pillow and move on with it rather than waste time on a wild goose chase.

Generally this. I can understand criticizing a game for not providing an option you'd like.

But I don't see how a game not providing an option like "I want Shepard to survive" converts to a non-RPG any more than the fact that I don't have the ability to side with Saren and help usher in the Reaper dark age.

[Nightwriter]

MyChemicalBromance wrote...

Evo_9 wrote...

You know....there was always a conventional way to beat the reapers.

Vigil in ME1 says that they are vulnerable while in hibernation in dark space.

Shepard knew this...why didn't they attack the reapers in dark space?

They don't know where the reapers are you say? Well im sure they could come up with something that enabled shepard to locate them with the help of the info from lost ruins on ilos or something.

Anything would of made more sense than to run with this whole cruicible plot

Some outside media (I think it was twitter) said that the Reapers started traveling back as soon as Sovereign died (this actually correlates with the distance estimates for their location in dark space given in a codex entry in ME3). So there really would have been no way for Shepard to get there when they were "asleep", and even then there's nothing to suggest they couldn't power up once they were beginning to be attacked.

How did that even happen? For me there was a lack of clarity there reaching as far back as ME1. I remember the first time I heard Shepard say "it's not over -- they're still coming" and walk away dramatically I was kind of surprised because I'd closed the Citadel relay to them and it wasn't made clear that Sovereign had managed to wake the rest up or that it was possible for them to travel here on their own in Shepard's lifetime.

[AlanC9]

Mr Deathbot wrote...

What? That made no sense whatsoever, no one ever called my OP a half-assed post. I don't see how calling someone else's post a half-assed post correlates with my post being half assed.

Also, "Calling your OP a half-assed post would be giving it half the credit it was due" ? Soooo, what you're saying is that I "assed" my OP? What does that even mean? Well, half assing something lazily or carelessly. So that would mean assing something is to do it carefully and very precise. I guess you just called my OP a well written, thought out, informative piece of literature, so thanks!

I'm pretty sure he meant that your post was quarter-assed.

[Gkonone]

Whenever you use abbreviations, explain them first. No idea what EMP is.

[AlanC9]

Gkonone wrote...

Whenever you use abbreviations, explain them first. No idea what EMP is.

You could just google it, you know.

[Gkonone]

AlanC9 wrote...

Gkonone wrote...

Whenever you use abbreviations, explain them first. No idea what EMP is.

You could just google it, you know.

I could, but I shouldn't have to. When you write a thesis, paper or whatever, you are required to be clear. Every abbreviation has to be explained up front.
Following your 'google it' advise, people can be as unclear as they want, because you can always look it up, don't you?

[AlanC9]

EMP is a pretty common term. It wouldn't have occurred to me that more than a handful of people wouldn't know what it meant either.

[OdanUrr]

Mr Deathbot wrote...

I don't know, what do you guys think? Am I wrong about the whole EMP thing? Or am I just thinking too far into this and I should just leave it alone?

It's not an EMP but it's as good an analogy as any.

[Dean_the_Young]

AlanC9 wrote...

Mr Deathbot wrote...

What? That made no sense whatsoever, no one ever called my OP a half-assed post. I don't see how calling someone else's post a half-assed post correlates with my post being half assed.

Also, "Calling your OP a half-assed post would be giving it half the credit it was due" ? Soooo, what you're saying is that I "assed" my OP? What does that even mean? Well, half assing something lazily or carelessly. So that would mean assing something is to do it carefully and very precise. I guess you just called my OP a well written, thought out, informative piece of literature, so thanks!

I'm pretty sure he meant that your post was quarter-assed.

Oh, come on Alan- don't explain the joke. Seeing her twirl her wheels like that would have been great.

[MyChemicalBromance]

Nightwriter wrote...

MyChemicalBromance wrote...

Evo_9 wrote...

You know....there was always a conventional way to beat the reapers.

Vigil in ME1 says that they are vulnerable while in hibernation in dark space.

Shepard knew this...why didn't they attack the reapers in dark space?

They don't know where the reapers are you say? Well im sure they could come up with something that enabled shepard to locate them with the help of the info from lost ruins on ilos or something.

Anything would of made more sense than to run with this whole cruicible plot

Some outside media (I think it was twitter) said that the Reapers started traveling back as soon as Sovereign died (this actually correlates with the distance estimates for their location in dark space given in a codex entry in ME3). So there really would have been no way for Shepard to get there when they were "asleep", and even then there's nothing to suggest they couldn't power up once they were beginning to be attacked.

How did that even happen? For me there was a lack of clarity there reaching as far back as ME1. I remember the first time I heard Shepard say "it's not over -- they're still coming" and walk away dramatically I was kind of surprised because I'd closed the Citadel relay to them and it wasn't made clear that Sovereign had managed to wake the rest up or that it was possible for them to travel here on their own in Shepard's lifetime.

I don't think that's what that scene was meant to imply (nor was that the impression I got).


The way I saw it, it was simply an acknowledgement by Shepard that the rest of the Reapers were still out there somewhere, and just because we've shutdown one means of them returning doesn't mean it's the only one. I guess I never interpreted it that way because, just with the known (as in from Vigil) information, it seems more foolish for Shepard to assume the threat is forever passed than it is for him/her to be worried.

You have to remember that the revelation of the Citadel's purpose came less than an hour before that point; the feeling of "we've been in their trap the whole time!" was still fresh for players and for Shepard.

Modifié par MyChemicalBromance, 17 janvier 2014 - 05:40 .

[Darth Death]

Mcfly616 wrote...

ME2's story still takes the cake when comes to being "pointless".

Even then, I still prefer ME2 more so than ME3. 

[Cainhurst Crow]

Any story where we fight the reapers head on is one doomed to be resolved with a deus ex machina, mcguffin, permanent enemy idiot ball, and underwhelming delivery.

Don't make ME2, ME3, ME4, ME5, ME6, ME: Reevolution, whatever other game, about the reapers coming at all. Have them done with ME1 and focus on creating other galactic threats.

[Axdinosaurx]

Darth Brotarian wrote...

Any story where we fight the reapers head on is one doomed to be resolved with a deus ex machina, mcguffin, permanent enemy idiot ball, and underwhelming delivery.

Don't make ME2, ME3, ME4, ME5, ME6, ME: Reevolution, whatever other game, about the reapers coming at all. Have them done with ME1 and focus on creating other galactic threats.

This human understands.

[R4ZOR GHO5T]

CrutchCricket wrote...

The red wave isn't a regular EMP. It's a Space Magic EMP that is sentient and can distinguish between "bad" tech and "good" tech and is courteous enough to leave the good tech alone.

The Reapers would be shielded against EMP attacks because as you say, it's the obvious thing to try given their mechanical appearance. But the space magic EMP still affects them because...art I guess?

[Comrade Wakizashi]

I still wonder how you can expect humanity or the Citadel species to construct a super EMP weapon in a matter of weeks. Not to mention it has to be powerful enough to beam through the entire galaxy by use of the relays.

By the way, the games never say the Reapers can't be defeated by conventional means. In fact, you destroy three Reapers in the process of ME3 by conventional means (okay, maybe a thresher maw isn't exactly conventional, but still). You take down a reaper by means of a damn grenade launcher (and a space bombardment, but shh). That is pretty conventional.
Several Reapers get destroyed by space ships in the course of the space battle around Earth as well.

So yes, the Reaper can in fact be destroyed conventionally. The problem is you'll lose thousands for every single Reaper, so in the end you just won't have enough manpower to do it conventionally. That is the real problem.

[Br3admax]

Comrade Wakizashi wrote...

I still wonder how you can expect humanity or the Citadel species to construct a super EMP weapon in a matter of weeks. Not to mention it has to be powerful enough to beam through the entire galaxy by use of the relays.

By the way, the games never say the Reapers can't be defeated by conventional means. In fact, you destroy three Reapers in the process of ME3 by conventional means (okay, maybe a thresher maw isn't exactly conventional, but still). You take down a reaper by means of a damn grenade launcher (and a space bombardment, but shh). That is pretty conventional.
Several Reapers get destroyed by space ships in the course of the space battle around Earth as well.

So yes, the Reaper can in fact be destroyed conventionally. The problem is you'll lose thousands for every single Reaper, so in the end you just won't have enough manpower to do it conventionally. That is the real problem.

No one said that they couldn't be fought conventionally. That is what you are describing. We said that they couldn't be defeated, as in we win, conventionally, which is show even by the game. 

Modifié par Br3ad, 17 janvier 2014 - 12:33 .