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[TheMyron]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

TheMyron wrote...

ME2 was just fine; the first major step in salvaging ME3 was by NOT having Shepard locked up doing absolutely nothing for preparation...

In ME2's ending I felt happy, from the way the characters move around and how Shepard looks at the datapad that Joker hands him, I was hoping that maybe Shepard would be doing something useful until the Reaper invasion, like spreading the word with his new proofs...

What new proofs? A datapad is just more made-up digits, as far as a galaxy in which fabricated video is indiscernable from real recordings is concerned.

But, really, if you have to hope for Shepard to be doing something useful after the game ends...

No, stupid, "useful" as opposed to letting oneself be locked up for B.S. reasons.  The datapad Shepard was holding at the end of ME2 has extra details on the Reapers, and then we are shown that the Reapers are still months out, so Shepard can now concentrate on trying to convince the council with his new findings. If the Council fails, he goes on to all other top brass to see if anyone listens.

As Joker says at the beginning of ME3, he was hoping that maybe some people were "secretly" preparing for the Reaper invasion.

[AlanC9]

You think he didn't show that data to people? 

[TheMyron]

AlanC9 wrote...

You think he didn't show that data to people? 

Nope, the same person who said, "The Citadel? The fight is here!" went straight to prison after ME2....

Modifié par TheMyron, 20 janvier 2014 - 11:18 .

[His Name was HYR!!]

Or maybe that datapad was just there "for show" and had no meaningful value whatsoever.

Just a thought!

I mean, if we're relying on an image that was shown for < 2 seconds as some kind of vital information or development to drive the main plot forward, I'd say we've already failed.

Modifié par HYR 2.0, 20 janvier 2014 - 11:37 .

[ImaginaryMatter]

I thought the implication of the data pad was that information about the Reapers was collected or reaped (har har) from the Collector Base, and that the specifics weren't explored because the writers had no idea how they wanted the story to progress and/or they didn't want to ruin the ending cinematic -- which for me is one of the greatest Mass Effect moments ever, so many bro nods and manly stares. Say what you will about ME2's story or lack of one, but I think the cutscenes in that game were the best in the series.

[Dean_the_Young]

TheMyron wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

TheMyron wrote...

ME2 was just fine; the first major step in salvaging ME3 was by NOT having Shepard locked up doing absolutely nothing for preparation...

In ME2's ending I felt happy, from the way the characters move around and how Shepard looks at the datapad that Joker hands him, I was hoping that maybe Shepard would be doing something useful until the Reaper invasion, like spreading the word with his new proofs...

What new proofs? A datapad is just more made-up digits, as far as a galaxy in which fabricated video is indiscernable from real recordings is concerned.

But, really, if you have to hope for Shepard to be doing something useful after the game ends...

No, stupid, "useful" as opposed to letting oneself be locked up for B.S. reasons. 

Since when is trying to prevent a Human-Batarian war on the eve of the Reaper arrival a B.S. reason?

The datapad Shepard was holding at the end of ME2 has extra details on the Reapers, and then we are shown that the Reapers are still months out, so Shepard can now concentrate on trying to convince the council with his new findings. If the Council fails, he goes on to all other top brass to see if anyone listens.

Where does the game ever present a claim that the datapad has any significant extra details?

All we see is, like, a picture of Harbinger. And the narrative doesn't even address the data pad in the post-base content, to suggest it has any further role past the cutscene cut-away.

As Joker says at the beginning of ME3, he was hoping that maybe some people were "secretly" preparing for the Reaper invasion.

And it would have had to be a secret because the plot of ME2 repeatedly, consistently, and unequivocally established that no one was, two and a half years after ME1.

[CrutchCricket]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Since when is trying to prevent a Human-Batarian war on the eve of the Reaper arrival a B.S. reason?

Since preventing that war doesn't actually require his capture? His incarceration is explicitly said to be merely political and thus only there to blow smoke up the batarian's asses. And one political smoke blowing is just as good as another. All the Alliance needs to do is be seen making every effort to catch him. But if he's got a undetectable ship and is being backed by other alien forces, rumor has it even by the Shadow Broker, well they can't help that now can they?

"We have to chase him." -Jim Gordon.

But that's not to say he has to let himself be caught.

And it would have had to be a secret because the plot of ME2 repeatedly, consistently, and unequivocally established that no one was, two and a half years after ME1.

And things have never before in the history of fiction been retconned. More to the point though: if the past two years have been pissed away, wasting the last six months in the same manner is even more inexcusable.

[ruggly]

Pointless? Not in my opinion. Could have used some more work in certains areas? Yes, again in my opinion.

[Dean_the_Young]

CrutchCricket wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Since when is trying to prevent a Human-Batarian war on the eve of the Reaper arrival a B.S. reason?

Since preventing that war doesn't actually require his capture? His incarceration is explicitly said to be merely political and thus only there to blow smoke up the batarian's asses. And one political smoke blowing is just as good as another. All the Alliance needs to do is be seen making every effort to catch him. But if he's got a undetectable ship and is being backed by other alien forces, rumor has it even by the Shadow Broker, well they can't help that now can they?

"We have to chase him." -Jim Gordon.

But that's not to say he has to let himself be caught.

And that's not to say the Batarians have to not go to war with the Alliance, either. If the Batarians are willing to go to war if the Alliance made no effort whatsoever, they are equally capable of going to war if the Alliance doesn't produce enough results to satisfy them as well. Or even if the Alliance does, come to that.

Alas, not all political smoke was blown equally. Some is demanded to be inhaled.

And it would have had to be a secret because the plot of ME2 repeatedly, consistently, and unequivocally established that no one was, two and a half years after ME1.

And things have never before in the history of fiction been retconned. More to the point though: if the past two years have been pissed away, wasting the last six months in the same manner is even more inexcusable.

Retconing is done when the past material was inadverdantly insufficient or accidental. ME2's decision that the galaxy would be caught unprepared by the Reapers was deliberate.

Modifié par Dean_the_Young, 21 janvier 2014 - 02:10 .

[Sebby]

TheMyron wrote...

Argentoid wrote...

Way before ME3 was even released, people were calling ME2 pointless. 

ME2 would not have been pointless if Shepard didn't turn himself in... Those six-to-eight months he could have been making himself useful elsewhere in the galaxy.

By solving more daddy issues and fighting more inconsequential mercs?

[Mr.House]

TheMyron wrote...

ME2 was just fine; the first major step in salvaging ME3 was by NOT having Shepard locked up doing absolutely nothing for preparation...

In ME2's ending I felt happy, from the way the characters move around and how Shepard looks at the datapad that Joker hands him, I was hoping that maybe Shepard would be doing something useful until the Reaper invasion, like spreading the word with his new proofs...

Feeling happy and the game having a point are not the samething.

[dreamgazer]

TheMyron wrote...

ME2 was just fine

I enjoy it more than the critics you're chatting with here, but it's far from "fine".

Modifié par dreamgazer, 21 janvier 2014 - 04:24 .

[Br3admax]

That statement also implies that no one was preparing for anything, which ME3 definitely does not show. It's been six months since the ending of ME2. How much do you really believe that they could have done in that time? If you want to blame anyone, blame ME for telling ME2 that the galaxy would do nothing. This is a problem that has been there since the beginning.

[Mr.House]

Not really, ME ended with the council saying you saved everyone from Sovereign and the Reapers, yet ME2 comes and goes Ah yes "Reapers". So that data pad at the end? Pointless BECAUSE THERE WAS NO POINT FOR IT AS ME CONFIRMED HAD THE COUNCIL CONFIRM THE THREAT.

[Mr.House]

The Mad Hanar wrote...

Mass Effect was always about more than the Reapers. All three games proved this. If this story was just about the Reapers, then we'd probably only have 1/3 of the game content.

That's no excuse for ME2 pulling a complete 180 then have the gal to end the game in the same dam way Mass Effect ended.

[Sebby]

ME2 is even pointless in the context of itself as well. Shepard has no compelling to recruit any of those people besides Mordin and spends most of his time solving daddy issues instead of doing anything relating to the collectors.

[Br3admax]

Mr.House wrote...

Not really, ME ended with the council saying you saved everyone from Sovereign and the Reapers, yet ME2 comes and goes Ah yes "Reapers". So that data pad at the end? Pointless BECAUSE THERE WAS NO POINT FOR IT AS ME CONFIRMED HAD THE COUNCIL CONFIRM THE THREAT.

Citadel shows that they did indeed confirm it. They were still preparing after ME2.

[Sebby]

The Mad Hanar wrote...

Seboist wrote...

ME2 is even pointless in the context of itself as well. Shepard has no compelling to recruit any of those people besides Mordin and spends most of his time solving daddy issues instead of doing anything relating to the collectors.

The Collectors WERE the point of that game. TIM is on crack.

I wonder what made him think recruiting an assassin and a thief who never end up using their specific talents was a good idea.

[Mr.House]

Br3ad wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

Not really, ME ended with the council saying you saved everyone from Sovereign and the Reapers, yet ME2 comes and goes Ah yes "Reapers". So that data pad at the end? Pointless BECAUSE THERE WAS NO POINT FOR IT AS ME CONFIRMED HAD THE COUNCIL CONFIRM THE THREAT.

Citadel shows that they did indeed confirm it. They were still preparing after ME2.

That's more of a retcon of a retcon.

[dreamgazer]

Seboist wrote...

I wonder what made him think recruiting an assassin and a thief who never end up using their specific talents was a good idea.

Well, you could say that scrambling through the vents is the equivalent of "breaking in" somewhere. 

Thane? Errr ... uhhh ... he's, like, a good escort and stuff.  

[Mr.House]

Well Kasumi can do the door part, so yay?