104 réponses à ce sujet

[FlyingSquirrel]

Warning: pointless idle speculation ahead.

I'm thinking that the Council might well expand again after the Reaper War is over, given how much of a team effort it turned out to be with previously marginalized and/or suspect species like the quarians, geth, and krogan making major contributions. So who, of the characters we know, might be the new councilors?

Quarians
Tali might be the obvious choice here - of the five admirals, she has the most extensive and relevant experience in working with other species. She might have to be talked into it, though, since she still tends to downplay her qualifications and may feel like she's too young. Or she might feel strongly about helping with the settlements on Rannoch instead. If not her, then probably Koris or Raan - Xen is just too kooky, and from what Hackett says after the dreadnought mission, Gerrel doesn't have the best reputation.

Krogan
The post-Tuchanka content, including Citadel DLC, seems to have Bakara on Tuchanka and Wrex representing the krogan to the Council, but I'm thinking the opposite combination might make more sense in the long run, i.e. Bakara on the Council and advocating for the krogan while Wrex oversees reconstruction and colonization.

Humans
Someone trustworthy and squeaky-clean after the Udina debacle. Hackett seems to get along with other species but I don't know if he's especially interested in politics. Maybe that Osoba guy was the second-ranking diplomat after Udina? It seemed kind of odd for humans to have a councilor *and* an ambassador.

Volus
Hopefully *not* Din Korlack. While his situation gets settled quietly in ME3, I'm thinking Shepard or Victus would have told someone somewhere along the line that he isn't very trustworthy.

Geth
Maybe that Prime unit that invites the quarians back to Rannoch after Legion dies? It seems to be speaking on behalf of the geth in general.

Past that, I can't really think of any characters we know who are likely to be political bigshots. Maybe the elcor ambassador from ME1 is his species' top diplomat. Thoughts?

[Farangbaa]

You're assuming a lot here.

Everyone you mention can die. With the exception of that Osoba guy... whoever that may be.

[AlanC9]

FlyingSquirrel wrote...

Quarians
Tali might be the obvious choice here - of the five admirals, she has the most extensive and relevant experience in working with other species. She might have to be talked into it, though, since she still tends to downplay her qualifications and may feel like she's too young. Or she might feel strongly about helping with the settlements on Rannoch instead. If not her, then probably Koris or Raan - Xen is just too kooky, and from what Hackett says after the dreadnought mission, Gerrel doesn't have the best reputation.

I'd say Koris if there's peace at Rannoch, since it would pretty much vindicate his position, and Raan otherwise.

[NeroonWilliams]

I'm all for the Volus FINALLY getting a seat on the Council (at least 1000 years late IMHO), and the Krogan will be in a position that demands that they be represented as well, but there are only roughly 15 million Quarians. Even if they have the biggest singular fleet in the galaxy, that is only about 1% of the antebellum galactic Human population. With Rannoch retaken, the vast majority of the Quarian population will be busy rebuilding their civilization there. They will be in NO position to be a major part of galactic politics.

Modifié par NeroonWilliams, 16 janvier 2014 - 08:13 .

[Malanek]

It would be extremely interesting to see what happens politically and is the main reason I am desperate for a sequel set in the not too distant future. I can see the council expanding but I cant see every species having an equal say. It would be something more like

Asari 100 votes
Turians 100 votes
Human 70 votes
Salarian 50-100 votes
Krogan 15 votes
Volus 30 votes
Elcor 20 votes
Hanar 30 votes
Quarian 5 votes

[The Sarendoctrinator]

I think Raan would be the best choice for the quarians. Tali probably wouldn't want the job anyway. I'd imagine she would want to stay on Rannoch and help rebuild, at least for a while.

[Darks1d3]

FlyingSquirrel wrote...

Humans
Someone trustworthy and squeaky-clean after the Udina debacle. Hackett seems to get along with other species but I don't know if he's especially interested in politics. Maybe that Osoba guy was the second-ranking diplomat after Udina? It seemed kind of odd for humans to have a councilor *and* an ambassador.

Going to have to disagree with that first part. Udina can be a ****wit, but I chose him for the councilor position in 2 of my 3 playthroughs. You don't want someone "squeaky-clean" in such an important political position. You want somsone who gets **** done without having too many moral qualms with what needs to be done. Politics aren't usually pretty. 

[themikefest]

I can see the Asari loose their seat for their crap with the Prothean artifact being revealed at the last minute. I would let the Krogan take their seat.

I would give humanity two seats since it was a human that united the galaxy .

[Dean_the_Young]

Tali as Counselor? Shouldn't the Quarians want an effective ir qualified leader, rather than more of the same?

Of course, the rel question isn't who would be a representative: it would be how the Council will organize itself after which ending, if at all.

If we take the Destroy, and put a few decades/centuries of relay repair, then for a good long time the Council will be unable to enforce its edicts. It might maintain minimal QEM communications, but without relays for trade and military movement what can it do? It can't sanction anyone until slow-FTL trade routes open, and even when they do a military response would be a task of months, if not years.

To me, the real political evolution of the post-war council isn't going to be 'who else gets a seat': it's 'how does the breakdown of the xeno-state play out?', once those far-flung territories are effectively independent and combine/conquer/are conquered by similar other-species colonies.

[shodiswe]

NeroonWilliams wrote...

I'm all for the Volus FINALLY getting a seat on the Council (at least 1000 years late IMHO), and the Krogan will be in a position that demands that they be represented as well, but there are only roughly 15 million Quarians. Even if they have the biggest singular fleet in the galaxy, that is only about 1% of the antebellum galactic Human population. With Rannoch retaken, the vast majority of the Quarian population will be busy rebuilding their civilization there. They will be in NO position to be a major part of galactic politics.

15 million Quarians isn't even 0.1% of the humans population, and even those much larger population numbers were considered small to maintain a council seat in ME1. Maybe if they add billions of Geth and the material wealth and finances of the Geth.
That would suggest a shared council seat, or the Geth would hold the Rannoch seat. Unless ofcourse the organics of the galaxy doesn't consider the Geth ready for the responsibility and prefer an organic representative and decides that Synthetics will have to stand down for Organic superiority and supremacy. I would prefer a shared Geth Quarian representation if they would be represented on the council. Otherwise they coudl both have Ambasadors on the Citadel as associate species. To serve as advisors and negotiate tradetreeties.

Also we're told the Quarian fleet is falling appart and won't last much longer. Unless the Geth fixes it for them. It's also likely the Quarians lost most of those ships above Earth Orbit. The Quarians lacks the resources, money and manhours to rebuild and repair that fleet. Unless ofcourse the Geth pays for the repairs and rebuilds their fleet.
At the same time the Quarians won't need as many civilian craft and as large a fleet once they settle on Ranoch. Assuming they live in the next game.

As for the Krogan I doubt that Wrex or Bakara will have time to sit on the council if the Krogans get a council spot. I doubt they will get one though. But they might at least have earned some respect and acceptance in the galaxy.

Maybe that Krogan nobody Guard that liked to watch the news on the the extranet, he would have at least some semblance of understanding of what's happening outside of Tuchanka and he isn't a pirate and therefor not a Criminal. Or Grunt, though I don't think it's in his nature to stand around and talk, that Krogan guard seemed a lot more verbal.

Maybe Charr if he hadn't been dead.

Modifié par shodiswe, 16 janvier 2014 - 10:06 .

[shodiswe]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Tali as Counselor? Shouldn't the Quarians want an effective ir qualified leader, rather than more of the same?

Of course, the rel question isn't who would be a representative: it would be how the Council will organize itself after which ending, if at all.

If we take the Destroy, and put a few decades/centuries of relay repair, then for a good long time the Council will be unable to enforce its edicts. It might maintain minimal QEM communications, but without relays for trade and military movement what can it do? It can't sanction anyone until slow-FTL trade routes open, and even when they do a military response would be a task of months, if not years.

To me, the real political evolution of the post-war council isn't going to be 'who else gets a seat': it's 'how does the breakdown of the xeno-state play out?', once those far-flung territories are effectively independent and combine/conquer/are conquered by similar other-species colonies.

Actualy, that's a point, maybe it shouldn't be an admiral or a military leader. One of the problems with the Quarians was that the military was running the show, the civilian repreentation only had a say in food distribution and minor civilian issues that the Admiralty had no time for and generaly didn't care for.

[Dean_the_Young]

Naked nepotism and favoritism probably wasn't helping much either. A society which elevates puppet leaders is begging for trouble.

Assuming the Council isn't worth much after Destroy, the Quarians would probably get more mileage in bilateral relations and using their migrant fleet and nomad experience to restart slow-FTL trade routes. Besides using the Migrant Fleet surplus to trade, they could travel the galaxy and keep a watch for the rise of any new synthetics, and either caution against it (destroyed the Geth) or offer advice for peaceful coexistence.

That would not only make sense, but be a fitting side role for them as a cameo race in a sequel series.

[The Night Mammoth]

themikefest wrote...

I can see the Asari loose their seat for their crap with the Prothean artifact being revealed at the last minute. I would let the Krogan take their seat.

I would give humanity two seats since it was a human that united the galaxy .

That would be like kicking the US and the UK out of the G8 because of something a very small number of their elected officials did, and replacing them with New Zealand and Sudan.

Anyhoo regardless of what ending I decided was my canon one, I'd always imagined a more inclusive Council. The quarians, represented by Raan, the krogan, represented by that Shaman we talked to in ME2, the hanar and drell, the volus and the elcor would all gain a seat. The geth might gain one further down the line if they wanted, but not right away.  Most other people would remain the same. I have no idea who'd be humanity's new councilor. The only candidate we know of is Admiral Hackett, but he's probably more suited to being, well, an Admiral. Depending on whether Tevos knew about the Beacon or not, she'd stay or be forced to resign. No real idea who'd replace her, but there's always the perosn who takes her place if she gets killed in the first game. Sparatus would stay, he was actually helpful during the war.

As for the salarians, I can imagine a rift forming between pro-genophage and anti-genophage supporters, with the pro side remaining members of the Council, possibly under Valern, whilst the other factions become more like the batarians. I'd like to see a lot more factions emerging from the ruins to give the galaxy a little more diversity. Former colonies, coorporations like Noveria, independant governments in the Terminus Systems, etc. 

Modifié par The Night Mammoth, 16 janvier 2014 - 11:03 .

[themikefest]

The Night Mammoth wrote...

themikefest wrote...

I can see the Asari loose their seat for their crap with the Prothean artifact being revealed at the last minute. I would let the Krogan take their seat.

I would give humanity two seats since it was a human that united the galaxy .

That would be like kicking the US and the UK out of the G8 because of something a very small number of their elected officials did, and replacing them with New Zealand and Sudan.

. 

So now your comparing the Asari with United States and the United Kingdom.

The asari sat on their fifth point of contact while everyone else was suffering, but when their homeworld is being threaten they cry like little babies and finally reveal they have an artifact. How many died or could've been saved if they weren't so subborn. After the war, I would give all the information to Allers about how the Asari failed to reveal an artifact on their homeworld that could've or would've saved lives if they revealed it earlier.

All the other species would want blood. So them losing a seat would be the least of their problems

[Barquiel]

FlyingSquirrel wrote...

Past that, I can't really think of any characters we know who are likely to be political bigshots. Maybe the elcor ambassador from ME1 is his species' top diplomat. Thoughts?

I doubt there will be anything more than minimal changes, but the Elcor probably deserve it the most (They were said to have a larger economy than the Alliance, they're independent and the codex explains that the Elcor have a "small, but capable military"). Maybe the Hanar too, but we don't know much about them.

The Volus are a client race of the Turians, including them would just double turian voting power. The Krogan have to form a stable goverment first and the Quarians lack the significance for a seat on the council. As we see in the epilogue, Turians, Asari and Humans are still allied, while the salarians are remarkably absent (but we never see a salarian ship in any of the games, so I guess it can also be an oversight).

It is mentioned that Dominik Osoba becomes the temprorary human Councilor, as far as I remember.

Modifié par Barquiel, 16 janvier 2014 - 11:48 .

[AlexMBrennan]

Quarians

Not gonna happen since the quarians just restarted a war with the geth in direct contravention of Council resolutions.

Krogan

I'm not sure the krogan are influential enough - sure, they breed like rabbits and have tough ground troops but no navy, industry or engineering capabilities worth mentioning.

Geth
Maybe that Prime unit that invites the quarians back to Rannoch after Legion dies? It seems to be speaking on behalf of the geth in general.

Yeah, that's not how the geth work.

I would give all the information to Allers about how the Asari failed to reveal an artifact on their homeworld that could've or would've saved lives if they revealed it earlier.

All the other species would want blood. So them losing a seat would be the least of their problems

I sure am glad we found a way to quickly resolve that "peace" problem.

[Chashan]

themikefest wrote...
[...]
I would give all the information to Allers about how the Asari failed to reveal an artifact on their homeworld that could've or would've saved lives if they revealed it earlier.

Give the info to Miss al-Jilani, she knows the business of defaming people best.

Modifié par Chashan, 16 janvier 2014 - 11:49 .

[The Night Mammoth]

themikefest wrote...

So now your comparing the Asari with United States and the United Kingdom.

Yes, in terms of their importance to a small but quite powerful and influencial dimplomatic group. Humans are New Zealand. Developed, but very small and powerless in comparison. The Krogan are Sudan. 

The asari sat on their fifth point of contact while everyone else was suffering, but when their homeworld is being threaten they cry like little babies and finally reveal they have an artifact.

Their leaders were quite selfish. There should be repercussions, redundancies, trials, justice for the people who were actually responsible for keeping the asari out of the war for so long.

How many died or could've been saved if they weren't so subborn. After the war, I would give all the information to Allers about how the Asari failed to reveal an artifact on their homeworld that could've or would've saved lives if they revealed it earlier.

All the other species would want blood. So them losing a seat would be the least of their problems

And that's fine, but I'm failing to see why the whole species deserves to be punished for the actions of a very, very small group.

By the same reasoning, shouldn't humanity be kicked off the Council to answer for  the actions of Cerberus, which very nearly doomed everyone multiple times? Why should we (they) deserve an extra seat because of what one person did? There's a very disturbing double standard going on here. 

Modifié par The Night Mammoth, 17 janvier 2014 - 12:19 .

[themikefest]

The Night Mammoth wrote...

And that's fine, but I'm failing to see why the whole species deserves to be punished for the actions of a very, very small group.

By the same reasoning, shouldn't humanity be kicked off the Council to answer for  the actions of Cerberus, which also very nearly doomed everyone? Why should we (they) deserve an extra seat because of what one person did? There's a very disturbing double standard going on here. 

So they don't repeat what their idiot Matriarchs did. They would still have to answer to the galaxy.

You're right about Cerberus. I personally like to see humanity separate itself from the council completely and build their own future and build their military as large as they want and not follow some stupid treaty that was made however long ago.

Humanity being equivalent to New Zealand while the Asari is equivalent to the US and UK. No. Humanity would wipe out the Asari if they went to war with each other.

Why are so protective of the Asari?.

[DeinonSlayer]

I could go on and on about the flaws of the pre-war Council system, but this isn't the thread for it.

I'm going on the basis of high-EMS destroy here, since it's my canon ending and doesn't leave the galaxy under High Lord Shepard's boot or stir everyone's brains about.

In the event that the Genophage was cured, I think it would be appropriate if a "one-way door" policy were implemented for the Krogan. They're granted a set number of colonies in addition to their homeworld. Those who haven't been cured can go anywhere in the galaxy, but if they go to Krogan space (and thus are exposed to the cure) they stay in there. The Krogan are poised for major societal shifts in the wake of such a population boom, and need to adjust to the new reality - they can't be allowed to start spreading unchecked as they did last time or it'll set up the galaxy for another devastating war. We'll see if Wrex and Eve's reforms take. Give it a few centuries, and if they've stabilized everyone can go from there.

The truth of the Thessia beacon needs to be exposed; those directly responsible held accountable for withholding it. The battle for Earth, and all casualties incurred therein, could have been avoided if they hadn't sat on it for their sole benefit for so long. Note I don't believe sanctions should be levied against the species at large - I expect Asari power to be greatly diminished in the wake of the war, with the (still powerful) humans and Turians, and especially the (largely unassailed) Salarians remaining as major powers. That isn't to say they will all remain allies - the Asari and Salarians in particular may well see diminished reputations for sitting by the sidelines for so long. The post-war galaxy will not be a stable place.

As much as I like the Quarians, I don't see them being a major player in post-war galactic politics. They've got centuries of reconstruction, immunorehabilitation and repopulation ahead of them before they could be considered as such - resettlement will require the cannibalization of much of their fleet which was on its last legs anyway. Honestly, if the Batarian Hegemony were still at full strength, I'd think they'd be at risk of slaver raids on their own homeworld. I could see them being withdrawn from the galaxy at large for quite some time, maintaining diplomatic relations and trade, but generally remaining congregated together. After what the Council did to them over the last three centuries, I wouldn't blame them if they didn't recognize Council authority at all and chose to remain independent.

Many races may follow suit, maintaining alliances with individual species with little deference given to any central galactic government. Provided Khar'shan is even habitable anymore, the Batarians will be in the same boat as the Quarians, rebuilding from scratch with a greatly diminished population, on a far more damaged world. Hopefukly the Hegemony itself will be a thing of the past, but if slavery and their caste system had religious origins, things may never improve for them.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

For my headcanon, yes, there is a more diverse Council. but behind it, there is a shadow organization that is... not controlling them per se, but more 'encouraging' the galaxy to move along a certain path. That group is the renewed Cerberus with Shepard and Miranda at the helm. It works much like the SB's organization. They're beyond the law, and beyond reproach.

[The Night Mammoth]

themikefest wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

And that's fine, but I'm failing to see why the whole species deserves to be punished for the actions of a very, very small group.

By the same reasoning, shouldn't humanity be kicked off the Council to answer for  the actions of Cerberus, which also very nearly doomed everyone? Why should we (they) deserve an extra seat because of what one person did? There's a very disturbing double standard going on here. 

So they don't repeat what their idiot Matriarchs did. They would still have to answer to the galaxy.

Okay, but why isn't the better solution to simply remove the Matriarchs responsible and let, nay, tell the asari to pick new leaders? It's not like they have a culture of keeping secrets from the rest of the galaxy that would cause them to repeat their mistakes, the total number of asari who knew about the beacon was very small, it's not even certain that the Councilor herself knew about it.

You're right about Cerberus. I personally like to see humanity separate itself from the council completely and build their own future and build their military as large as they want and not follow some stupid treaty that was made however long ago.

Like the batarians.

Humanity being equivalent to New Zealand while the Asari is equivalent to the US and UK. No. Humanity would wipe out the Asari if they went to war with each other.

I meant that in terms of how important they are dimplomatically and economically. Humans have been on the galaxtic stage for thirty years, plus a couple more years before first contact. Their total population amongst the colonies is something like ten million. The asari have more than two thousand years to build themselves into an economic power, they've literally been there since the beginning, they built the Council and everything it's based on. Their industrial, commercial and political strength is much more than the Alliance, just by virtue of them having been around longer. This is not about who could beat who in a fight, though with the asari having twice as many dreadnoughts as Alliance, I wouldn't fancy their chances. 

Why are so protective of the Asari?.

I'm an advocate of fairness. Note that I've already said those responsible should be held accountable. The asari should keep their seat and replace their leaders, and the same time many species who've been sidelined like the volus deserve recoginition with a spot on the Council, as do the quarians and the krogan.

Modifié par The Night Mammoth, 17 janvier 2014 - 01:11 .

[themikefest]

@The Night Mammoth

Do we know the number of Asari that knew about the beacon? Even if you remove the Matriarchs, the galaxy will show them no respect for what was done.

What do you mean like the Batarians?

The Asari may of been around for a long time, but how different would their species be if they didn't have that beacon or they let other species know about it.

You may want the Asari to keep their seat , but it would be up to the other council members and pressure from the general public who may want them to lose their seat.

[Steelcan]

Put the asari on a probationary role, give the krogan a seat and some new territory, invite the batarians and quarians to open embassies

[The Night Mammoth]

themikefest wrote...

@The Night Mammoth

Do we know the number of Asari that knew about the beacon? Even if you remove the Matriarchs, the galaxy will show them no respect for what was done.

Some might not, but hopefully the majority of people in the galaxy will recognise that most asari, as in almost all of them, had no idea there was a beacon on Thessia, and weren't responsible for it being kept secret. The group who'd likely support justice for the Matriarchs who broke the law is the asari themselves. It's not like they supported it all along, this probably more of a shocking and horrifying revelation for them. They wont face much backlash because they'll be leading the charge to hold the Matriarchs accountable.

What do you mean like the Batarians?

Well, the batarians had the same idea. Splitting from the Council, going on their own. They weren't doing so well before the Reapers arrived.

The Asari may of been around for a long time, but how different would their species be if they didn't have that beacon or they let other species know about it.

That's not really important anymore, is it? The past can't be changed, and the asari species doesn't deserve to be punished for something they had absolutely no idea was happening.

You may want the Asari to keep their seat , but it would be up to the other council members and pressure from the general public who may want them to lose their seat.

And if the other Council members and the general public have any sense at all they won't kick the asari off the Council, because it simply wouldn't be the right thing to do. There are several much fairer things they can call for without going to the extreme.

Modifié par The Night Mammoth, 17 janvier 2014 - 05:23 .