104 réponses à ce sujet

[rapscallioness]

mango smoothie wrote...

The council existing post Reaper War seems highly unlikely. At the very end of Mass Effect 3 the civilian governments of most species is essentially gone, and the military of each species take control.

Basically the council is a casualty of the Reaper War and most species that retain any order post war will retain it through military control, and it will remain that way till the civilian population feel they can support their own order.

Yeah, although my money is on a paramilitary type group. Mercs and what not cuz even the militaries of the galaxy have been darn near decimated.

I mean, the galaxy survived, but just barely. Power vacuums. Infrastructure gone. No grocery stores. Lol! The galaxy got hit real hard. Realistically, things would be a damn mess even w/the Reapers gone.

Oh, my poor MEU....

[wright1978]

mango smoothie wrote...

The council existing post Reaper War seems highly unlikely. At the very end of Mass Effect 3 the civilian governments of most species is essentially gone, and the military of each species take control.

Basically the council is a casualty of the Reaper War and most species that retain any order post war will retain it through military control, and it will remain that way till the civilian population feel they can support their own order.

That seems more an argument as to council representatives being military appointees rather than choices from civilian bodies. Personally IMO post war there will definitely need to be the joined up collaboration that the council can facilitate.

[FlyingSquirrel]

wright1978 wrote...

mango smoothie wrote...

The council existing post Reaper War seems highly unlikely. At the very end of Mass Effect 3 the civilian governments of most species is essentially gone, and the military of each species take control.

Basically the council is a casualty of the Reaper War and most species that retain any order post war will retain it through military control, and it will remain that way till the civilian population feel they can support their own order.

That seems more an argument as to council representatives being military appointees rather than choices from civilian bodies. Personally IMO post war there will definitely need to be the joined up collaboration that the council can facilitate.

I tend to think that there would be a period of relatively benign martial law until things settle down, with civilians still involved in the major decisions even if the militaries are running things on a daily basis. I don't think the asari, for example, with their history of e-democracy, would want military representatives making decisions on their own about long-term issues that will extend beyond the reconstruction period. So while you might have new military representatives on the Council (or whatever takes its place) at first, it would probably transition back to more of a civilian body eventually.

(Of course, if this is a Control scenario, one of the big items will be negotiating with AI-Shepard and the Reapers to establish when exactly the Reapers are supposed to intervene in a situation.)

[shodiswe]

The Alliance might have lost it's parliament, but all that's needed is a reelection. There are billions of humans, surely some would allow themselves to be elected and let people know what they will work towards.

Udina could surely be replaced by Osoba, at least til the New Alliance Parliament elects a more longterm representative, which could be Osoba, or someone else.

The new Alliance parliament might move to earth/London or the Citadel given that the citadel is now in Earth orbit. Unless they rebuild Arcturus station to house the fleet and Alliance parliament.

Given that the Citadel and possibly the council is moved to the Sol System it makes sense for humanity to stay conected to galactic politics especialy since the center of galactic politics has now been relocated to the center of Human Alliance space.

I expect land and property on Earth to get a lot more expensive when the galaxy recovers. This could also speed human expansion as people look for cheaper living and more mundane workoportunities elsewhere.

Right now Hacket is the leader of the Alliance military forces, unless Hacket sets himself up as a Dictator he will likely try to get things back to normal. Do you trust Hacket? Hacket likely has the trust of both the human and alien military commanders who fought the Reapers.

Modifié par shodiswe, 17 janvier 2014 - 09:04 .

[NeonFlux117]

Space Hamster, Conrad Verner, ReaperShep God, and Marauder Shields should be the member's of the new council.

It would be..... Glorious.

The alternate member should be that Pijak you punch in ME2... You know that one, on tuchanka where the Krogan "scientist" is. The Pijak should be an honorary alternate member of the council.

[TheMyron]

Necanor wrote...

I think all races should be entitled to having a seat on the council(except for the Drell perhaps). While I have a grudge against the Asari after the beacon fiasco, I don't think they should loose their seat entirely.

If that's not an option I'd give the Quarians, Batarians and Krogan at least the chance to open an embassy.

The Salarians contributed almost nothing at all, they should be revoked...

[TheMyron]

pelojian wrote...

Saberchic wrote...
However, I'm not so sure the current structure of the Council would still remain the same. I can see many races pushing for a more diversified governing body, such as it becoming more of a "senate" set up as opposed to what they have now.

I have to agree with. the way i think it could go is:

1)a larger council with major contrubutors to the war effort getting a seat.

2)or an even larger council with all countrbutors having a seat.

3)a division some races leaving the council and forming their own inter-government alliances and before someone goes on about the way the batarians went when they left before the war. the batarians got themselves 'stepped on' by the pre-war council with sanctions, in the post-war setting i can't see them being able to justify doing the same to a dozen governments that leave after fighting together in the war.


I'd predict that those races that played a major role in the war would have a temporary advantage in political power, not from laws or edicts but from their reputation gained in the war.

while i'd see those races who watched from the sidelines and did nothing be at a weakened position negotiating with the council as an outsider.

I would think with the krogan cured they'd definitly have a seat (the turians would press for it)
The same would go with the quarians i think given they supplied the turians and krogan.
The geth *could* get a seat if they wanted it.

The volus would i imagine would get a seat after pledging the bombing fleet to the war and countless citizens donating money to citadel defence and war funds as well as the support from their fabrication units pumping out weapons and supplies.

I could see a shakeup in the top of the governments of the Asari and Salarians.

The asari for keeping a vital asset secert for so long while countless people suffed and the salarian politicians for dragging their feet and only commiting minimal resources while the military did it's best to help under the radar. (one fleet and major kirrahe in my playthrough)

The Asari would keep their seat, the salarians could understanably loose their seat for a time or be forced to elect someone into the position that isn't a politican.

I could see the rachni given at least an embasy but i dunno how that would turn out.

The batarians i think would get an embassy at-least, they fought with traditional enemies against a greater foe.
I can see humans supporting them in getting a seat if the batarians forgot old hatreds and vice-versa.

The alliance would definitly keep their seat and have a good amount of politcal power after being the driving force behind uniting forces against the reapers despite the doubters.

How will Omega be represented in your new United Galaxy? Or should the Terminus systems be allowed to remain free from the Galactic government? Or should they be made to integrate with the Citadel's lawful society?

Modifié par TheMyron, 17 janvier 2014 - 11:02 .

[TheMyron]

OniTYME wrote...

I'm quite sure this has been stated in ME1 or the codex, but council races must have a decent military/strength. Volus should NOT be on the council. Without the turians, they're basically that small nerd that is easy pickings for any bully.

Quarians and Krogan should be included or considered. Both have some might behind them, and with some time, they'll be great forces to be reckoned with.

What about the Batarians, they might want a second chance with the Council.

[TheMyron]

mango smoothie wrote...

The council existing post Reaper War seems highly unlikely. At the very end of Mass Effect 3 the civilian governments of most species is essentially gone, and the military of each species take control.

Basically the council is a casualty of the Reaper War and most species that retain any order post war will retain it through military control, and it will remain that way till the civilian population feel they can support their own order.

I hope those Military Powers are led by "General Washington's" and/or "General Macarthur's", otherwise I foresee someone trying to use his power to establish a permanent dictatorship.

[wright1978]

shodiswe wrote...

The Alliance might have lost it's parliament, but all that's needed is a reelection. There are billions of humans, surely some would allow themselves to be elected and let people know what they will work towards.

.....

Right now Hacket is the leader of the Alliance military forces, unless Hacket sets himself up as a Dictator he will likely try to get things back to normal. Do you trust Hacket? Hacket likely has the trust of both the human and alien military commanders who fought the Reapers.

i expect Hackett to be military governor for a number of years before a transition back to civilian rule. In the aftermath of such a massive disaster the focus isn't likely to be on holding elections but maintaining order.

[Dean_the_Young]

wright1978 wrote...

mango smoothie wrote...

The council existing post Reaper War seems highly unlikely. At the very end of Mass Effect 3 the civilian governments of most species is essentially gone, and the military of each species take control.

Basically the council is a casualty of the Reaper War and most species that retain any order post war will retain it through military control, and it will remain that way till the civilian population feel they can support their own order.

That seems more an argument as to council representatives being military appointees rather than choices from civilian bodies. Personally IMO post war there will definitely need to be the joined up collaboration that the council can facilitate.

With the Relays destroyed in Destroy, what collaboration is possible in the first place? 

I do agree that military rule is going to be a de-facto standard for some time. And if there's any nominal Council, it could well be a continuation of the Reaper War military alliance that teeters on for a few years/decades until the lack of available military collaboration sets in. You might see a few decades of QEM-coms coordinating the return of the Earth fleets and sharing galaxy maps, perhaps, but past that?

I suspect everything will reorganize at the local sector level. In which case, merc groups and military fleets that happen to be in the region will be the king makers for the initial post-war rebalancing.

[Dean_the_Young]

Earth is going to be interesting. As far as the galaxy goes, considering how Earth had something like 99.9% percent of the Human population before the war started, the rest of the colonies are going to be bit actors.

The question will be how the institutions of Earth endured. We know the infrastructure was largely good: the Reapers occupied and ran the civilian governments, and were going to be doing so for decades. We know that national units on Earth remained, though everyone was divided.

The real question will be whether those nations even want to reunify under the aegis of the Alliance. What effect with the Alliance's inept defense at the start, and the possibility of lingering indoctrinated moles, have? The Alliance was always based on the idea that it was hands-off when it came to Earth.

If Hackett doesn't occupy Earth and force it all together, the stresses and impacts of the Reaper War could plausibly see the Alliance break into power blocks, going their own way or struggling to claim the mantle of leadership of Humanity.

[jamesp81]

 Krogan aren't getting a council seat for at least a generation. 

Admiral Hackett is too good at what he does to be wasted playing politician on the citadel. There will be a lot of chaos in the war's aftermath. Humanity will need his leadership badly both in a military capacity and as a symbol of stability.  the best choice for humanity's councilor is probably someone we didn't interact with in the game, but if we are restricting it to known characters, I'm inclined to pick Kahlee Sanders. The pants wetting politicians tend to get nervous around hardcore military types and though Sanders is a commissioned officer, her reputation is more centered in scientific research than military accolades. 

The quarians...maybe. I would not have zaal'korris or han'gerrel on the council. I like gerrel in a personal sense (even though I thought he was wrong about going to war with the geth), but politics are not his strong suit. He would be wasted there just like Hackett would be. Korris is as big of a self righteous, priggish ass as I've ever seen. If there'd been a renegade interrupt to shoot him in me2 I would've broken my mouse hitting it. His self righteous smugness is not a good character trait for politics. His only redeeming quality is that he opposed war with the geth. I would have to say that raan is their best choice. Strong without being too aggressive, morally upright without being abrasive or holier than thou, diplomatic but not a pushover.

as for the geth, I'd guess they write a program or set of programs to serve as a councilor. 


The elcor probably deserve a council seat. I don't see the volus getting a seat as long as they are vassals of the turians. Frankly, the humans and the turians ought to get two votes for the next 25 years since they bore the worst of the fighting.  

[jamesp81]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Earth is going to be interesting. As far as the galaxy goes, considering how Earth had something like 99.9% percent of the Human population before the war started, the rest of the colonies are going to be bit actors.

The question will be how the institutions of Earth endured. We know the infrastructure was largely good: the Reapers occupied and ran the civilian governments, and were going to be doing so for decades. We know that national units on Earth remained, though everyone was divided.

The real question will be whether those nations even want to reunify under the aegis of the Alliance. What effect with the Alliance's inept defense at the start, and the possibility of lingering indoctrinated moles, have? The Alliance was always based on the idea that it was hands-off when it came to Earth.

If Hackett doesn't occupy Earth and force it all together, the stresses and impacts of the Reaper War could plausibly see the Alliance break into power blocks, going their own way or struggling to claim the mantle of leadership of Humanity.

i don't know...I don't really see this happening. It's obvious to everyone that the alliance navy was seriously outclassed by its opponents. I think the nations of earth are going too busy fixing all the crap that the reapers broke rather than starting crap with Hackett. I doubt that Hackett will have any need to "occupy" earth at all. 

[Dean_the_Young]

It's how people rebuild, not if, that will determine the future of the Alliance. If the Earth nations rebuild themselves first, then give surpluses to the Alliance to rebuild with, that is going to be completely different than if the Alliance collects and determines the redistrobution of resources.

The Alliance's previous arrangement with Earth was that as long as Earth nations gave it the resources to do with as it saw fit, it would keep Earth safe. It kinda failed, humiliatingly so, in that Earth not only fell... it fell in hours, where Palaven kept on for months.

Regardless of who is to blame, the fact is that if Hackett wants to get Alliance resources, he's going to have to take them from the Earth nations. Earth nations, who will always have things to rebuild and domestic priorities, may be less interested in buying Hacket a new space fleet to reach and secure the Alliance near colonies.

[jamesp81]

ImaginaryMatter wrote...

XxproknifaxX wrote...

 What about Batarians? They deserve a second chance and have plenty of people to lead them such as Balak.

I can get behind this. Many of the side stuff involving the Batarian's certainly implied that they were changing for the better, at least as far as their government was concerned (no more Hegemony!).

as it turns out the batarians aren't so disagreeable when they no longer have Space North Korea looking over all their shoulders. 

Modifié par jamesp81, 18 janvier 2014 - 01:46 .

[jamesp81]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

It's how people rebuild, not if, that will determine the future of the Alliance. If the Earth nations rebuild themselves first, then give surpluses to the Alliance to rebuild with, that is going to be completely different than if the Alliance collects and determines the redistrobution of resources.

The Alliance's previous arrangement with Earth was that as long as Earth nations gave it the resources to do with as it saw fit, it would keep Earth safe. It kinda failed, humiliatingly so, in that Earth not only fell... it fell in hours, where Palaven kept on for months.

Regardless of who is to blame, the fact is that if Hackett wants to get Alliance resources, he's going to have to take them from the Earth nations. Earth nations, who will always have things to rebuild and domestic priorities, may be less interested in buying Hacket a new space fleet to reach and secure the Alliance near colonies.

I don't think Hackett is fool enough to make such a demand. He knows better. While the alliance navy got the hell beat out of it, significant numbers of ships survived the war...enough to at least maintain a security presence in the sol system. In the near term, that's good enough until things get moving elsewhere with respect to reconstruction. 

[General TSAR]

FlyingSquirrel wrote...
Quarians
Tali might be the obvious choice here -

Too emotional and weak-kneed.

Humans
Someone trustworthy and squeaky-clean after the Udina debacle.

How about a pragmatist who isn't afraid of pushing against the other races for human interests, kinda like Udina before he became LOLINSANE. 

Modifié par General TSAR, 18 janvier 2014 - 02:12 .

[Dean_the_Young]

jamesp81 wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

It's how people rebuild, not if, that will determine the future of the Alliance. If the Earth nations rebuild themselves first, then give surpluses to the Alliance to rebuild with, that is going to be completely different than if the Alliance collects and determines the redistrobution of resources.

The Alliance's previous arrangement with Earth was that as long as Earth nations gave it the resources to do with as it saw fit, it would keep Earth safe. It kinda failed, humiliatingly so, in that Earth not only fell... it fell in hours, where Palaven kept on for months.

Regardless of who is to blame, the fact is that if Hackett wants to get Alliance resources, he's going to have to take them from the Earth nations. Earth nations, who will always have things to rebuild and domestic priorities, may be less interested in buying Hacket a new space fleet to reach and secure the Alliance near colonies.

I don't think Hackett is fool enough to make such a demand. He knows better. While the alliance navy got the hell beat out of it, significant numbers of ships survived the war...enough to at least maintain a security presence in the sol system. In the near term, that's good enough until things get moving elsewhere with respect to reconstruction. 

Hackett not making that demand is precisely the sort of policy that will encourage a breakup of the Alliance. If the Alliance does not enforce authority over the countries and how they distribute resources, the countries will. If the countries distribute the resources according to their own interests, the Alliance effectively has no role.

It's not like common defense has a role in the post-relay galaxy for another several decades at a minimum, unless we have any reason to fear the Sword and Hammer forces from alien powers.

[DeinonSlayer]

General TSAR wrote...

FlyingSquirrel wrote...
Quarians
Tali might be the obvious choice here -

Too emotional and weak-kneed.

Leaked script didn't have her standing around passively while the upload took place - Shepard looked like an ass instead, standing back and watching Legion thrash her about when she tries to stop him (I guess Squadmate #2 was off smoking a blunt or something at the time). Final product wasn't exactly consistent with the character of the woman who tossed a grenade at that thug in the alley when first met.

I vote Reegar for Quarian representative (he ain't dead - shut up). His job is public relations, after all.

Humans
Someone trustworthy and squeaky-clean after the Udina debacle.

How about a pragmatist who isn't afraid of pushing against the other races for human interests, kinda like Udina before he became LOLINSANE.

Seems to me that every single person who serves as an advocate for humanity in the MEU becomes LOLINSANE or otherwise an object for ridicule and/or scorn. TIM, Saracino, Udina, that guy who asks you to buy drugs for him... I can't be the only one who noticed this trend. I guess self-interest is racist?

Modifié par DeinonSlayer, 18 janvier 2014 - 02:50 .

[His Name was HYR!!]

DeinonSlayer wrote...

Final product wasn't exactly consistent with the character of the woman who tossed a grenade at that thug in the alley when first met.

Using a weapon to defend yourself against people who're clearly going to harm you is not really compelling proof of strength or toughness. It's the obvious thing to do.

Tali has always been weak in matters that can't be solved with a shotgun or omnitool.

[shodiswe]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

jamesp81 wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

It's how people rebuild, not if, that will determine the future of the Alliance. If the Earth nations rebuild themselves first, then give surpluses to the Alliance to rebuild with, that is going to be completely different than if the Alliance collects and determines the redistrobution of resources.

The Alliance's previous arrangement with Earth was that as long as Earth nations gave it the resources to do with as it saw fit, it would keep Earth safe. It kinda failed, humiliatingly so, in that Earth not only fell... it fell in hours, where Palaven kept on for months.

Regardless of who is to blame, the fact is that if Hackett wants to get Alliance resources, he's going to have to take them from the Earth nations. Earth nations, who will always have things to rebuild and domestic priorities, may be less interested in buying Hacket a new space fleet to reach and secure the Alliance near colonies.

I don't think Hackett is fool enough to make such a demand. He knows better. While the alliance navy got the hell beat out of it, significant numbers of ships survived the war...enough to at least maintain a security presence in the sol system. In the near term, that's good enough until things get moving elsewhere with respect to reconstruction. 

Hackett not making that demand is precisely the sort of policy that will encourage a breakup of the Alliance. If the Alliance does not enforce authority over the countries and how they distribute resources, the countries will. If the countries distribute the resources according to their own interests, the Alliance effectively has no role.

It's not like common defense has a role in the post-relay galaxy for another several decades at a minimum, unless we have any reason to fear the Sword and Hammer forces from alien powers.

Spending money on the military for anything other than the most urgent emergency repairs would be stupid when the infrastructure that will supply the future upkeep and growth has been damaged. There is no immediate threat to the Alliance that's serious enough unless the Leviathans hits. (I doubt the alliance could do more agaistn them than they did the Reapers) And there is no anti-leviathan crusible as far as I know, unless the Reapers left blueprints for one..
The alliace still has a few ships and soldiers to maintain the peace and help with the rebuilding process.

All other military powers in the galaxy have taken hits aswell. The Relays will take some time to fix.

Modifié par shodiswe, 18 janvier 2014 - 02:53 .

[DeinonSlayer]

HYR 2.0 wrote...

DeinonSlayer wrote...

Final product wasn't exactly consistent with the character of the woman who tossed a grenade at that thug in the alley when first met.

Using a weapon to defend yourself against people who're clearly going to harm you is not really compelling proof of strength or toughness. It's the obvious thing to do.

Tali has always been weak in matters that can't be solved with a shotgun or omnitool.

All I did was convey what was originally written. I found it more consistent with the character as previously established than what made it into the final game, and believe it was cut because it reflected badly on Paragon Shepard.

The scene was badly written. That's the long and short. Seriously - what reason would Raan have not to intervene? 

[CinderSkye]

I don't see any of the council races changing in the immediate aftermath. The Salarians may be chastised for their slowness to react, but they still did participate in the final battles and were mostly unscathed, leaving them with a lot of resources and weight to throw around. The Asari probably took the worst of it, but are too deeply ingrained in galactic society as diplomats and intermediaries. etc. etc. etc.

Too early for the Krogans to be given a council seat. Way too early.

Quarians + Geth as a combined group representing Rannoch could arguably get a seat, and that's the only situation that might change. Geth alone would probably still be too unnerving to merit a seat in the immediate aftermath, and the Quarians alone are too weak. However, both would receive a giant prestige boost in the aftermath, so there is that.

Batarians would probably be welcomed back as a Citadel race, but they took far too heavy losses and estranged themselves too much prior to immediately be given a seat.

[DeinonSlayer]

CinderSkye wrote...

I don't see any of the council races changing in the immediate aftermath. The Salarians may be chastised for their slowness to react, but they still did participate in the final battles and were mostly unscathed, leaving them with a lot of resources and weight to throw around. The Asari probably took the worst of it, but are too deeply ingrained in galactic society as diplomats and intermediaries. etc. etc. etc.

Too early for the Krogans to be given a council seat. Way too early.

Quarians + Geth as a combined group representing Rannoch could arguably get a seat, and that's the only situation that might change. Geth alone would probably still be too unnerving to merit a seat in the immediate aftermath, and the Quarians alone are too weak. However, both would receive a giant prestige boost in the aftermath, so there is that.

Batarians would probably be welcomed back as a Citadel race, but they took far too heavy losses and estranged themselves too much prior to immediately be given a seat.

If you shoot Balak, the Batarian contribution to the war effort consists of terrorist acts to sabotage the Alliance war effort. Gotta wince at the thought of how they'd be regarded post-war in that eventuality; somewhere in the vicinity of compost. Multiple generations at refugee camp-level subsistence, if they're lucky.

Modifié par DeinonSlayer, 18 janvier 2014 - 03:47 .