276 réponses à ce sujet

[Ramirez Wolfen]

Lee337 wrote...

Ramirez Wolfen wrote...

People are arguing over which voice actor is better? Oh, come on. How about this:

THEY BOTH SUCK.

/end of debate

I think by making a statement like that you're just going to incite more debate rather than ending it!

[Almostfaceman]

android654 wrote...

There's been this permeation of a false dichotomy that people take as an almost absolute truth.

Not every opinion is valid. Its not nice to say or hear, but its the truth. If we're discussing who of the two you like more, then your opinion has some standing, but if we're discussing which of the two can emote better, recreate scenes by voice alone, and bring the character to life then opinions are invalid. The question here is which of the two is better at their job as an actor, not which of the two you like more.

If you use a critique for discerning which of the two can emote better through voice alone, then you'll be able to discern the better of the two actors.

Odd isn't it?  I think Meer emote's better, recreate's scene's better by voice alone, and brings the character more to life.  I think Meer is the better actor.  Now why is that?  It's because Hale's voice comes across differently to me than it does to you.

It's for the same reason two movie critics can look at a movie and completely disagree.  Or look at a painting and completely disagree.  It's because we're not discussing math, like 2+2=4.  We're discussing how one person's voice affects another person.  You're trying to prove something that cannot be proved, because there's no ultimate answer.  It's like asking someone what's their favorite color.  There is no right answer.

[jojon2se]

I think I'll write a little something, despite the apparent calming of the seas. Hope I'm not stirring them up again.

Think of it as having the equivalent of a volume knob, on emotional expression.

In theatres, it's important to articulate well and really *shakes fist* re-fiiiine emotions, so that you can reach the audience, some distance away, including the poor sods on the back row. This goes for visual appearence as well, with makeup becoming almost charicaturesque and types of gestures being lexically identified and much exaggerated.

With the advent of motion pictures with audio and extreme closeups, this approach became almost ridicolous, when carried straight over. A more subdued, intimate form of acting was needed. You could still not act perfectly naturally, of course - people speaking plainly in films, is almost worse than people speaking like Don LaFontaine in real life, but movie acting is still, generally, more subtle than theatre acting.
(Early cinema is an exception, of course. Photo limitations required things like sharp contrasts and the lack of audio meant body language had to convey pretty much everything. As a consequence the sublime theatre techniques were taken to a whole new level.)

So, fast forwarding to the current year, in theatre and film both, we see a broad range of emotional amplification, depending on the overall mood the piece, venue and director calls for. Actors can usually adapt to any level on the emotional volume knob.

Shepard, as characterised by both voice actors, is a very wooden character: "I'm a soldier. My job is to do my job, which is my job and my job permeats even my private life, despite my private life not being my job".
Sociologically the female version needs a slight bit more of a bark, behind the words, because of gender issues in society today. Equality may well have come a long way in the gameworld timeframe, but it is not the people of the 2180's that plays the game - it is we.

So, we have Hale and Meer voicing the character, with the former leaning towards a 7 on the emotional expressiveness volume knob and the latter a 2, sometimes even going for a "real person" sort of performance of a career soldier, rather than a "movie character".

Both actors successfully do what they set out to do, conveying the wooden quality of Shepard and both have proven able to do any notch along a turn of the knob, should they so wish.

Sublime and subtle. Which you prefer is a simple matter of personal taste.

[InvaderErl]

Very good post.

[Labrev]

Hale has a nice voice, but she's not very convincing on renegade dialogue.

[android654]

Lee337 wrote...

You say use a critique as though a critiques word is truth, which isn't the case. A critique is still just giving an opinion and there will still be differing opinions between them. It maybe more of an educated opinion but it is still just an opinion.
Everything to do with the arts is entirely opinion based, a majority with a similar opinion still doesn't make that opinion fact, opinions aren't fact. It just makes it the most popular opinion.
Even if I went with what you are saying, Meer and Hale are not so vastly different in skills that you could say that it is a fact that one is better. I understand what you are trying to say, but I disagree with it.

Have you ever studied art or acting as a medium? Not everything in art is subjective, most things aren't. There's a difference between cubism and fresco, yes they're both paintings and you may like one more than the other, but one will be one type of painting and not the other. Same goes for acting there is good voice acting and there is script reading. There is a criteria for acting, that if its not met, then its medicore or even parodying the actual form.

Now, once again if one is judging which they like more, then its a free for all as to which is preferable. But if we're judging acting by a real criteria, Even Stanislavaski would agree that one has the talent to emote more than the other.

Like JoJon has said, Shepard isn't the most dynamic character, but Hale has tried to inject emotion into the character's dialogue, while Meer is simply reading.

[android654]

Lee337 wrote...

You say use a critique as though a critiques word is truth, which isn't the case. A critique is still just giving an opinion and there will still be differing opinions between them. It maybe more of an educated opinion but it is still just an opinion.
Everything to do with the arts is entirely opinion based, a majority with a similar opinion still doesn't make that opinion fact, opinions aren't fact. It just makes it the most popular opinion.
Even if I went with what you are saying, Meer and Hale are not so vastly different in skills that you could say that it is a fact that one is better. I understand what you are trying to say, but I disagree with it.

Have you ever studied art or acting as a medium? Not everything in art is subjective, most things aren't. There's a difference between cubism and fresco, yes they're both paintings and you may like one more than the other, but one will be one type of painting and not the other. Same goes for acting there is good voice acting and there is script reading. There is a criteria for acting, that if its not met, then its mediocre or even parodying the actual form.

Now, once again if one is judging which they like more, then its a free for all as to which is preferable. But if we're judging acting by a real criteria, Even Stanislavaski would agree that one has the talent to emote more than the other.

Like JoJon has said, Shepard isn't the most dynamic character, but Hale has tried to inject emotion into the character's dialogue, while Meer is simply reading.

[Ramirez Wolfen]

Can we stop arguing this? It's just a matter of opinion, and all the *extreme* feminists ALWAYS say that Hale is better. There is no better voice actor here. To be honest, I don't care for both. But in the end, no one should care. IT'S JUST A GAME.

[android654]

Ramirez Wolfen wrote...

Can we stop arguing this? It's just a matter of opinion, and all the *extreme* feminists ALWAYS say that Hale is better. There is no better voice actor here. To be honest, I don't care for both. But in the end, no one should care. IT'S JUST A GAME.

Extreme feminists? lol! I hope you didn't lump me in that bunch.

[Almostfaceman]

android654 wrote...

Lee337 wrote...

You say use a critique as though a critiques word is truth, which isn't the case. A critique is still just giving an opinion and there will still be differing opinions between them. It maybe more of an educated opinion but it is still just an opinion.
Everything to do with the arts is entirely opinion based, a majority with a similar opinion still doesn't make that opinion fact, opinions aren't fact. It just makes it the most popular opinion.
Even if I went with what you are saying, Meer and Hale are not so vastly different in skills that you could say that it is a fact that one is better. I understand what you are trying to say, but I disagree with it.

Have you ever studied art or acting as a medium? Not everything in art is subjective, most things aren't. There's a difference between cubism and fresco, yes they're both paintings and you may like one more than the other, but one will be one type of painting and not the other. Same goes for acting there is good voice acting and there is script reading. There is a criteria for acting, that if its not met, then its mediocre or even parodying the actual form.

Now, once again if one is judging which they like more, then its a free for all as to which is preferable. But if we're judging acting by a real criteria, Even Stanislavaski would agree that one has the talent to emote more than the other.

Like JoJon has said, Shepard isn't the most dynamic character, but Hale has tried to inject emotion into the character's dialogue, while Meer is simply reading.

To me, Meer doesn't sound like he's simply reading and Hale sounds like she's sleepy.  You and Jon-Jon have your opinion on the matter and I have mine.  Because it's subjective.  You can call me tone-deaf and I can call you tone deaf.  One person's acting is another person's script reading.  Cubism vs fresco is irrelevant, I'm not saying that one person's hammer is another person's flower - that's not subjective.

[Ramirez Wolfen]

android654 wrote...

Ramirez Wolfen wrote...

Can we stop arguing this? It's just a matter of opinion, and all the *extreme* feminists ALWAYS say that Hale is better. There is no better voice actor here. To be honest, I don't care for both. But in the end, no one should care. IT'S JUST A GAME.

Extreme feminists? lol! I hope you didn't lump me in that bunch.

Nah, you're cool.

[padawanmage]

Ramirez Wolfen wrote...

Can we stop arguing this? It's just a matter of opinion, and all the *extreme* feminists ALWAYS say that Hale is better. There is no better voice actor here. To be honest, I don't care for both. But in the end, no one should care. IT'S JUST A GAME.

Just as extreme chauvinists ALWAYS say Meer is better, right? 

Seriously, I can't believe this post keeping going and going like an Energizer Bunny.

Some people think Meer should be nominated Best Actor for his portrayal of an Elcor, some think that Hale is the next best thing to sliced bread.

Can we just all move on? 

Ok,

[Ramirez Wolfen]

padawanmage wrote...

Ramirez Wolfen wrote...

Can we stop arguing this? It's just a matter of opinion, and all the *extreme* feminists ALWAYS say that Hale is better. There is no better voice actor here. To be honest, I don't care for both. But in the end, no one should care. IT'S JUST A GAME.

Just as extreme chauvinists ALWAYS say Meer is better, right? 

Seriously, I can't believe this post keeping going and going like an Energizer Bunny.

Some people think Meer should be nominated Best Actor for his portrayal of an Elcor, some think that Hale is the next best thing to sliced bread.

Can we just all move on? 

Ok,

Of course. I should have put that in my post.

[Lee337]

android654 wrote...

Have you ever studied art or acting as a medium? Not everything in art is subjective, most things aren't. There's a difference between cubism and fresco, yes they're both paintings and you may like one more than the other, but one will be one type of painting and not the other. Same goes for acting there is good voice acting and there is script reading. There is a criteria for acting, that if its not met, then its mediocre or even parodying the actual form.

Now, once again if one is judging which they like more, then its a free for all as to which is preferable. But if we're judging acting by a real criteria, Even Stanislavaski would agree that one has the talent to emote more than the other.

Like JoJon has said, Shepard isn't the most dynamic character, but Hale has tried to inject emotion into the character's dialogue, while Meer is simply reading.

I haven't studied, I am a self taught artist. I don't believe you need to study art in order to understand it or form opinions on it (and I'm not just talking about liking something).

So again I still disagree.

You keep saying peoples opinions are valid only for judging which they like. Which just isn't true.

Focusing on the Hale and Meers, you telling me that I'm free to have an opinion as long it's limited to weather I like or dislike something, but that I must accept that Hale is more emotive because it is fact. No. Just no.

To me I think Meers is just more subtle with the emotions and gives a more realistic performance than Hale. But you're saying that my opinion is invalid because it's a you say it's a fact that Meer just script reads?

You used the examples of cubism and fresco to compare, and I think it's an awful example, as they are trying to accomplish different things entirely. That would be like one voice actor voicing a happy go lucky cartoon bear and the other a suicidal young girl. Too different.

Hale and Meer have the same goal, but they use a different style. It is like two versions of the same picture, by different artists, they will look different because the artists will have different styles and it is opinion which one capture emotion best, not fact. 

[Lee337]

Nyoka wrote...

Lee337 wrote...

To me I think Meers is just more subtle with the emotions and gives a more realistic performance than Hale.

Can you point out specific examples? Concrete sentences? (This is not rethoric. I'm genuinely interested since I can't come up with many)

When I play as Mrs Shep I constantly feel like the voice is being put on, which it is I guess, in order to sound tough. Mr Shep just feels more real to me, I can listen to him without being pull out of the immersion. I can't really pick specific examples, its been about 4 months since I played as male shep and I'm really talking about the performance as a whole.
Not a fan of his paragon romance lines though.

[Naltair]

Nyoka wrote...

Uh-huh. Okay.

Your defense Hale is admirable can you accept that people just prefer Meer or are we all deluded fools?

[Phategod1]

I can't believe she has not been in more movies she's so beautiful.

[Lee337]

I think it was the "Uh huh" that made it sound sarcastic intentional or not, but I'm not bothered either way because there is no right or wrong and I'm not arguing that either Meer or Hale is better.

[habitat 67]

Your meaning was perfectly understandable, Nyoka.

[Ramirez Wolfen]

STILL????

Come on, folks it doesn't matter. It's just a matter of opinion. NEITHER is better than the other. Can we PLEASE let this die?

[Lee337]

Ramirez Wolfen wrote...

STILL????

Come on, folks it doesn't matter. It's just a matter of opinion. NEITHER is better than the other. Can we PLEASE let this die?

You know you don't have to read or post here...right? The last few pages are mostly me was with android who says opinions don't matter not about who is better.