Aller au contenu

Photo

Jennifer Hale Interview + Female Shepard Thoughts...


  • Veuillez vous connecter pour répondre
276 réponses à ce sujet

#251
Naltair

Naltair
  • Members
  • 3 443 messages

Nyoka wrote...
I asked him examples because I couldn't think of many myself. He didn't remember. I said okay. From which you conclude that I say that anybody who prefers Meer is a deluded fool.

A little bit defensive, aren't we?

I got the meaning but it did seem sarcastic and somewhat condescending, but when you ask for concrete evidence that will be subjective anyways it seems kind of odd.

Honestly I am on the side that does not really think this is a huge deal but find the divisiveness in the community to be much more interesting.  I don't have anything to prove because in the end who is "better" does not in anyway affect my playthrough.

Modifié par Naltair, 21 mars 2011 - 12:33 .


#252
Ramirez Wolfen

Ramirez Wolfen
  • Members
  • 2 607 messages

Lee337 wrote...

Ramirez Wolfen wrote...

STILL????

Come on, folks it doesn't matter. It's just a matter of opinion. NEITHER is better than the other. Can we PLEASE let this die?


You know you don't have to read or post here...right? The last few pages are mostly me was with android who says opinions don't matter not about who is better.


But you know, we are actually off topic from the original thread discussion.

#253
Lee337

Lee337
  • Members
  • 550 messages

Ramirez Wolfen wrote...

Lee337 wrote...

Ramirez Wolfen wrote...

STILL????

Come on, folks it doesn't matter. It's just a matter of opinion. NEITHER is better than the other. Can we PLEASE let this die?


You know you don't have to read or post here...right? The last few pages are mostly me was with android who says opinions don't matter not about who is better.


But you know, we are actually off topic from the original thread discussion.


I could always make a topic entitled "ANDROID IS WRONG!!!" but it seems unnessasary.

#254
wolfennights

wolfennights
  • Members
  • 359 messages
Even though I prefer Hale's voice, Meer pulls off a few lines pretty well. Particularly the scene with Shepard getting drunk on the Citadel.

#255
android654

android654
  • Members
  • 6 105 messages

Lee337 wrote...

Ramirez Wolfen wrote...

Lee337 wrote...

Ramirez Wolfen wrote...

STILL????

Come on, folks it doesn't matter. It's just a matter of opinion. NEITHER is better than the other. Can we PLEASE let this die?


You know you don't have to read or post here...right? The last few pages are mostly me was with android who says opinions don't matter not about who is better.


But you know, we are actually off topic from the original thread discussion.


I could always make a topic entitled "ANDROID IS WRONG!!!" but it seems unnessasary.


A bit dramatic I think, but keeping in tune with the discussion I suppose.

Anyway, in a formal school of acting you'll learn that one of the most effective systems of acting is the "Stanislavaski System." It addresses theater acting mostly, but can be applied truly to any form of performance art. In this system you learn that the most important thing an actor can do in dialogue to communicate a scene to their audience is through inflection of the scene's tone.

Meer truly doesn't not meet this benchmark at the same rate that Hale does. If you're judging by an actual standard that classical trained actors study (Stanislavaski System, Method Acting , etc.) Then you can discern when someone is meeting those benchmarks and when someone is "phoning it in."

Many great actors, both mainstream and indie film actors, are guilty of doing amazing performances and lackluster ones back to back. Maybe Meer is amazing in another project, but after playing ME1 and ME2, full renegade, paragon and a balance in between, I have yet to see a "great" performance through all the dialogue in ME1 and ME2.

Here is a comparison of essential ME2, paragon and renegade dialogue performed by both Hale and Meer.



While it is getting lost in translation, I'm not saying Meer is horrid by any stretch of the imagination. There are clearly far worse choices, and I'm more than certain that there are more than a handful of people who could out perform both of them --that's true with most people in the world-- but at the very least its rather clear as to which of the two is more versed in their craft.

#256
The Shadow Broker

The Shadow Broker
  • Members
  • 636 messages
to be honest the male vanderloo faced shepard was much better done than the female counterpad to begin with, they portrayed male shepard on cover since day one, 2 late to change that right now in the third game, and also too confusing because we already saw male in trailers, posters etc.

I like the male shepard, they had to portrait only one to not confuse people and they stick with the one far better done and actually sexy. End of the story.

#257
Lee337

Lee337
  • Members
  • 550 messages
Again, it's not clear because there wouldn't be any discussion if it was.

#258
Guest_Nyoka_*

Guest_Nyoka_*
  • Guests

Lee337 wrote...

Again, it's not clear because there wouldn't be any discussion if it was.

From what I've heard, there seems to be a lot of discussion about things like evolution and global warming in America :)

#259
Naltair

Naltair
  • Members
  • 3 443 messages
As long as there is a choice there will be discussion.

#260
Almostfaceman

Almostfaceman
  • Members
  • 5 463 messages

Nyoka wrote...

Lee337 wrote...

Again, it's not clear because there wouldn't be any discussion if it was.

From what I've heard, there seems to be a lot of discussion about things like evolution and global warming in America :)


There's a lot of discussion about those things all over the world.  What's your point and what do they have to do with a person's preference with regards to voice actors?

#261
Guest_Nyoka_*

Guest_Nyoka_*
  • Guests

Almostfaceman wrote...
What's your point and what do they have to do with a person's preference with regards to voice actors?

The point is that not because something is clear it won't be discussed at all. It has to do with a post I was replying to, in which the poster said that this thing is necessarily unclear because people are discussing it, when in fact you can discuss pretty clear things.

I agree with Naltair: as long as there is a choice, there will be discussion. Nicely put. Since there will be discussion, we might as well hear some arguments. That's what forums are for anyway, right?

Modifié par Nyoka, 21 mars 2011 - 02:29 .


#262
padawanmage

padawanmage
  • Members
  • 114 messages

The Shadow Broker wrote...

to be honest the male vanderloo faced shepard was much better done than the female counterpad to begin with, they portrayed male shepard on cover since day one, 2 late to change that right now in the third game, and also too confusing because we already saw male in trailers, posters etc.

I like the male shepard, they had to portrait only one to not confuse people and they stick with the one far better done and actually sexy. End of the story.


In your opinion, of course.

*looks at your avatar pic* Um, that's not exactly sexy...is it?  :lol:

#263
Almostfaceman

Almostfaceman
  • Members
  • 5 463 messages

Nyoka wrote...

Almostfaceman wrote...
What's your point and what do they have to do with a person's preference with regards to voice actors?

The point is that not because something is clear it won't be discussed at all. It has to do with a post I was replying to, in which the poster said that this thing is necessarily unclear because people are discussing it, when in fact you can discuss pretty clear things.

I agree with Naltair: as long as there is a choice, there will be discussion. Nicely put. Since there will be discussion, we might as well hear some arguments. That's what forums are for anyway, right?


Yup, that's what they're for.  :)

#264
android654

android654
  • Members
  • 6 105 messages

Lee337 wrote...

Again, it's not clear because there wouldn't be any discussion if it was.


If you were applying a formal analysis of acting, --like I mentioned-- an analysis that most professional actors take quite seriously, you should be able to arrive at a conclusion.

Nyoka wrote...

Lee337 wrote...

Again, it's not clear because there wouldn't be any discussion if it was.

From what I've heard, there seems to be a lot of discussion about things like evolution and global warming in America :)


And people will continue to ignore the obvious simply because.

Modifié par android654, 21 mars 2011 - 04:09 .


#265
Almostfaceman

Almostfaceman
  • Members
  • 5 463 messages

android654 wrote...

Lee337 wrote...

Again, it's not clear because there wouldn't be any discussion if it was.


If you were applying a formal analysis of acting, --like I mentioned-- an analysis that most professional actors take quite seriously, you should be able to arrive at a conclusion.

Nyoka wrote...

Lee337 wrote...

Again, it's not clear because there wouldn't be any discussion if it was.

From what I've heard, there seems to be a lot of discussion about things like evolution and global warming in America :)


And people will continue to ignore the obvious simple because.


So, when two professional casting directors evaluate an actors' ability (as I have witnessed personally more than a few times) and come to two different conclusions what happens to the formal analysis of acting?  Is one professional casting director more right or wrong than the other?   If so, how is that measured?

Speak plain, are you saying that my opinion is less valid than yours because I haven't applied your criteria?  :whistle:

#266
InvaderErl

InvaderErl
  • Members
  • 3 884 messages

android654 wrote...

If you were applying a formal analysis of acting, --like I mentioned-- an analysis that most professional actors take quite seriously, you should be able to arrive at a conclusion.


Image IPB

The arrogance on display is amazing.

Almostfaceman wrote...


Speak plain, are you saying that my opinion is less valid than yours because I haven't applied your criteria?  [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/whistling.png[/smilie]


You have a different opinion so you are wrong...

Apparently.

Haven't you been paying attention?

Modifié par InvaderErl, 21 mars 2011 - 04:01 .


#267
android654

android654
  • Members
  • 6 105 messages

Almostfaceman wrote...

android654 wrote...

Lee337 wrote...

Again, it's not clear because there wouldn't be any discussion if it was.


If you were applying a formal analysis of acting, --like I mentioned-- an analysis that most professional actors take quite seriously, you should be able to arrive at a conclusion.

Nyoka wrote...

Lee337 wrote...

Again, it's not clear because there wouldn't be any discussion if it was.

From what I've heard, there seems to be a lot of discussion about things like evolution and global warming in America :)


And people will continue to ignore the obvious simple because.


So, when two professional casting directors evaluate an actors' ability (as I have witnessed personally more than a few times) and come to two different conclusions what happens to the formal analysis of acting?  Is one professional casting director more right or wrong than the other?   If so, how is that measured?

Speak plain, are you saying that my opinion is less valid than yours because I haven't applied your criteria?  :whistle:


I'm saying your opinion is less valid if you're not applying the criteria that an actor would use to evaluate themselves.

If you're thinking in terms of "I like, I think it sounds cooler, etc." then you're not critiquing the artist by their craft.

Even if a singer has a blessed voice of an angel, but has not talent and/or experience on how to use it, it's a waste. Without the talent to have range and control over that voice, they'll never be better than someone with an average or even bad sounding voice who has mastered the fundamentals of singing. Different art mediums, but the same concept applies.

And, if you've been to casting calls, you know a casting director more often than not casts style over substance, depending on the venue, for marketability purposes. They'll audition an actor who's extremly talented, can master the body language of the character, their history, their psychology down to a tee, and dismiss her if she's three inches too tall for the role. It happens to so many actors and models, that casting directors will almost overlook talent for the sole purpose of selling their product. Can't really blame them, it's their job, but their paid to sell not seek talent.

Think of Steven Tyler, honestly think of the sound of his voice, its raspy, strained and unpleasant to hear him speak, but when he sings, he has true mastery over his voice. So despite what he sounds like, its over powered by the talent and experience he has over his own voice.

That aside, I'm not arguing for or against the marketability of the character, I'm arguing over sheer talent of the two shepards.

#268
android654

android654
  • Members
  • 6 105 messages

InvaderErl wrote...

android654 wrote...

If you were applying a formal analysis of acting, --like I mentioned-- an analysis that most professional actors take quite seriously, you should be able to arrive at a conclusion.


Image IPB

The arrogance on display is amazing.

Almostfaceman wrote...


Speak plain, are you saying that my opinion is less valid than yours because I haven't applied your criteria?  [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/whistling.png[/smilie]


You have a different opinion so you are wrong...

Apparently.

Haven't you been paying attention?


Talk to any working actor, and see if they don't mention any sort of criteria when approaching a new project. If they're serious about their work, they have a criteriea they judge themselves by  in order to know if they're doing a good job or not.

#269
InvaderErl

InvaderErl
  • Members
  • 3 884 messages
And again,

the arrogance on display is amazing.

I'm sorry but you simply saying so does not make your opinion an objective fact. You're sprouting a lot of well written meaningless nonsense that really boils down to "I LIKE HALE BETTER" while trying to pass it off as something more substantial. People have come out in support of Meer which blows holes in your little theory that Hale is in some way fundamentally, undeniably the better of the two. If you can't get your head around that then I'm sorry you're so narrow minded that you can't accept that like any performance or piece of art the viewer's experience is going to be subjective. People are going to interpret and see Meer and Hale's performance differently than you. Its not the end of the world and you don't need to somehow try to convince people that you are the sole holder of truth in order to back up your opinion because its getting a little farcical at this point as your argument has devolved to "YOUR OPINION IS WRONG. MY OPINION IS FACT!"

Modifié par InvaderErl, 21 mars 2011 - 04:30 .


#270
Almostfaceman

Almostfaceman
  • Members
  • 5 463 messages

android654 wrote...

Almostfaceman wrote...

android654 wrote...

Lee337 wrote...

Again, it's not clear because there wouldn't be any discussion if it was.


If you were applying a formal analysis of acting, --like I mentioned-- an analysis that most professional actors take quite seriously, you should be able to arrive at a conclusion.

Nyoka wrote...

Lee337 wrote...

Again, it's not clear because there wouldn't be any discussion if it was.

From what I've heard, there seems to be a lot of discussion about things like evolution and global warming in America :)


And people will continue to ignore the obvious simple because.


So, when two professional casting directors evaluate an actors' ability (as I have witnessed personally more than a few times) and come to two different conclusions what happens to the formal analysis of acting?  Is one professional casting director more right or wrong than the other?   If so, how is that measured?

Speak plain, are you saying that my opinion is less valid than yours because I haven't applied your criteria?  :whistle:


I'm saying your opinion is less valid if you're not applying the criteria that an actor would use to evaluate themselves.

If you're thinking in terms of "I like, I think it sounds cooler, etc." then you're not critiquing the artist by their craft.

Even if a singer has a blessed voice of an angel, but has not talent and/or experience on how to use it, it's a waste. Without the talent to have range and control over that voice, they'll never be better than someone with an average or even bad sounding voice who has mastered the fundamentals of singing. Different art mediums, but the same concept applies.

And, if you've been to casting calls, you know a casting director more often than not casts style over substance, depending on the venue, for marketability purposes. They'll audition an actor who's extremly talented, can master the body language of the character, their history, their psychology down to a tee, and dismiss her if she's three inches too tall for the role. It happens to so many actors and models, that casting directors will almost overlook talent for the sole purpose of selling their product. Can't really blame them, it's their job, but their paid to sell not seek talent.

Think of Steven Tyler, honestly think of the sound of his voice, its raspy, strained and unpleasant to hear him speak, but when he sings, he has true mastery over his voice. So despite what he sounds like, its over powered by the talent and experience he has over his own voice.

That aside, I'm not arguing for or against the marketability of the character, I'm arguing over sheer talent of the two shepards.


So, you duck the question and assume you know the facts of the casting director situation.  Interesting.  In that situation, the casting directors were evaluating acting ability.  So your point of "style over substance" doesn't apply.  They had no hard and fast way to factually say X actor is better than Y.

I have sang and have been judged and then I've seen judge scores.  They vary, sometimes wildly, because it's subjective.  They'll be using criteria, but how they experience my performance isn't hard science.  Different ears, different moods, different expectations, different personalities, different tastes all come into play when they judged me.  

You are trying to make acting methods and techniques sound like hard science.  They're not.  It's subjective.  So, while you may feel like you are more "in the know" because you are trained to look for certain things, in actuality it still all comes down to how you as an individual interpret what you are experiencing.  It's subjective.  My opinion is not less valid than yours.  Nor is yours less valid than mine.  That's not subjective, that's fact.

P.S.  If you really want to ****** off other people, keep acting like your opinion carries more weight than theirs.  It'll work.

P.P.S. To anyone else out there that doesn't agree with this person, dont let them intimidate you.  Your opinion matters just as much as theirs.

#271
InvaderErl

InvaderErl
  • Members
  • 3 884 messages
Additionally Android has been appointed the bearer for their collective judgment on all matters apparently. When and where this happened I'm not exactly sure.

Modifié par InvaderErl, 21 mars 2011 - 04:47 .


#272
android654

android654
  • Members
  • 6 105 messages

Almostfaceman wrote...

android654 wrote...

Almostfaceman wrote...

android654 wrote...

Lee337 wrote...

Again, it's not clear because there wouldn't be any discussion if it was.


If you were applying a formal analysis of acting, --like I mentioned-- an analysis that most professional actors take quite seriously, you should be able to arrive at a conclusion.

Nyoka wrote...

Lee337 wrote...

Again, it's not clear because there wouldn't be any discussion if it was.

From what I've heard, there seems to be a lot of discussion about things like evolution and global warming in America :)


And people will continue to ignore the obvious simple because.


So, when two professional casting directors evaluate an actors' ability (as I have witnessed personally more than a few times) and come to two different conclusions what happens to the formal analysis of acting?  Is one professional casting director more right or wrong than the other?   If so, how is that measured?

Speak plain, are you saying that my opinion is less valid than yours because I haven't applied your criteria?  :whistle:


I'm saying your opinion is less valid if you're not applying the criteria that an actor would use to evaluate themselves.

If you're thinking in terms of "I like, I think it sounds cooler, etc." then you're not critiquing the artist by their craft.

Even if a singer has a blessed voice of an angel, but has not talent and/or experience on how to use it, it's a waste. Without the talent to have range and control over that voice, they'll never be better than someone with an average or even bad sounding voice who has mastered the fundamentals of singing. Different art mediums, but the same concept applies.

And, if you've been to casting calls, you know a casting director more often than not casts style over substance, depending on the venue, for marketability purposes. They'll audition an actor who's extremly talented, can master the body language of the character, their history, their psychology down to a tee, and dismiss her if she's three inches too tall for the role. It happens to so many actors and models, that casting directors will almost overlook talent for the sole purpose of selling their product. Can't really blame them, it's their job, but their paid to sell not seek talent.

Think of Steven Tyler, honestly think of the sound of his voice, its raspy, strained and unpleasant to hear him speak, but when he sings, he has true mastery over his voice. So despite what he sounds like, its over powered by the talent and experience he has over his own voice.

That aside, I'm not arguing for or against the marketability of the character, I'm arguing over sheer talent of the two shepards.


So, you duck the question and assume you know the facts of the casting director situation.  Interesting.  In that situation, the casting directors were evaluating acting ability.  So your point of "style over substance" doesn't apply.  They had no hard and fast way to factually say X actor is better than Y.

I have sang and have been judged and then I've seen judge scores.  They vary, sometimes wildly, because it's subjective.  They'll be using criteria, but how they experience my performance isn't hard science.  Different ears, different moods, different expectations, different personalities, different tastes all come into play when they judged me.  

You are trying to make acting methods and techniques sound like hard science.  They're not.  It's subjective.  So, while you may feel like you are more "in the know" because you are trained to look for certain things, in actuality it still all comes down to how you as an individual interpret what you are experiencing.  It's subjective.  My opinion is not less valid than yours.  Nor is yours less valid than mine.  That's not subjective, that's fact.

P.S.  If you really want to ****** off other people, keep acting like your opinion carries more weight than theirs.  It'll work.

P.P.S. To anyone else out there that doesn't agree with this person, dont let them intimidate you.  Your opinion matters just as much as theirs.


If I were arguing that Hale is better because I think she's _____ then you'd have an argument. I'm not even using my own opinion as to why she's better anymore. All I'm saying is, to discern if an actor, any actor is a good actor, you need to critique their work with the critiquing method for that type of work, not inject your own opinion.

If you want to talk pure expression, then that's totally separate from a formal method. Interpretive dance is pretty, but if you're entering a salsa competition, you'll be laughed off stage, because you're not performing the dance that venue is for. No opinion as to who's the better dancer, if you can't dance salsa, you lose that competition. If you can't do voice acting, you lose that venue. No subjection, mere empiricism.

As for casting directors... If you know any actors, ask them why they didn't get this role or that role. More often than not, granted that said actor is trained and/or talented, it's a small seemingly insignificant thing. Some times the person's too thin, too fat, too short, too tall, wrong features, can't play a certain ethnicity, despite whatever ability or schooling they have. It's a staple in the industry.

Also, I'm not stopping anyone from speaking.

#273
Almostfaceman

Almostfaceman
  • Members
  • 5 463 messages

android654 wrote...

If I were arguing that Hale is better because I think she's _____ then you'd have an argument. I'm not even using my own opinion as to why she's better anymore. All I'm saying is, to discern if an actor, any actor is a good actor, you need to critique their work with the critiquing method for that type of work, not inject your own opinion.


Well, you have an opinion about what would make an argument, but that doesn't magically make it fact. And I'm saying you can't realistically keep your opinion out of any critiquing method.  It's a subjective matter.  I've witnessed it, very often.  As I mentioned before.

If you want to talk pure expression, then that's totally separate from a formal method. Interpretive dance is pretty, but if you're entering a salsa competition, you'll be laughed off stage, because you're not performing the dance that venue is for. No opinion as to who's the better dancer, if you can't dance salsa, you lose that competition. If you can't do voice acting, you lose that venue. No subjection, mere empiricism.


There is nothing purely empirical about judging whether or not someone can voice act.  But funny you mention dancing because you can take 3 judges (or 2, or 5, or whatever) and have them grade salsa dancers and each judge will have different scores than the other for the same dancer.  Because judging salsa dancers is subjective.

As for casting directors... If you know any actors, ask them why they didn't get this role or that role. More often than not, granted that said actor is trained and/or talented, it's a small seemingly insignificant thing. Some times the person's too thin, too fat, too short, too tall, wrong features, can't play a certain ethnicity, despite whatever ability or schooling they have. It's a staple in the industry.


I don't know if you're deliberately trying to confuse the issue or if you just don't get what I'm saying.  I'm not mentioning my casting director experience to say that that is how all casting decisions are made.  I'm using the experience to point out that two professionals (or 3, or 5, or whatever) can disagree on what a good actor is,  just as two professionals can disagree on what a good voice actor is, or what a good singer is.  Because it's subjective.  

Also, I'm not stopping anyone from speaking.


Well, you can't stop anyone from speaking.  So nobody made that claim.  But you and some other poster were making some snide comments about how others with different opinions are ignorant (comparable to someone who doesn't believe in climate change, blah blah) and you are "in the know" or whatever, and that may intimidate someone.  Or it may not.  Whatever.

#274
casedawgz

casedawgz
  • Members
  • 2 864 messages
Film/Acting is not an empirical science. There is no metric by which a performance can be concretely judged. Different critics can look at the same performance and come to wildly varying conclusions.

Look at the 2008/2009 Academy Awards and Golden Globes. Mickey Rourke took home the Best Actor Award at the Golden Globes for his role as Randy "The Ram" Robinson in The Wrestler. Sean Penn won Best Actor at the Academy Awards for his portrayal of Harvey Milk. Is one of these performances intrinsically better on a provable, scientific level? Is one of these institutions simply wrong in their assessment? No, that's utterly absurd. The critics responsible for awarding the Golden Globe were moved by Rourke. The Academy was moved by Penn. The Golden Globes are not perpetuating foolish delusions by judging Rourke's performance superior. They are simply expressing opinion on an entirely subjective matter.

Quite frankly, your arrogance is astounding if you think that Hale's alleged vocal superiority is an empirical fact.

#275
Lee337

Lee337
  • Members
  • 550 messages

android654 wrote...

Lee337 wrote...

Again, it's not clear because there wouldn't be any discussion if it was.


If you were applying a formal analysis of acting, --like I mentioned-- an analysis that most professional actors take quite seriously, you should be able to arrive at a conclusion.


I already arrived at a conclusion from the start .You keep throwing more and more different examples trying to illustrate the same point you were trying to make in your first post but you aren't really listening to what has been said.
You are stuck in the view that what you say is fact, which it isn't. I've made my point, I disagree with you.
You are making the mistake of thinking that because I (and everyone else in here it seems) don't agree with you, it means I don't understand your point. I understand it perfectly, and beileve you are wrong.

Almostfaceman wrote...
Speak plain, are you saying that my opinion is less valid than yours because I haven't applied your criteria?  :whistle:


Yes, just with lots of big words.

Modifié par Lee337, 21 mars 2011 - 08:21 .