264 réponses à ce sujet

[AutumnWitch]

*Apologies to the Morrigan Lovers*


Over the last few days I have played all the DA games with all the DLC's and the more I think on Morrigan the more I REALLY don't like her.

On the surface she seems like a nice character BUT everything she does is either for her own needs or wants... period.

In Witch Hunt she claims that Flemeth is the "real" enemy but let's look at Morigians behaviour.

She is never honest with anyone even at the end of DAO she is still lying and manipulating people including people she claims to care for.

Then in Witch Hunt she is acting "cagey" at best or "guilty"  at worst. She is clearly hiding something big.

Then she claims that everything she is doing is for the best BUT she refuses to say what even to the person who literally just saved Thedas from the blight AND helped her attain to her ultimate means. But given many chances she refuses to say what she intends to do and she also has a horribly arrogant attitude that ONLY she knows what is best for all of Thedas. Who the hell is she to decide the world's fate when all she has done is lie and betray time after time?

And furthermore if what she is doing is REALLY for the best then why not at least tell the Warden and ask for her/his help? The ONLY answer to this is that whatever she is doing is actually NOT good otherwise why hide it from the father of the child and/or someone who has the power and authority to make her job/desires A LOT easier? It makes no sense at all.

She claims that Flemeth is the great evil but what we have seen of Flemeth is all honesty even if it's something we don't want to hear. As far as we know she hasn't lied to either Hawke or The Warden and saved both of their lives without wanting anything in return except for Hawke taking her "horcrux" to the Dalish keeper and although she didn't tell Hawke what it really was Hawke actually didn't ask what it really was either. She even entrusts her daughter to the Warden for protection.

When Morrigan says "My plan is to leave, and prepare the child for what is to come. Such preparation requires time. And power. I must have both if I am to be successful. More than this, I dare not say. Even to you."

How can we trust someone so paranoid that not only helped her have the child but goes on about unchecked "power"? How can we trust someone who is so sure and arrogant to think no one even someone she claims to love, can possibly understand or be trusted with the knowledge of her plans? This is not a sign of someone to be trusted or taken at her word. This is the behaviour of someone doing something she clearly knows is at least, on some level, wrong.

Then Morrigan goes on to say, "I thought I knew what Flemeth planned. I thought what she craved was immortality. And yet I was wrong. So very wrong. She is no blood mage, no abomination... She is not even truly human. The ritual was but a means to an end, a herald for what is to come."

If we can trust what she says as being true here, I think she is alluding to Flemeth being either the cataylist or the actual leader of the powers that cause tear in the veal. If that is correct then we have to assume that Flemeth wants the humanoid races to suffer a bad end BUT if this is the case why help the Warden stop the blight in the first place? Even if Flemth's ultimate goal was to tear the veil and let the baddies rain supreme why not just let the blight wipe out the humanoid races then create the tear and have no one left to oppose her? It makes no sense at all. 

I think its obvious that Morrigan wants the child to stop Flemeth BUT lets look at this? What is the child actually going to be? There are probably only two options. The personification of the old god Urthemiel (male god of beauty) or the personification of the corrupted Urthemiel. How in the world would either of these two options help Thedas?

If the ritual cleaned the taint we will have a old VERY powerful old god running around most likely seeking to avenge his imprisonment or even if he is benevolent he will cause MAJOR problems for the Chantry who is already up to their neck with dealing with the mages thus on top of the tear society will most likely come undone.

If the ritual didn't clean the taint we will have an old god seeking his revenge on humanity and starting a blight! So between the tear in the veil and another blight, the humanoid races are done for.

I guess what I am trying to say is that I think that Morrigan is probably not the sad little martyr that many people thinks she is.

I know there are a lot of assumptions above but still I worry about her.

Thoughts?

[Barrendall]

That's what I like about this series. You truly make this story yours. So if this how you see Morrigan and her motives, then that's how she is. There really isn't a "Right" or "Wrong" opinion. It's your world and the events are yours to unfold how you see fit.

[Martyr1777]

Lol, Flemeth honest. If you believe that then I've got a bridge to sell you. Just because what she has told the player was true doesn't mean her motives for what she isn't saying are in any way good, and you can be sure she isn't saying quite a bit.

As for Morrigan, all this is what I like about her. She's a very interesting character that keeps you on your toes. Not one dimensional like others, very similar to why I lik Cole from Asunder not quite sure what the deal is so you want to explore more with them.

Modifié par Martyr1777, 18 janvier 2014 - 02:43 .

[Angrywolves]

The developers have said we'll see Morrigan's softer side.I suspect motherhood has softened her somewhat.

I like Morrigan.It's sort of like the snakehandlers.If they know they can be bitten then they know how to deal with the snake and respect what it can do.

I don't think Morrigan is the issue in DAI.I know some players want to kill her and are making excuses to do so. I don't care if they kill her in their playthroughs.I won't.

Modifié par Angrywolves, 18 janvier 2014 - 02:47 .

[ziloe]

Morrigan is her own person, that's why most people hate her character, because unlike the others, throughout the quest, she had her own motivations. And personally, I see nothing wrong with that.

If anything, they need more characters like Morrigan.

Modifié par ziloe, 18 janvier 2014 - 02:51 .

[TheKomandorShepard]

To be honest i think that morrigan is stupid evil cruel traitor and i don't trust her yet i even little liked her (when she wasn't bi***) so well my opinion is little mixed but i think your "hatred" clouded your judgment. You say that she claims that she knows what is best for thedas but i never heard that from her she was selfish and cruel but i doubt that she claimed that she knows what is best for thedas. 

When i don't trust either morrigan and flemeth if i would have to i would trust morrigan over flemeth for many reasons and mian one because morrigan is creation of flemeth if she is "bad" flemeth is bad as well.

Well probably morrigan cared about warden if was friend or lover judging by all of that stuff like comic.

Is morrigan horrible bit*** yes but i don't think so that she is as bad as you try paint her and thats from person who regularly clashes with her fans who try paint her in other way.

Modifié par TheKomandorShepard, 18 janvier 2014 - 03:05 .

[Nefla]

I see her as a very guarded and broken person who is only just learning to love and trust, but these things aren't instant. My first playthrough I hated her, she seemed like such an evil jerk but I think it's more of an "everyone should toughen up and deal with things like I had to" from someone who was never nurtured or loved. Morrigan is the pixelated sister I never had but always wanted!

[Gregolian]

I feel like Morrigan falls in that realm of "anti-hero" the way a character like Riddick from, well, the Riddick series, The Hound from Game of Thrones, or The Punisher is. What she is doing is for the greater good but she doesn't exactly know the best way to tackle it.

Part of that I chalk up to her upbringing severly secluded from the rest of society. I think the only way to see any sort of softer side is to be in a romance with her during a playthrough. It's pretty obvious to me at least she cares about The Warden and she even somewhat cares about Alistair given the fact that if you are a female she'll still offer the ritual at the end of Origins so that those she traveled with don't die.

[SgtSteel91]

I like Morrigan so whatever, OP

[Hellion Rex]

Angrywolves wrote...

The developers have said we'll see Morrigan's softer side.I suspect motherhood has softened her somewhat.

I like Morrigan.It's sort of like the snakehandlers.If they know they can be bitten then they know how to deal with the snake and respect what it can do.

I don't think Morrigan is the issue in DAI.I know some players want to kill her and are making excuses to do so. I don't care if they kill her in their playthroughs.I won't.

Totally with you.

[jkd1975]

AutumnWitch wrote...

On the surface she seems like a nice character... 

hmmm... see you lost me right there.

[Hellion Rex]

Barrendall111 wrote...

That's what I like about this series. You truly make this story yours. So if this how you see Morrigan and her motives, then that's how she is. There really isn't a "Right" or "Wrong" opinion. It's your world and the events are yours to unfold how you see fit.

^^This, x1000.

[Martyr1777]

Gregolian wrote...
It's pretty obvious to me at least she cares about The Warden and she even somewhat cares about Alistair given the fact that if you are a female she'll still offer the ritual at the end of Origins so that those she traveled with don't die.

Lol, that not why she wants to do the ritual I'm sure. But my main PC still did it for their relationship even though he knew she had other reasons. Not to mention   not wanting to die after being forced in the ranks of the Wardens

I find it funny how people (especially Bioware) talk about her 'softer' or 'more human' side showing more for DAI. I mean when you first meet her she's at her most human. If you are nice to her she is so totally lost in how to react and seems so vulnerable. Then she tells you about how hurt she was about the smashed mirror... suriously you aren't going to get softer than that from a Morrigan that now has FAR more power and is much more at ease around others.

[TK514]

Barrendall111 wrote...

That's what I like about this series. You truly make this story yours. So if this how you see Morrigan and her motives, then that's how she is. There really isn't a "Right" or "Wrong" opinion. It's your world and the events are yours to unfold how you see fit.

I like what you've said here.  This is a good way to look at it.

Personally, I agree with the OP.  Morrigan never showed that she was trustworthy, or had even the vaguest concern for anyone but Morrigan.  The closest I feel we got to genuine positive feelings for someone other than herself was when she is given the mirror gift.  And that is more confusion than any sort of permanent change in her essentially conceited and selfish worldview.

Frankly, I wouldn't trust her to buy milk without burning the farm down because the farmer dared to try to haggle, I certainly wouldn't trust her overt misanthropy when raising a child, potentially godlike or not.

If whatever Morrigan wants also happens to be good for the rest of the world, it is by coincidence, not design.

[General TSAR]

I prefer Morrigan the total bitch by Alistar.

Modifié par General TSAR, 18 janvier 2014 - 03:55 .

[Medhia Nox]

If Morrigan realizes the kind of selfish manipulative ignoramus she is - then perhaps I'll have some connection with her.

If she's anything like her Origins self - then I'll ignore her like I did there.

I don't play characters that kill people, but I would never be friends with a person like her, and I'm not in the habit of making characters that would be friends with her.

[Hellion Rex]

@OP, I think she is neither a betrayer, not a martyr. She's just...Morrigan. I would like to see how her character evolves from how Origins and Witch Hunt ended. She was almost like a sister to my male Amell. That being said, I hope that having a child within my universe, plus whatever else she has been up to, tempers her somewhat, forcing her to mature considerably.

Modifié par eluvianix, 18 janvier 2014 - 04:03 .

[Gregolian]

Martyr1777 wrote...

Gregolian wrote...
It's pretty obvious to me at least she cares about The Warden and she even somewhat cares about Alistair given the fact that if you are a female she'll still offer the ritual at the end of Origins so that those she traveled with don't die.

Lol, that not why she wants to do the ritual I'm sure. But my main PC still did it for their relationship even though he knew she had other reasons. Not to mention   not wanting to die after being forced in the ranks of the Wardens

I find it funny how people (especially Bioware) talk about her 'softer' or 'more human' side showing more for DAI. I mean when you first meet her she's at her most human. If you are nice to her she is so totally lost in how to react and seems so vulnerable. Then she tells you about how hurt she was about the smashed mirror... suriously you aren't going to get softer than that from a Morrigan that now has FAR more power and is much more at ease around others.

I'm probably wrong but didn't she say something like I hope all the best for you guys or some ****?

[zMataxa]

For me, Morrigan is a tough cookie that didn't have an easy life living both isolated and under Flemeth's tutelage .
She's a survivalist first. But she shows she has emotions. Will they unlock a sense of devotion in her? Only time will tell.
I think she's a great complex creature. If you're prone to looking for solid companion material - yeah she's higher risk potentially.
But could be worth it.

[Nightdragon8]

good greif... just because you the player AKA the reader, doesn't get the full info doesn't mean the character doesn't get the full info, its the part of Storytelling you need to understand. If your warden went with her I'm pretty sure she told you all her plans.

The problem is that when WH came out, the rest of the story hasn't been writen. Gaider himself probably doesn't even know exactly where the story is going to go. I'm sure he has an idea, but thats the thing with ideas, they can change. So if he where to spill the beans in the first game in ALL of her plans, then quite frankly people would have hated DA2 more than they did because "It didn't follow after what Morri's plans where" so even more people would be upset

As for Morri's demenor. being out for yourself isn't a crime, sorry its not, Maybe anti-social but in no way a crime. Look how she was brought up, pretty much Law of the wild, mixed in with "Burn the witch" flavoring. You can't tell me you wont be at least bit jaded. Also hearing your mother have there way with a man in the other room let me tell you, its tramatizing. Don't kid yourself it is. So maybe if you can see the world though her eyes, maybe it will help with your understanding.

Also, about Flemith. she is a "Grand chessmaster" She probably wrote that book just so she could make Morri do what she wants. While she may not be "evil" she is as you put it, out for herself, out for her own plans. And the Darkspawn wasn't part of her plans, as it seems it is pretty much the opisite. Now considering the plan was to "free" the Old God from its enslavment from the taint. Probably isn't a lynch pin of any kind, considering its an "option" (i know meta thinking) its just something of a "side project" of hers. In fact it was more than likly just a thoery she came up with and kept a daughter around just in case.

In D&D terms I would call her Chaotic Neutral. As it where. I think the Chaotic part speaks for itself considering she was all to willing to leave the Hawke family +1 to there deaths. At least until she read Hawke's future. And found out, Hey, this can fit into whatever plan.

Who knows maybe she is trying to collect "Hero's" to fight off something bigger and nastier than the darkspawn. (And maybe these are the events that she was thinking of defending against) Considering I think the tear in the Veil isn't really that great of a thing.

(wanna bet the next generation of kids are mostly going to end up mages)

Anyways thats my take on it, Wish I could get some feed back from Gaider on it, even a vauge, some right some wrong would be great, cause I would know I was on the right track =)

[Grieving Natashina]

I just wanted to point out something about mothers that I have observed over the years. Several of my friends have kids and my lil brother just had his first with his wife. I have watched these women change with motherhood, and some of them have been interesting. I have to chuckle a little bit when people talk about Morrigan softening due to motherhood, because that tends to be half of the story.

A softening of her character and demeanor makes sense, and it would continue her character arc from WH nicely. She had already seemed to change some (she smiled at my mabari and seemed sad but happy to see me) and I know that's a natural progression.

I also think that between Morrigan's wits, the "Game" in Orlais, she'll be in some ways more ruthless than ever. See, motherhood can bring out a very ruthless and dangerous nature even in the kindest of women. The term "Mama Bear" exists for a reason. Plus, while I'm not trying to make her into the villain her in this case, I do consider her anti-hero. I'd like to picture she's probably learned an important lesson in life: You catch more flies with honey than vinegar.

I'm really looking forward to seeing her again! I can't help but intrigued by this possibly kinder. and (far) more worldly Morrigan.

[Martyr1777]

Gregolian wrote...

Martyr1777 wrote...

Gregolian wrote...
It's pretty obvious to me at least she cares about The Warden and she even somewhat cares about Alistair given the fact that if you are a female she'll still offer the ritual at the end of Origins so that those she traveled with don't die.

Lol, that not why she wants to do the ritual I'm sure. But my main PC still did it for their relationship even though he knew she had other reasons. Not to mention   not wanting to die after being forced in the ranks of the Wardens

I find it funny how people (especially Bioware) talk about her 'softer' or 'more human' side showing more for DAI. I mean when you first meet her she's at her most human. If you are nice to her she is so totally lost in how to react and seems so vulnerable. Then she tells you about how hurt she was about the smashed mirror... suriously you aren't going to get softer than that from a Morrigan that now has FAR more power and is much more at ease around others.

I'm probably wrong but didn't she say something like I hope all the best for you guys or some ****?

lol, I say nice things to co-workers I don't like all the time. It's called keeping people you need happy and not causing waves.

I don't mean to say Morrigan wouldn't have felt something. But banging Alistair isn't exactly high on her list, especially not compared to OGB. If you romance her there is obviously some connection, but it doesn't trump her plans or she wouldn't have left with the Witch Hunt story... obviously.

[FreshRevenge]

Morrigan is my number 1 teammate. Even though she is aiming for something that doesn't make sense to me at the moment. Flemeth and Morrigan are both mysterious characters. Flemeth showing up in Dragon Age 2 with her unclear motives still makes me interested in what her role in this whole story is. I think Morrigan can be trusted, even though she doesn't tell you her plans.

You also have to see it from Morrigan's point of view. She is viewed as an apostate because she isn't part of the Circle of Magi or controlled by the Chantry. How would you feel if you were a prisoner in some tower because of a gift that was deemed dangerous because it may lead into blood magic and you would be killed by Templars? My Grey Warden has allowed Morrigan to speak her mind but there were times that I didn't agree with her disagreements. But I still value her friendship and still went through with her plan at the end. For me it seems right, even when I have no idea what she means by the old god story. Hopefully this will be cleared up in this game.

If I get the chance to speak with Morrigan with my Inquisitor, I hope I can be her friend.

[FreshRevenge]

I know there is a lot of head lines on the net that says Morrigan will not be part of your team but I heard she may in fact be part of your team. Can someone clarify this?

I wish that Morrigan would be a playable character again. She would be my number 1 again:O

[darkchief10]

I hated morrigan till i decided to romance her for teh lulz in one of my playthroughs, that became my main playthrough and avatar lol.You see a much more vulnerable and broken side to her if you romance her. I don't kid myself in thinking she doesn't have an end game for whatever she is doing, but my warden will go through hell itself for her. Went through the mirror with her for one.