264 réponses à ce sujet

[Jaison1986]

dragonflight288 wrote...

Though that doesn't mean that this person is good either. There's a middle ground between black and white.

I respect you and your opinions, but I actually have to disagree here. Maybe I simply ascribe to a different philosophy than you and I know there can be shades of grey, but more often than not I feel like good and evil are constants, alongside apathy. But I do believe that there are varying levels of good and evil.

I know it's not just me who believes this, but if I'm going to call something good or evil, that thing will ALWAYS be good or evil. I know it gets complicated if someone does an evil thing with good motivations, say stealing just so they have the money to put food on the table for their starving kids and that's really why they did it, but they still did steal, and if they get caught and arrested, then the kids would not only lose their care-giver but also their father/mother or whoever, and they end up worse off than before.

I think it's just subjeticve in the end. Some people will just think for example, that Loghain leaving the King and his man to die the right thing to do because he would be just sacrifing more lifes in an pointless battle, while other would argue betraying him was just vile and opportunistic. Morality is highly subjective in most of these things. 

[Vilegrim]

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

hhh89 wrote...

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

True i wouldn't put morrigan as grey due her being stupid evil crap she approves most dic*** actions even if they have no benefit at all or are harmfull for our mission pretty much she approves when we are mentally bullying dalish elf with werewolf wife for no reason as well when we kill merchant in lothering for no reason... her only bright side is if warden befriended her or she is in love with him...

She supported keeping the Anvil, which is definitely not harmful, since it benefits greatly the dwarves and our quest. Golems are much more powerful than dwarves.

Massive missing the point ... "even if they have no benefit at all or are harmfull for our mission " she is sadistic bit*** that support all "evil" options so pretty much every her suggestion is pointed just to make someone suffer... as i pointed helping someone then she says no (even it could give us benefit unless of course helping someone is makeing life miserable then yes) but causing harm or ignoring someone then she is always eager...

Not grey character almost pure black like darth sidious.... as i said her only bright side is if we are friend with her then she lacks of it...  

her credo is pretty much be strong or die.  Which given that this is during what could well be an apocalyptic war..kinda makes sense.  Do what makes you the strongest and sort out ethics after we win.

Modifié par Vilegrim, 20 janvier 2014 - 03:34 .

[Angrywolves]

I think a lot of this Morrigan is sadistic stuff comes from players who didn't do the DR and/or who stabbed her at the Eluvian.
And they want to kill her in DAI. So all this she is a b stuff is their justification for not doing the DR and for planning to kill her in DAI if they have the chance..And that's fine if they are planning on or want to kill her:innocent:.

Morrigan is antisocial and selfish and that is who she is,I don't feel she is evil for evil's sake and like the developers say I believe she has changed since DAO.

Like I have said, if Bioware gives them the chance to kill her in DAI I hope they take it. But I wish they would leave the b language alone until then.<_<

Modifié par Angrywolves, 20 janvier 2014 - 03:41 .

[superdeathdealer14]

Angrywolves wrote...

I think a lot of this Morrigan is sadistic stuff comes from players who didn't do the DR and/or who stabbed her at the Eluvian.
And they want to kill her in DAI. So all this she is a b stuff is their justification for not doing the DR and for planning to kill her in DAI if they have the chance..And that's fine if they are planning on or want to kill her:innocent:.

Morrigan is antisocial and selfish and that is who she is,I don't feel she is evil for evil's sake and like the developers say I believe she has changed since DAO.

Like I have said, if Bioware gives them the chance to kill her in DAI I hope they take it. But I wish they would leave the b language alone until then.<_<

Sometimes I wonder why no one has gone to your house and given you a medal for the stuff you post. 

Modifié par superdeathdealer14, 20 janvier 2014 - 03:47 .

[The Elder King]

dragonflight288 wrote...

I respect you and your opinions, but I actually have to disagree here. Maybe I simply ascribe to a different philosophy than you and I know there can be shades of grey, but more often than not I feel like good and evil are constants, alongside apathy. But I do believe that there are varying levels of good and evil.

Fair enough. I don't have problems with people having different opinions and beliefs from mine. I'd like to ask, though, were you'd put Morrigan in your scale.
And thanks about the first phrase. I respect you too, and I enjoy reading your posts.

I know it's not just me who believes this, but if I'm going to call something good or evil, that thing will ALWAYS be good or evil. I know it gets complicated if someone does an evil thing with good motivations, say stealing just so they have the money to put food on the table for their starving kids and that's really why they did it, but they still did steal, and if they get caught and arrested, then the kids would not only lose their care-giver but also their father/mother or whoever, and they end up worse off than before.

I don't understand what you meant with the first phrase. I agree that if someone commit an evil action that action is evil. But in my opinion committing an evil action doesn't necessarily mean that person is evil (it depends on different factors, like the type of action or the motivation). 

[Angrywolves]

superdeathdealer14 wrote...

Angrywolves wrote...

I think a lot of this Morrigan is sadistic stuff comes from players who didn't do the DR and/or who stabbed her at the Eluvian.
And they want to kill her in DAI. So all this she is a b stuff is their justification for not doing the DR and for planning to kill her in DAI if they have the chance..And that's fine if they are planning on or want to kill her:innocent:.

Morrigan is antisocial and selfish and that is who she is,I don't feel she is evil for evil's sake and like the developers say I believe she has changed since DAO.

Like I have said, if Bioware gives them the chance to kill her in DAI I hope they take it. But I wish they would leave the b language alone until then.<_<

Sometimes I wonder why no one has gone to your house and given you a medal for the stuff you post. 

I post for myself not  what others think or believe about it.
Anything else ?:innocent:

[Jedimaster88]

Im looking forward to seeing her again in DAI.

Even though I romance her almost every time, I admit there are moments when she is..well irritating with her disaproval. There are some moments when I wish there was some dialogue options that you could use to try to make her see the situation differently. Redcliffe and the mage tower for example.

In Redcliffe I would like to explain her why its not only the right thing to do but also reasonable to help the village.
By defending the village we kill many undead meaning there will be less of them in the castle later because thats where we must go anyway. We also need more soldiers so by saving redcliffe we get more troops to fight darkspawn. Eamon will propably be more grateful and more willing to help me if his people are saved. Word could later be sent and my actions could actually inspire more people to fight at my side and make Loghain lose support. Finally what kind of hero would I be if I abandon people when I could help them.

In the mage tower I would like to explain her that Im not going to kill all the mages just because she dislikes them and her reasonings arent good enough. I´ve seen what a single mage can do so I definetely want as much of them to fight the darkspawn as possible. We´re going to have plenty of people with swords already so we need something else also.

If only we could explain something similar to her in those situations, she might not be so eager to disaprove.

I hope Wynne is correct and Morrigan´s relationship with my warden could be a good influence for her. I want to see her at least mention the warden and maybe she could tell about their relationship and the effect it had on her. People can change.

Modifié par Jedimaster88, 20 janvier 2014 - 05:50 .

[KC_Prototype]

She's not evil, just raised by a creepy, old hag who talks too much. I love Morrigan as a character and could never kill her, she's too bad ass. Why could.

[Angrywolves]

There are some players that want to kill her.
Shrugs.

I hope Bioware lets them.

[Lulupab]

Jedimaster88 wrote...

Im looking forward to seeing her again in DAI.

Even though I romance her almost every time, I admit there are moments when she is..well irritating with her disaproval. There are some moments when I wish there was some dialogue options that you could use to try to make her see the situation differently. Redcliffe and the mage tower for example.

In Redcliffe I would like to explain her why its not only the right thing to do but also reasonable to help the village.
By defending the village we kill many undead meaning there will be less of them in the castle later because thats where we must go anyway. We also need more soldiers so by saving redcliffe we get more troops to fight darkspawn. Eamon will propably be more grateful and more willing to help me if his people are saved. Word could later be sent and my actions could actually inspire more people to fight at my side and make Loghain lose support. Finally what kind of hero would I be if I abandon people when I could help them.

In the mage tower I would like to explain her that Im not going to kill all the mages just because she dislikes them and her reasonings arent good enough. I´ve seen what a single mage can do so I definetely want as much of them to fight the darkspawn as possible. We´re going to have plenty of people with swords already so we need something else also.

If only we could explain something similar to her in those situations, she might not be so eager to disaprove.

I hope Wynne is correct and Morrigan´s relationship with my warden could be a good influence for her. I want to see her at least mention the warden and maybe she could tell about their relationship and the effect it had on her. People can change.

What is disturbing is the fact that how greatly she approves of cruel decisions the wardne takes (usually +5 or more). She reaches 100 approval VERY QUICKLY when following an evil minded warden. I think she is the easiest character to max approval with.

I'm not gonna kill her if the chance is given in DA:I. Even if I think she is evil when it comes to personality she hasn't done anything yet. I do like her but I think she is evil.

Modifié par Rassler, 20 janvier 2014 - 05:54 .

[AresKeith]

She's more grey than Anders

[dragonflight288]

Fair enough. I don't have problems with people having different opinions and beliefs from mine. I'd like to ask, though, were you'd put Morrigan in your scale.

Morrigan....well, I have never played a male Warden without romancing her so I know I like her. As to whether she is good or evil...I can't say. Survival and Power for Survival and power's sake isn't good or evil necessarily as it depends on what she plans to do with her survival and power.

I don't know enough about her end-game goal, and how much damage she may or may not cause. And if that suffering (if there is any as a result of her actions) serve a purpose.

An example of that last statement is Andraste. She led a rebellion of slaves against Tevinter. What she did likely killed tens of thousands of people, not to mention how many innocents may have been killed in the cross-fire. We know from Andraste' temple that the armies of Tevinter were starving to death, and that is serious suffering right there. I don't think Dragon Age covers this aspect of starving, but I can think of a few good examples from real life where a group of people are so hungry that they end up killing each other and resorting to cannibalism just to have some food, but there are no references of this ever happening in any of the lore so I can't say it happened, just saying it wouldn't surprise me if it did.

But the Tevinter Imperium was cast down in southern Thedas and the slaves freed, so people may see that all the death and damage caused was worth it.

Back to Morrigan. I suppose I have to say that I'm not sure where she is because I don't know enough about what she's been up to and how many people, if any, had suffered as a result of her actions, or what she's trying to accomplish.

I don't understand what you meant with the first phrase. I agree that if someone commit an evil action that action is evil. But in my opinion committing an evil action doesn't necessarily mean that person is evil (it depends on different factors, like the type of action or the motivation).

I suppose what I mean is if someone commits an evil action, that doesn't make them evil, it was just a person committing an evil action, and that it gets really complicated when a good person does evil actions for good reasons to determine if they were in the right or if they were not.

[Jaison1986]

Rassler wrote...

Jedimaster88 wrote...

Im looking forward to seeing her again in DAI.

Even though I romance her almost every time, I admit there are moments when she is..well irritating with her disaproval. There are some moments when I wish there was some dialogue options that you could use to try to make her see the situation differently. Redcliffe and the mage tower for example.

In Redcliffe I would like to explain her why its not only the right thing to do but also reasonable to help the village.
By defending the village we kill many undead meaning there will be less of them in the castle later because thats where we must go anyway. We also need more soldiers so by saving redcliffe we get more troops to fight darkspawn. Eamon will propably be more grateful and more willing to help me if his people are saved. Word could later be sent and my actions could actually inspire more people to fight at my side and make Loghain lose support. Finally what kind of hero would I be if I abandon people when I could help them.

In the mage tower I would like to explain her that Im not going to kill all the mages just because she dislikes them and her reasonings arent good enough. I´ve seen what a single mage can do so I definetely want as much of them to fight the darkspawn as possible. We´re going to have plenty of people with swords already so we need something else also.

If only we could explain something similar to her in those situations, she might not be so eager to disaprove.

I hope Wynne is correct and Morrigan´s relationship with my warden could be a good influence for her. I want to see her at least mention the warden and maybe she could tell about their relationship and the effect it had on her. People can change.

What is disturbing is the fact that how greatly she approves of cruel decisions the wardne takes (usually +5 or more). She reaches 100 approval VERY QUICKLY when following an evil minded warden. I think she is the easiest character to max approval with.

I'm not gonna kill her if the chance is given in DA:I. Even if I think she is evil when it comes to personality she hasn't done anything yet. I do like her but I think she is evil.

And I think that's what most players fail to see. Why kill her? She didn't do anything wrong in fact. The only people she ever killed were Templar hunters, and that was self defense. It's like people are judging her for having an opinion. It's after all, entirely up to the Warden (you) wether or not to do something evil. 

[Angrywolves]

Rassler wrote...

Jedimaster88 wrote...

Im looking forward to seeing her again in DAI.

Even though I romance her almost every time, I admit there are moments when she is..well irritating with her disaproval. There are some moments when I wish there was some dialogue options that you could use to try to make her see the situation differently. Redcliffe and the mage tower for example.

In Redcliffe I would like to explain her why its not only the right thing to do but also reasonable to help the village.
By defending the village we kill many undead meaning there will be less of them in the castle later because thats where we must go anyway. We also need more soldiers so by saving redcliffe we get more troops to fight darkspawn. Eamon will propably be more grateful and more willing to help me if his people are saved. Word could later be sent and my actions could actually inspire more people to fight at my side and make Loghain lose support. Finally what kind of hero would I be if I abandon people when I could help them.

In the mage tower I would like to explain her that Im not going to kill all the mages just because she dislikes them and her reasonings arent good enough. I´ve seen what a single mage can do so I definetely want as much of them to fight the darkspawn as possible. We´re going to have plenty of people with swords already so we need something else also.

If only we could explain something similar to her in those situations, she might not be so eager to disaprove.

I hope Wynne is correct and Morrigan´s relationship with my warden could be a good influence for her. I want to see her at least mention the warden and maybe she could tell about their relationship and the effect it had on her. People can change.

What is disturbing is the fact that how greatly she approves of cruel decisions the wardne takes (usually +5 or more). She reaches 100 approval VERY QUICKLY when following an evil minded warden. I think she is the easiest character to max approval with.

I'm not gonna kill her if the chance is given in DA:I. Even if I think she is evil when it comes to personality she hasn't done anything yet. I do like her but I think she is evil.

I think the quick approval stuff is for romances aka you can sleep with her as soon as Lothering stuff.B)

[KC_Prototype]

I won't kill her if it's possible. She's my Warden's love/baby mama! She'll be motherly and she is a fantastic character. I respect others' opionion to want to kill her in DA:O but what if what if she's changed?

[Hellion Rex]

AresKeith wrote...

She's more grey than Anders

Agreed.

[Iron Fist]

I just hope she's not the big bad. That would break my heart. 

[The Elder King]

@dragonflight288: About Morrigan, I agree that we don't known much about her goal and actions.
As for the second part of your post, it seems we have the opinion.

[Hellion Rex]

MevenSelas wrote...

I just hope she's not the big bad. That would break my heart. 

If anything, I think she'd be an anti-hero, nothing more. I don't think she'll be the big bad.

[Medhia Nox]

@KC_Prototype: I sincerely hope she IS changed.

I dislike Morrigan a great deal - but there are many characters I like far less than her (Merrill, Anders, Alistair are my big three).

I'm holding out hope that she can be the second non-PC mage on Thedas I can respect (the first being Wynne) - because the rest are crap in my opinion.

[Hellion Rex]

Medhia Nox wrote...

@KC_Prototype: I sincerely hope she IS changed.

I dislike Morrigan a great deal - but there are many characters I like far less than her (Merrill, Anders, Alistair are my big three).

I'm holding out hope that she can be the second non-PC mage on Thedas I can respect (the first being Wynne) - because the rest are crap in my opinion.

Burn...<_<

[The Elder King]

Medhia Nox wrote...

@KC_Prototype: I sincerely hope she IS changed.

I dislike Morrigan a great deal - but there are many characters I like far less than her (Merrill, Anders, Alistair are my big three).

I'm holding out hope that she can be the second non-PC mage on Thedas I can respect (the first being Wynne) - because the rest are crap in my opinion.

You don't think Malcolm Hawke was worthy of respect?

[The Elder King]

KC_Prototype wrote...

I won't kill her if it's possible. She's my Warden's love/baby mama! She'll be motherly and she is a fantastic character. I respect others' opionion to want to kill her in DA:O but what if what if she's changed?

We don't know if she'll be motherly, since the OGB might not be present in DAI. 

[Lulupab]

eluvianix wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

She's more grey than Anders

Agreed.

Morrigan hasn't done anything yet so Anders and Morrigan are not even compareable. DA2 is literally about Anders, he is easily and arguably the 2nd most important character in the plot after Hawke. SO we get to see a lot of Anders.

Morrigan just stands back and tells you kill them all, oh yes more power etc... but she doesn't actually do anything. We have yet to see in Inquisition.

No matter my views on her I always romanced her as male warden no matter the race. I never married Anora as a noble warden, it was always Morrigan. I guess I liked how evil, forbidden and exotic she was.

Modifié par Rassler, 20 janvier 2014 - 07:16 .

[Medhia Nox]

@hhh89: Didn't "meet" Malcom Hawke. He was the father of a protagonist I absolutely hated... for me, Malcom Hawke raised (or didn't really) a completely incompetent main protagonist.

@eluvianix: I'm just curious - and won't refute - but who else would you suggest I respect as a mage? Quentin? Orsino? Zathrian - Jowan - Morrigan - Uldred - Niall - Merrill? The Architect? Avernus?