264 réponses à ce sujet

[Veruin]

Rassler wrote...

Anyway do you guys think there is slightest chance we can get her as companion? 9. I'd rather have her than lets say cullen for example. She is the kind of evil that I like to have on my side. 

No.  I'm pretty sure David/Dev already said she won't be joining the party.  Ever.

[Wothen]

I dont like her either
I just need her so I have the possibility of playing a god-like PC

Modifié par Wothen, 21 janvier 2014 - 02:02 .

[The Elder King]

Wothen wrote...

I dont like her either
I just need her so I have the possibility of playing a god-like PC

I think that there are near zero chances of the Morrigan's OGB as the PC in a DA game. 

[Veruin]

Wothen wrote...

I just need her so I have the possibility of playing a god-like PC

Implying the PC isn't already a Demigod.

[Lord Raijin]

I like Morrigan as a character, but I can understand her stance as a person. I guess this is the counselor side of me that's dominating my decisions not to hate her as a person. She is not evil in my books. Morrigan lives in a world where people hate her because of who is she, a mage. A religion that has (or use to) an overwhelming power over people and their lifestyle. Can anyone here not blame her for being who she is? She was forced to live in the Korcari wilds because by Chantry law she broke the law by being who she is, and must be thrown away in some tower for the rest of her life.

Since she doesn't believe in the Maker and only to the old gods, she would be executed by the Templar's for being a heretic.

[The Elder King]

Lord Raijin wrote...

I like Morrigan as a character, but I can understand her stance as a person. I guess this is the counselor side of me that's dominating my decisions not to hate her as a person. She is not evil in my books. Morrigan lives in a world where people hate her because of who is she, a mage. A religion that has (or use to) an overwhelming power over people and their lifestyle. Can anyone here not blame her for being who she is? She was forced to live in the Korcari wilds because by Chantry law she broke the law by being who she is, and must be thrown away in some tower for the rest of her life.

Since she doesn't believe in the Maker and only to the old gods, she would be executed by the Templar's for being a heretic.

She never stated that she believe in the Old Gods. She believes they they exist, which isn't different from what the Chantry believes; but she never stated she's a follower of the Old Gods. Where did you get that?
And the other things you said have no relevance to Morrigan's personality; her dialogues shown clearly that Flemeth's teachings and education turned her into what she is now.

[Veruin]

hhh89 wrote...
She never stated that she believe in the Old Gods. She believes they they exist, which isn't different from what the Chantry believes; but she never stated she's a follower of the Old Gods. Where did you get that?
And the other things you said have no relevance to Morrigan's personality; her dialogues shown clearly that Flemeth's teachings and education turned her into what she is now.

It's just more of his anti chantry/pro mage agenda, trying to stir sympathy for his cause.  Moving on.

Modifié par Veruin, 21 janvier 2014 - 02:27 .

[Lulupab]

Well Morrigan indeed condemns the chantry any chance she gets so if he is trying to connect it to his anti chantry agenda, its a nice character to use.

[Dave of Canada]

She's going to be pissed that her only friend in the world--my Warden--stabbed her.

[legbamel]

The Templars execute people for heresy?

Loghain is a little-e evil. He's convinced himself that his desires happen to align with the greater good and sets aside his principles and his honor too easily in pursuit of them. He doesn't intentionally set out to make people suffer and take glee in the deaths of villagers eaten by dark spawn, he just rationalizes his awful decisions.

Morrigan isn't any more evil than he is, she's just not fooling herself about it. She takes a narrow view of the world when advocating responses or actions, always willing to let others fall by the wayside in pursuit of her goals. No matter her professed affection for the Warden or how much one might think a year spent travelling in the company of such good characters as Alistair and Wynne and such socially adept folks as Zevran and Leliana might change her understanding of people and morality, she still reacts the same to any choice to stop and help--with disapproval.

Put me in the camp that likes her character but not her. As devs have said the your choice whether to do the DR will be respected (and as the default world state includes one who did not) I'm pleased to think they won't pull some cheesy "motherhood made her a saint" change in her. I don't think it necessarily has that great an effect on women and certainly would not change so strong-willed and driven a woman as Morrigan!

[Ieldra]

Lord Raijin wrote...
I like Morrigan as a character, but I can understand her stance as a person. I guess this is the counselor side of me that's dominating my decisions not to hate her as a person. She is not evil in my books. Morrigan lives in a world where people hate her because of who is she, a mage. A religion that has (or use to) an overwhelming power over people and their lifestyle. Can anyone here not blame her for being who she is? She was forced to live in the Korcari wilds because by Chantry law she broke the law by being who she is, and must be thrown away in some tower for the rest of her life.

Since she doesn't believe in the Maker and only to the old gods, she would be executed by the Templar's for being a heretic.

Since my main Warden (also a mage) dislikes Chantry dominion just as much, as well as I (the player) do, she has my full sympathy, though I don't think she's religious at all. She acknowledges the Old Gods because she knows they exist, but I don't think she has a worshiper's attitude towards them - or towards anything.

Her contempt of the Circle mages can come across as blaming the victims, but in fact I think it's the result of thinking "The world could be different if they just didn't take the Chantry's crap" and resenting the mages for their inaction. She does have this survivalist mentality, though, where everyone who can't stand up for themselves doesn't deserve to live. I usually find this a despicable mindset, but most people who have that mindset are hypocrites. In her case it's easy to see she has it because she never found that anyone weaker than herself could be worth caring about. I think Motherhood might change her somewhat in that. I hope she keeps her cynical attitude and some of her expediency though. I would hate to see her completely whitewashed. Bioware has this regrettable tendency to do that to their "grey" characters, most notably with women.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 21 janvier 2014 - 02:54 .

[Lord Raijin]

Veruin wrote...

hhh89 wrote...
She never stated that she believe in the Old Gods. She believes they they exist, which isn't different from what the Chantry believes; but she never stated she's a follower of the Old Gods. Where did you get that?
And the other things you said have no relevance to Morrigan's personality; her dialogues shown clearly that Flemeth's teachings and education turned her into what she is now.

It's just more of his anti chantry/pro mage agenda, trying to stir sympathy for his cause.  Moving on.

And that sympathy is well justified and you know it.

If the Maker is truly real I just wish he would create a giant size hole and throw the Chantry and the Qunari into the pit and let them both fight to the death. Drown the survivors.

Thedas would benefit a lot if these two religions cease to exist.

[Veruin]

Lord Raijin wrote...
And that sympathy is well justified and you know it.

If the Maker is truly real I just wish he would create a giant size hole and throw the Chantry and the Qunari into the pit and let them both fight to the death. Drown the survivors.

Thedas would benefit a lot if these two religions cease to exist.

Only sympathy worth justified is that they are stuck with such power and thus attract demons as well as when their supervisors let them down.  Other than that?  None at all.

For Thedas, Qunari wouldn't really benefit them, but it wouldn't be a big lost there.  But the Chantry?  You're blind-sided by your mage agenda.  Thedas would truly suffer without them.  Well, the common folk would.

Modifié par Veruin, 21 janvier 2014 - 03:19 .

[CybAnt1]

I think that there are near zero chances of the Morrigan's OGB as the PC in a DA game. 

Not in DA:I anyway, unless OGB unnaturally ages, OGB will only be 8 years old in DA:I. 

I don't think it's confirmed OGB exists canonically in DA:I ... except for some dev references to motherhood, which I guess is saying "it's canon." Unless the Morrigan of DA:I had some other normal child from some other father ... ? 

If OGB exists, I wonder if it's a male or female child, if we ever see it/him/her, and if the paternity issue is never mentioned, as the father is often the Warden, but could be, theoretically, Alistair or Loghain. 

I guess she might mention something about the child's Gray Warden father, and not otherwise get specific. 

If we go get to see OGB, I wonder if there would be anything about it that makes it seem like an unnatural child. "Have you met my little Morrie Jr.? Such a nice child, except when her head spins around 360 degrees."

Modifié par CybAnt1, 21 janvier 2014 - 03:25 .

[Veruin]

CybAnt1 wrote...
*snip*

If you didn't do the DR, the OGB does not exist.  So, unless they ditch the save imports, the OGB will never hold any significant role, much less be the PC.

Also, the OGB is a male.

Modifié par Veruin, 21 janvier 2014 - 03:25 .

[CybAnt1]

Well, I note that while several commentators have said motherhood will be an aspect of Morrigan in DA:I, nothing that Laidlaw, Gaider, etc. have said suggests, "she will be a mother in DA:I" so I tend to agree with you. OGB will or will not exist depending on what you choose in the Keep as to your save state re the DR.

Of course, then, if it does exist, it apparently, from what I can see, will have no real effect on whatever she is up to in DA:I. Because she is up to something. THAT they HAVE said.

“[Morrigan] has a human role in this plot, which may surprise some people because they might only think of her as a plot device. She has this big plot she’s involved in, and while that’s true to an extent, I’m taking her to a human place. That will make sense after the fact.” – David Gaider, Bioware

To reiterate, if the OGB is like Schrodinger's Cat, which it apparently is, then it's not that part of that 'plot'. 

As to it being male ... yeah, apparently in Witch Hunt she says of OGB "He is beyond your reach". (Had to go back and check that.) So you're right. 

Modifié par CybAnt1, 21 janvier 2014 - 03:35 .

[The Elder King]

@Lord Raijin: so you would throw the Qunari and the Chantry, but not he Imperium? Great logic.

[Jaison1986]

Veruin wrote...

CybAnt1 wrote...
*snip*

If you didn't do the DR, the OGB does not exist.  So, unless they ditch the save imports, the OGB will never hold any significant role, much less be the PC.

Also, the OGB is a male.

Considering how much of an big deal the dark ritual was (even having an DLC focused on it), I doubt the OGB role will be so insignificant. If the child exist that is.

[Lord Raijin]

Veruin wrote...

Lord Raijin wrote...
And that sympathy is well justified and you know it.

If the Maker is truly real I just wish he would create a giant size hole and throw the Chantry and the Qunari into the pit and let them both fight to the death. Drown the survivors.

Thedas would benefit a lot if these two religions cease to exist.

Only sympathy worth justified is that they are stuck with such power and thus attract demons as well as when their supervisors let them down.  Other than that?  None at all.

For Thedas, Qunari wouldn't really benefit them, but it wouldn't be a big lost there.  But the Chantry?  You're blind-sided by your mage agenda.  Thedas would truly suffer without them.  Well, the common folk would.

Mages may attact demons but it is the templars who can be easily taken an avantage of by a demon. I saw one being seduced by a desire demon during broken circle. Their were also others who fell under demon control as well. It's not  only mages that demons goes after... it's anything that they can get their hands on... even cats.

For relgious purposes I would have to say yes, Thedas would truly suffer without them, but for non-relgious purpose Thedas can run just fine without them.

[Lord Raijin]

hhh89 wrote...

Lord Raijin wrote...

I like Morrigan as a character, but I can understand her stance as a person. I guess this is the counselor side of me that's dominating my decisions not to hate her as a person. She is not evil in my books. Morrigan lives in a world where people hate her because of who is she, a mage. A religion that has (or use to) an overwhelming power over people and their lifestyle. Can anyone here not blame her for being who she is? She was forced to live in the Korcari wilds because by Chantry law she broke the law by being who she is, and must be thrown away in some tower for the rest of her life.

Since she doesn't believe in the Maker and only to the old gods, she would be executed by the Templar's for being a heretic.

She never stated that she believe in the Old Gods. She believes they they exist, which isn't different from what the Chantry believes; but she never stated she's a follower of the Old Gods. Where did you get that?
And the other things you said have no relevance to Morrigan's personality; her dialogues shown clearly that Flemeth's teachings and education turned her into what she is now.

I was under the impression that Morrigan is a follower of the Old gods. Perhabs I'm wrong... Maybe she is a true atheist in Thedas, who knows.  Part of Flemeth teachings was to train Morrigan not to get involved in civilized society, and not to get emotionally attach due to her being a mage. If it wasn't for Flemeth harsh teachings Morrigan would've been caught by the Chantries hound dogs, and taken to the Circle; a prison.

Like Morrigan says beauty and love are fleeting and have no meaning. Survival has meaning. Power has meaning.That is most likley Flemeth teachings thats coming out of Morrigans mouth.

Modifié par Lord Raijin, 21 janvier 2014 - 04:32 .

[The_11thDoctor]

ziloe wrote...

Morrigan is her own person, that's why most people hate her charaHcter, because unlike the others, throughout the quest, she had her own motivations. And personally, I see nothing wrong with that.

If anything, they need more characters like Morrigan.

thats my feelings about her as well. Howv can omeone say they hate a person because they dont know her motives? How many men know the true motives of any women they wish to date, currently date, or been married to for years. Sometimes you only find it out after many years what she truly wanted if even she knew what it was she wanted. Everyone has motives

[CybAnt1]

Just as a side point, the Qun may or not be a religion, depending on your viewpoint.

The Qunari appear to not believe in deities at all.

They do believe in a fairly rigid moral order of nature, though, and that every being's role within it is predefined and predestined. Obviously, a lot of non-Qunari don't kin to that social/moral rigidity.

[The Elder King]

@Lord Raijin: she never stated such, and in banter with Leliana she stated she doesn't believe in deities.
As for the rest of your post, there is nothing that would lead us to believe that Flemeth's harsh teachings were necessary to avoid the templars: Malcolm Hawke educated Bethany and Hawke in a different way and they turned out fine. Flemeth certainly thaught her well how to hide herself from the templars, but that has nothing to do in the way she educated her, and in how she mold her personality.
Furthermore, Flemeth would've likely educated Morrigan in a similar way regardless of the Chantry's existence.

[Lulupab]

Destruction of chantry would please Morrigan but she doesn't care enough to do it.

[Laughing_Man]

CybAnt1 wrote...

Just as a side point, the Qun may or not be a religion, depending on your viewpoint.

The Qunari appear to not believe in deities at all.

They do believe in a fairly rigid moral order of nature, though, and that every being's role within it is predefined and predestined. Obviously, a lot of non-Qunari don't kin to that social/moral rigidity.

Semantics.

When people talk about the qunari as a religious group, they don't refer to the spiritual side of things,
but rather to the way they act as a group.

Derogatory names for non-believers? - Check.
Justifying horrifying acts of torture and violence because of their beliefs? - Check.
Violently enforcing their "religion" on others? - Check.
Strict rules that govern all aspects of life? - Check.
An extremely influencial caste of prists? - Check.