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Is a prequel definitely going to happen?


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#51
KaiserShep

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^And that's the rub.

Rehashing over historical footnotes would be a no-no, because frankly, they're not interesting in the least. Who cares about the first contact war? Who cares about the rebellions? All of this stuff has been a central point of some major issues throughout the trilogy, and they were resolved, and need to stay that way. But an obscure story that can occur without there being barely a peep about it in an entire trilogy prior requires a seriously involving plot that can be thoroughly engaging while being very small scale. This works for side plots, but I don't think BioWare would be able to pull this off. Imagine BW did something like DA2 and confined the character to a single area, but then made it so that the events that take place don't even affect anything beyond it.

Despite any griping over how the choices made in the original trilogy could not possibly be followed through faithfully in a sequel, the future at least leaves no constraints on new discoveries that can be made throughout the galaxy or how much things can be affected based on the decisions you make.

Modifié par KaiserShep, 21 janvier 2014 - 10:39 .


#52
JamesFaith

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KaiserShep wrote...

 But an obscure story that can occur without there being barely a peep about it in an entire trilogy prior requires a seriously involving plot that can be thoroughly engaging while being very small scale. This works for side plots, but I don't think BioWare would be able to pull this off. Imagine BW did something like DA2 and confined the character to a single area, but then made it so that the events that take place don't even affect anything beyond it.


Actually I would prefer this.

It isn't difficult to create such story, all they need is switch from soldier galactic hero to different type of character and change the tone of story. Stories with spies and Corsair, mercenaries in Terminus systems or good old story of revenge.. possibilities are countless. 

I can easily imagine some ME version of Alpha protocol where results of decision would be short time changes in goverments, mercenary groups or terrorist nad criminal groups (we haven't any details about galactic politics during this era) relevant for selfcontained prequel series.

#53
Grizzly46

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JamesFaith wrote...

Grizzly46 wrote...

No, the problem is twofold: first of all the protagonist must be human (since that is what all the kool kidz want, and they make up the bulk of the customer base so to not looking after what they want would be bad for business), and humanity has a ridiculously short time in outer space with only one major event having taken place before the reaper war.

So if I may check my crystal ball, I see a lot of retconning in the future for any Mass Effect games.

Which is a damn shame.


Only one big event mentioned in Codex during 30 years and Codex is far from complete ifnormation of history and was already actualized with Drells, Omega or Corsairs. You can easily add some smaller event in this mostly grey era, you can even add whole new war because Terminus systems are in perpetual state of local wars.

When on Earth is about 40 ongoing armed conflicts at this moment why there should be only two or three armed conflicts (FCW, Mindor-Torfan) in whole galaxy  during 30 years?


Sure, it's possible you can whip up something minor that happened during the 30 years of humanity in outer space, even if I think it would feel contrived - we have the firt contact war, Elysium and the batarian raid on Mindoir already, and how many more conflicts can you actually squeeze in? In a time period shorter than 30 years? In space? With not one mentioning in the codex? Ok, we might try.

But then we might get the same situation as with DA2 - there were tons of complaints about that since it didn't tie in with DAO enough, and nothing done in either game affected the other in any way. DA2 was essentially a sideshow to the main event in DAO and it was not popular.

#54
N7Gold

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It'll be tough to do so, in my opinion, because the history of the Mass Effect lore is so well established, an unmentioned adventure happening sometime before humans become a spacefaring race will be very messy, ruining the events of the timeline unless it is executed correctly.

#55
JamesFaith

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Grizzly46 wrote...

But then we might get the same situation as with DA2 - there were tons of complaints about that since it didn't tie in with DAO enough, and nothing done in either game affected the other in any way. DA2 was essentially a sideshow to the main event in DAO and it was not popular.


Bad example because DA2 was presented as sequel to DAO so expectations of closer ties were logical. They already took a lesson from it and new DA is without number.

And if they advertise such new prequel ME series from beginning as separate and not tied to Shepard story (they already starting with "no more Shepard") these complains would be pointless. 

#56
KaiserShep

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The way I see it, Mass Effect is just as much about the social issues that permeate throughout entire worlds as it is about its overarching plot. A prequel ensures that these things devolve and stagnate. The genophage is a prime example. The krogan define their existence on this, as it's been with them for over a thousand years. The quarians are in the same boat. They're perpetually doomed to live in a migrant flotilla fearing the geth if the writers intend to go on a narrative loop. These things matter a great deal when setting up the universe, and there's no way to brush them aside for a more intimate story, because BioWare is obviously going to use examples of these species as main characters. There's no technology that should be any more advanced than the other games. But you know that BioWare would not sit idly by and create an entirely new game without introducing whole new weapons, vehicles and armor sets that are more advanced than what we had before, because reusing the old designs would just be lazy. Heck, this was actually used as a joke parodying Star Wars.

Modifié par KaiserShep, 21 janvier 2014 - 01:09 .


#57
Shermos

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It probably won't be a prequel. It's likely to be a 'sequel' (not a direct sequel but post ME3), and it should be for the reasons people before me have already given. The next ME should take a similar tac to Star Trek: The Next Generation; A separate story with entirely new characters in a post ME3 setting.

There have been several dev tweets which subtly hint at a sequel and the leak from the private PAX meeting also hints at one. We don't know for sure if that leak is legit, but it's a pretty good bet.

#58
Grizzly46

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Shermos wrote...

It probably won't be a prequel. It's likely to be a 'sequel' (not a direct sequel but post ME3), and it should be for the reasons people before me have already given. The next ME should take a similar tac to Star Trek: The Next Generation; A separate story with entirely new characters in a post ME3 setting.

There have been several dev tweets which subtly hint at a sequel and the leak from the private PAX meeting also hints at one. We don't know for sure if that leak is legit, but it's a pretty good bet.


A sequel would be the worst case scenario they could do, since they either need to pick one ending to be canon (pissing off a lot of people in the process), or make pretty much completely different games based on those endings.

The reason that there must be an ending choosen is because no matter what, the reaper war put its mark on the galaxy. Apparently, even two years after Sovereign's attack, they were still clearing rublle on the Citadel. Now imagine cleaning up the mess after countless of reapers, plus the destruction/damage to the relays and worlds, and we are talking about repairs going on for millenias.

But on the other hand, humanity managed to get an influence rivalling both the asari and the turians in only 30 years, so perhaps that might be the solution - thros humans at the problem and the galaxy is spiffy clean in a couple of years instead. (anyone notice I take great offence at this gargantuan plot hole?)

Because humans are special! Yeah, humanity! 

#59
Shermos

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I don't think we have to to worry about a canon ending. The devs have said the next ME will be a self contained story. The events in the original trilogy will be referenced, but they won't be the focus. That's why it won't be a direct sequel. If it's going to be a sequel at all (it's not confirmed, only guess work from hints), It will be more in the vain of ST:TNG than Star Wars Episode V.

I feel the same way about a prequel or midquel which you do about a sequel. It's far too limiting to the franchise.

#60
Clips7

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I feel the same way about prequels and how they can restrict the creative process. Bioware just needs to make an entire new storyline, make refrences to what happened in ME3 (because honestly as epic as the whole storyline of ME was in general, how can they not?).

After that just create a new threat to the galaxy, just nothing as epic or huge as the reapers, but maybe something dealing with that dark energy or matter that the quarians was looking into in ME2 and how some rogue race wants to manipulate that energy to take over certain territories of the galaxy.

#61
KaiserShep

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Grizzly46 wrote...
A sequel would be the worst case scenario they could do, since they either need to pick one ending to be canon (pissing off a lot of people in the process), or make pretty much completely different games based on those endings.


I disagree that it's a worst case scenario, but that said, I believe that fans are going to be pissed regardless. A sequel has to deal with the ending choices, and a prequel will have the unavoidable, ominous black cloud of the trilogy ending for those who are totally disastisfied with ME3's conclusion, all the while dancing around the plot of the original trilogy so that there's no blatant discrepancies. There's no real way around that. In my opinion, the Mass Effect trilogy kind of seals its univere in such a way that putting anything substantial before or after is going to be equally problematic.

#62
Nitrocuban

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Fact: A sequel needs to leave ME3's ending behind.
Sounds impossible but I think the idea of a giant arche ship (+ fleet) sent to another galaxy during ME3 works totally fine.

#63
jamesp81

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I personally have no interest in a prequel or a midquel.  If it's a sequel, I'll look into it, pass otherwise.  As far as ending choices, BW is just going to have to declare canon and roll with it.  I don't have a problem with that in principle.

#64
jamesp81

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AlanC9 wrote...

Redbelle wrote...
Nooooo. The worst thing you can do is buy it a year after release when it's dropped in price to...'I want this off my shelf to make way for new releases' prices.

Funny thing, I did that with DA2 on account that I wouldn't be able to keep my grey warden.


I did that with DA2 myself. -- $8 -- though in my case it was that the demo was so damn ugly.

Funny thing is, it turns out I like the game fine.


I do that with most games, largely because I'm budget conscious.  Besides, if I wait I can usually get the game and all the DLC for a good price.

Modifié par jamesp81, 22 janvier 2014 - 05:38 .


#65
KaiserShep

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jamesp81 wrote...

I personally have no interest in a prequel or a midquel.  If it's a sequel, I'll look into it, pass otherwise.  As far as ending choices, BW is just going to have to declare canon and roll with it.  I don't have a problem with that in principle.


All things considered, I would rather BioWare canonized any ending, even one that I don't like, than go in the past. I want the universe to be updated from top to bottom. I want there to be new political issues between the different species, and I want the technology to be new without having that whole "How was the past shinier than the future?" problem.

#66
Armass81

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Nothing is set in stone yet, except that the new game(s?) take distance from Shepard.

Modifié par Armass81, 22 janvier 2014 - 10:40 .


#67
jasonxxsatanna

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jamesp81 wrote...

I personally have no interest in a prequel or a midquel.  If it's a sequel, I'll look into it, pass otherwise.  As far as ending choices, BW is just going to have to declare canon and roll with it.  I don't have a problem with that in principle.



If anyone can remember with Deux Ex you had 3 endings and for the sequel Deus Ex:Invisible War  , it takes place 20 yrs later you , you play as a new character. . . . with the sequel assuming that a combined action of all 3 endings took place . . . . making all 3 ending cannon.

Maybe the BW writers are make an effort to do the same, with ME4. . . . :whistle:

just my $0.02 . . .:P

#68
Massa FX

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Alt universe w Shepard! Which basically is a reboot.

I'm ok with a sequel if it makes sense.

I have doubts about a prequel. No mystery.

Midquel is possible but what protagonist is interesting enough to the galaxy during Shepards time? No-one.

#69
Redbelle

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Whatever BW do they could do worse than to watch the Zero Punctuation reviews of the whole ME trilogy and understand that compared to it's humble yet enthusiastically overeaching first entry into the franchise the third and final installment was basically reduced to a cover shooter which was fun for a few missions but quickly resulted in lengthy yawns as you hide behind conveniently placed waist high bullet proof obstructions and pop out everytime an enemy shows it's ugly face.

Say what you like about ME1 and 2 at least it offered a bit of variety between the shooty sections and doing so allowed you to exercise a few brain cells that weren't connected to your finger that controlled the 'fire button'.

The CoD comparison has been done to death but in Priority Earth this comparison rear's it's head and flout's its six pack while forgetting that for two years it's eaten nothing but fat burgers. The muscle might be there but no effort has been put into putting it on display to woo audiences with.

And for my money this logic says that the best thing BW can do is make a sequel Through diet and exercise they can show off their game making muscles to show that they knew what they doing all along when they killed our Shepards and in doing so ripped off our comfortable trousers that our Shepards became to us. No Hawkes or other named PC's just a man or woman that players were instantly familier with and could leap into a world of space adventure at the drop of a hat.

Except now it's all CoD based shooter action apparently while puzzle aspects have been rated as too difficult for gamers who are actively paying attention to the game on acount that it is telling a story. This may be good for the gamers with disabilities that make puzzle based action to difficult but is'nt that what 'Action' and 'Story' Mode' is for?

Let's be honest A Mass Effect prequel sounds alot like the Star Trek spinoff Enterprise that took the action back in time to before Kirk's baby room was just where boxes got stacked as the parent moved into the house they would later raise a family in. It only really got good when Manny Coto got brought onboard and carried fresh idea's and a nerds understanding of the lore behind the series as well as imagination to invent stories as to how that lore tied into the prequel characters while demonsrtating the writing ability to pull off these feats and put it up on screen. While actually making these characters sound like people instead of cardboard cutouts. ME may have good writers but after the ending it's also obvious they have ones who mistake the word ambiguous with another term I'll just refer to as the big O. The talent's there to write the story. The development experience present to build a Mass Effect style vehicle to engage players beyond the scope of what other shooter development houses offer. Just stop every so often and if needs be pull someones head out of the crack of involved scenario creation and ask yourselves, if we were gamers would we want this experience in our lives?

The only bar BW have set themselves is their own and perhaps in hindsight setting it pretty damn low with how the trilogy ended was an early days gift. But it still remains to be seen if BW have the ability and confidence to continue the ME trilogy through into a sequel.

Because if BW make a prequel I hope they managed to snag the ME equivilant of Manny Coto and bring him into their ranks!

Oh, and if you want to know how Enterprise finished it's last episode here''s a little reflective piece that sums up the jarring difference in writing quality while also demonstrating a good rule of thumb for management. If you have great writers.......... use them

Modifié par Redbelle, 25 janvier 2014 - 08:07 .


#70
Nitrocuban

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No, please, God no!

#71
Karlone123

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Redbelle wrote...

Whatever BW do they could do worse than to watch the Zero Punctuation reviews of the whole ME trilogy and understand that compared to it's humble yet enthusiastically overeaching first entry into the franchise the third and final installment was basically reduced to a cover shooter which was fun for a few missions but quickly resulted in lengthy yawns as you hide behind conveniently placed waist high bullet proof obstructions and pop out everytime an enemy shows it's ugly face.

Say what you like about ME1 and 2 at least it offered a bit of variety between the shooty sections and doing so allowed you to exercise a few brain cells that weren't connected to your finger that controlled the 'fire button'.

The CoD comparison has been done to death but in Priority Earth this comparison rear's it's head and flout's its six pack while forgetting that for two years it's eaten nothing but fat burgers. The muscle might be there but no effort has been put into putting it on display to woo audiences with.

And for my money this logic says that the best thing BW can do is make a sequel Through diet and exercise they can show off their game making muscles to show that they knew what they doing all along when they killed our Shepards and in doing so ripped off our comfortable trousers that our Shepards became to us. No Hawkes or other named PC's just a man or woman that players were instantly familier with and could leap into a world of space adventure at the drop of a hat.

Except now it's all CoD based shooter action apparently while puzzle aspects have been rated as too difficult for gamers who are actively paying attention to the game on acount that it is telling a story. This may be good for the gamers with disabilities that make puzzle based action to difficult but is'nt that what 'Action' and 'Story' Mode' is for?

Let's be honest A Mass Effect prequel sounds alot like the Star Trek spinoff Enterprise that took the action back in time to before Kirk's baby room was just where boxes got stacked as the parent moved into the house they would later raise a family in. It only really got good when Manny Coto got brought onboard and carried fresh idea's and a nerds understanding of the lore behind the series as well as imagination to invent stories as to how that lore tied into the prequel characters while demonsrtating the writing ability to pull off these feats and put it up on screen. While actually making these characters sound like people instead of cardboard cutouts. ME may have good writers but after the ending it's also obvious they have ones who mistake the word ambiguous with another term I'll just refer to as the big O. The talent's there to write the story. The development experience present to build a Mass Effect style vehicle to engage players beyond the scope of what other shooter development houses offer. Just stop every so often and if needs be pull someones head out of the crack of involved scenario creation and ask yourselves, if we were gamers would we want this experience in our lives?

The only bar BW have set themselves is their own and perhaps in hindsight setting it pretty damn low with how the trilogy ended was an early days gift. But it still remains to be seen if BW have the ability and confidence to continue the ME trilogy through into a sequel.

Because if BW make a prequel I hope they managed to snag the ME equivilant of Manny Coto and bring him into their ranks!

Oh, and if you want to know how Enterprise finished it's last episode here''s a little reflective piece that sums up the jarring difference in writing quality while also demonstrating a good rule of thumb for management. If you have great writers.......... use them


ME3 did feel repetitive with its fetch quests and combat. It almost feels like Bioware forgot about the good points ME1 and ME2 such as the interactive dialogue which they toned down and combat being expanded but didn't feel that fresh.