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[Magdalena11]

MisterJB wrote...

Magdalena11 wrote...

It seems like giving them their own homeland should help. I think it's that the "homeland" is actually all Thedas. Displacing and relocating a native cultural group, disenfranchising its population and tossing a rather old and smelly bone to smooth over centuries of injustice always makes everything better, doesn't it?

Are you suggesting giving all of Thedas to the elves?

Not really.  I'm putting myself in a Dalish mindset so I can go back and finish that Dalish archer I've been avoiding.  She is very pro-Dalish and resentful of the wardens for separating her from her clan forever.  The fact that it was a shem that found her and saved her life makes her resent them more because now she's indebted to one.

A Dalish elf might feel that the Dalish don't need to hide or excuse anything.  After their hardwon land in the Dales was taken away and they were forced to be nomadic to survive, their national borders could be described as the limits of their camp.  Their homeland could be anywhere in Thedas.

[LobselVith8]

Zazzerka wrote...

How come they can call me 'shemlen', but I can't call them 'knife ears'?

Imagine if we had a sociological conundrum like that in real life!

Shemlen means "quick children", and was used by the ancient elves to describe humans due to the difference in their lifespans (according to elven lore). The Dalish use it as a reference to humans as a result; you're thinking of the term "shem", which is used as a derogatory term against humans.

[Sir JK]

I would like to see an "Image boost" of the Dalish in the sense that I'd like to see more sides of them. Both good and bad sides. Thus far we've primarily seen them in the role of victims of various kinds. Naturally since it's a big theme going on for the elves. Even Zathrian and Merril, the two elves that we've seen that are as far away from that theme as any elf is still safely in the victim field.

I'm not saying I don't want to see that side of the elves again either. I just want to see more of them. As lorekeepers (we've seen a little of this previously). To sit and listen to their ancient songs and stories, talk to keepers about lost magic and explore ancient ruins with a Dalish providing suggestions to what it might be. As trackers, travellers and hunters, travelling the wilds with a people that by neccessity needs to know everything about it. To understand how the Dalish way of life meshes with their surroundings and the massive culture that they ought to have picked up by travelling all over the world.
I want to see their deeprooted racism. Not just the attempts at revenge that we see in both previous games (Zathrian, hunters and Danyla's daughter) but also see the elves at their worst. Judgemental and dismissive towards city elves that do not embrace their lifestyle. Refusing to deal with humans. Perhaps even Dalish bandits and brigands that uses this as their excuse.

In other words. I want to see more of the Dalish.

[CybAnt1]

Well, when you first meet Velanna in DA:A, she's busy killing humans left and right.

Of course, since she's fated to be a (potential) companion, you realize she's less the 'extremist' you originally thought.

Anyway, I suspect that the elves recovering some of their lost magical arts and other knowledge could have benefits not just for themselves but for Thedas. Of course, the series frequently has "The Gray" (as they say) and your experiences with Merrill suggest that elves in the past made pacts with demons, and that may not have worked out well, too. Possibly there are "lost" aspects to elven culture that should stay lost.

[Hrungr]

If the synopsis from the Masked Empire is anything to go by, it should be interesting to see what the situation with the elves will be going into DAI. Can be break the Orleasian Empire with the aid of the Elves...?

Empress Celene of Orlais rose to the throne of the most powerful nation in Thedas through wisdom, wit, and ruthless manipulation. Now, the empire she has guided into an age of enlightenment is threatened from within by imminent war between the templars and the mages, even as rebellion stirs among the downtrodden elves. To save Orlais, Celene must keep her hold on the throne by any means necessary.

Fighting with the legendary skill of the Orlesian Chevaliers, Grand Duke Gaspard has won countless battles for the empire and the empress. But has he fought in vain? As the Circle fails and chaos looms, Gaspard begins to doubt that Celene’s diplomatic approach to the mage problem or the elven uprisings will keep the empire safe. Perhaps it is time for a new leader, one who lives by the tenets of the Chevalier’s Code, to make Orlais strong again.

Briala has been Celene’s handmaid since the two of them were children, subtly using her position to help improve the lives of elves across Orlais. She is Celene’s confidante, spymaster, and lover, but when politics force the empress to choose between the rights of Briala’s people and the Orlesian throne, Briala must in turn decide where her true loyalties lie.

Alliances are forged and promises broken as Celene and Gaspard battle for the throne of Orlais. But in the end, the elves who hide in the forests or starve in the alienages may decide the fate of the masked empire.

[LobselVith8]

dragonflight288 wrote...

Well, the elves in Orlais have started a rebellion, so there may be progress on that front. 

I hope liberating the Dales from Orlesian rule is an option; I would like my Dalish Inquisitor to help the Elvhen reclaim their kingdom.

As for improving their image, it's doubtful that Andrastians who view elves as less than people, and disregard the Dalish as heathens for believing in the Creators, would going their view of the Elvhen in the long run. I'm more interested in helping and empowering the People than appeasing Andrastian humans who aren't going to change their cultural views; even the Dalish helping stop the Fifth Blight didn't change anything in the long run.

Given the disdain some Andrastian elves have for the Dalish (and vice versa), I'm curious how an elven rebellion in the currently Orlesian controlled Dales would work out. The Dalish never surrendered their cultural or religious beliefs, while the Andrastian elves are shaped by Chantry religious teachings. I wonder how it would play out.

[Spectre slayer]

CybAnt1 wrote...

Well, it seems that the elves have lost some aspects of their own culture, probably due to calamities they've suffered. No one seems to remember how the eluvians work, just as one example. Those trying to reconstruct what they've lost, like Merrill, are viewed with suspicion.

If the rediscovery of Arlathan is a part of DAI - that could be the beginning of a turnaround.

About that last part, i'm wondering why more people aren't talking about this concept art and the captions that followed.



“And thus was mighty Arlathan cast down, its people swallowed by darkness—never to rise again… Here lies the abyss, the well of all souls. From these emerald waters doth life begin anew.”

It was taken off of the dragon age Twitter and their facebook page and posted on a few site's like gamerant and game informer.

http://gamerant.com/...es-arbor-wilds/

http://www.gameinfor...nquisition.aspx

http://storify.com/B...ion-concept-art

Anyway the devs have said they will be treated like scum and this might even get worse before it gets better depending on what happens in the masked empire though that concept makes me think we'll get to learn more about Arthlan, the Eluvian, the cave from the dalish orgin, and their connection to both dragon's( Tamlen mentioned something interesting depending on what you asked him) and Flemeth.

[CybAnt1]

There was a thread on it (believe me people noticed) , it's off page 1. 

Modifié par CybAnt1, 18 janvier 2014 - 06:38 .

[Peer of the Empire]

Hahahaha, mocked by Zevran and Fenris

[Spectre slayer]

I know but that's not exactly what I meant, I'm surprised it doesn't get mentioned more and that I didn't see it on this thread and the one your talking about got pushed back quite a bit since it's on page like 6 or 7 now.

http://social.biowar.../index/17758256

[Hellion Rex]

Spectre slayer wrote...

Anyway the devs have said they will be treated like scum and this might even get worse before it gets better depending on what happens in the masked empire though that concept makes me think we'll get to learn more about Arthlan, the Eluvian, the cave from the dalish orgin, and their connection to both dragon's( Tamlen mentioned something interesting depending on what you asked him) and Flemeth.

I have not heard that before, and I highly doubt the devs have ever said the Dalish are going to be "treated like scum".

[Hellion Rex]

MasterScribe wrote...

Don't worry about elvhen. They will destroy the shemlen. 

In your dreams...

[cjones91]

eluvianix wrote...

MasterScribe wrote...

Don't worry about elvhen. They will destroy the shemlen. 

In your dreams...

Even if that were to happen the elves would be wiped out in the counter attack.Humans in Theadas already treat elves like **** and trying to wipe them out would be the next step should the elves get uppity.

[Spectre slayer]

eluvianix wrote...

Spectre slayer wrote...

Anyway the devs have said they will be treated like scum and this might even get worse before it gets better depending on what happens in the masked empire though that concept makes me think we'll get to learn more about Arthlan, the Eluvian, the cave from the dalish orgin, and their connection to both dragon's( Tamlen mentioned something interesting depending on what you asked him) and Flemeth.

I have not heard that before, and I highly doubt the devs have ever said the Dalish are going to be "treated like scum".

Really?

I've read it and listend to it on a few places like the podcast's ( the one on races and couple of more mention quite a bit)and this article where Jonathan Perry says exactly what I said and it was stated on some other site's to but this is the only one I have atm or at the very least I have to go through my link's.

Are elves still the downtrodden race in Dragon Age: Inquisition?
Absolutely, in the Dragon Age world elves are still treated as slaves or scum. What will be really interesting in Dragon Age: Inquisition is to see how characters react to a Qunari Inquisitor because they’re in a similar position as the elves were in Dragon Age: Origins. People are pretty sceptical of a putting a Qunari in a position of powe.

http://www.gamerzine...-talking.html/2

There's a very iinteresting conversation in DAO on this matter that you can have with Leliana if you are Dalish, it also depends on culture and where you are and did you forget the alienenge and everything that happened there and stuff that was mentioned.

There's numerous other times where they've said that in some places they will be treated as scum, slaves, and just badly in general.

I remember Laidlaw saying an elven inquisitor face some discrimination and that if you went there you might not be treated kindly but if you went to a place with elves then they're be more friendly and helpful, also he said that there's some occasions where we are forced to go someplace as a elven or Qunari one that we'll feel uncomfortable there and the people will make it known that you aren't welcomed there but you can't just leave since you have to be there.

Modifié par Spectre slayer, 18 janvier 2014 - 08:13 .

[Cainhurst Crow]

Seeing them at their worst was when the darkspawn where ravaging the land and the dalish were like "not our problem", and decided to just sit back with some popcorn and watch the pretty little human villages burn.

Nothing really compares to that, even in terms of what the other games have shown us. So really I find most of their actions less low points as much as I do standard behavior for a people who value genetic/racially based qualifications, propagate stories of victimization without addressing their own negative parts in history, and who value isolationism over cooperation with "tradition" used as a cloak to mask their xenophobia of all things non-dalish.

Basically the dalish are these guys from the hobbit.



Without the bonus of having this guy in their group,

Modifié par Darth Brotarian, 18 janvier 2014 - 07:19 .

[Gervaise]

I still think that the relationship between Shartan and Andraste needs further investigation. According to the unofficial (suppressed) history, the battle of the Valarian Fields might well have been lost without Shartan switching sides with his elven archers, simultaneously boosting the barbarian ranks and depleting the Tevinter army. In Origins his spirit explains this as "the enemy of my enemy is my friend", yet Maferath still stood by his agreement with Shartan even though he had betrayed Andraste and Shartan had died defending her. If Shartan believed in the old faith of the elves, how did he and Andraste reconcile this? Was the lady of faith able to make exceptions out of policitcal need? Yet if Shartan believed in Andraste and the Maker, why did the Dalish not adopt this as their faith? And what about the sword that Andraste gave to Shartan that was able to dominate the mind of his opponent, suggesting it had links with the blood magic forbidden by the Chantry? Of course Andraste might well have discovered it when she visited Sundermount and realised it was an old elven artefact but if such magic was against the will of the Maker, why did she keep it and then give it to one of her allies?

I really want their to be more exploration of old elven sites and further revelations about their past. The Dalish origin was the first Warden I played and definitely left me with far more questions than any other did at the end of the game.

[cjones91]

Darth Brotarian wrote...

Seeing them at their worst was when the darkspawn where ravaging the land and the dalish were like "not our problem", and decided to just sit back with some popcorn and watch the pretty little human villages burn.

Nothing really compares to that, even in terms of what the other games have shown us. So really I find most of their actions less low points as much as I do standard behavior for a people who value genetic/racially based qualifications, propagate stories of victimization without addressing their own negative parts in history, and who value isolationism over cooperation with "tradition" used as a cloak to mask their xenophobia of all things non-dalish.

Basically the dalish are these guys from the hobbit.



Without the bonus of having this guy in their group,

Elves were'nt the only ones who left a village to their fate against the darkspawn,Loghain and the Fereldan armies did the same thing to Lothering and countless other villages and even Duncan had planned on leaving Fereldan altogether in order to regroup with the Grey Wardens in Orlais.

Modifié par cjones91, 18 janvier 2014 - 07:36 .

[dragondreamer]

Once upon a time, the Dalish did nothing during a Blight. Now they have a treaty with the Grey Wardens saying they'll lend aid during a Blight. Bringing out a mistake they made hundreds of years ago to justify all the wrongs ever done to them and *continue* to be done to them gets old.

[Peer of the Empire]

Darth Brotarian wrote...

Seeing them at their worst was when the darkspawn where ravaging the land and the dalish were like "not our problem", and decided to just sit back with some popcorn and watch the pretty little human villages burn.

Nothing really compares to that, even in terms of what the other games have shown us. So really I find most of their actions less low points as much as I do standard behavior for a people who value genetic/racially based qualifications, propagate stories of victimization without addressing their own negative parts in history, and who value isolationism over cooperation with "tradition" used as a cloak to mask their xenophobia of all things non-dalish.

Anti-Semitism!!!11

[Cainhurst Crow]

cjones91 wrote...

Darth Brotarian wrote...

Seeing them at their worst was when the darkspawn where ravaging the land and the dalish were like "not our problem", and decided to just sit back with some popcorn and watch the pretty little human villages burn.

Nothing really compares to that, even in terms of what the other games have shown us. So really I find most of their actions less low points as much as I do standard behavior for a people who value genetic/racially based qualifications, propagate stories of victimization without addressing their own negative parts in history, and who value isolationism over cooperation with "tradition" used as a cloak to mask their xenophobia of all things non-dalish.

Basically the dalish are these guys from the hobbit.



Without the bonus of having this guy in their group,

Elves were'nt the only ones who left a village to their fate against the darkspawn,Loghain and the Fereldan armies did the same thing to Lothering and countless other villages and even Duncan had planned on leaving Fereldan altogether in order to regroup with the Grey Wardens in Orlais.

Second blight, from the wiki.

Battle of Cumberland

Learning about the Blight, Orlesian emperor Drakon enlisted the help of the mages and permitted them to use their full power against the darkspawn. They proved to be essential allies in battle, and Orlesian army under Drakon's brilliant command won a series of significant victories against the horde including the hard-fought Battle of Cumberland in 1:16.

Throughout the entire time, the elves of the Dales remained neutral and unhelpful. Tensions between humans and elves became especially high when the Orlesian city of Montsimmard was nearly destroyed by the darkspawn in 1:25 while the elven army watched nearby.

In 1:31 the darkspawn reached Minrathous, capital of Tevinter. Although they failed to sack the city, the Imperium was greatly weakened.[5]

And it wasn't "A village", they sat back and watched the entire blight play out while doing nothing. And additionally, Montsimmard is the headquarters of the Orlesian Grey Wardens and a second Circle of Magi.

So yeah, I would say this was their lowest of the low points and nothign they do after this can match the levels of horridness of what they managed here.

Modifié par Darth Brotarian, 18 janvier 2014 - 07:53 .

[cjones91]

dragondreamer wrote...

Once upon a time, the Dalish did nothing during a Blight. Now they have a treaty with the Grey Wardens saying they'll lend aid during a Blight. Bringing out a mistake they made hundreds of years ago to justify all the wrongs ever done to them and *continue* to be done to them gets old.

People will always use past events to justify opression,it's the same thing with mages.

The elves also aided Andraste in fighting the Tevinter Imperium which is ommited by the Chantry so that adds fuel to the fire.