1258 réponses à ce sujet

[Giant ambush beetle]

dragonflight288 wrote...

The Woldan wrote...

Master Warder Z wrote...

Really? Having no personal feelings construed from sensory information gathered from "reality" if that was true oh i would love to disscect that brain to find out why those Neurons aren't firing up those Synapses properly.

What I meant is when perceiving reality you're running reality through a bunch of filters, your senses, the brain takes the (incomplete) information from your senses and draws a picture of it. When you finally ''perceive reality'' its not reality anymore, not at all, its a construct of your senses and the interpretation of your mind. 
Thus even though reality definitely exists its imperceivable. 

Man, this beer is strong!  

...you sound exactly like Plato in Philosophy. 

The table isn't real, it's just an imitation. The original idea of the table is the most real table there is. The physical thing is nothing more than a copy of the original, which was the idea.

Not sure how much I buy that, but it does have a following. 

Yep, in the end we all stumble around in the dark, a world made up of our own lies and illusions never truly knowing the truth even though we're surrounded by it. A depressing thought.

Modifié par The Woldan , 22 janvier 2014 - 01:37 .

[Pasquale1234]

dragonflight288 wrote...

...you sound exactly like Plato in Philosophy. 

The table isn't real, it's just an imitation. The original idea of the table is the most real table there is. The physical thing is nothing more than a copy of the original, which was the idea.

Not sure how much I buy that, but it does have a following. 

Modern quantum physicists make similar claims.

And, really, knowing that the table - which we perceive as a solid object - is actually mostly empty space tells us a lot about the nature of perception and reality.

[Giant ambush beetle]

Pasquale1234 wrote...

And, really, knowing that the table - which we perceive as a solid object - is actually mostly empty space tells us a lot about the nature of perception and reality.

Thank god(s?) for missing electrons!  

Modifié par The Woldan , 22 janvier 2014 - 02:03 .

[Pasquale1234]

The Woldan wrote...
Thank god(s?) for missing electrons!  

And missing brain cells. 

[Fast Jimmy]

I like bananas because they have no bones.

[Vexille]

I hope theres an option to finish off the Dalish in DAI... Kinda like how we got to finish off the geth or quarians in ME3.

So tired of these whiney racists

[cjones91]

Vexille wrote...

I hope theres an option to finish off the Dalish in DAI... Kinda like how we got to finish off the geth or quarians in ME3.

So tired of these whiney racists

The Dalish aren't the only ones who are racist you know.

[LobselVith8]

Vexille wrote...

I hope theres an option to finish off the Dalish in DAI... Kinda like how we got to finish off the geth or quarians in ME3.

So tired of these whiney racists

I've never felt compelled to murder all the Dalish. I never had a problem with the Elvhen refusing to bend knee to the Chantry, or wanting more from life than living in servitude to humans who see elves as less than people.

[TEWR]

Vexille wrote...

I hope theres an option to finish off the Dalish in DAI... Kinda like how we got to finish off the geth or quarians in ME3.

So tired of these whiney racists

Fascinating.

*is tired of racism, so to answer that responds with racism*

[The Elder King]

I really doubt we'll get the chance to eliminate completely any major organizations/groups in DAI. Mages (rebellion), templars and dalish included.

Modifié par hhh89, 22 janvier 2014 - 08:41 .

[In Exile]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...
Fascinating.

*is tired of racism, so to answer that responds with racism*

That's very unfair. It's really more like:

*is tired of racism, so will engage in racially based genocide*

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

In Exile wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...
Fascinating.

*is tired of racism, so to answer that responds with racism*

That's very unfair. It's really more like:

*is tired of racism, so will engage in racially based genocide*

Actually it is more "Sick of the same "We're downtrodden and proud and such! We're awesome and you X's are teh worstest!" So I'm going to kill them because this is fiction and I don't need to take any of this seriously."

I hate fictional people "Y" does not mean "I hate whichever group you might have projected on to them."

[Fast Jimmy]

LobselVith8 wrote...

Vexille wrote...

I hope theres an option to finish off the Dalish in DAI... Kinda like how we got to finish off the geth or quarians in ME3.

So tired of these whiney racists

I've never felt compelled to murder all the Dalish. I never had a problem with the Elvhen refusing to bend knee to the Chantry, or wanting more from life than living in servitude to humans who see elves as less than people.

The fact that so many people on here view the only options as being reclusive d!cks or becoming slaves under the boot of humans really demonstrates the problem with... well, so many people on here. 

It's called intelligence and foresight. The Dalish could use an ounce of it.

[EmperorSahlertz]

You are talking crazy Jimmy. The Dalish cannot do anything wrong. And if they did do something wrong, then it can't possibly be their fault, but it would obviously be the ones who conspired against them's fault. Which would be everybody else of course,

[dragonflight288]

 

It sounds like some people are deliberatly misinterpreting what Lobsel is saying about the elves, as a lot of what he says is a matter of historical fact from in-game lore and the novels. 

Lobsel isn't saying that the elves and the Dalish do no wrong, he's saying that he personally doesn't see them and their current situation as entirely their fault.

The people arguing with him, and I may be wrong, but this is how it's coming across, sounds like they're saying that anyone who is down on their luck, anyone who lost a war, and anyone who have had their own beliefs, should suck it up and accept all the blame for their problems and might as well give up their beliefs and cultures and try to fit in with a society that hates them already, and don't want them to be anything more than second class citizens and servants. 

[EmperorSahlertz]

Are you saying that the Dalish have been "down on their luck" for the past 700 years? If the Dalish doesn't like their situation then they should do something about it. However, it seems that they revel in their own misery, since it allows them to victimize themselves even further, blaming everyone but themselves for their misery.
Yes, the Dalish should accept blame for their own situation, since they are the ones who brought themselves into it, and they are the ones who perpetuate it.

Modifié par EmperorSahlertz, 22 janvier 2014 - 02:32 .

[dragonflight288]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Are you saying that the Dalish have been "down on their luck" for the past 700 years? If the Dalish doesn't like their situation then they should do something about it.

You aren't hearing aguments from me about this, but let me ask you this....what should the Dalish do? Human societies hate elves as a matter of course. Many humans don't even think elves qualify as people (Vaughnn). Elves leave the alienages to build a business, racist humans burn down their home and business and force them back into the alinage (City Elf Codex.)

The most any elf can be in human societies are servants, and are generally denied land or decent jobs. I'm sure that there are many humans who like the elves and want to help them, like Aveline in Kirkwall and how she has no problem hiring elvees to be in the City guard, but for the most part these humans appear to be largely outnumbered by anit-elf humans. This is made pretty clear in-game.

However, it seems that they revel in their own misery, since it allows them to victimize themselves even further, blaming everyone but themselves for their misery.
Yes, the Dalish should accept blame for their own situation, since they are the ones who brought themselves into it, and they are the ones who perpetuate it.

Again, you won't hear any arguments from me. One of the biggest problems I have with the Dalish is their constant "I'm a victim" mentality and how they don't take responsibility for when things actually are their fault....based on what I've seen from two clans that is. 

I'm just saying that a very large part of the Dalish problems cannot be put squarely on Dalish shoulders, and that some of the people arguing with Lobsel seem to be saying that the Dalish should just become City Elves and live in alienages. Tha may not be what they're actually saying, but that is how it's coming across. 

[dragonflight288]

MasterScribe wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Are you saying that the Dalish have been "down on their luck" for the past 700 years? If the Dalish doesn't like their situation then they should do something about it. However, it seems that they revel in their own misery, since it allows them to victimize themselves even further, blaming everyone but themselves for their misery.
Yes, the Dalish should accept blame for their own situation, since they are the ones who brought themselves into it, and they are the ones who perpetuate it.

Well, if the dominant human society is unwilling to cooperate with the Dalish, then....

such as letting elves start businesses without burning them down. (City Elf codex)

[cjones91]

I don't think they asked to have their entire culture and home be destroyed not once but twice.

[LobselVith8]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

I've never felt compelled to murder all the Dalish. I never had a problem with the Elvhen refusing to bend knee to the Chantry, or wanting more from life than living in servitude to humans who see elves as less than people.

The fact that so many people on here view the only options as being reclusive d!cks or becoming slaves under the boot of humans really demonstrates the problem with... well, so many people on here.

Considering that the entirety of the existence of the elves in the Alienages has shown how elves are treated in human society, I'm not seeing the other option. An elven Warden stopping the Blight changed nothing. Even the prosperity of the Elven Warden as Bann in Denerim lead to riots by humans, and the tag was that the more things change, the more they stay the same. Unless a royal boon from the Hero of Ferelden actively plays a role, the Denerim Alienage would be facing the same plight as the rest of the Alienages in Thedas.

Fast Jimmy wrote...

It's called intelligence and foresight. The Dalish could use an ounce of it. 

The Dalish use intelligence and foresight all the time by staying away from people who want to either convert or kill them.

[EmperorSahlertz]

There are huge swathes of Thedas that are unexplored, to the south, to the west and to the north. If the Dalish REALLY wanted to create a new homeland for all Elves, then they could just straight up leave. The only thing holding them back is their perpetual victimhood, and some misguided notion that they might somehow salavage a culture that is lost.
The Dalish has lots of options open to them, all which would probably improve their quality of life. However, they choose a life of criminality, which they are for as long as they poach, forage, and worship their heathen gods in Chantry lands.

[LobselVith8]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

You are talking crazy Jimmy. The Dalish cannot do anything wrong. And if they did do something wrong, then it can't possibly be their fault, but it would obviously be the ones who conspired against them's fault. Which would be everybody else of course,

I don't recall anyone excusing the Sabrae clan for attempting to murder Hawke and his moiety crew in cold blood, or Marethari letting Audacity free, or Zathrian letting his revenge inflict harm on his clan and the descendants of the humans who had murdered his son and raped his daughter - as they aren't guilty for the actions of their progenitors. I don't think anyone who thinks the elves have gotten a bad hand in life thinks that elves should be excused for any malevolent or harmful actions they commit; it's simply that some of us think that Dalish society shouldn't be vilified for it's culture of free mages and following a religion that is prohibited by Chantry law.

[The Elder King]

cjones91 wrote...

I don't think they asked to have their entire culture and home be destroyed not once but twice.

 I doubt that the dalish would have stopped to defeating Orlais if they were stonger that the latter. I think they'd have done something similar of what the Chantry did.
Of course, the perspective of those events change based on how you interpret the events that lead to the war between Orlais and the Dales. Since I believe that both countries share the blame for the start of the war, while I'm absolutely against what Chantry did after the victory, I don't think the elves were much better, and that in their victory they'd have acted much different from the Chantry.
I want to clarify that this doesn't justify what the Chantry did after the war. I loathe the Alienages and the elven treatment in Andrastian society, and I welcome the idea of the elves having their own country again. But both sides needed to change their attitude, otherwise elves and human will always be in conflict. And the elves would likely be on the loser side.

Modifié par hhh89, 22 janvier 2014 - 05:05 .

[dragonflight288]

I doubt that the Dalish would do to Orlais what Orlais did to the Dales because of one very important part of Dalish society.

They are total isolationists. They believe that the longer they stay apart from humans, the closer they can get to their lost 'immortality.' They have no need for human servants.

And it was the Chantry that declared all elves had to live in alienages after the war was over, so I also don't think the Dalish would declare, or their religion would declare that all humans should live in alienages.