1258 réponses à ce sujet

[EmperorSahlertz]

People are most certainly not inherently selfish. Self-entitled persons are inherently selfish, because they believe themselves superior, which in the case of humans and Dalish are often the case, both ways.

[DPSSOC]

Well that's a broader philosophical discussion, but I'll just say, in my experience, people put their interests first and when asked to do something for someone else the first question they ask is, "What's in it for me."

[TheKomandorShepard]

DPSSOC wrote...

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

DPSSOC wrote...
But they do force people to leave if they don't conform.  You can't say the Dalish don't forcibly convert people if they refuse to tolerate anyone who doesn't.  If the decision is conform or leave that's still forcible conversion, the Dalish are just a lot more passive aggressive about it. 

Besides which it's not just the case with people who voluntarily join the Dalish.  Merril and Velanna weren't allowed to leave they were forced to leave.  The Dalish are essentially an overbearing parent saying, "If you don't follow my rules and live by my beliefs you can't live in this house."

One thing merril wasn't forced to leave she left on her own if i renember correctly even her keeper said that she don't have to leave trying convinve her to say.

Merril's views didn't fall in line with the Keeper's, she was given the option of towing the line or leaving.  She was forced to leave.

Yep but wasn't forced to leave just her clan was unplesant toward her and to be honest i doubt that any society outside tevinter turns a blind eye on dealing with demons in most societes of thedas she would be choped for that.

[DPSSOC]

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

DPSSOC wrote...

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

DPSSOC wrote...
But they do force people to leave if they don't conform.  You can't say the Dalish don't forcibly convert people if they refuse to tolerate anyone who doesn't.  If the decision is conform or leave that's still forcible conversion, the Dalish are just a lot more passive aggressive about it. 

Besides which it's not just the case with people who voluntarily join the Dalish.  Merril and Velanna weren't allowed to leave they were forced to leave.  The Dalish are essentially an overbearing parent saying, "If you don't follow my rules and live by my beliefs you can't live in this house."

One thing merril wasn't forced to leave she left on her own if i renember correctly even her keeper said that she don't have to leave trying convinve her to say.

Merril's views didn't fall in line with the Keeper's, she was given the option of towing the line or leaving.  She was forced to leave.

Yep but wasn't forced to leave just her clan was unplesant toward her and to be honest i doubt that any society outside tevinter turns a blind eye on dealing with demons in most societes of thedas she would be choped for that.

Not really the point.  Merrill was told to abandon her views or leave, simple as that.  It was passive aggressive but it was still her being forced out.

[TheKomandorShepard]

DPSSOC wrote...



Not really the point.  Merrill was told to abandon her views or leave, simple as that.  It was passive aggressive but it was still her being forced out.

Was it in case or just she left because others in their society didn't liked what she was doing something like you can stay but don't expect we will like what you are doing (what can be unplesant for such person).At least thats what i saw in that sitation but i can be wrong.  

[Sir JK]

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

Was it in case or just she left because others in their society didn't liked what she was doing something like you can stay but don't expect we will like what you are doing (what can be unplesant for such person).At least thats what i saw in that sitation but i can be wrong.  

I distinctly got the impression that she was outright told by Marethari to give up the Eluvian or give up the clan. She chose the latter. The hostily from the tribe was a product of this decision, not the reason for it.

Modifié par Sir JK, 27 janvier 2014 - 03:10 .

[Fast Jimmy]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

People are most certainly not inherently selfish. Self-entitled persons are inherently selfish, because they believe themselves superior, which in the case of humans and Dalish are often the case, both ways.

poppycock. When you wake up in the morning, your first thoughts aren't with strangers and how they might have slept, or if they are hungry. They are with yourself, how tired you are, how much your belly aches. 

The same is true of any other activity - altruism is simply an action to satisfy personal feelings and needs. People do it because it makes them feel better, or inaction makes them feel bad through some form of empathy and guilt. Or maybe they do it because they realize, consciously or subconsciously, that it helps them out as well. After all, the implicit reason why many people don't break into their neighbor's houses is that they wouldn't want someone to break into their's. By holding up one's part of the larger social contract, it benefits you by A) suffering none of the legal or social stigmas for breaking it and the feeling of security and validation this implied consent with other members of civilization provides. 

All of which are reasons dealing primarily with the self. Making yourself feel good or, conversely, avoiding harsh negative consequences, are the prime drivers in 99% of all human actions. That makes them, inherently, selfish. 

Modifié par Fast Jimmy, 27 janvier 2014 - 12:40 .

[EmperorSahlertz]

What you just said is factually wrong. A selfish person would be inclined to act the way you say, but millions of people actually act selflessly for no personal gain of their own. If you, for whatever f'ed up reason, claim that our biological engineering towards self-maintenance, is somehow a show of selfishness, then you have a cynical view of humanity, which of course still doesn't make you right.

And no..... The main reason people do not break into eachothers' houses is NOT because they fear reprisal, but becasue they actually don't want to.
We as humans are pack animals, so what is good for the pack is ultimately good for you. To a certain degree, because as a part of a pack, it sometimes calls for a sacrifice on your part. I have witnessed homeless starving people giving up food to another, simply because their need were greater. I have seen people risk their lives to try and save a complete stranger. These things are NOT done consciously to satisfy some sort of vanity, but purely instinctually. NOT doing them, is done consciously to satisfy some sort of selfishness.

[dragonflight288]

We're getting off topic, although I agree with Emperor.