408 réponses à ce sujet

[Veruin]

EJ107 wrote...

JordanDH wrote...

One single counter example does not mean it's not prevalent.

Aveline is hardly the only female charcter in Dragon Age games who is not designed to be sexual. Cassandra? Leandra? Marethari? Branka? Wynne? Shale?

What you don't seem to understand is that, the few times it does happen, that seems to over ride all the non sexualized characters.  Let me quote the OP.

OperatingWookie wrote...
Let's look at some more female oppression

Modifié par Veruin, 18 janvier 2014 - 08:34 .

[deuce985]

I think it's purely based on the character. Some sexualization makes plenty of sense based on the personality of specific characters.

[AresKeith]

Angrywolves wrote...

So if you don't like some aspects of the way the characters are portrayed in the DA series it might be best for you to look for a series without romances or one with so-called vanilla romances where the female characters dress more conservatively.

Think about what you just wrote here

[javeart]

 I have to say I agree with almost everything I've read:-yes, female armour is more sexualized than male- yes, even so, I don't think DA is a case for concern- yes, it would be nice if the level of sexualization would depend on the character, so there would be more diversity, options, etc- yes, we also need to compensate the situation with a lot more of handsome men waking around half naked (actually I'm not sure someone have already said that, but definitely should  because I'm one of those who choose coolnes over realism every time 

Modifié par javeart, 18 janvier 2014 - 08:37 .

[JordanDH]

Bfler wrote...

St. Victorious wrote...
This might be a hard to grasp, but some woman choose to portray themselves sexually.

40 years ago a lot af women in the western world run around willingly in miniskirts, which hardly covered the butt. A lot of people here don't seem to know such and other trends.

Fashionwear ≠ battle garbs.

Mr.House wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

Wynne was made to be a sexual being?

CLEARY!

EJ107 wrote...

JordanDH wrote...

JordanDH wrote...

...women are almost always made to be...

One single counter example does not mean it's not prevalent.

Aveline is hardly the only female charcter in Dragon Age games who is not designed to be sexual. Leandra? Marethari? Branka? Wynne? Shale?

Yes, but these are just a few examples.  Dragon Age and Bioware more generally tend to be a little ahead of the curve on this stuff, but not perfect.  And do you notice that three of your examples are elderly?  And one of them is literally made of stone.  I'm not saying every woman in games is oversexualised, I'm just saying it happens a hell of a lot more than it does for men.

Modifié par JordanDH, 18 janvier 2014 - 08:37 .

[Gwydden]

I definitely think it's best for everyone if every companion has a battle armor and a casual outfit. The former can be as practical as they want and the latter as, well, "casual" as they like xD.

[General TSAR]

Why can't practical and sexualized armor live together in perfect harmony?

[dreamgazer]

What does age have to do with it?

http://kingdomofstyl...0184f970b-500wi

[Angrywolves]

AresKeith wrote...

Angrywolves wrote...

So if you don't like some aspects of the way the characters are portrayed in the DA series it might be best for you to look for a series without romances or one with so-called vanilla romances where the female characters dress more conservatively.

Think about what you just wrote here

I have and I stand by it.II you don't like it that's too bad.

We don't need another flame war in  the forums.

If anybody wants one they'll have to deal with the mods and the consequences.

[Chashan]

dreamgazer wrote...

I know, right?

<skip the manliest gear ever>

Thing is, compared to some of the colour-schemes Shepards can roll in ME2-3, that is downright modest. 

[dreamgazer]

deuce985 wrote...

I think it's purely based on the character. Some sexualization makes plenty of sense based on the personality of specific characters.

Ultimately, I wholeheartedly agree with this.

[AresKeith]

Angrywolves wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

Angrywolves wrote...

So if you don't like some aspects of the way the characters are portrayed in the DA series it might be best for you to look for a series without romances or one with so-called vanilla romances where the female characters dress more conservatively.

Think about what you just wrote here

I have and I stand by it.II you don't like it that's too bad.

We don't need another flame war in  the forums.

If anybody wants one they'll have to deal with the mods and the consequences.

You just implied that a character needs to be sexualized for them to be romanceable instead of dressing more "conservatively"

[dreamgazer]

Chashan wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

I know, right?

<skip the manliest gear ever>

Thing is, compared to some of the colour-schemes Shepards can roll in ME2-3, that is downright modest. 

I have no idea what you're talking about. 

[Bfler]

JordanDH wrote...

Bfler wrote...

St. Victorious wrote...
This might be a hard to grasp, but some woman choose to portray themselves sexually.

40 years ago a lot af women in the western world run around willingly in miniskirts, which hardly covered the butt. A lot of people here don't seem to know such and other trends.

Fashionwear ≠ battle garbs.

Not in a game, because the battles with fantasy creatures, magic etc.. are already unrealistic. Therefore there is no reason that the clothes have to be like in reality.

Modifié par Bfler, 18 janvier 2014 - 08:53 .

[Eternal Phoenix]

Jesus, people are moaning over breast plates on females? Jesus grant me...

Go and play Dragon's Dogma, The Witcher series, Neverwinter Nights, Diablo series, Final Fantasy games etc and then come back telling me that the females in Dragon Age games are oversexualized.

Sexualization works both ways:



It exists on male characters too so drop it.

Joan of Arc used to walk topless with the army when marching so if you want to be realistic and historically accurate then a lot of Dragon Age needs revision.

Modifié par Elton John is dead, 18 janvier 2014 - 08:54 .

[JordanDH]

dreamgazer wrote...

What does age have to do with it?

http://kingdomofstyl...0184f970b-500wi

I don't know if you know this, but that's a real person.  She's not a character in a video game.  The reason age is relevant is because if you remove older women, it's even more difficult to name non-sexualised women in video games.  Advanced age is given as a reason to not sexualise a woman, when we should really be asking "is there a reason this person should be so sexual?  Is sex and this person's sexiness really part of the story, or is it just fanservice?"  I'm not saying older women can't be sexy, but they are less often seen as such, and are less often portrayed as such.

And another thing, saying that the skimpiness suits the personalities so it's ok does not just solve everything because the personalities are created too.  It's basically saying "yeah, her outfit is a male sex fantasy, but it's ok because so is her personality".  And yeah, some women ARE like that, but not to the extent that occurs in video games.  Aveline is great.  But she is the exception, not the rule.  This isn't about Dragon Age or Bioware, this is about the industry in general.

[Shevy]

Never saw (over)sexualisation of female characters and their clothing in Dragon Age till now. Only Isabela comes to mind and there it fits with her character and how she wants to portray herself.

Such a thread could be advisable for many JRPG developers but the DA team? Nope.

[Angrywolves]

AresKeith wrote...

Angrywolves wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

Angrywolves wrote...

So if you don't like some aspects of the way the characters are portrayed in the DA series it might be best for you to look for a series without romances or one with so-called vanilla romances where the female characters dress more conservatively.

Think about what you just wrote here

I have and I stand by it.II you don't like it that's too bad.

We don't need another flame war in  the forums.

If anybody wants one they'll have to deal with the mods and the consequences.

You just implied that a character needs to be sexualized for them to be romanceable instead of dressing more "conservatively"

Not exactly.

You added the romancible and the sexualized parts of it.

What this may turn into is a " all romances are bad they're objectifying women and should be done away with"
thread like the infamous dating sim thread the mods had to close and we'll end up with another flamewar.

That's my concern.

Philosophical /poltical/moral/cultural objections to anything in the DA series while ok to express shouldn't be the cause of a division/acrimony/turmoil in the forums.

If you don't have an objection to that then that's too bad for you.<_<

[EmperorSahlertz]

spirosz wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Yep, barriers and shield are the reason ME characters can walk around in little to no armor, and still be combat effective.

Yes of course. 

Jack must love that warm space air.  

Considering that there is a grand total of ZERO missions in zero-gravity enviroments your point falls flat on its face.

[Sully13]

What ive been saying with my Conan argument.

ok quick question anyone here worn a Stab / bullet proof vest?
any females worn a male stab / Bullet proof vest?

[Vlk3]

Nefla wrote...

I'm a female gamer and BioWare's designs are not offensive to me in the LEAST. They run the gamut between certain skimpy mage robes with a slit all the way up to the hip to walking mailbox-like heavy armor where you can't tell the character's gender. You can choose what do dress your characters in. Also guess what? There are women out there that don't hate their bodies or their femininity and would choose to show cleavage, have right clothes, etc...in real life. There is already a wide choice of styles, so you dress your character how you want and don't try to force your Amish ideals on other people.

I wanted to write a whole post, but hey, this is exactly what I wanted to say, so thank you, Nefla, for saving my time.

My Inquisitor will certainly choose the most provoking clothes she can find, because she just likes to look good. And I very much hope BioWare will make that possible.

Also, I think that NPC's have every right to look beautiful and sexy.

That mage robe on the first page is not exactly a good example of "oversexualisation". I mean, what kind of woman would choose to wear something that ugly? She's covered from neck to her feet in something that looks more like a bag, I'm sure it's another reason why circle mages feel opressed, they all look like priests, that is terrible!

[JordanDH]

Bfler wrote...

JordanDH wrote...

Bfler wrote...

St. Victorious wrote...
This might be a hard to grasp, but some woman choose to portray themselves sexually.

40 years ago a lot af women in the western world run around willingly in miniskirts, which hardly covered the butt. A lot of people here don't seem to know such and other trends.

Fashionwear ≠ battle garbs.

Not in a game, because the battles with fantasy creatures, magic etc.. are already unrealistic. Therefore there is no reason that the clothes have to be like in reality.

This would be a better point if it were applied equally.  Again, this isn't against sexualisation, this isn't pro realism at all times, it's just about treating people like equals.

Elton John is dead wrote...

Jesus, people are moaning over breast plates on females? Jesus grant me...

Go and play Dragon's Dogma, The Witcher series, Neverwinter Nights, Diablo series, Final Fantasy games etc and then come back telling me that the females in Dragon Age games are oversexualized.

Sexualization works both ways:



It exists on male characters too so drop it.

Joan of Arc used to walk topless with the army when marching so if you want to be realistic and historically accurate then a lot of Dragon Age needs revision.

Even in your example, there is a lot more showing on the woman, and there is a lot more padding on the man.  And no one is saying that Dragon Age is the worst case.  You can play all of those other games and still think women in Dragon Age are oversexualised, there are just different degrees of oversexualisation.  We shouldn't be saying "we are happy with how bad we are because everyone else is worse," we should be saying "let's be the best that we can be, regardless of how much better we already are than the rest."

[Thrillian]

Angrywolves wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

Angrywolves wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

Angrywolves wrote...

So if you don't like some aspects of the way the characters are portrayed in the DA series it might be best for you to look for a series without romances or one with so-called vanilla romances where the female characters dress more conservatively.

Think about what you just wrote here

I have and I stand by it.II you don't like it that's too bad.

We don't need another flame war in  the forums.

If anybody wants one they'll have to deal with the mods and the consequences.

You just implied that a character needs to be sexualized for them to be romanceable instead of dressing more "conservatively"

Not exactly.

You added the romancible and the sexualized parts of it.

What this may turn into is a " all romances are bad they're objectifying women and should be done away with"
thread like the infamous dating sim thread the mods had to close and we'll end up with another flamewar.

That's my concern.

Philosophical /poltical/moral/cultural objections to anything in the DA series while ok to express shouldn't be the cause of a division/acrimony/turmoil in the forums.

If you don't have an objection to that then that's too bad for you.<_<

Except you are the only person to bring up romances in this thread.  Nobody else has drawn any kind of connection between over-sexualisation of women and romances.

[spirosz]

Bfler wrote...

JordanDH wrote...

Bfler wrote...

St. Victorious wrote...
This might be a hard to grasp, but some woman choose to portray themselves sexually.

40 years ago a lot af women in the western world run around willingly in miniskirts, which hardly covered the butt. A lot of people here don't seem to know such and other trends.

Fashionwear ≠ battle garbs.

Not in a game, because the battles with fantasy creatures, magic etc.. are already unrealistic. Therefore there is no reason that the clothes have to be like in reality.

I believe you're mixing up gameplay vs reality.