408 réponses à ce sujet

[JordanDH]

Shevy_001 wrote...

@JordanDH:
In the industry in general? Of course and especially in asian games I'm often thinking "really??why?"  and "who finds something like that attractive?" but imo the DA team never included such an armor. The Dalish Armor is a little more revealing in the female version, sure, do I care? No. If it would've been the male version? No.

So I don't see something the designers of DA should improve. 1-2 more-revealing armors per game is great because it supports your PC when you're role playing a nympho.

Think the leather armours which were full length trousers for men and leather skirts for the women.  As I've said, Bioware tends to be ahead of the curve on these things.  And I even support including the "sexier" armours but for all sexes and races and in addition to the more protective ones.  I think there's always room for improvement.  Maybe giving a little more customisation in the shape and size of characters.  Men are always big muscular things and women are always dainty (excluding the dwarves).  Why can't we have some lean dainty men and big powerful women as PCs?  It's design by male fantasy, in my opinion.

[aphelion4]

Nefla wrote...

I'm a female gamer and BioWare's designs are not offensive to me in the LEAST. They run the gamut between certain skimpy mage robes with a slit all the way up to the hip to walking mailbox-like heavy armor where you can't tell the character's gender. You can choose what do dress your characters in. Also guess what? There are women out there that don't hate their bodies or their femininity and would choose to show cleavage, have right clothes, etc...in real life. There is already a wide choice of styles, so you dress your character how you want and don't try to force your Amish ideals on other people.

This. Depending on my characters, I will dress them differently. I also like boob armor and prefer armor to accentuate my character's womanly curves. For me, an armor doesn't have to be ultra realistic, but it must be badass/pretty/cool/unique. I don't care if her sternum will shatter in the real world.

I wouldn't wear a chainmail bikini because I think they look incredibly stupid and have no thought put into them, but I won't be opposed to wearing an armor with a bit of cleavage thrown in.

Now, this seems better suited on a Mass Effect forum, what with Edi's ****** and Miranda's ass-chafing impossibly tight catsuit. If DA starts forcing my characters to dress like characters in Tera, then I would facepalm, but right now they've done a pretty good job at making...well, drab, ugly practical armor. Thank God for mods.

DA:I looks like it's stepping up the game to some pretty cool, well thought out armor though. :>

So basically, variety is the spice of life.

[Nefla]

Veruin wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

Isn't it about time we condemn the character with the lowest-cut attire in Dragon Age 2?

Don't be silly, he's a man.  That's perfectly alright.

Nothing is sexist or offensive unless it involves a woman -Anita Sarkeesian and her lackeys.

[Khayness]

So, getting offended by pixels is still going to be THE thing in 2014?

[Gwydden]

JordanDH wrote...

Think the leather armours which were full length trousers for men and leather skirts for the women.  As I've said, Bioware tends to be ahead of the curve on these things.  And I even support including the "sexier" armours but for all sexes and races and in addition to the more protective ones.  I think there's always room for improvement.  Maybe giving a little more customisation in the shape and size of characters.  Men are always big muscular things and women are always dainty (excluding the dwarves).  Why can't we have some lean dainty men and big powerful women as PCs?  It's design by male fantasy, in my opinion.

If you take a look at both male and female Hawke in their underwear, they both have a very similar consitution. Athletic, but not "big" and "powerful" by any means.

[General TSAR]

Khayness wrote...

So, getting offended by pixels is still going to be THE thing in 2014?

Yep. 

[SpamBot2000]

You know Sisters, even a Heroine like Valerie Solanas (look her up, she shot Andy Warhol - Grrl Powah!) was entirely too charitable to men when she suggested that men ought to be imprisoned, but could still watch women on TV screens in their cells in her Herstorical SCUM (that's "Society for Cutting Up Men", naturally) Manifesto. Male sexuality is clearly an unalloyed evil, unlike the Sacred Goddess Yoni Power of the Sisters. As long as the Male Eye can see, the dread Male Gaze is clearly subjecting all Goddess Sisters unto a slavery most foul. So can't we just blind these freaks of nature called "men"? Also, hearing the Sisterly voice can cause untoward imaginings, so maybe they ought to to be deafened also. It's a valid consideration.

It's a good thing we in these modern times are all products of immaculate conception, so the filth of sexuality has no place in our lives.

Modifié par SpamBot2000, 18 janvier 2014 - 09:36 .

[Killdren88]

Khayness wrote...

So, getting offended by pixels is still going to be THE thing in 2014?

Seems that way..And Dragon Age is getting which is highly unnecessary. Take these outrages to TERA.

Modifié par Killdren88, 18 janvier 2014 - 09:36 .

[XxPrincess(x)ThreatxX]

Go play that TERA MMO game & then tell me female DA outfits are overly revealing.

[Neon Rising Winter]

Khayness wrote...

So, getting offended by pixels is still going to be THE thing in 2014?

It is on the internet. It's pretty hard to be offended by something on the internet without pixels being involved. Well alright there's all the audio based stuff, but the bulk of content is still delivered via pixel.

[Rotward]

Nefla wrote...

Veruin wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...
Isn't it about time we condemn the character with the lowest-cut attire in Dragon Age 2?

Don't be silly, he's a man.  That's perfectly alright.

Nothing is sexist or offensive unless it involves a woman -Anita Sarkeesian and her lackeys.

Sexism requires a persistent representation, not just one instance. Every girl having giant boobs = sexist. One girl having giant boobs = fine.

Every man being a bobybuilder with glorious chest hair and a large bulge = sexist. One man with glorious chest hair = fine.

Threat300 wrote...

Go play that TERA MMO game & then tell me female DA outfits are overly revealing.

Wait, there are clothes in that game? I never noticed... 

Modifié par Rotward, 18 janvier 2014 - 09:38 .

[Abraham_uk]

Why is it that whenever there is a thread that has the potential of producing an interesting discussion, it ultimately goes nowhere?

Name calling
Insults
Sexism
Misrepresentation of other peoples arguments
etc.


This doesn't even have to be a gender issue.
Asking for combat viable gear for all characters.
Asking for complex characters with traits that go beyond race and gender.

It just seems like common sense.

Modifié par Abraham_uk, 18 janvier 2014 - 09:38 .

[Gwydden]

Rotward wrote...

Every man being a bobybuilder with glorious chest hair and a large bulge = sexist.

I'm a man, and I don't consider it sexist at all. I can't even see how someone can jump to that conclusion.

[Veruin]

Abraham_uk wrote...

Why is it that whenever there is a thread that has the potential of producing an interesting discussion, it ultimately goes nowhere?

There was no discussion to be in the first place since the OP basically cherry picked two characters and the PC armour to justify it.

[JordanDH]

 

Nefla wrote...

I wonder how many of the people crying "oppression!" and "oversexualization!" Are actually women and how many are either misguided white knights that think they are helping women's rights, or simply men who don't like when women wear certain things and wish to force all women to wear what THEY like rather than what the woman likes?

YOU CAN DRESS YOUR CHARACTER ANY WAY YOU WANT! Don't tell me how to dress mine, don't tell bioware to make every female character regardless of battle role or personality wear a hijab because that's what YOU want. Dragon Age is not realistic in the slightest, from tiny skinny elves being physically stronger than big beefy Qunari, to magic, to the fact that no one ages or wears helmets or changes clothes so don't try an use "realism" as an excuse. Me and my character will dress how we want, in a way that suits us and *gasp!* that includes massive breasts, bleach blonde hair, and revealing clothes. We are people and we exist, don't try to exclude us from the game because we don't fit YOUR ideal. 

There is so much variety of armor and clothing in DA that you can have it any way you want so let me have MY game how I want.

Strawman!  I call strawman!

I haven't seen anyone say "you can't dress them this way," or "no one can be sexual", but that's the only point you can argue against so you imply that it's the only one being made.  No one's trying to take away your right or your ability to make busty scantily clad women, we're just saying maybe let us make big donged scantily clad men and well armoured women too!  Let us have powerfully built women and skinny little boytoys!  The issue isn't the complete lack of realism, the reason realism is being brought up is because it's inequally applied.  Men are given strong protective armour, women are given breast windows.  Why are there so few arseless chaps available in Dragon Age?!  You are arguing against no one here.  These issues I raised got a lot better in DAII (the NPC armours were still a little more skimpy on the women than the men), but it's still not completely equal.  That's what we want.  Men and women to be equally sexualised and equally fleshed out as characters.  For practicality to be as much a part of the women's designs as it is for the men's.

[Vandicus]

1. Funnily enough, not all women like to dress super conservatively. It should be acceptable for written characters to have traits that exist in real life.
2. Its a fantasy game. Lots of the clothes will be impractical. Lots of the weapons will be impractical. The setting has *gasp* magic. When you really think about it, a lot of clothes worn today are not necessarily practical. A business suit for instance. What use is there in a tie?
3. http://en.wikipedia..../Muscle_cuirass  OMG so impractical, what nutcase would wear armor with a point beside protecting the wearer? Well, we call them humans.

Modifié par Vandicus, 18 janvier 2014 - 09:43 .

[Axdinosaurx]

Well all things considered, Bioware's armor is pretty modest compared to A LOT of other games. There is still room for improvement but they've done a decent job so far of keeping it tasteful.

[Killdren88]

Abraham_uk wrote...

Why is it that whenever there is a thread that has the potential of producing an interesting discussion, it ultimately goes nowhere?

Name calling
Insults
Sexism
Misrepresentation of other peoples arguments
etc.


This doesn't even have to be a gender issue.
Asking for combat viable gear for all characters.
Asking for complex characters with traits that go beyond race and gender.

It just seems like common sense.

I guess people feel that Bioware needs to be the spear head for social justice and what not which is just too much. They are an RPG studio. Not a Hub for social juctice. It's nice that they inculde everyone, but now they what to use Bioware as a soap box for this sort of thing. This is why you have organizations for this sort of thing. Don't go looking to Bioware to be the spokesperson for equality for all.
Bioware:

[Shevy]

@JordanDH

Different body shapes is another matter. I would really love to see them being implemented, but I understand they are a resource-heavy task with the cinematic approach Dragon Age follows. So I'm ok with them being only a "nice to have" feature.

I wanted to play a small, skinny thief or a muscular female warrior since Origins launched. That's why I'm very curious about the female Qunari body model, hopefully they are muscle packages like the male ones.

Modifié par Shevy_001, 18 janvier 2014 - 09:45 .

[nici2412]

JordanDH wrote...

 

Nefla wrote...

I wonder how many of the people crying "oppression!" and "oversexualization!" Are actually women and how many are either misguided white knights that think they are helping women's rights, or simply men who don't like when women wear certain things and wish to force all women to wear what THEY like rather than what the woman likes?

YOU CAN DRESS YOUR CHARACTER ANY WAY YOU WANT! Don't tell me how to dress mine, don't tell bioware to make every female character regardless of battle role or personality wear a hijab because that's what YOU want. Dragon Age is not realistic in the slightest, from tiny skinny elves being physically stronger than big beefy Qunari, to magic, to the fact that no one ages or wears helmets or changes clothes so don't try an use "realism" as an excuse. Me and my character will dress how we want, in a way that suits us and *gasp!* that includes massive breasts, bleach blonde hair, and revealing clothes. We are people and we exist, don't try to exclude us from the game because we don't fit YOUR ideal. 

There is so much variety of armor and clothing in DA that you can have it any way you want so let me have MY game how I want.

Strawman!  I call strawman!

 Men are given strong protective armour, women are given breast windows. 

Really?

Modifié par nici2412, 18 janvier 2014 - 09:46 .

[Vandicus]

JordanDH wrote...

 

Nefla wrote...

I wonder how many of the people crying "oppression!" and "oversexualization!" Are actually women and how many are either misguided white knights that think they are helping women's rights, or simply men who don't like when women wear certain things and wish to force all women to wear what THEY like rather than what the woman likes?

YOU CAN DRESS YOUR CHARACTER ANY WAY YOU WANT! Don't tell me how to dress mine, don't tell bioware to make every female character regardless of battle role or personality wear a hijab because that's what YOU want. Dragon Age is not realistic in the slightest, from tiny skinny elves being physically stronger than big beefy Qunari, to magic, to the fact that no one ages or wears helmets or changes clothes so don't try an use "realism" as an excuse. Me and my character will dress how we want, in a way that suits us and *gasp!* that includes massive breasts, bleach blonde hair, and revealing clothes. We are people and we exist, don't try to exclude us from the game because we don't fit YOUR ideal. 

There is so much variety of armor and clothing in DA that you can have it any way you want so let me have MY game how I want.

Strawman!  I call strawman!

I haven't seen anyone say "you can't dress them this way," or "no one can be sexual", but that's the only point you can argue against so you imply that it's the only one being made.  No one's trying to take away your right or your ability to make busty scantily clad women, we're just saying maybe let us make big donged scantily clad men and well armoured women too!  Let us have powerfully built women and skinny little boytoys!  The issue isn't the complete lack of realism, the reason realism is being brought up is because it's inequally applied.  Men are given strong protective armour, women are given breast windows.  Why are there so few arseless chaps available in Dragon Age?!  You are arguing against no one here.  These issues I raised got a lot better in DAII (the NPC armours were still a little more skimpy on the women than the men), but it's still not completely equal.  That's what we want.  Men and women to be equally sexualised and equally fleshed out as characters.  For practicality to be as much a part of the women's designs as it is for the men's.

Fenris. *cough*cough

[Gwydden]

Vandicus wrote...

1. Funnily enough, not all women like to dress super conservatively. It should be acceptable for written characters to have traits that exist in real life.

As a matter of fact, most young women I know dress in a rather unconservative way, to put it mildly.

Vandicus wrote...
2. Its a fantasy game. Lots of the clothes will be impractical. Lots of the weapons will be impractical. The setting has *gasp* magic. When you really think about it, a lot of clothes worn today are not necessarily practical. A business suit for instance. What use is there in a tie?

But armor is suposed to keep you alive. I don't think the "there's magic!" argument has any value. It being fantasy doesn't give you a pass to throw common sense out the window.

Vandicus wrote...
3. http://en.wikipedia..../Muscle_cuirass  OMG so impractical, what nutcase would wear armor with a point beside protecting the wearer? Well, we call them humans.

But when you're going to battle, you have to be really stupid to use something that not only doesn't protect you, it also makes things worse for you.

[General TSAR]

Killdren88 wrote...
I guess people feel that Bioware needs to be the spear head for social justice and what not which is just too much. They are an RPG studio. Not a Hub for social juctice. It's nice that they inculde everyone, but now they what to use Bioware as a soap box for this sort of thing. This is why you have organizations for this sort of thing. Don't go looking to Bioware to be the spokesperson for equality for all.
Bioware:

Preach it brother.

[Veruin]

Vandicus wrote...

Fenris. *cough*cough

Don't forget pre-templar/Grey Warden Carver.

Modifié par Veruin, 18 janvier 2014 - 09:49 .

[JordanDH]

Vandicus wrote...

1. Funnily enough, not all women like to dress super conservatively. It should be acceptable for written characters to have traits that exist in real life.
2. Its a fantasy game. Lots of the clothes will be impractical. Lots of the weapons will be impractical. The setting has *gasp* magic. When you really think about it, a lot of clothes worn today are not necessarily practical. A business suit for instance. What use is there in a tie?
3. http://en.wikipedia..../Muscle_cuirass  OMG so impractical, what nutcase would wear armor with a point beside protecting the wearer? Well, we call them humans.

• No one is claiming otherwise.  But when all the majority of characters of a certain sex are all dressing and behaving a certain way because of what the other sex desires, that's when it's problematic.
• You wouldn't wear a tie to a modern day battlefield.  Just like you wouldn't wear an Orlesian gown to Thedas battlefield.
• No one's saying that armour can't be attractive, but it should also be practical.  Your example seems to be have been primarily for generals and deities, i.e. people not doing a great deal of fighting themselves.