45 réponses à ce sujet

[DeinonSlayer]

Gotta wonder if Ardats et al only came about because the modern Asari are the remnants of a broken Prothean genetic engineering experiment. Maybe they weren't capable of cross-species reproduction beforehand. We know they weren't biotics before Prothean tampering.

[shodiswe]

StreetMagic wrote...

DeinonSlayer wrote...

Gotta wonder if Ardats et al only came about because the modern Asari are the remnants of a broken Prothean genetic engineering experiment. Maybe they weren't capable of cross-species reproduction beforehand. We know they weren't biotics before Prothean tampering.

Yeah, there's still a lot of unanswered questions about their relation to the Protheans. That's the most interesting part about the Asari to me. I don't know why I always missed this, but in the Thessia mission, I finally clicked on all of the artifacts before clicking the main one that triggers the beacon. Then I got little commentary about them from Liara. I didn't realize that Athame looked like a Prothean herself.

Do that with Liara and Javik. Then Liara gives here version then Javik tells you the Proteans version.

Javik will tell you how the Proteans taught them to read and write, how they taught them math, how they taught them how to sow crops.

In the end it commes across like the Asari were given huge freebies for most of their existance.
Humanity had to learn math how to sow crops and how to read and write on our own. I can only imagine how that affected future Asari inovation.

While humanity entered space on their own with crude spaceships created by human science until they found the ruins on Mars. Most of the other species found knowledge and technology that brought them into the spaceage.
Humanity is described as being fast to adapt and develop new technologies and new concepts while the Council species are stagnated.
I guess humanitys entry on the stage has created some competition that might get the others going.

Modifié par shodiswe, 19 janvier 2014 - 04:01 .

[AlanC9]

shodiswe wrote...
I guess humanitys entry on the stage has created some competition that might get the others going.

This might explain why Sovereign panicked and went with the Conduit plan rather than let Benezia and Saren build an indoctrinated fifth column on the Citadel over decades (centuries in her case). The status quo was quite favorabke to the Reapers, since Citadel forces were stagnant in bith size and, apoarently, technology. But if that status wuo was upset...

[congokong]

Alocormin wrote...

Technically this is commensalism rather than parasitism.  If your main interest in sex is pro-creation, it definitely is one-sided in certain ways.  But I wonder at calling it parasitic.The Asari doesn't take at the expense of the other being, unless they're an Ardat Yakshi.  

http://en.wikipedia....ki/Commensalism
http://en.wikipedia....wiki/Parasitism

Read that or take my word for it.  Or use a dicitonary.

The "father" does get the "pleasure," whatever that involves, of reproducing with the Asari.  And then the Asari has a "parasite" she gives birth to later, assuming they don't lay eggs. Similar to human relationships, the father may not have to deal with the responsibility of child rearing and is not subject to the trials of pregnancy.

It could be argued that the father in this case is more of a parasite, even.  Or has the potential to be.

I considered calling it commensalism, and it is if the relationship isn't monogomous. But if it is it's parasitism because the father's genes are removed from their species gene pool which weakens the species.

[von uber]

StreetMagic wrote...

Well, Thessia is listed as having a population of over 5 billion. Then they have plenty of colonies.

Given Earth has 13Bn, that doesn't seem particularly high given Asari lifespans. You would assume the colonies have less people on them.

[TuringPoint]

Did you edit your original post?  It doesn't say it was and yet, I can't remember reading the post as it is now.

Speaking strictly of procreation, one side gains and the other loses.  That's brood parasitism.  It would be hard to quantify exactly how much, and considering that every individual in a race would be in a few billion or more, the effect on the gene pool would be minimal unless a significant percentage of that race mated with one Asari for life. Even then there would still be billions and billions, but there is a loss there. I'm not sure how it could be argued that there is any significant loss, considering the scale.  Also consider that there are only so many Asari, and every other race (dozens at least) has a few billion as well.  

That said, with fathers from every other race, assuming monogamous relationships, the Asari give back in other ways. They help to form the alliances in the galaxy, and give their race a voice in the Asari culture and way of life.

In a strictly genetic sense they are parasitic, just seems lame to me to only think about that.

That said, the whole notion of "blue space babes that mate with anything but reproduce asexually" is a little creepy. If they'd been braver they could've skipped the space babe thing and just made them androgynous entities that weren't sexualized but, could reproduce with other races. I guess it would be too radical not to make them sexy space babes.

=====next topic====

There's a lot of potential in the relationship of the developing Asari and the Prothean empire in its death throes. Why did they keep so much a secret with all the other races, or even within their own species?

One idea I had is that their basic asexuality, their ability to blend with other races, is a result of some sort of tampering the Protheans did to ensure there was a race that could translate their messages across time in the far future. They were the only race to be able to transfer racial knowledge like that; without them the cycle would have continued for sure.

Modifié par Alocormin, 19 janvier 2014 - 05:54 .

[DeinonSlayer]

@shodiswe
I know there were hints dropped here and there about the various species. Humans had the Mars archives. One of the planets in Khar'shan's system say the Batarians take it as a point of pride that they had fewer Prothean relics to go on when they were developing spaceflight. The Quarians didn't even have access to eezo until they went through their relay and found other species to trade with, making me question if they had relics to work with at all. I'm sure there are similar "starting points" given for other species if someone digs through enough planet descriptions; I was surprised to find the Council fired the first shots of the Krogan rebellions. But yeah, the Asari were given everything right off the bat.

Gotta wonder if a shorter-lived species would have done more with it in the time they had...

Modifié par DeinonSlayer, 19 janvier 2014 - 05:54 .

[General TSAR]

von uber wrote...Anyone know how many of them there actually are?

Way too many. 

[shodiswe]

DeinonSlayer wrote...

@shodiswe
I know there were hints dropped here and there about the various species. Humans had the Mars archives. One of the planets in Khar'shan's system say the Batarians take it as a point of pride that they had fewer Prothean relics to go on when they were developing spaceflight. The Quarians didn't even have access to eezo until they went through their relay and found other species to trade with, making me question if they had relics to work with at all. I'm sure there are similar "starting points" given for other species if someone digs through enough planet descriptions; I was surprised to find the Council fired the first shots of the Krogan rebellions. But yeah, the Asari were given everything right off the bat.

Gotta wonder if a shorter-lived species would have done more with it in the time they had...

I can't remember any mention about how the Quarians joined the galactic community.

[DeinonSlayer]

@Shodiswe
Planet description of Kaddi:

Kaddi has low gravity for a planet of its size, which proved a significant boon to early quarian explorers. Even before the discovery of mass-effect technology, it was easy to extract Kaddi's resources. When the quarians made first contact with the Citadel species and gained access to eezo, profits rose and the orbital stations became a beehive of activity.

Given that it says the Quarians made first contact with Citadel species instead of the other way around, it seems to me they were still using "conventional" spaceflight like what we have now when they discovered and used their relay, as opposed to a Salarian scout ship or whatever reaching out to them.

EDIT: Incidentally, Verush was the planet with the description for Batarian spaceflight development.

Modifié par DeinonSlayer, 19 janvier 2014 - 06:27 .

[DeinonSlayer]

If Asari (for cultural reasons) reproduce exclusively with other species, why do so many still live on Thessia with each other? Wouldn't they try to disseminate themselves among foreign populations as much as possible? I know a lot do, but still... billions on a single planet?

Also, wouldn't it be dangerous for other species who lack a natural tolerance for eezo to live on Thessia, given that it's naturally so widespread there? The stuff is poisonous to humans, turians, salarians, etc. so I wouldn't expect to find many living there when even exposure to a rainstorm could give you cancer.

[ImaginaryMatter]

I never thought about that. If I had to give a reason I would say that since Asari live so long most of the population is either Matriarchs, children, or those in the Matron stage who have outlived their spouses and moved back to Thessia to raise their children in a stable environment with all the culture of Thessia.

[congokong]

Alocormin wrote...

Did you edit your original post?  It doesn't say it was and yet, I can't remember reading the post as it is now.

The OP has never been edited. It would say so if it was.

Speaking strictly of procreation, one side gains and the other loses.  That's brood parasitism.  It would be hard to quantify exactly how much, and considering that every individual in a race would be in a few billion or more, the effect on the gene pool would be minimal unless a significant percentage of that race mated with one Asari for life. Even then there would still be billions and billions, but there is a loss there. I'm not sure how it could be argued that there is any significant loss, considering the scale.  Also consider that there are only so many Asari, and every other race (dozens at least) has a few billion as well.  

This is off-topic. I'm not judging the practice or saying it has long-term negative consequences. I'm defining it scientifically.


I'm more interested in someone answering my OP question on if strong genes from the father have any relevance in procreation.

Modifié par congokong, 19 janvier 2014 - 09:19 .

[Han Shot First]

There are plenty of human relationships that don't produce offspring. One or both members of a relationship may be sterile/infertile. Some couples may not have children by choice. Same sex relationships are incapable of it.

Also the percentage of humans (or Turians, Drell, ect) that pairs with an Asari is likely to be a minority. Regardless of the species most people probably never leave their homeworlds and marry and reproduce with their own species. Its unlikely that interspecies relationship with Asari would have much of a noticeble effect on the birth rates of other species.

[shodiswe]

DeinonSlayer wrote...

@Shodiswe
Planet description of Kaddi:

Kaddi has low gravity for a planet of its size, which proved a significant boon to early quarian explorers. Even before the discovery of mass-effect technology, it was easy to extract Kaddi's resources. When the quarians made first contact with the Citadel species and gained access to eezo, profits rose and the orbital stations became a beehive of activity.

Given that it says the Quarians made first contact with Citadel species instead of the other way around, it seems to me they were still using "conventional" spaceflight like what we have now when they discovered and used their relay, as opposed to a Salarian scout ship or whatever reaching out to them.

EDIT: Incidentally, Verush was the planet with the description for Batarian spaceflight development.

The Proteans did visit the Quarian homeworld, it even sounded like the Proteans had a foundness for the Quarians.
It's likely something got left behind.
The Quarians do seem more tech minded and progressive than most of the council species though.

It's possible the Humans and Quarians are more innovative and tech minded because they wern't spoon feed by the Proteans. Javik keept talking about Quarian slaves though.

Maybe we will learn more in the next game. Humanity had no Eezo except for a few ancient protean storage tanks found on Mars.
Later they found Eezo elsewhere outside our sol system.

The Mars base was likely a staging base that the Proteans intended to use for Human studies, like the Salarians did to the Yagh, but then the Reapers hit before they could get going, and instead they began working on the Crusible project instead.
The real question is, how did the Protean Research endup on Mars and why was it that Protean Human study scientists were workign on the Crusible, one would think they would be biologists rather than the type that works on a Crusible.

There is a lot of weird stuff in the Mass effect story and a lot of unknowns. Or maybe they wern't working on it, maybe they were just making backup copies for a different teams findings. In a similar way to how Liara seeded information about the Crusible towards the end of ME3.

Modifié par shodiswe, 20 janvier 2014 - 12:45 .

[CrutchCricket]

Interesting points. This whole "genetic randomization" concept raises other questions as well.
If asari merely use the data to randomize the genetic code of the offspring, that means the offspring itself could theoretically be spontaneously generated. If that's the case:

1) Would asari technically be able to spontaneously reproduce asexually? Without randomization the offspring would be a perfect natural clone.
2) Why bother with other species for mating at all? If randomization is all that's required genetic engineering is advanced enough in the MEverse for tech to accomodate. And if strong genetics are sought after, why take a chance on aliens when you can directly control the traits you want?*
3) In a relationship between two asari, why does only one give birth? Asari referencing gender-based parental roles makes no sense. During the baby-making meld both parents should use the other's code to randomize and conceive an offspring each. And on that note;
4) Do asari get twins? How does the randomization affect that?

*The concept of "randomization" also seems to be at odds with selecting specifically desirable traits from their partners. Unless asari are able to pick and choose (how?) which traits they want. If they can do that, consciously or no, they should a) be far more advanced in genetic engineering than any other race and should be used for/in studies of the subject. But clearly they're not. Still I find it odd that they wouldn't pursue it more.

Of course from our perspective it could just be yet another case of Writers Didn't Think It Through

[AlexMBrennan]

2) Why bother with other species for mating at all? If randomization is all that's required genetic engineering is advanced enough in the MEverse for tech to accomodate.

Why bother with sexual intercourse when artificial insemination is advanced enough to accomodate?

3) In a relationship between two asari, why does only one give birth?

In a relationship between two humans, why don't the humans get pregnant every time they ovulate?

. But clearly they're not. Still I find it odd that they wouldn't pursue it more.

Because thence lies Godwin, which most artists trying to sell their works will try to avoid.

[CrutchCricket]

AlexMBrennan wrote...
Why bother with sexual intercourse when artificial insemination is advanced enough to accomodate?

2) Why bother with other species for mating at all?

reed moar.

I dare to assume you're aware that sexual intercourse can be pursued for reasons other than mating. And telepathically downloading data to "randomize" your spontaneously generated ovum seems a little less... involved than physically inserting fertilized eggs or sperm.

In a relationship between two humans, why don't the humans get pregnant every time they ovulate?

Maybe because humans unlike asari can't choose precisely when they get pregant?

One asari choosing to get pregnant while the other doesn't so the latter can be the "father" is nonsensical.

Because thence lies Godwin, which most artists trying to sell their works will try to avoid.

What?