97 réponses à ce sujet

[fearthedragonof666]

I'd like to add that this is NOT meant to spiral into another ending thread, although I do share my opinion.

Now, let's just keep this math simple.

The Leviathan of Dis is a Reaper corpse dated at approx. 1 BILLION years old. Now, the Reapers arrive about every 50,000 years. Every time they purge the Galaxy, they create a new Capital Ship, and possibly multiple Destroyers. Now to get a general estimate , we just divide:

1,000,000,000/50,000= 20,000.

We can get the most basic, rough estimate to be around TWENTY THOUSAND REAPER CAPITAL SHIPS. Now, it takes 4 Dreadnoughts to take down a Capital ship, assuming the Reaper doesn't one-shot all 4 before they can even fire. There are only maybe 122 or so Dreadnoughts as a general estimate, not including Quarian or Batarian ships, and with estimating the Geth to have about 37. This is as of 2185. It goes without saying that there are not even remotely enough of them. Keep in mind, our 20,000 estimate does NOT include all the Destroyers that are among the Reaper fleet, although while capable of one-shotting any alien ship, they are much easier to neutralize, although this still requires a hell of a lot of work.

Also, from what I remember hearing from Bioware, this cycle is unique in how it has been able to kill Reapers, this is NOT something that has been done all too much in past cycles. Keep in mind, several cycles would have, based on the math above, been purged by a significantly smaller amount of Reapers compared to the current cycle.

So, I guess I've made my case as to why all this "We should be able to beat them conventionally if we have 5000 war assets" talk is a bunch of bull.

Modifié par fearthedragonof666, 19 janvier 2014 - 04:08 .

[ruggly]

Modifié par ruggly, 19 janvier 2014 - 04:11 .

[Darks1d3]

 *headdesk* Does anyone have a good beating a dead horse gif or image to share?

[ruggly]

Gotchya covered

[fearthedragonof666]

ruggly wrote...

"push the magic button and the bad guys die" ending.

Except that is pretty much what happens with destroy, 'cept with shooting the button.

In a way, yes, but in the process you are forced to kill all other Synthtic life, destroy the Mass Relays, and damage technology, and that's just with a GOOD ending. It has a price, and a big one at that. (Unless you already killed the Geth, in which case it's not THAT big a deal. Besides the whole Relay thing.) Again, not perfect, but I'm talking more about the simple, generic ending we always see "Good guy gives his life to press magic Off button. Everything goes back to normal after we rebuild some infrastructure"

[Darks1d3]

ruggly wrote...

Gotchya covered

Thank you kind sir 

[ruggly]

fearthedragonof666 wrote...


In a way, yes, but in the process you are forced to kill all other Synthtic life, destroy the Mass Relays, and damage technology, and that's just with a GOOD ending. It has a price, and a big one at that. (Unless you already killed the Geth, in which case it's not THAT big a deal. Besides the whole Relay thing.) Again, not perfect, but I'm talking more about the simple, generic ending we always see "Good guy gives his life to press magic Off button. Everything goes back to normal after we rebuild some infrastructure"

Control and Synthesis for the bolded, control ending goes back to relative normal, it's only with synthesis does the galaxy really change.  I understand and can appreciate what BioWare tried to do with the ending, but it didn't work for me.  Glad you liked it, however.

[fearthedragonof666]

I also understand what you mean. Again, they aren't perfect, and the delivery wasn't great, but the IDEA of the endings is great. But I didn't mean to start another ending thread. I was more focused on this whole "beating them without the Crucible" idea that's going around.

[ruggly]

Ah. Most people understand why the crucible exists, they just have a problem with how it was introduced.

[fearthedragonof666]

Agreed. I don't know. To each their own. Believe me, *I* have no interest in starting another ending debate. It's been 2 years, I've had my fill of arguing. I should have left that whole bit out.

[ruggly]

Edit button is your friend.

[fearthedragonof666]

Yes it is, isn't it?

[Mathias]

Beating the Reaper conventionally was one of the correct ways to go with the story. The writers just needed to come up with a way to make it possible. But from a narrative standpoint there were two problems in Mass Effect 2. One is that the Reaper plotline almost got entirely sidelined, and two is that the rest of the galaxy handwaved the whole Sovereign incident as a Geth attack. Because of this, when ME3 came along the writers had to pull something outta their rear to come up with a way to defeat the Reapers, because they lacked foresight back in ME1/ME2 on how they would be beaten.

If immediately after the Sovereign incident the Council began uniting the Galaxy, studying Sovereigns tech (carefully), and pouring a crap ton of resources into building military might and advanced weaponry, then by the time ME3 came along, conventional victory should've been a possibility. It also would've made for a more interesting game.

[ruggly]

fearthedragonof666 wrote...

Yes it is, isn't it?

yep, but you still better prepare for a possible nasty debate.

[fearthedragonof666]

Maybe for you, but it isn't in the spirit of Mass Effect. I agree the wrote themselves into a corner (that's what happens when Drew Karpyshyn leaves the writing team) to an extent, but even in uniting, the Reapers are SUPPOSED to be an entity you can't beat through normal means. They embody the forces of the universe, and that's not something you can defeat.

My main complaint is that they shouldn't have even bothered with Leviathan. It would have been much better to keep the motives of the Reapers a mystery.

"YOU CANNOT HOPE TO UNDERSTAND US"

"Try me"

"WE ERADICATE ALL ADVANCED SPECIES IN ORDER TO PRESERVE THE CONTINUITY OF LIFE"

"Wow. SOOOO hard to understand"

[fearthedragonof666]

ruggly wrote...

fearthedragonof666 wrote...

Yes it is, isn't it?

yep, but you still better prepare for a possible nasty debate.

That's life in an internet forum, unfortunatly.

[grey_wind]

I feel that, for most people, when someone says they wanted to beat the Reapers conventionally, what they really mean is that they wanted it to be a victory won on our own terms and not those of a giant super weapon pulled out of nowhere at the 11th hour.

For example, I think a lot more people would have been accepting of the Crucible if it was something this cycle designed.
In fact, it wouldn't be much of a stretch to believe that Liara (the new Shadow Broker) and or The Illusive Man had designed a theoretical weapon that would exploit the Citadel's role as a relay hub to send out an attack/control signal targeted at the Reapers throughout the relay network, especially given everything we learn at Ilos and the Collector Base. This would obviously preclude the Catalyst and the nonsensical implementation of Synthesis, but frankly, that's nothing of value that's been lost.

Personally, I think an origin like that for the Crucible would strain people's willing suspension of disbelief a lot less than some incomprehensible super weapon we've never heard of before that has been passed on from cycle to cycle for billions of years which we just conveniently found in our time of greatest need.

[fearthedragonof666]

grey_wind wrote...

I feel that, for most people, when someone says they wanted to beat the Reapers conventionally, what they really mean is that they wanted it to be a victory won on our own terms and not those of a giant super weapon pulled out of nowhere at the 11th hour.

For example, I think a lot more people would have been accepting of the Crucible if it was something this cycle designed.
In fact, it wouldn't be much of a stretch to believe that Liara (the new Shadow Broker) and or The Illusive Man had designed a theoretical weapon that would exploit the Citadel's role as a relay hub to send out an attack/control signal targeted at the Reapers throughout the relay network, especially given everything we learn at Ilos and the Collector Base. This would obviously preclude the Catalyst and the nonsensical implementation of Synthesis, but frankly, that's nothing of value that's been lost.

Personally, I think an origin like that for the Crucible would strain people's willing suspension of disbelief a lot less than some incomprehensible super weapon we've never heard of before that has been passed on from cycle to cycle for billions of years which we just conveniently found in our time of greatest need.

This. You're right, pulling a Deus Ex out at the last second is NEVER a good idea.

[AlexMBrennan]

designed.
In fact, it wouldn't be much of a stretch to believe that Liara (the new Shadow Broker) and or The Illusive Man had designed a theoretical weapon that would exploit the Citadel's role as a relay hub to send out an attack/control signal targeted at the Reapers throughout the relay network

Why? It's news to me that intelligence analysts and super weapon engineers (e.g. nuclear physicists) have much of a skill overlap.

[AlanC9]

fearthedragonof666 wrote...

Maybe for you, but it isn't in the spirit of Mass Effect. I agree the wrote themselves into a corner (that's what happens when Drew Karpyshyn leaves the writing team) to an extent, but even in uniting, the Reapers are SUPPOSED to be an entity you can't beat through normal means. They embody the forces of the universe, and thoat's not something you can defeat.

Right. There's no evidence that Bio ever even considered a conventional victory. The Dark Energy plot wasn't going there.

Modifié par AlanC9, 19 janvier 2014 - 04:48 .

[ruggly]

AlanC9 wrote...

The Dark Energy plot wasn't going there.

Thank God the plot didn't go to Dark Energy.

[fearthedragonof666]

ruggly wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

The Dark Energy plot wasn't going there.

Thank God the plot didn't go to Dark Energy.

Amen. It sounds like one of the dumbest ideas I've ever heard of.

[Iakus]

If there were really 20,000 Sovereign class Reapers and Enkindlers-know how many destroyers running around, the game should have been lost with the opening credits. They could have sent a thousand capital ships to face each race and have plenty of reserves left over. Nothing could have stopped them or even slowed them down.

[fearthedragonof666]

It's possible they left some back in Dark Space as reserve forces. Also, keep in mind each Reaper is only 2 kilometers long. Planets are many thousands. Each planet would have hundreds of Reapers, for each city would have obviously more than one. So I disagree with your statement.

[Excella Gionne]

That sounds fine, but can they keep it up forever? No.