97 réponses à ce sujet

[ImaginaryMatter]

My point is conventional victory suffers from the same problems as something like the Crucible, that a good deal of contrivance has to be introduced into the story to make defeating the Reapers possible. The problem is mostly a story issue, rather than a technical/lore, based one because the series isn't particularly hard science fiction and techno babble can pretty much explain away the technology aspects.

Modifié par ImaginaryMatter, 21 janvier 2014 - 09:49 .

[Almostfaceman]

It would have made a more interesting story, to me, if there had been an unconventional conventional victory. Mordin in ME2 talks about technology and stagnation. He addresses how technology thrives, when presented with limitations and problems, technology is created to overcome those problems/limitations. It would have been a good story idea feeding from that that the Reapers, while being advanced, had stagnated technologically and that the races, working together, could each come up with interesting solutions to overcome the problem of the Reapers. The very methods of the Reapers, after all, could be said to feed into this stagnation. They already think they've reached the pinnacle of evolution, and they always cut off other species they must reap at a certain point, thus they never have to come up with new solutions to reap a more advanced cycle.

It would have been better that instead of trying to defeat the Reapers with brute force, we defeated them with new ideas because we didn't give up and give in to our fear. This is what Shep represents, after all. He works with aliens in ME1 and he takes it one step further and even works with an enemy and an AI in ME2. He overcomes the artificial limits of a closed mind and opens to new possibilities. Shepard overcoming the odds and doing things that most think can't be done is what a lot of players expected from ME3, and that's why so many wanted a "conventional" victory instead of the Magic Fix It. That's why I hold most of this talk about superior forces and numbers irrelevant. We already heard it from Sovereign in ME1, he has enough big baddies to darken the skies - we replied with the finger. I wanted that in ME3, winning on our own terms instead of Space Magic.

Modifié par Almostfaceman, 21 janvier 2014 - 10:12 .

[NeonFlux117]

dreamgazer wrote...

NeonFlux117 wrote...

The Reapers cannot be defeated conventionally.

Sovereign was not beaten conventionally. Shepard got lucky and Sovereign got stupid and over confident in his minion Saren. Simple as that.

Now.... ME3 Reapers are a bit of an enigma. But really, isn't the entire game.

Don't think about things to hard in ME3.

Just go with the flow.

Sounds like people shouldn't be thinking about things too hard across the entire trilogy. 

A lot of it can be classified as enigmatic bullshit designed to move the player along. 

Yes. I agree. And it mostly starts at Ilos. That's when things get cray cray.

[dreamgazer]

NeonFlux117 wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

NeonFlux117 wrote...

The Reapers cannot be defeated conventionally.

Sovereign was not beaten conventionally. Shepard got lucky and Sovereign got stupid and over confident in his minion Saren. Simple as that.

Now.... ME3 Reapers are a bit of an enigma. But really, isn't the entire game.

Don't think about things to hard in ME3.

Just go with the flow.

Sounds like people shouldn't be thinking about things too hard across the entire trilogy. 

A lot of it can be classified as enigmatic bullshit designed to move the player along. 

Yes. I agree. And it mostly starts at Ilos. That's when things get cray cray.

Nah, the "cray cray" starts long before that, at the very least with the goofy mental cipher delivered secondhand from a telepathic plant. 

But, pray tell, why Ilos? 

[AlanC9]

He might be pushing the CW agenda. They make a big deal out of the obvious typo in Ilos' atmospheric pressure. I think there's also a re-used texture on one of the towers that proves... something.

[Reorte]

AlanC9 wrote...

Reorte wrote...
There IS still a lot wrong with having a superweapon as such a plot device. It's very rarely a convincing solution (particularly when you've got a history of many failed attempts at defeating the forces) and almost always comes across as too convenient. If your story relies on one in order to give your protagonist something meaningful to do to resolve the plot then you've got a bad story full stop. The superweapon is trying to patch flaws with further flaws.

I'd find this a lot more convincing if superweapon plots were rarer. Unless you're invoking Sturgeon's Law.

Sturgeon's Law is one of those that I've not heard of (I'll Google it later). Just because superweapon plots aren't rare doesn't invalidate my point though, there are a lot of poor stories out there. Some of the them still work in spite of them because there's enough elsewhere to keep the audience satisfied - in Mass Effect's case similar problems have always existed, but when the plot merely existed to provide an excuse for the characters and settings it wasn't as big an issue. Shove it to centre stage and things fall apart.

[dreamgazer]

Reorte wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

Reorte wrote...
There IS still a lot wrong with having a superweapon as such a plot device. It's very rarely a convincing solution (particularly when you've got a history of many failed attempts at defeating the forces) and almost always comes across as too convenient. If your story relies on one in order to give your protagonist something meaningful to do to resolve the plot then you've got a bad story full stop. The superweapon is trying to patch flaws with further flaws.

I'd find this a lot more convincing if superweapon plots were rarer. Unless you're invoking Sturgeon's Law.

Sturgeon's Law is one of those that I've not heard of (I'll Google it later). Just because superweapon plots aren't rare doesn't invalidate my point though, there are a lot of poor stories out there. Some of the them still work in spite of them because there's enough elsewhere to keep the audience satisfied - in Mass Effect's case similar problems have always existed, but when the plot merely existed to provide an excuse for the characters and settings it wasn't as big an issue. Shove it to centre stage and things fall apart.

... and defeating the ageless, near-invincible Reapers by conventional means wouldn't shove the plot to center stage?

[AlanC9]

Sturgeon's Law: 90% of everything is crap. It's an obvious fit for your position, Reorte,  since you've got two simultaneous threads running where you're opposed to things that lots of speculative fiction does.

Modifié par AlanC9, 21 janvier 2014 - 11:18 .

[Reorte]

dreamgazer wrote...

... and defeating the ageless, near-invincible Reapers by conventional means wouldn't shove the plot to center stage?

Where was I defending conventional victory? I've always said that idea was ridiculous too, even in this thread. ME3's problem is that it leaves you at plot events, not setting and character events (Mass Effect's strengths), where the plot merely existed as a vehicle for them.

[Reorte]

AlanC9 wrote...

Sturgeon's Law: 90% of everything is crap. It's an obvious fit for your position, Reorte,  since you've got two simultaneous threads running where you're opposed to things that lots of speculative fiction does.

Fair enough. A lot of speculative fiction is crap. Sometimes it's unavoidable, but the good writer tries to minimise it and lessen its impact instead of wallowing around in it with a big grin on his face. Then the good stuff can shine through.

Modifié par Reorte, 21 janvier 2014 - 11:22 .

[NeonFlux117]

dreamgazer wrote...

NeonFlux117 wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

NeonFlux117 wrote...

The Reapers cannot be defeated conventionally.

Sovereign was not beaten conventionally. Shepard got lucky and Sovereign got stupid and over confident in his minion Saren. Simple as that.

Now.... ME3 Reapers are a bit of an enigma. But really, isn't the entire game.

Don't think about things to hard in ME3.

Just go with the flow.

Sounds like people shouldn't be thinking about things too hard across the entire trilogy. 

A lot of it can be classified as enigmatic bullshit designed to move the player along. 

Yes. I agree. And it mostly starts at Ilos. That's when things get cray cray.

Nah, the "cray cray" starts long before that, at the very least with the goofy mental cipher delivered secondhand from a telepathic plant. 

But, pray tell, why Ilos? 

lol Brain Plant is pretty goofy and full of scifi tropes, but it doesn't break any lore or "rules" established in the series. As you must access the beacon to recieve the cipher- and Shepard and Saren do both, The cipher and brain bug don't really break or even bend lore.

But Ilos....

Lets see, where to start.

A mako insertion requires AT LEAST 100 feet to accomplish, yet..... joker and shep do it with 20 feet... Lulz. NO WAY. And I don't buy the whole- "Cause Joker is so good and Shepard is so good, stuff". No. The lore say's 100 feet, joker did it in 20 feet..... 1/5 of the minimum distance needed... Lore break number 1.

So, Ilos is is an incredibly hot world. So hot, that forest fires are rapent. Huge, huge wild fires.

And yet.... There's Shepard and pals derpin' around without helmets, lol. Ilos should be, and is, at least a level 2 hazard. But..... Nope. Lore Break number 2.

Ilos was originally an Inusannon world, then became a Prothean world. So..... Then, explain the human letters and numbers on the archetecutre??? Lore break number 3.

The "conduit" run... Wow. As if the supsension of disbelief wasn't already at "maximum lore breaks"(Say that it the crysis nanosuit voice), with the Mako drop, and no helmets and stuff. Now, not only does the Mako go through the conduit-another relay,  then somehow can link to the presidium relay..... ONE WAY. Lore Break. Then ontop of that. We have, what is said in the very first dialogue by Joker, about DRIFT, specifically being 1500K. Now.... The Mako should, for all intents and purposes, Fly so fast and hard through the presidium relay, through the presidium lake, through the sides of the citadel out into space.... But. Nope Shepard and pals arrive and roll their way out of the Mako, lol. DRIFT.... I guess not. Lore Break number 4 or 5ish.


This continues into ME2 and obviously into ME3. Now, ME2 mixes with lore breaks and obeying the estlished lore of the series. ME3 is more Lore breaks than not.

But it began on Ilos. That's where the lore goes Wacky.

Modifié par NeonFlux117, 21 janvier 2014 - 11:45 .

[dreamgazer]

NeonFlux117 wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

NeonFlux117 wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

NeonFlux117 wrote...

The Reapers cannot be defeated conventionally.

Sovereign was not beaten conventionally. Shepard got lucky and Sovereign got stupid and over confident in his minion Saren. Simple as that.

Now.... ME3 Reapers are a bit of an enigma. But really, isn't the entire game.

Don't think about things to hard in ME3.

Just go with the flow.

Sounds like people shouldn't be thinking about things too hard across the entire trilogy. 

A lot of it can be classified as enigmatic bullshit designed to move the player along. 

Yes. I agree. And it mostly starts at Ilos. That's when things get cray cray.

Nah, the "cray cray" starts long before that, at the very least with the goofy mental cipher delivered secondhand from a telepathic plant. 

But, pray tell, why Ilos? 

lol Brain Plant is pretty goofy and full of scifi tropes, but it doesn't break any lore or "rules" established in the series. As you must access the beacon to recieve the cipher- and Shepard and Saren do both, The cipher and brain bug don't really break or even bend lore.

But Ilos....

Lets see, where to start.

A mako insertion requires AT LEAST 100 feet to accomplish, yet..... joker and shep do it with 20 feet... Lulz. NO WAY. And I don't buy the whole- "Cause Joker is so good and Shepard is so good, stuff". No. The lore say's 100 feet, joker did it in 20 feet..... 1/5 of the minimum distance needed... Lore break number 1.

So, Ilos is is an incredibly hot world. So hot, that forest fires are rapent. Huge, huge wild fires.

And yet.... There's Shepard and pals derpin' around without helmets, lol. Ilos should be, and is, at least a level 2 hazard. But..... Nope. Lore Break number 2.

Ilos was originally an Inusannon world, then became a Prothean world. So..... Then, explain the human letters and numbers on the archetecutre??? Lore break number 3.

The "conduit" run... Wow. As if the supsension of disbelief wasn't already at "maximum lore breaks"(Say that it the crysis nanosuit voice), with the Mako drop, and no helmets and stuff. Now, not only does the Mako go through the conduit-another relay,  then somehow can link to the presidium relay..... ONE WAY. Lore Break. Then ontop of that. We have, what is said in the very first dialogue by Joker, about DRIFT, specifically being 1500K. Now.... The Mako should, for all intents and purposes, Fly so fast and hard through the presidium relay, through the presidium lake, through the sides of the citadel out into space.... But. Nope Shepard and pals arrive and roll their way out of the Mako, lol. DRIFT.... I guess not. Lore Break number 4 or 5ish.


This continues into ME2 and obviously into ME3. Now, ME2 mixes with lore breaks and obeying the estlished lore of the series. ME3 is more Lore breaks than not.

But it began on Ilos. That's where the lore goes Wacky.

Mass Effect's always had pretty unstable logic and lore.  I agree with that much. 

Are you suggesting that ME3 should have just gone wild with the screwiness and had the galaxy blow the Reapers up conventionally?  Because that's a pretty bold thing to just shrug off, as opposed to little "rule of cool" things that can be halfway justified by stuff previously in the narrative. 

Modifié par dreamgazer, 22 janvier 2014 - 12:02 .

[NeonFlux117]

Yes, Rule Of Cool explains these things. If it's cool then it will be done.

Science fiction lives off the ROC.

Reapers cannot be defeated conventionally. Even ME3's version of Reapers. Not without glassing planets and home-worlds and killing most of the good guys in the process.

Shepard did the best he could really. Look how dumb and full retard the rest of the galaxy was with the reaper threat...

The Geth and Saren attacked the citadel......

Wat!!!

[Dean_the_Young]

AlanC9 wrote...

jamesp81 wrote...
To use antimatter weaponry you have to be able to 1) product the antimatter, 2) contain the anti-matter, and 3) deliver it to target.  The Codex flat out states that the Citadel races already do 1 and 2 (antimatter is used as fuel).  3 wouldn't be that hard to to come by since delivery systems already exist.  Modification of such systems, while not a trivial task, is not terribly difficult either (certainly it wouldn't be as difficult as building a space magic colored beam machine).

There are a lot of ideas like this floating around. The problem with techs that can blow up any ship  regardless of defenses is that if these techs work, space battleships don't work and you ought to organize your fleet around drones, fighters, missile boats, etc. Which is a problem when your series is about space battleships.

The Gundam series has a similar issue, and I think one of the original writers called it 'the Big Lie.'

If you're going to watch giant humanoid battlemechs tear into eachother, you're already throwing physics out the window. Engineering economics soons follows when you wonder why those battle-ship scale beam canons can'tbe put on tanks or planes.

[Zinoviy]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

jamesp81 wrote...
To use antimatter weaponry you have to be able to 1) product the antimatter, 2) contain the anti-matter, and 3) deliver it to target.  The Codex flat out states that the Citadel races already do 1 and 2 (antimatter is used as fuel).  3 wouldn't be that hard to to come by since delivery systems already exist.  Modification of such systems, while not a trivial task, is not terribly difficult either (certainly it wouldn't be as difficult as building a space magic colored beam machine).

There are a lot of ideas like this floating around. The problem with techs that can blow up any ship  regardless of defenses is that if these techs work, space battleships don't work and you ought to organize your fleet around drones, fighters, missile boats, etc. Which is a problem when your series is about space battleships.

The Gundam series has a similar issue, and I think one of the original writers called it 'the Big Lie.'

If you're going to watch giant humanoid battlemechs tear into eachother, you're already throwing physics out the window. Engineering economics soons follows when you wonder why those battle-ship scale beam canons can'tbe put on tanks or planes.

Wait...could we have won conventionally with some of those Gundam things? Is that still conventional?


Oh god. We have a new solution for the solution.

[Mangalores]

iakus wrote...

If there were really 20,000 Sovereign class Reapers and Enkindlers-know how many destroyers running around, the game should have been lost with the opening credits. They could have sent a thousand capital ships to face each race and have plenty of reserves left over. Nothing could have stopped them or even slowed them down.

Essentially the problem of the story (a lot of BW games and also Hollywood. here a nice link concerning the screenwriters problem in Hollywood. Everyone only wants to tell that same generic story).

It's typical stake inflation so any resolution becomes a joke because you need ridiculous contrivances to give the hero a chance against the odds you drummed up all the time.

For me the Reapers should have never entered the galaxy in the first place. You could still have high stakes but their one weak point of ME1 was that they apparently need the Citadel plot to get into the galaxy. If that had been maintained the odds would not be as lopsides because the core conflict would have limited the Reaper's influence to indoctrinated individuals and leftovers of the Collector who need to use their smarts, not their muscle, to somehow manipulate the situation (that also being the more interesting kind of villain).
Would also help Shepard as a Spectre being the main focus instead of being a grunt that's constantly in the way of the people who command the big guns.


As it is it's strange the Reapers even bothered with the Citadel. They have the galaxy by the balls in less than a couple of months without it. The Turians run out of reserves, the Asari are forced into pitched battle, Earth is screwed whatever the ending (must have been billions dead) and the Salarians have fewer ships than the Asari and are the only still unscathed entity

[ImaginaryMatter]

NeonFlux117 wrote...

But Ilos....

Lets see, where to start.

A mako insertion requires AT LEAST 100 feet to accomplish, yet..... joker and shep do it with 20 feet... Lulz. NO WAY. And I don't buy the whole- "Cause Joker is so good and Shepard is so good, stuff". No. The lore say's 100 feet, joker did it in 20 feet..... 1/5 of the minimum distance needed... Lore break number 1.

So, Ilos is is an incredibly hot world. So hot, that forest fires are rapent. Huge, huge wild fires.

And yet.... There's Shepard and pals derpin' around without helmets, lol. Ilos should be, and is, at least a level 2 hazard. But..... Nope. Lore Break number 2.

Ilos was originally an Inusannon world, then became a Prothean world. So..... Then, explain the human letters and numbers on the archetecutre??? Lore break number 3.

The "conduit" run... Wow. As if the supsension of disbelief wasn't already at "maximum lore breaks"(Say that it the crysis nanosuit voice), with the Mako drop, and no helmets and stuff. Now, not only does the Mako go through the conduit-another relay,  then somehow can link to the presidium relay..... ONE WAY. Lore Break. Then ontop of that. We have, what is said in the very first dialogue by Joker, about DRIFT, specifically being 1500K. Now.... The Mako should, for all intents and purposes, Fly so fast and hard through the presidium relay, through the presidium lake, through the sides of the citadel out into space.... But. Nope Shepard and pals arrive and roll their way out of the Mako, lol. DRIFT.... I guess not. Lore Break number 4 or 5ish.


This continues into ME2 and obviously into ME3. Now, ME2 mixes with lore breaks and obeying the estlished lore of the series. ME3 is more Lore breaks than not.

But it began on Ilos. That's where the lore goes Wacky.

A lot of these seem excessively nitpicky, especially considering you're just signalling out Ilos, when really Mass Effect started doing this from the get go.

I don't see how the Mako landing is a lore break, for all we know everyone who was shouting was guestimating or were incorrect, on the fly estimations can be like that. As far as I know there weren't any detailed Mako landing combat drop statistics any where else in the game nor was it conclusively proven that such a thing was possible. In real life every authority said Roger Bannister couldn't run the mile in under four minutes and then being proven wrong in less than four minutes later. If anything this scene is just plain 'ole fassion cheesy.

Also, Ilos is 38 degrees Celcius which is about 100 degrees Fahrenheit which is hot (and extremely unconfortable), but not lethal. The wildfires that cover Ilos are presumed to be caused by lightning strikes in an atmosphere with elevated Oxygen levels (according to the lore). The troubling part isn't the heat it's this elevated Oxygen and Shepard and crew maintaining the same level of fitness in a higher gravity environments. The game has had plenty of these sort of things.

The letters and wording on the planet could be explained by Shepard's
understanding of the Prothean language. His brain translates the spoken
Prothean language into English so it's not too far of a stretch to
consider that he sees the words like this as well, like a sort of
reverse dyslexia. The handwave for how everyone can understand one another and how exactly the Cipher works are in my opinion much more jarring.

I think Joker's 1500 K comment was refering to distance not speed, as when the Codex entry used the word 'drift' when referring to exiting a Relay it is talking about distance. If this is true, the Mako's convenitent placement can be handwaved by it's relatively very low mass creating very little variance in its Conduit exit.

The point is none of these things are game breaking. Ilos's gravity, temperature, atmospheric pressure and composition, etc could easily be changed to more habitable ranges and it wouldn't effect anything. The planet was, afterall, covered in cities, maybe these were simple mistakes or rule of cool moments. However, these infractions are so small and similar errors, or lore breaks, or whatever had already been done previously. The minor inconsistancies plaguing Ilos were nothing new.

[dorktainian]

Ilos.

Where to start. I agree with Neon. Ilos is way...... out there. It flashes by so fast that you need to take a while to analyse what the hell is going on. Lore break after lore break after lore break. Then throw into the mix Vigil and its inpenetrable barrier. Yeah and yet Saren got through it..... Seems legit. Now Vigil tells Shepard and his chums that he must understand the conflict or we will make the same mistakes the protheans did. And then doesnt really elaborate on that statement.

Understanding this and everything thereafter is in my opinion what is needed to beat the reapers conventionally.

Did you understand the Crucible? Did you pass the test?

[AlexMBrennan]

Then throw into the mix Vigil and its inpenetrable barrier. Yeah and yet Saren got through it.

Vigil was trying to attract Shepard's attention (to give him the override codes).

[shodiswe]

Shepards struggle would have been pointless if all it took was X% of the galaxys fleets and soldiers to win.

Then the victory condition would have been, shoot X amount of reaper susk etz and you win. It would have made for a boring adventure.

Conventional victory fits RTS OR Turn based strategy, or counterstke teamfortress type games.

A game like this needs a story element, but I cant say the end game seemed like satisfactory storytelling. Instead it was getting me bored, and the original lacked closure beyond being somewhat boring and repetitive.

Modifié par shodiswe, 22 janvier 2014 - 11:50 .

[Iakus]

Mangalores wrote...

Essentially the problem of the story (a lot of BW games and also Hollywood. here a nice link concerning the screenwriters problem in Hollywood. Everyone only wants to tell that same generic story).

It's typical stake inflation so any resolution becomes a joke because you need ridiculous contrivances to give the hero a chance against the odds you drummed up all the time.

For me the Reapers should have never entered the galaxy in the first place. You could still have high stakes but their one weak point of ME1 was that they apparently need the Citadel plot to get into the galaxy. If that had been maintained the odds would not be as lopsides because the core conflict would have limited the Reaper's influence to indoctrinated individuals and leftovers of the Collector who need to use their smarts, not their muscle, to somehow manipulate the situation (that also being the more interesting kind of villain).
Would also help Shepard as a Spectre being the main focus instead of being a grunt that's constantly in the way of the people who command the big guns.


As it is it's strange the Reapers even bothered with the Citadel. They have the galaxy by the balls in less than a couple of months without it. The Turians run out of reserves, the Asari are forced into pitched battle, Earth is screwed whatever the ending (must have been billions dead) and the Salarians have fewer ships than the Asari and are the only still unscathed entity

This is why I think the Reapers should have "only" been a few mission years old.  And with no destroyer backup.  A few dozen or hundreds of Reapers would still have been an ultimately losing proposition for the galaxy, but a united galaxy could have made a fight of it.  They could have convincingly slowed down teh reapers while Shepard got his space magic on.

But twenty thousand?  and tens of thousands more destroyers?  That just makes the Reapers incompetant that they didn't flatten all opposition in a few weeks.

[GimmeDaGun]

It would be possible if Chuck Norris...

[Almostfaceman]

NeonFlux117 wrote...

lol Brain Plant is pretty goofy and full of scifi tropes, but it doesn't break any lore or "rules" established in the series. As you must access the beacon to recieve the cipher- and Shepard and Saren do both, The cipher and brain bug don't really break or even bend lore.

But Ilos....

Lets see, where to start.

A mako insertion requires AT LEAST 100 feet to accomplish, yet..... joker and shep do it with 20 feet... Lulz. NO WAY. And I don't buy the whole- "Cause Joker is so good and Shepard is so good, stuff". No. The lore say's 100 feet, joker did it in 20 feet..... 1/5 of the minimum distance needed... Lore break number 1.

So, Ilos is is an incredibly hot world. So hot, that forest fires are rapent. Huge, huge wild fires.

And yet.... There's Shepard and pals derpin' around without helmets, lol. Ilos should be, and is, at least a level 2 hazard. But..... Nope. Lore Break number 2.

Ilos was originally an Inusannon world, then became a Prothean world. So..... Then, explain the human letters and numbers on the archetecutre??? Lore break number 3.

The "conduit" run... Wow. As if the supsension of disbelief wasn't already at "maximum lore breaks"(Say that it the crysis nanosuit voice), with the Mako drop, and no helmets and stuff. Now, not only does the Mako go through the conduit-another relay,  then somehow can link to the presidium relay..... ONE WAY. Lore Break. Then ontop of that. We have, what is said in the very first dialogue by Joker, about DRIFT, specifically being 1500K. Now.... The Mako should, for all intents and purposes, Fly so fast and hard through the presidium relay, through the presidium lake, through the sides of the citadel out into space.... But. Nope Shepard and pals arrive and roll their way out of the Mako, lol. DRIFT.... I guess not. Lore Break number 4 or 5ish.


This continues into ME2 and obviously into ME3. Now, ME2 mixes with lore breaks and obeying the estlished lore of the series. ME3 is more Lore breaks than not.

But it began on Ilos. That's where the lore goes Wacky.

Lore? The Mako? First, it's meters, not feet. If you're gonna nit-pick, expect to be nit-picked.  Second, there is no lore about mako drops, it's presented as an Alliance procedure - procedures can be bent if military personnel want to risk their hides bending it. 

If you're going to complain about Ilos and heat (38 Celcius - 100.4 Farenheit), you should compare with Therum, which is 58 degrees celcius on average (136.4 Farenheit) and they're running around with no sealed helmets there as well. Seriously, though that's hot but manageable with the advanced suits. People live in areas that get that hot here on humble little 21st century Earth.

Regarding numbers on buildings on Ilos, I've never seen them. Wherever they are, more than likely they're mistakes (like Admiral Kohoku having the wrong rank on his uniform) and they can be explained by Shep having the cipher and that auto-translates for him. No lore break there.

Then we have the Conduit. Which is a Prothean relay designed to covertly get them into the Citadel. It's a prototype based on relays, which means the rules are not the same as for a "regular" relay. It looks like it follows some rules similiar to the relays, the mako exits the relay at a speed relative to the speed it entered it. Drift looks like it's been tightened tremendously, but that can be explained lore-wise by its specialty design and prototype background. Drift has nothing to do with speed, it's about position relative to the receiving relay. I've seen people complain about the mako being zapped through structures, but that's no big deal to me. There's plenty of potential matter between regular relays and they figure out a way to zap stuff through that as well. 

So no, I don't agree it began on Ilos. 

Modifié par Almostfaceman, 22 janvier 2014 - 03:38 .

[Farangbaa]

Not a lore break, but I've always found it hilarious that the Turian councilor says:

"This evidence is irrefutable!"

Really? The extracted memory core of a geth, made by Quarians, extracted by a Quarian, is irrefutable?

ARE YOU HIGH?

[Almostfaceman]

Psychevore wrote...

Not a lore break, but I've always found it hilarious that the Turian councilor says:

"This evidence is irrefutable!"

Really? The extracted memory core of a geth, made by Quarians, extracted by a Quarian, is irrefutable?

ARE YOU HIGH?

I always found it curious they'd discount the eye witness. I mean, this guy is on some farm planet that Saren has no business ever being on, why would the guy make up something like that? Just the sheer odds of that dude being some part of an elaborate plot to frame Saren - yeah it doesn't add up.

Maybe the Quarians had credibility because they designed the geth, but it's not explained very well.