142 réponses à ce sujet

[Augustei]

thats1evildude wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

None of the many Keepers over hte course of hunderds fo years knew how to remove the taint, the magisters don't know how to remove the taint -  but Merril does???

She removed it from an object, not a person. And she was instructed in doing so by a demon that had been trapped on the mortal plane since the fall of Arlathan.

The taint is completely alien to demons which is why Avernus used it against the ones in Soldier's Peak.

[GreyLycanTrope]

The Hierophant wrote...

Greylycantrope wrote...

@Hierophant
It's not like Fenris pulls his punches with Anders or other mages much either. Don't get me wrong I do feel Anders is often hypocrictical, I just don't feel that exchange is a particualy good example of it.

True but Anders making light of slavery when he compares circle mages to slaves is still off putting.

Sure, it can I just find Fenris's comments equally off putting so in that context I tend not to judge Anders too harshly when he gets his own remark in, that's just my perspective though.

[The Hierophant]

Rassler wrote...

What is so hard to get I don't understand. If you take Fenris to the gallows for the 1st time and Anders is with you too they will fight. Anders will say that its slavery to lock up mages while Fenris approves that mages should be locked up. So Anders want to inflict slavery on Fenris for approving of circles and in his opinion slavery of mages. I'm not saying its justified, but this is probably the main reason Anders approves of selling Fenris to Danarius. Fenris is hypocrite for wanting to be free of slavery but wanting it or at least something very similar for other people (mages). Anders is also a hypocrite for approving of making Fenris a slave again but he is doing it in regard to Fenris' open approval of circle and Meredith's methods. Anders is not sellin Fenris, he is having an opinion on the matter. Its you who is selling Fenris to Slavery.

How does this counter hhh89's point when you call Anders a hypocrite for approving of Fenris being reenslaved.

[Lulupab]

The Hierophant wrote...

Rassler wrote...

What is so hard to get I don't understand. If you take Fenris to the gallows for the 1st time and Anders is with you too they will fight. Anders will say that its slavery to lock up mages while Fenris approves that mages should be locked up. So Anders want to inflict slavery on Fenris for approving of circles and in his opinion slavery of mages. I'm not saying its justified, but this is probably the main reason Anders approves of selling Fenris to Danarius. Fenris is hypocrite for wanting to be free of slavery but wanting it or at least something very similar for other people (mages). Anders is also a hypocrite for approving of making Fenris a slave again but he is doing it in regard to Fenris' open approval of circle and Meredith's methods. Anders is not sellin Fenris, he is having an opinion on the matter. Its you who is selling Fenris to Slavery.

How does this counter hhh89's point when you call Anders a hypocrite for approving of Fenris being reenslaved.

It was not "counter" to anything. I just explained why Anders hate him. If the story which you seem to like alot about Anders is true then Anders can turn Fenris to blood and bone in a wave of a finger. He hates Fenris, he really does. Fenris openly approves of Meredith's methods and also approves that all mages should be locked up in a building used to harbor slaves. So in short Fenris approves of slavery of mages, and I don't mean normal circles I mean Meredith's methods and kirkwall cricle, while Anders only approves of slavery of one person, Fenris. Would you rather Anders kill Fenris outright? As I said I'm not justifying what Anders did, I'm saying why he did it and frankly it depends on what side you take, Fenris indeed provoked Anders.

[AresKeith]

Rassler wrote...

The Hierophant wrote...

Rassler wrote...

What is so hard to get I don't understand. If you take Fenris to the gallows for the 1st time and Anders is with you too they will fight. Anders will say that its slavery to lock up mages while Fenris approves that mages should be locked up. So Anders want to inflict slavery on Fenris for approving of circles and in his opinion slavery of mages. I'm not saying its justified, but this is probably the main reason Anders approves of selling Fenris to Danarius. Fenris is hypocrite for wanting to be free of slavery but wanting it or at least something very similar for other people (mages). Anders is also a hypocrite for approving of making Fenris a slave again but he is doing it in regard to Fenris' open approval of circle and Meredith's methods. Anders is not sellin Fenris, he is having an opinion on the matter. Its you who is selling Fenris to Slavery.

How does this counter hhh89's point when you call Anders a hypocrite for approving of Fenris being reenslaved.

It was not "counter" to anything. I just explained why Anders hate him. If the story which you seem to like alot about Anders is true then Anders can turn Fenris to blood and bone in a wave of a finger. He hates Fenris, he really does. Fenris openly approves of Meredith's methods and also approves that all mages should be locked up in a building used to harbor slaves. So in short Fenris approves of slavery of mages, and I don't mean normal circles I mean Meredith's methods and kirkwall cricle, while Anders only approves of slavery of one person, Fenris. Would you rather Anders kill Fenris outright? As I said I'm not justifying what Anders did, I'm saying why he did it and frankly it depends on what side you take, Fenris indeed provoked Anders.

And I'm pretty sure hhh89 considers Fenris a hypocrite also

[thats1evildude]

XxDeonxX wrote...

The taint is completely alien to demons which is why Avernus used it against the ones in Soldier's Peak.

Avernus didn't use s**t. He tried to devise a weapon using the darkspawn corruption, but he largely failed. Had he succeeded, he could have cleared the demons from Solider's Peak years before.

At any rate, Hybris had been trapped in the mortal world for centuries. He had knowledge beyond that of most demons.

Modifié par thats1evildude, 20 janvier 2014 - 07:57 .

[GreyLycanTrope]

Fenris and Anders are the personification of the Mage Templar debate surrounding DA2, they're set as polar opposites and they both reek of hypocrisy for that very reason.

Now if you'll excuse me I'll be seeing myself off as this DA:I thread has onces again turned Mage/Templar.

Modifié par Greylycantrope, 20 janvier 2014 - 07:56 .

[Hellion Rex]

thats1evildude wrote...

XxDeonxX wrote...

The taint is completely alien to demons which is why Avernus used it against the ones in Soldier's Peak.

Avernus didn't use s**t. He tried to devise a weapon using the darkspawn corruption, but he largely failed. Had he succeeded, he could have cleared the demons from Solider's Peak years before.

At any rate, Hybris had been trapped in the mortal world for centuries. He had knowledge beyond that of most demons.

Wait...Hybris or Audacity?

[Mr.House]

Greylycantrope wrote...

hhh89 wrote...
It doesn't matter if Fenris and Anders hate each other, or Fenris is anti-mage. Anders is clearly anti-slavery. Supporting the selling of a person to a slaver is hypocricy, in my opinion.

Only if he's actually serious and not just talking sh*t though.

You do know you're speaking about Anders right?

[The Elder King]

Greylycantrope wrote...

Fenris and Anders are the personification of the Mage Templar debate surrounding DA2, they're set as polar opposites and they both reek of hypocrisy for that very reason.

Now if you'll excuse me I'll be seeing myself off as this DA:I thread has onces again turned Mage/Templar.

My point isn't to claim that one is better of the other: it was to clarify that Anders is an hypocrite. 
@Rassler: I don't get why you have to explain the reason behind Anders's support. I know why he agreed on selling Fenris. My point was that he's an hypocrite in supporting selling Fenris (which was the only point I made in the last post you quoted). You always said that Anders wasn't an hypocrite (though you maybe were referring to other things): if you think that Anders was an hypocrite than we agree.

[TK514]

I find it amusing that you can't mention Anders in any context without Rassler showing up to White Knight him and derail the thread.

[Hellion Rex]

TK514 wrote...

I find it amusing that you can't mention Anders in any context without Rassler showing up to White Knight him and derail the thread.

Almost like David and heroism.

[Lulupab]

 

hhh89 wrote...

Greylycantrope wrote...

Fenris and Anders are the personification of the Mage Templar debate surrounding DA2, they're set as polar opposites and they both reek of hypocrisy for that very reason.

Now if you'll excuse me I'll be seeing myself off as this DA:I thread has onces again turned Mage/Templar.

My point isn't to claim that one is better of the other: it was to clarify that Anders is an hypocrite. 
@Rassler: I don't get why you have to explain the reason behind Anders's support. I know why he agreed on selling Fenris. My point was that he's an hypocrite in supporting selling Fenris (which was the only point I made in the last post you quoted). You always said that Anders wasn't an hypocrite (though you maybe were referring to other things): if you think that Anders was an hypocrite than we agree.

I said he wasn't always a hypocrite. Sometimes like in this case he was indeed one. One act doesn't make one a hypocrite. He claims he is bringing Justice and when he kills people he is ready to die for his crime because he thinks people died in chantry deserve Justice as well. A hypocrite would never do such a thing. Also lets not forget that Anders is only having an opinion. Its you who is selling Fenris not him.

[Lulupab]

 

TK514 wrote...

I find it amusing that you can't mention Anders in any context without Rassler showing up to White Knight him and derail the thread.

I find it more amusing that you tend to bring him into every conversation. I pretty much always confirm Anders' faults, can't see where this "white knight" thing is coming from. He is a gray character and I like him.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

I may despise Anders but even I can see the argument for him being a morally grey character. Even if he totally is a massive hypocrite.

Modifié par Jedi Master of Orion, 20 janvier 2014 - 09:00 .

[dragonflight288]

eluvianix wrote...

TK514 wrote...

I find it amusing that you can't mention Anders in any context without Rassler showing up to White Knight him and derail the thread.

Almost like David and heroism.

what about Goliath? 

[Iron Fist]

How many other elven mage Grey Wardens do we know about? 
Maybe she "rediscovered" the ancient elven immortality. 

[The Elder King]

@Rassler: I didn't mean that he was an hypocrite in all the things he said. At least we've understood each other.
As for Anders only supporting the player, I don't see the relevance. For being an hypocrite you don't need to make an action. If a Hawke is against slavery and he/she sold Fenris, he/she's an hypocrite too.

[AresKeith]

eluvianix wrote...

TK514 wrote...

I find it amusing that you can't mention Anders in any context without Rassler showing up to White Knight him and derail the thread.

Almost like David and heroism.

gives Lord Raijin a run for his money

[thats1evildude]

eluvianix wrote...

thats1evildude wrote...

XxDeonxX wrote...

The taint is completely alien to demons which is why Avernus used it against the ones in Soldier's Peak.

Avernus didn't use s**t. He tried to devise a weapon using the darkspawn corruption, but he largely failed. Had he succeeded, he could have cleared the demons from Solider's Peak years before.

At any rate, Hybris had been trapped in the mortal world for centuries. He had knowledge beyond that of most demons.

Wait...Hybris or Audacity?

Right, Audacity. I get my pride demons mixed up.

[TK514]

Rassler wrote...

 

TK514 wrote...

I find it amusing that you can't mention Anders in any context without Rassler showing up to White Knight him and derail the thread.

I find it more amusing that you tend to bring him into every conversation. I pretty much always confirm Anders' faults, can't see where this "white knight" thing is coming from. He is a gray character and I like him.

Please, find me these conversations where I've been the one to bring up Anders.

[Lotion Soronarr]

thats1evildude wrote...

XxDeonxX wrote...

The taint is completely alien to demons which is why Avernus used it against the ones in Soldier's Peak.

Avernus didn't use s**t. He tried to devise a weapon using the darkspawn corruption, but he largely failed. Had he succeeded, he could have cleared the demons from Solider's Peak years before.

At any rate, Hybris had been trapped in the mortal world for centuries. He had knowledge beyond that of most demons.

"No knowledge is lost in the fade".

I'm sorry, I don't buy that explanation.
There has been blood magic and demon interactio nfor thousands of years, and you're still trying to tell me no one except that one single demon knew how to clear the taint?
And it just so happens, then in the span of a decade or two, many unlikely, never before seen events happen (anvil found, tranqulity cured, method to remove taint, red lyrium, etc...)

Meh...

[Rotward]

Whossatnow?

[Iron Fist]

Rotward wrote...

Whossatnow?

What?

[Rotward]

MevenSelas wrote...

Rotward wrote...

Whossatnow?

What?

That's my line...