113 réponses à ce sujet

[javeart]

Grizzly46 wrote...

Well... Looks IS an important part of attraction, since that's the first we get to know about another person, and we never get a second chance to give a first impression.

I was thinking in attraction in a wider sense (I do find fshep's human LIs phisically atractive, is their personalities what I dont' find atractive), but if we think only of physical attraction, then is even more difficul to understand the success of Garrus as LI.

But maybe the difference is just there... I'm not very fond of the rather simplistic notion that physical attraction is less important for women who might pay more attention to personality and such, but, simplistic or not (as a generalization, of course) it may be the answer to what Lagoona is asking 

It'd be a little bit disapppointing answer, tough, and, anyway, I think there's a limit for what can be considered a viable romance, no matter how smart, funny, powerfull, or whatever, the character in question is, but that limit (Garrus proves it) it's not physical attraction

[Ieldra]

@OP:
Interspecies sex is silly. More specifically, portraying aliens as if they could plausibly be physically attractive to humans is silly. Physical attraction is extremely species-specific for a reason. I highly suspect a human, as a rule, wouldn't want to have sex with a chimpanzee even if it was intelligent, and these are about as close to humans, in genetics, as possible without actually being the same species.

I usually overlook the standard insanity over everything related to sex displayed by almost everyone, but I certainly don't want more of it. I'd rather have a selection of more than one human LI.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 21 janvier 2014 - 02:38 .

[cap and gown]

Ieldra2 wrote...

 More specifically, portraying aliens as if they could plausibly be physically attractive to humans is silly.

Oh, come on. Who doesn't want blue alien space babes?

[crimzontearz]

Sorry I am not appealed to by Turians and I have yet to see a female drell




So Asari it is for this guy

[javeart]

LagoonaLahaana wrote...

Not the male players themselves, but may be how BW views it. In other words, some of the male player base may be fine with personality over looks, some of the female player base looks over personality (Victus is way hotter looking than Garrus BTW) but does BW perceive it that way. Is that why Turians and Drell are only for females, why Tali has a human face.

The thing is, for what I'm seeing in this thread, bioware seems to be right: it looks like most of them need to find the character atractive to give it a chance to a romance arc, and specifically physically atractive...

[Ieldra]

cap and gown wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

 More specifically, portraying aliens as if they could plausibly be physically attractive to humans is silly.

Oh, come on. Who doesn't want blue alien space babes?

Everyone who gives a crap about the plausibility of an SF universe.

The asari would be acceptable if they had human ancestors, abducted from Earth by aliens some ten thousand years ago. But as an independently-evolved species they are ridiculous.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 21 janvier 2014 - 03:05 .

[Everyone Is Someone]

I think it's interesting in Baldur's Gate, Dragon Age, and Mass Effect the romanceable non-humans are always the most conventionally aesthetic. Viconia, Jaheira, Aerie, Zevran, Merril, Liara, Tali, etc. Where are the romanceable dwarves, halflings, half-orcs, qunari, krogan, volus, etc.?

I guess the closest romanceable "ugly" person is Garrus, which I just think means Bioware should push things further. Is video game romance about getting it on with elves and space babes, or is it about the story that happens to your character?

[spirosz]

Sure, if it works within the story.

[Stalker]

Ieldra2 wrote...

@OP:
Interspecies sex is silly. More specifically, portraying aliens as if they could plausibly be physically attractive to humans is silly. Physical attraction is extremely species-specific for a reason. I highly suspect a human, as a rule, wouldn't want to have sex with a chimpanzee even if it was intelligent, and these are about as close to humans, in genetics, as possible without actually being the same species.

I usually overlook the standard insanity over everything related to sex displayed by almost everyone, but I certainly don't want more of it. I'd rather have a selection of more than one human LI.

Don't really see your point here.
Many aliens in the ME universe have the exact bodyparts that humans usually find attractive on their prefered gender (humanoid with boobs, butt, muscularity, clean skin...). It's perfectly normal for people to want sex with them. 

Modifié par Mr Massakka, 21 janvier 2014 - 03:57 .

[spirosz]

Ieldra2 wrote...

@OP:
Interspecies sex is silly. More specifically, portraying aliens as if they could plausibly be physically attractive to humans is silly. Physical attraction is extremely species-specific for a reason. I highly suspect a human, as a rule, wouldn't want to have sex with a chimpanzee even if it was intelligent, and these are about as close to humans, in genetics, as possible without actually being the same species.

I usually overlook the standard insanity over everything related to sex displayed by almost everyone, but I certainly don't want more of it. I'd rather have a selection of more than one human LI.

You're silly.

In relation to the Mass Effect universe, not ours - it's very plausible and will be more likely than you seem to think.  The fact that most of the Aliens we've encountered in the universe have so many similarities, it's not as far-fetched and it's not "silly".  If you prefer the human LI preference, that is fine - but I can say the exact same thing and call it silly, if deemed necessary.

It helps too that most of the species were seen as "advanced" and all developed around similar time periods, so that can again - lead to it being a more common ground between each species.  

Modifié par spirosz, 21 janvier 2014 - 04:11 .

[Mangalores]

I actually want more characters uninterested in romancing the protagonist. In a way Kasumi being all over Jacob or you finding Tali and Garrus nearly kissing enirches the universe more since you get the sense there is a living universe with more than your cardbox avatar in it.

Probably the one thing ME3 did best in the trilogy and they should build on more.

I really liked playing wingman to Garrus, again because it enriched the universe that there was life outside the inner circle of your crew and why should a Turian not be more interested in his species than all others. Precious few others have talons, crests and scales in the right places to be considered attractive by him.


I can't say I find romances compelling in most epic heroic tales be it Bioware or Hollywood. Usually it doesn't make much sense but just happens because "he's the protagonist."


In a way restricting it more to only Asari makes more sense. They have an in universe canon excuse why they are interested in interspecies relationships. It's their stick. By making it available to everyone you devalued your own approach of creating science fiction with a certain acknowledgement of science and at least providing a handwave when breaking your own rules or "hard" science.

Most of the ME canon dissuades romance options by pointing at all the bad stuff that can happen and how aliens are very alien so even similar looking ones are extremely different. It was really fan service to change that in ME2 and ME3 and ignore your own Codex.

Modifié par Mangalores, 21 janvier 2014 - 04:27 .

[Ieldra]

Mr Massakka wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

@OP:
Interspecies sex is silly. More specifically, portraying aliens as if they could plausibly be physically attractive to humans is silly. Physical attraction is extremely species-specific for a reason. I highly suspect a human, as a rule, wouldn't want to have sex with a chimpanzee even if it was intelligent, and these are about as close to humans, in genetics, as possible without actually being the same species.

I usually overlook the standard insanity over everything related to sex displayed by almost everyone, but I certainly don't want more of it. I'd rather have a selection of more than one human LI.

Don't really see your point here.
Many aliens in the ME universe have the exact bodyparts that humans usually find attractive on their prefered gender (humanoid with boobs, butt, muscularity, clean skin...). It's perfectly normal for people to want sex with them. 

*Sigh* I probably shouldn't have said anything. People never understand. But to clarify:

What is ridiculously implausible is exactly the fact that species unrelated to humans have human-compatible triggers for sexual attraction. There isn't anything more species-specific than this in biology, and not even our closest biological relatives have it.

As an example, imagine how differently we would perceive the asari or quarian females if their breasts were positioned 50cm lower, or their body shapes did otherwise deviate from the exact shape of a human woman, like inverting the hip/waist ratio. Infinitesimal and functionally completely irrelevant changes in fact, yet so very significant when it comes to physical attraction. The ME universe is beyond even the remotest credibility in this.

Edit:
Actually IMO the developers know this was silly and didn't care, and they were right since so many players don't care either, but for me this kind of biological nonsense is an unacceptable kind of artistic license, and even more so since it's completely gratuitous and irrelevant to the plot.

Edit2:
I am somewhat of a worldbuilder by calling, and I have this principle that you don't compromise the plausbility of a fictional world for something irrelevant to the story. That's why the equally silly explanation for FTL passes the radar, since we couldn't have the story we have without it, and I only complain about the fact that the rationalization doesn't even make sense in the MEU's own terms.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 21 janvier 2014 - 04:46 .

[Han Shot First]

Ieldra2 wrote...

cap and gown wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

 More specifically, portraying aliens as if they could plausibly be physically attractive to humans is silly.

Oh, come on. Who doesn't want blue alien space babes?

Everyone who gives a crap about the plausibility of an SF universe.

The asari would be acceptable if they had human ancestors, abducted from Earth by aliens some ten thousand years ago. But as an independently-evolved species they are ridiculous.

I just head canon that the human-shaped aliens evolved in similar conditions and occupied a similar niche in their native ecosystems. We look the way we do because our ancestors were persistence hunters who survived by running down their prey until it collapsed from exhaustion. We tend to think of ourselves as weak in comparison to other apex predators, when in fact humans are perfectly designed by nature for persistence hunting. Some species might be stronger or larger or have sharp claws or fangs, but none can match humanity for sheer endurance.

I would imagine that species like the Asari or the Drell also would have been persistence hunters in their past, otherwise they wouldn't look the way they do. I just chalk up their similar body shape to being examples of convergent evolution.

[cap and gown]

Blue alien space babes are hot whether in ME or Avatar. It is apparently a Scifi convention.

[Stalker]

Ieldra2 wrote...
*Sigh* I probably shouldn't have said anything. People never understand. But to clarify:

What is ridiculously implausible is exactly the fact that species unrelated to humans have human-compatible triggers for sexual attraction. There isn't anything more species-specific than this in biology, and not even our closest biological relatives have it.

As an example, imagine how differently we would perceive the asari or quarian females if their breasts were positioned 50cm lower, or their body shapes did otherwise deviate from the exact shape of a human woman, like inverting the hip/waist ratio. Infinitesimal and functionally completely irrelevant changes in fact, yet so very significant when it comes to physical attraction. The ME universe is beyond even the remotest credibility in this.

Edit:
Actually IMO the developers know this was silly and didn't care, and they were right since so many players don't care either, but for me this kind of biological nonsense is an unacceptable kind of artistic license, and even more so since it's completely gratuitous and irrelevant to the plot.

Edit2:
I am somewhat of a worldbuilder by calling, and I have this principle that you don't compromise the plausbility of a fictional world for something irrelevant to the story. That's why the equally silly explanation for FTL passes the radar, since we couldn't have the story we have without it, and I only complain about the fact that the rationalization doesn't even make sense in the MEU's own terms.

Well, now I see it. Perhaps you shouldn't have phrased it in a way that basically said "being attracted to ME aliens is silly" 

Though I partly still disagree:
1. Those bodyparts can be developed by chance. It's not exactly contradicting facts that one intelligent alien species has similar triggers than humans. It may be unlikely, but it's there.  I can go with it.
2. It's not like the designers "didn't care". It's a BioWare game and people expect romances. I can't imagine how dissappointed the fanbase would have been if the big sci-fi BioWare game only came up with species that are completely unattractive for the player. Many BioWare fans want "alien" romances and they got it.

Modifié par Mr Massakka, 21 janvier 2014 - 05:41 .

[Han Shot First]

Humanoid aliens are a Sci Fi staple.

Mass Effect isn't unique in that regard. 

[AlanC9]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Everyone who gives a crap about the plausibility of an SF universe.

The asari would be acceptable if they had human ancestors, abducted from Earth by aliens some ten thousand years ago. But as an independently-evolved species they are ridiculous.

One of the devs once said something to the effect that they could always handwave stuff like this away by saying "the Protheans did it." Or in this case, some pre-Prothean cycle. Though it's hard to believe that a genetic link between humans and asari wouldn't have come up at some point.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

No thanks, I'll stick to human ladies.

[von uber]

The thing people forget is that this is a game and supposed to be fun. I know there is the whole 'games as art' schtick but in the end if this game wasn't to some extent a power fantasy where you get to shag the alien a la captain kirk then it wouldn't be half as popular, bioaware wouldn't make it as it would not turn a big enough profit given the production costs and I wouldn't get told off by by gf for perving over blue aliens.

[Reorte]

Han Shot First wrote...

Humanoid aliens are a Sci Fi staple.

Mass Effect isn't unique in that regard. 

Mostly because we've not got a clue what a plausible alternative is, and at least when it comes to TV and film SF it's far cheaper and easier to stick a human in a costume and glue some bumps on the head. That carries on to games to a certain extent, e.g. Mass Effect doesn't need separate animations for humans, asari, quarians, turians, etc.

[Ieldra]

Han Shot First wrote...
Humanoid aliens are a Sci Fi staple.

Mass Effect isn't unique in that regard. 

Being not unique doesn't make it better. It rather makes the other stuff just as bad. Though I don't have a major issue with humanoid aliens as such (meaning upright-walking on two legs, two arms, elongated body shape suited for long-distance running, sensory equipment on a head at the top and near the brain), I just find it unimaginative. The humanoid shape might just turn out as one which is evolutionary preferred on many worlds after all. The real problem lies in the human-compatible triggers for sexual attraction. That's so astronomically implausible that putting it into a story without a really good explanation immediately lets the story go from "hard" to "super-soft" just for that alone.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 21 janvier 2014 - 08:35 .

[jamesp81]

LagoonaLahaana wrote...

GreatBlueHeron wrote...

Male players aren't the only ones who choose female romance options, OP.

My title (for male players) is confusing; I want male player opinions. What I want to know is if male players are alright with a female alien (non-human looking) as a romance.

I don't have a problem with it.  It's likely that I wouldn't choose that romance personally (I feel that a relationship works best if there is some physical attraction between the two, and Hanar just don't do it for me), but then again, much will depend on the writing of the character in question.

Perfect example: though I don't tend to play femsheps, I can't really see her with anyone other than Garrus.

Modifié par jamesp81, 21 janvier 2014 - 08:36 .