356 réponses à ce sujet

[TheViper8234]

FOR LOVE OF GOD stop .. This fanbase gaves me cancer

[Kel Riever]

dreamgazer wrote...

Kel Riever wrote...

@RedBelle. Dreamgazer is just trolling me about the ending which he knows is atrocious and yet he likes it

You know I just trolling you back, D

Well, you know I have my own issues with the ending and that I like and dislike elements of it, but I'm curious about how you (and others) feel towards the author's rigid morality structure in this new ending, where basically everyone with a score of 84% Paragon or lower gets shafted.  That's much, much worse than what was delivered.   CidShep, MelisandreShep, and LisbethShep find this to be a bloody joke. 

People gripe about not being able to RP their Shepards in the decision chamber (which is inaccurate), but this is on another level altogether. 

Ah, I like talking to you because you actually think through your points.  Rather than posting SHEPARD NEEDS BETTER FANS (The irony of someone posting that makes me laugh every time).  I would dare say that while the author was shutting down choices, that the ending provided made my renegade and paragon choices not matter either.  It may be messed up to say but they are on equal grounds for bad to me.

But sure, if you want me to say that I think there is an even better solution, HELLYEA!

[Cainhurst Crow]

Why should I show any respect for what this posts has done again? I see a lot of people saying because of passion or some crap that just means "respect my specialness" by all the supporters and Isimply say no I dont need to rrespect it at all.

If I wrote a 400 page anything about hat thieves, or office hygiene protocols, nobody would be crawling out of the woodwork saying "respect this mans work cause hes got passion". Half you guys doing the defending here would probably be trolling the craps out of my work, the other half wouldn't care.

And the funny thing is, in terms of both relevance and importance, this guys work is exactly on par with hat thief fanfiction.

[spirosz]

TheViper8234 wrote...

FOR LOVE OF GOD stop .. This fanbase gaves me cancer

Because? 

[AlanC9]

dreamgazer wrote...
Well, you know I have my own issues with the ending and that I like and dislike elements of it, but I'm curious about how you (and others) feel towards the author's rigid morality structure in this new ending, where basically everyone with a score of 84% Paragon or lower gets shafted.  That's much, much worse than what was delivered.   CidShep, MelisandreShep, and LisbethShep find this to be a bloody joke. 

Like I said upthread, it makes a kind of sense if you grant the -- crazy -- premises that Paragon=Good, Renegade=Evil, and that the final choices shouldn't be choices since they should just recapitulate the alignment you're already playing. Still not sure how his handling of Synthesis fits in, though. It's pretty clear that he didn't have a good grasp of this, just as he didn't have a good grasp of the Catalyst, though the latter isn't important since he just wrote it out.

Modifié par AlanC9, 22 janvier 2014 - 04:45 .

[Chashan]

Darth Brotarian wrote...

Why should I show any respect for what this posts has done again? I see a lot of people saying because of passion or some crap that just means "respect my specialness" by all the supporters and Isimply say no I dont need to rrespect it at all.

If I wrote a 400 page anything about hat thieves, or office hygiene protocols, nobody would be crawling out of the woodwork saying "respect this mans work cause hes got passion". Half you guys doing the defending here would probably be trolling the craps out of my work, the other half wouldn't care.

And the funny thing is, in terms of both relevance and importance, this guys work is exactly on par with hat thief fanfiction.

One is always free to do just that.

[spirosz]

Darth Brotarian wrote...

Why should I show any respect for what this posts has done again? I see a lot of people saying because of passion or some crap that just means "respect my specialness" by all the supporters and Isimply say no I dont need to rrespect it at all.

If I wrote a 400 page anything about hat thieves, or office hygiene protocols, nobody would be crawling out of the woodwork saying "respect this mans work cause hes got passion". Half you guys doing the defending here would probably be trolling the craps out of my work, the other half wouldn't care.

And the funny thing is, in terms of both relevance and importance, this guys work is exactly on par with hat thief fanfiction.

No one has stated or at least I haven't noticed the respect term being thrown around, but this whole thing could be seen as a form of self healing for the writers part, so for that I applaud him, if that is what the end result has become.  

[Cainhurst Crow]

spirosz wrote...

Darth Brotarian wrote...

Why should I show any respect for what this posts has done again? I see a lot of people saying because of passion or some crap that just means "respect my specialness" by all the supporters and Isimply say no I dont need to rrespect it at all.

If I wrote a 400 page anything about hat thieves, or office hygiene protocols, nobody would be crawling out of the woodwork saying "respect this mans work cause hes got passion". Half you guys doing the defending here would probably be trolling the craps out of my work, the other half wouldn't care.

And the funny thing is, in terms of both relevance and importance, this guys work is exactly on par with hat thief fanfiction.

No one has stated or at least I haven't noticed the respect term being thrown around, but this whole thing could be seen as a form of self healing for the writers part, so for that I applaud him, if that is what the end result has become.  

Lame duck should have just taken some heroin like the rest of us working stiffs. Mixed it with zannies and shot them in the eyeball like a normal person. Indtead of writing, like a hooligan would.

Modifié par Darth Brotarian, 22 janvier 2014 - 05:01 .

[Redbelle]

AlanC9 wrote...

Redbelle wrote...
I hope that BioWare
do not forget this distinction as it listens to gamers talk of
doing away with the morality system. For all it's faults it allows you
to define who your Shepard is in a way that other games never bother to
consider in favour of wham bam thank you maam spectacle.

Morality allowed gamers to turn their builds of Shepard into variations of the same build.

I could take 4d6 and roll up a Rogue, copy the character sheet, then give it to another. What you then get is two completely different Rogues played differently as the two players apply different ethics to how the rogue goes about it's function. You take a game character like Dante, or Snake....... Those character's are locked in stone. The player has no say in who they are. Only how well they do what they do."

How does a morality system help with this? Most good PnP systems don't have one.

To answer this question I ask, whose morality are we using as the base line?

Gamers seem to think they ought to be the base line for deciding if actions and words are good or bad...... but doesn't morality stem largely from society?

What is right and wrong is a learned behavour after all, with some exceptions to cater for personal experiences and tastes. But by and large, as an overarching simplification, lets say that those around us who judge us decide right and wrong and we learn to follow suit.

If we take this example, then the morality system is little more than an extention of the wider galactic universe in ME.

Certainly, ME's morality system is simplified. Individuals don't like you more or less for what you do, unlike the system in KOTORII where bad actions in front of good people would result in that individual liking you more, to the point of opening up more of their past history. In ME, the morality system is widened to encompass all as having the same moral compass, who then choose to live by it, or ignore it.

Thus, Paragon and Renegade was born. Paragon, as in, living by a moral compass everyone knows and is aware of. And Renegade, as in does not go with the general flow.

This, on top of backstory, class, gender and facial features all comes together to create a unique character that becomes our own.

Morality could use a tweak, but losing it takes away from the gamer in helping to flesh out who their character is.

After all, one of the things BW is well known for is character creation. Removing character creation options that are ongoing throughout the game lessens our connction to the character by removing consequence from our choices. The consequence being..... who do I want this character to be?

[CronoDragoon]

spirosz wrote...
No one has stated or at least I haven't noticed the respect term being thrown around, but this whole thing could be seen as a form of self healing for the writers part, so for that I applaud him, if that is what the end result has become. 

I'd agree with you if it wasn't for the vitriol he displays towards BioWare. Strikes me more as vindictive wanking than a healing process. More Death Note than Antonio Banderas.

Modifié par CronoDragoon, 22 janvier 2014 - 05:15 .

[GimmeDaGun]

Mass effect fans are so mass effect fans. That's all I got to say about this topic. I think I remained civil and totally constructive.

Punchline: I think this thread is going down the road of becoming another generic ending thread and fan vs. fan \\ fans vs. Bioware debate while this poor guy wrote like 400 pages and no one comments on that anymore.

Modifié par GimmeDaGun, 22 janvier 2014 - 05:32 .

[AlanC9]

Redbelle wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...
How does a morality system help with this? Most good PnP systems don't have one.

To answer this question I ask, whose morality are we using as the base line?

Sure, "morality" is a social construct. But none of this

Certainly, ME's morality system is simplified. Individuals don't like you more or less for what you do, unlike the system in KOTORII where bad actions in front of good people would result in that individual liking you more, to the point of opening up more of their past history. In ME, the morality system is widened to encompass all as having the same moral compass, who then choose to live by it, or ignore it.

Thus, Paragon and Renegade was born. Paragon, as in, living by a moral compass everyone knows and is aware of. And Renegade, as in does not go with the general flow.

This, on top of backstory, class, gender and facial features all comes together to create a unique character that becomes our own.

Morality could use a tweak, but losing it takes away from the gamer in helping to flesh out who their character is.

After all, one of the things BW is well known for is character creation. Removing character creation options that are ongoing throughout the game lessens our connction to the character by removing consequence from our choices. The consequence being..... who do I want this character to be?

...explains what good having a meter does. What does having a meter help you with? Do you actually need the meter to define your characters? I don't find that having one helps. At best  -- like in most of ME1 or ME3 -- it's irrelevant, at worst  -- like ME2's persuasion system -- it's actively harmful.

Note that some of the better PnP systems do score your PC's psychology --GURPS, for isntance, has Mental Disadvantages, Duties, etc. But these methods are PC-based rather than society-based.

Modifié par AlanC9, 22 janvier 2014 - 05:49 .

[Wayning_Star]

actually, I've ran the game story over in my over taxed brain, probably rewrote a few things there for my own amusement, but there's no way to actually write the story as it'd be far too gory for real time and the notions of all that/those "ethics" of old earth existing in that future with aliens and alternate universal "stuff" going on. I'd guess it would make a very interesting movie, if not impossible to actually do it, all things considered. Kind of reminds me of that man'o steel movie and the one whit the big blue human who crafted "us". What a grouch..lol

[AlanC9]

GimmeDaGun wrote...

Punchline: I think this thread is going down the road of becoming another generic ending thread and fan vs. fan fans vs. Bioware debate while this poor guy wrote like 400 pages and no one comments on that anymore.

Well, the more you read, the more you find out there's no there there.

Though honestly, reading someone seriously argue that:

Overall, the notion of Synthesis is very anticlimactic.

.. makes the whole exercise worthwhile.

[GimmeDaGun]

AlanC9 wrote...

GimmeDaGun wrote...

Punchline: I think this thread is going down the road of becoming another generic ending thread and fan vs. fan fans vs. Bioware debate while this poor guy wrote like 400 pages and no one comments on that anymore.

Well, the more you read, the more you find out there's no there there.

Though honestly, reading someone seriously argue that:

Overall, the notion of Synthesis is very anticlimactic.

.. makes the whole exercise worthwhile.

I did not say that I like it (I don't), I just say that it seems that the thread went totally off-topic... and took the usual "unexpected" turn and became another "ending" thread. 

The guy did not only rewrite the ending... even if that was the fuel behind his ridiculously long fan-fic creation.

[CronoDragoon]

AlanC9 wrote...
...explains what good having a meter does. What does having a meter help you with? Do you actually need the meter to define your characters? I don't find that having one helps. At best  -- like in most of ME1 or ME3 -- it's irrelevant, at worst  -- like ME2's persuasion system -- it's actively harmful.

Maybe I just did ME1 wrong, but I found ME1 more restrictive points-wise than ME2. In ME2 the Jack/Miranda conflict and Zaeed's loyalty as Paragon are the only times I've seen persuasion greyed out. In ME1 it happened often, usually on the Citadel quests.

[AlanC9]

GimmeDaGun wrote...
I did not say that I like it (I don't), I just say that it seems that the thread went totally off-topic... and took the usual "unexpected" turn and became another "ending" thread.

I got that. My point was that it's hard to stay seriously engaged with this thing.

The guy did not only rewrite the ending... even if that was the fuel behind his ridiculously long fan-fic creation.

That's the fun part -- he seems to think that he's not really rewriting the ending, just cleaning up some glitches in the presentation. Control was always supposed to be evil, for instance.

[RZIBARA]

from what I've read, most of this is worse than the actual game

Modifié par RZIBARA, 22 janvier 2014 - 05:53 .

[Wayning_Star]

side note: anyone notice that the "new/upcoming games" folder on steam is really getting/going empty? But they did open a PC games area in wallyworld..

I'm too old..

[AlanC9]

CronoDragoon wrote...
Maybe I just did ME1 wrong, but I found ME1 more restrictive points-wise than ME2. In ME2 the Jack/Miranda conflict and Zaeed's loyalty as Paragon are the only times I've seen persuasion greyed out. In ME1 it happened often, usually on the Citadel quests.

I find that if I'm throwing points into Charm or Intimidate in the first place I will naturally end up using them enough to get all the P/R points I need. I  go one-sided on those skills unless I'm playing a Shep who doesn't put any points there at all, though I sometimes go to the first shopping breakpoint for the non-favored skill just to get some more RP flexibility. You could say that's a problem with dividing up the persuasion skill into P and R flavors.

I can see that there might be an issue with putting both Charm and Intimidate on the same Shep. Even if you wanted to spend the points, could you get a high level of functionality in both? I never tried this.

Modifié par AlanC9, 22 janvier 2014 - 06:00 .

[Iakus]

AlanC9 wrote...

iakus wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...
If you haven't noticed, in this rewrite Destroy is canonically the Paragon choice, in total disregard of the fact that it's based on 100% pure Renegade reasoning - sacrificing a part of your forces to make sure the enemy is DEAD. ROFL, I can't take this guy seriously, but in the face of that dogma, locking that Shepard out of Destroy makes perfect sense.

Except in this version, the Hgh EMS version, there is no sacrifice of forces in choosing Destroy.

Now I don't agree that either option should be canonically Paragon or Renegade, and is in fact the major sticking point I have in these endings.

True, but Paragon/Renegade/Neutral is how the guy saw the original choice. It's not a valid criticism of the rewrite, but it is a valid criticism of the author's comprehension and competence.

Comprehension maybe.  But competence is a bit of a stretch

The more I look into this, actually, the weaker the author's comprehension looks. There are some really basic goofs here, like how many protheans survived on Ilos.

Eh,Bioware's guilty of some pretty major goofs too, if that's the standard we're using.

They forgot Thane was a LI in ME2, for example

[Argentoid]

The dialogue in this re-write is god-awful.

Except for one scene with Javik.

[Wayning_Star]

I didn't read any of it for some reason?

[Argentoid]

What? You didn't read the blueprint, the scene with Javik, or just the dialogue?

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

I looked through the rewrite last night. IMO there was too much railroading based on ones paragon/renegade scores, the ending was worse than what we got. The dialogue needs reworking. And so what if there is no sacrifice of a race for choosing destroy? Because I have less than 85% paragon I get railroaded into Refuse and have to have the galaxy harvested unless I want to turn everyone into mindless husks because he completely misunderstands synthesis. No. This ending is terrible.

I applaud his effort, but I think he needs to go back and rethink some of his ideas.

When you're dealing with a team writing a story is that team members change. People writing different components of the story move to writing other components of the story. Others even left the company or went to different projects. I don't think the first assignment was to "Play Mass Effect 1 and Mass Effect 2 as both femShep and default Shepard." It was probably to look at the save game files and fine the variables passed.