31 réponses à ce sujet

[Toastysoul]

 Not gonna bother with endless quotes.

Not that I need to convince anyone, but for the sake of argument, yes, I'm quite certain I'm not a homophobe and/or bigot. I'm not afraid or threatened by anyone's sexual orientation (virtual or real), and I'm old enough to not be bothered by internet name calling from people who want everyone to accept them, but won't accept others that aren't like them. I don't think being gay is immoral or whatever negative adjective, but I don't like it being brought up over and again in my games either, and I'm not ashamed to admit that, nor should I be.
Why is it so hard to accept that gay advances make some straight people uncomfortable? Why is that such a problem? Why is it bigoted to point out the obvious gay bias in the game? As a male character, you get hit on by a bunch of dudes, and only once, indirectly, from a woman, which was more of a flirt than an actual advance. That's a fact. That seems like a fairly gay skew to me. I thought it was ridiculous more than uncomfortable, but I refuse to say nothing at all over a fear of being called names. Words like homophobe and bigot are so overused to silence straight people that don't like it for whatever reason. When exactly did it become a problem to say I don't want gay guys coming on to me? Why should I, or anyone else, be forced to deal with that? If you're gay Anders, fine, be gay, but go bother Fenris and leave me the **** out of it. Pestering me & Merrill about being together because I won't play hide the staff with you is over the ****ing top with gay. Yes, it's a problem.

I'll get to the point, and save the stupid deductions that are sure to come from over analyzing my posts. I think unsolicited romantic advances should be limited to straight encounters for characters that have not expressed any gay interest. I don't think a "gay toggle" is a bad idea, and I think picking your orientation (some, all, none) at character creation is an elegant solution to that. 
That isn't "silencing gay". You are trying to make that sound evil by equate it with something negative in RL, and it's not. That doesn't touch the actual orientation of other characters, it's simply putting a sign on your forehead in game that says "Not gay, stop asking".
There is excessive racism in DA2, all you hear about is Shemlen this, and Fereldan refuge that. Racial & Religious intolerance, and intolerance for others in general is a primary and reoccurring theme to the game. When it comes to ROMANCE though... well, then everyone is suddenly so accepting and all "kumbaya, lets have an orgy at the rose", and it makes perfect sense -- except it doesn't. You can't even really romance both women at once (polygamists, get your pitchforks, bioware is being bigotted & inconsiderate of your preferences). Sebastian and Isabella are the only reasonable characters, because their romance options make sense for them. 
Far be it for me to point out that for all the clinging to platitudes like the kinsey scale, the fact of the matter is most men and women in the world (and by extension gamers) are actually straight. And there is only one genuinely straight LI in the game, and you had to pay to get him included.

I'm not making some slippery slope argument, (way to go trying to trivialize my statement) but if boiware is going to stick it's neck out and wade into these waters, it had better be prepared to deal with all the issues, including a segment of the community that doesn't appreciate the changes. I wonder how loud the forums would be if people weren't afraid of getting name called for stating their real views?

[Ferretinabun]

You seem very determined that you are not bigoted at all. But let's adjust a few parameters and see what happens, shall we?

Let us go back to the point that, of the 4 LI's, only 1 of them is a white human. I imagine this never bothered you at all - indeed it never bothered me. And that's because we're not racist. The race (or species) of the characters we are romancing means very little to us. We could get hit on by elves and Dwarves and non-white humans all day long and it wouldn't bother us. Because we're not racist. And we're not offended if we get hit on by characters outside of the 'white human' category.

Now imagine someone who DOES care. Let's call him Bob. Bob is angry that there is so much cross-species romance in DA2. It infuriated him that Zevran made a pass at him because Zevran is an elf. It infuriated him that Isabela made a pass at him, because she isn't white. For him, the race of the characters who flirt with him is a very big issue indeed. Not that would call himself racist, you understand. Oh no, he doesn't HATE people of other races. He doesn't want to hurt them or think they are immoral. Heck, he might even have a friend who was non-white, but it just offends him if one of them hits on him in a video game. He would very much like an option at the beginning of the game to select whether or not his character ever gets hit on by a non-white person. Like a big sign on his forehead saying "Not interested in elves, dwarves and blacks - stop asking".

Now would you say that Bob is racist, or isn't racist? Really. Think about it.

I'm sure you can follow where I'm going with that.

Now, as to sexuality in DA2, Gaider has defended the point ably many times. The fact of the matter is that the 4 love interests are player-sexual rather than all canonically bisexual. Merrill and Fenris never state their sexuality openly if you do not pursue a romance with them (though Fenris MAY form a relationship with Isabela if both are single in Act 3) so unless you romance them you do not their sexuality. You can easily headcanon they were both straight. Isabela and Anders will both hit on you, them being more sexually open. Isabela IS canonically bisexual, and Anders will be too if you are male.

So that means every Hawke has two love interests to choose from (or more if they want to be bi). This is in contrast to DA:O when straight wardens had 2 potential LI's and gay ones had only 1. Does this leave Ferelden as unrealistically liberal about sexuality? Perhaps. But it is a sacrifice Bioware are willing to make for the sake of inclusivity for their audience.

Well, I'll let Gaider himself explain. I think he puts it rather well:

"The romances in the game are not for “the straight male gamer”. They’re for everyone. We have a lot of fans, many of whom are neither straight nor male, and they deserve no less attention... The majority has no inherent “right” to get more options than anyone else...

"You can write it off as “political correctness” if you wish, but the truth is that privilege always lies with the majority. They’re so used to being catered to that they see the lack of catering as an imbalance. They don’t see anything wrong with having things set up to suit them, what’s everyone’s fuss all about? That’s the way it should be, any everyone else should be used to not getting what they want.

"The truth is that making a romance available for both genders is far less costly than creating an entirely new one. Does it create some issues of implementation? Sure– but anything you try on
this front is going to have its issues, and inevitably you’ll always leave someone out in the cold. In this case, are all straight males left out in the cold? Not at all. There are romances available for them just the same as anyone else. Not all straight males require that their content be exclusive, after all, and you can see that even on this thread."

http://www.thebacklo...-age-2/03/2011/

Finally, you really DID make the slippery slope argument. You DID say gay romances will be followed by gay rapes and bestiality options. Don't blame me - you said it. What exactly was I to make of this? I had assumed it was a flippant joke (if one in very poor taste) stemming from a general low-level paranoia about gay people. But if I was trivialising it, then does that mean you think it is LITERALLY true? Do you honestly need me to point out that condoning same-sex relationships is no closer to condoning gay rape than condoning straight sex is to condoning straight rape? Do you honestly need me to tell you that there is no connection at all between homosexuality and bestiality? I'm confused on this. What exactly did you mean? But whatever it was, can't you at least see it was delivered extremely offensively?

[cJohnOne]

My experience was getting hit on one time by Anders and having to give him the broken heart dialogue once. I don't see how this experience would be something to talk on and on and on about.


Did everyone else have the same experience as me?

[DOZ1990]

i don't see why your making such a big argument out of it!

[Ferretinabun]

We're internet forum users - we can make a big argument out of anything! ;-)

But yes, sorry to derail.

In answer to your question, if you've just finished Origins, you might want to do Awakenings and the other Origins DLC first, and in the following order - Awakenings, Golems of Amgarrak, Witch Hunt. These act as a bridge between Origins and DA2,

Darkspawn Chronicles and Leliana's Song are standalone stories (the latter is actually a prequel) and so are entirely optional.

[boredgunner]

Yes. It doesn't have anything on DA:O, but it bridges the story between DA:O and DA:I. Character development is still very good, the story is interesting, it's still better than most other RPGs within the last 5 years somehow.

Modifié par boredgunner, 29 janvier 2014 - 06:53 .

[Samuel_Valkyrie]

Yes. When it comes to character development, I actually prefer it over DA:O.