This is a great explanation for what they're doing.Sanunes wrote...
I finally found the video, in this GameInformer Video (around 4:30) they talk about how the different generations of consoles will work.
GameInformer Video
Will DA: I be built for 360/PS3 and scaled up, or built for X1/PS4 and scaled down?
Débuté par
MWMike2011
, janv. 22 2014 06:28
#51
Posté 22 janvier 2014 - 02:53
ElitePinecone
-
- Members
- 12 936 messages
Retour en haut
#52
Posté 22 janvier 2014 - 02:59
TKavatar
-
- Members
- 1 642 messages
I wonder if DA:I will have support for SteamOS...of course this means Origin has to support it first, and I can't really see that happening.
#53
Posté 22 janvier 2014 - 03:08
Sanunes
-
- Members
- 4 378 messages
TKavatar wrote...
I wonder if DA:I will have support for SteamOS...of course this means Origin has to support it first, and I can't really see that happening.
It would also mean that Frostbite will work in a native Linux environment and I don't think it does yet.
#54
Posté 22 janvier 2014 - 03:11
ElitePinecone
-
- Members
- 12 936 messages
Valve would let Electronic Arts put the Origin store on SteamOS and Steam Machines.
Though I think (?) DA:I would need to be ported to Linux to work on SteamOS? In any case, I don't really think there'll be millions of people with Steam Machines, even later this year.
Though I think (?) DA:I would need to be ported to Linux to work on SteamOS? In any case, I don't really think there'll be millions of people with Steam Machines, even later this year.
#55
Guest_Guest12345_*
Posté 22 janvier 2014 - 03:36
Guest_Guest12345_*
Guest_Guest12345_*
-
- Guests
TKavatar wrote...
Can't wait to play DA:I in all it's glory at 1440p
Seriously, I'm buying a new monitor just to play DAI in 1440p. I can't wait!
#56
Guest_Aotearas_*
Posté 22 janvier 2014 - 03:41
Guest_Aotearas_*
Guest_Aotearas_*
-
- Guests
I hope it will be built for PC and then scaled down to XBone/PS4 and XBox360/PS3.
But who am I kidding, every PC gamer has been hoping for that the whole last console generation long and we didn't get it.
But who am I kidding, every PC gamer has been hoping for that the whole last console generation long and we didn't get it.
#57
Posté 22 janvier 2014 - 03:59
Sanunes
-
- Members
- 4 378 messages
Neofelis Nebulosa wrote...
I hope it will be built for PC and then scaled down to XBone/PS4 and XBox360/PS3.
But who am I kidding, every PC gamer has been hoping for that the whole last console generation long and we didn't get it.
The thing about blaming consoles for that is where do they start for the PC market? There are people out there with GeForce Titans in SLI with the best i7 processor and 16gigs of RAM, but there are also people out there with lower end PCs that are probably on par with consoles. There is so much variance in different PC hardware and preformance its really hard to get a good starting point for it. So they use console hardware as a guideline because they know there are millions of people with that specific level of hardware instead of the few that can afford really high end PC hardware.
#58
Guest_Aotearas_*
Posté 22 janvier 2014 - 09:36
Guest_Aotearas_*
Guest_Aotearas_*
-
- Guests
Sanunes wrote...
Neofelis Nebulosa wrote...
I hope it will be built for PC and then scaled down to XBone/PS4 and XBox360/PS3.
But who am I kidding, every PC gamer has been hoping for that the whole last console generation long and we didn't get it.
The thing about blaming consoles for that is where do they start for the PC market? There are people out there with GeForce Titans in SLI with the best i7 processor and 16gigs of RAM, but there are also people out there with lower end PCs that are probably on par with consoles. There is so much variance in different PC hardware and preformance its really hard to get a good starting point for it. So they use console hardware as a guideline because they know there are millions of people with that specific level of hardware instead of the few that can afford really high end PC hardware.
And you think that explains missing basic features like field of vision sliders (a FoV of 65 is all dandy when you're sitting two meters away from a large TV, but for someone sitting right in front of a monitor, it is downright sickening!), console UI ports for PC games, inability to remap keys, etc. ?
I'm not talking just about hardware, I am talking the very basic design philosophy here. Nevermind that ALL console games are downscaled because, big surprise, games, not matter of what kind are programmed on computers, not consoles. And those aren't 500 buck home office PCs roughly on par with a console, those are professional workstation PCs with advanced computing power in form of high end CPUs, GPUs and lots of RAM for a majority of the big development studios.
Hell, the new Respawn Entertainment studio had just gotten a truckload of GTX Titans for all their workstations straight from Nvidia ... for free as far as the news is to be believed.
So if they can downscale their games to console niveau, there's little reason they couldn't just aswell downscale just a little less for the PC crowd that is in between of those high-end rigs and them consoles.
I don't scream out they should only make games for rigs with hexacore CPUs, quad GPUs and 32GB RAM, but the other side of that argument, only developing games on a quality level on level with consoles is just as discriminating.
Yes, consoles are the lowest common denominator when it comes to hardware and yes, console gaming is the bigger wallet (even though bPC gaming is equal, if not larger when you discount the casual gaming sector which is almost entirely console based), but it really, really is no significant hardship for developers to properly optimize a game for PC gaming.
#59
Posté 23 janvier 2014 - 12:06
Deflagratio
-
- Members
- 2 513 messages
Neofelis Nebulosa wrote...
I hope it will be built for PC and then scaled down to XBone/PS4 and XBox360/PS3.
But who am I kidding, every PC gamer has been hoping for that the whole last console generation long and we didn't get it.
I actually think that's how Frostbite 3 is built. At least in the case of Battlefield 4, you can definitely see it's PC-centric support. Great Optimization, unrivaled visual ceiling... about the only PC-centric feature Frostbite 3 isn't built for is modding.
If that translates through to DA:I, who can really say? Bioware has made extensive modifications to the engine in order to support the RPG.
I will say however, once Cross-gen support (X360/PS3) ends, you should be seeing more top-down scaling, since the architecture of the PS4/X1 are much closer to the PCs. At least I think that'll be true in the case of graphics and overall design, UI is another matter, as few Cross-Platform PC games have a proper UI.
#60
Posté 23 janvier 2014 - 12:32
FreshRevenge
-
- Members
- 958 messages
Here is the truth and the facts. Bioware and EA knows that most people can't afford a 5,000 dollar rig or even a 2,000 dollar rig at being the lowest unless you want to settle for 1,500. So they look at it as a whole. Where is the most money going to be made, a PC gamer that has a high end computer or a console user that most people will have in their homes.
This whole idea that PC games are so much better when we got games like Metal Gear Solid 4 and Uncharted or The Last of Us and I know these are Sony exclusive games but the point is that saying because you have a pc is so much better become mute at that moment.
Now I got AC4 for my PS4 but I notice that the PS3 version really wasn't that different. I think they should focus on making this game for next gen consoles and for pc gamers. Only because than they don't have to worry about lowering the specifications for each system. Plus it might push the consumer to purchase a next gen console to get the better experience without paying a huge investment.
For those who have made that investment on putting together a rig up. It might not be that expensive to maintain afterwards.
Unless anyone here wants to hand me 5,000 dollars to get a computer and get the lastest and greatest, than at the moment I will be getting it for the PS4 because of all the other games that will be on the system. Personal preference.
I have considered building a rig but I need to look at my finances first before I make that commitment.
This whole idea that PC games are so much better when we got games like Metal Gear Solid 4 and Uncharted or The Last of Us and I know these are Sony exclusive games but the point is that saying because you have a pc is so much better become mute at that moment.
Now I got AC4 for my PS4 but I notice that the PS3 version really wasn't that different. I think they should focus on making this game for next gen consoles and for pc gamers. Only because than they don't have to worry about lowering the specifications for each system. Plus it might push the consumer to purchase a next gen console to get the better experience without paying a huge investment.
For those who have made that investment on putting together a rig up. It might not be that expensive to maintain afterwards.
Unless anyone here wants to hand me 5,000 dollars to get a computer and get the lastest and greatest, than at the moment I will be getting it for the PS4 because of all the other games that will be on the system. Personal preference.
I have considered building a rig but I need to look at my finances first before I make that commitment.
#61
Guest_Aotearas_*
Posté 23 janvier 2014 - 12:43
Guest_Aotearas_*
Guest_Aotearas_*
-
- Guests
FreshRevenge wrote...
Here is the truth and the facts. Bioware and EA knows that most people can't afford a 5,000 dollar rig or even a 2,000 dollar rig at being the lowest unless you want to settle for 1,500. So they look at it as a whole. Where is the most money going to be made, a PC gamer that has a high end computer or a console user that most people will have in their homes.
Here some more truth and facts:
You don't need a 5000 bucks, a 2000 bucks, a 1500 bucks, a 1000 bucks or even a 800 bucks rig to have a PC that is VASTLY more powerful than a console.
I really wish people would stop spouting that completely uneducated nonsense about PCs being expensive. They are not. In fact the ONLY reason why consoles are just slightly cheaper than an equally performing PC (or conversely slightly more powerful than a PC for the same price) is because console manufacturers sell those system at a loss, which is also the reason console games are a flat 10 bucks minimum more expensive than PC games.
The truth and only relevant fact is that PC gaming is in fact CHEAPER than console gaming when you look at it over a time period of around two years.
And the higher initial investment cost for a powerful PC being extraordinarily high is also nonsense. Because, another fact, more or less every household that can afford a console for themselves or their kids already has one, if not two PCs, which can simply be upgraded for a fraction of the cost of a full out new PC depending on what hardware you start from.
In short:
Stop being stupid.
#62
Posté 23 janvier 2014 - 12:51
FreshRevenge
-
- Members
- 958 messages
No where did I say you were stupid did I? So I would suggest you show me the same respect. Okay you can get a crappy computer sure you can. But if you want to build it from scratch. This means you buy each individual part than you are looking to spend some money.
graphics card can range from 60 to 1500 dollars
Ram
cooling fans
tower
etc.
Do your research!
https://www.google.c...ficial&tbm=sho' class='bbc_url' title='Lien externe' rel='nofollow external'> https://www.google.com/search
www.google.com/search
Now those two links just show a variety of Ram Memory and graphics which are popular.
graphics card can range from 60 to 1500 dollars
Ram
cooling fans
tower
etc.
Do your research!
https://www.google.c...ficial&tbm=sho' class='bbc_url' title='Lien externe' rel='nofollow external'> https://www.google.com/search
www.google.com/search
Now those two links just show a variety of Ram Memory and graphics which are popular.
Modifié par FreshRevenge, 23 janvier 2014 - 12:59 .
#63
Posté 23 janvier 2014 - 12:56
Naesaki
-
- Members
- 3 397 messages
scyphozoa wrote...
TKavatar wrote...
Can't wait to play DA:I in all it's glory at 1440p
Seriously, I'm buying a new monitor just to play DAI in 1440p. I can't wait!
I do really want a 1440p monitor but I'm no good when it comes to selecting a model xd
#64
Guest_Aotearas_*
Posté 23 janvier 2014 - 12:57
Guest_Aotearas_*
Guest_Aotearas_*
-
- Guests
FreshRevenge wrote...
No where did I say you were stupid did I? So I would suggest you show me the same respect. Okay you can get a crappy computer sure you can. But if you want to build it from scratch. This means you buy each individual part than you are looking to spend some money.
graphics card can range from 60 to 1500 dollars
Ram
cooling fans
tower
etc.
And?
Did you understand anything that I said or did it just enter in one ear and went straight out the other again (paraphrased, used eyes makes the analogy sound wierd) ?
Thinking a gaming PC is expensive is uneducated. Point #1. And starting to argue the same point again after I just told you it's not is the definition of stupid. Point #2.
Do I need to explain everything again or is it coming through now?
#65
Guest_Aotearas_*
Posté 23 janvier 2014 - 01:01
Guest_Aotearas_*
Guest_Aotearas_*
-
- Guests
FreshRevenge wrote...
Do your research!
https://www.google.c...ficial&tbm=shop
https://www.google.c...ficial&tbm=shop
Now those two links just show a variety of Ram Memory and graphics which are popular.
Your graphic card search shows up last-gen GPUs with around double the market price they have and a frickin' door speaker ID card.
In your own words:
FreshRevenge wrote...
Do your research!
#66
Posté 23 janvier 2014 - 01:02
FreshRevenge
-
- Members
- 958 messages
Okay add up the pieces you will need to build a computer and let's see if that comes up to 400 bucks!
#67
Posté 23 janvier 2014 - 01:03
FreshRevenge
-
- Members
- 958 messages
Need to just relax now!
Modifié par FreshRevenge, 23 janvier 2014 - 01:25 .
#68
Posté 23 janvier 2014 - 01:13
TKavatar
-
- Members
- 1 642 messages
Naesaki wrote...
scyphozoa wrote...
TKavatar wrote...
Can't wait to play DA:I in all it's glory at 1440p
Seriously, I'm buying a new monitor just to play DAI in 1440p. I can't wait!
I do really want a 1440p monitor but I'm no good when it comes to selecting a model xd
You can get a Korean 27inch IPS panels from Ebay...they're pretty decent and relatively low priced.
FreshRevenge wrote...
You are about the dumbest stupidest person that I have ever met. I am done with this. You want to attack me than I will give my address and can come by and try!
Please don't fight and get this locked now you two. But FYI it is infact possible to build a decent PC for 1000 or even less that will rival consoles.
Here's some links:
http://www.logicalincrements.com/
http://www.choosemypc.net/
#69
Guest_Aotearas_*
Posté 23 janvier 2014 - 01:14
Guest_Aotearas_*
Guest_Aotearas_*
-
- Guests
FreshRevenge wrote...
Okay add up the pieces you will need to build a computer and let's see if that comes up to 400 bucks!
AMD A10 7850K APU
Asus A55BM-E MOBO
4GB -Corsair DIMM 4 1333MHz DDR RAM
HGST HTS545032A7E380 320 GB HDD
Chieftec IX-01B-OP Case
Asus DRW-24F1ST DVD Drive
Aerocool AP-450 PSU
Came in at around 360€ for me.
Will add OS, peripherals and monitor to the pricing list if you add your TV to the console price equation, otherwise I will assume a home PC is present and I can use its OS license, peripherals and monitor just as you argue from the standpoint that a TV is already present.
I would of course have to add that if a PC is already present as is according to the consumer demographic I had already mentioned, I would rather upgrade said PC than build a new rig from scratch, which would be even cheaper as I can at the very least skip the case, DVD drive, PSU and most likely RAM.
edit://
Since you declared your interest in our argument void, take my answer as you will. But the only stupid one in here is you, in light of not only failing to educate yourself before trying to argue (and then ironically accusing me of not doing my research) and continuing to ignore the facts I brought up in my arguments and proceeded to argue on a standpoint that is not a viable argument to begin with given its falselyhood.
Good day sir.
I sincerely hope you are never going to be in charge of buying anyone a PC.
Modifié par Neofelis Nebulosa, 23 janvier 2014 - 01:18 .
#70
Posté 23 janvier 2014 - 01:19
FreshRevenge
-
- Members
- 958 messages
I don't want to fight but calling someone stupid when it isn't needed is a pet peeve of mind.
My last sentence before it got derailed was I would have to look at my finances before I build a rig on my own. So when that becomes a reality than I will take more time in doing the research. But I know since I have been around forever that the parts are not cheap.
My last sentence before it got derailed was I would have to look at my finances before I build a rig on my own. So when that becomes a reality than I will take more time in doing the research. But I know since I have been around forever that the parts are not cheap.
#71
Guest_Aotearas_*
Posté 23 janvier 2014 - 01:27
Guest_Aotearas_*
Guest_Aotearas_*
-
- Guests
FreshRevenge wrote...
I don't want to fight but calling someone stupid when it isn't needed is a pet peeve of mind.
Meh, stupid is nothing but a synonym for "uneducated", which said opinion/argument simply is. So I said s/he should stop being that. Was I being provocative? Yes, and I apologize for derailing the topic. But I will not apologize for trying to right a wrong, and that myth about gaming PCs being expensive is as wrong as it gets. It's marketing bull**** set into the common minds by the console marketing machine to make their products sell better.
I actually have to tap my hat to those people for a marketing campaign well done. They truly convinced the masses that nonsense is right.
#72
Posté 23 janvier 2014 - 01:30
Raven489
-
- Members
- 137 messages
Neofelis Nebulosa wrote...
FreshRevenge wrote...
Here is the truth and the facts. Bioware and EA knows that most people can't afford a 5,000 dollar rig or even a 2,000 dollar rig at being the lowest unless you want to settle for 1,500. So they look at it as a whole. Where is the most money going to be made, a PC gamer that has a high end computer or a console user that most people will have in their homes.
Here some more truth and facts:
You don't need a 5000 bucks, a 2000 bucks, a 1500 bucks, a 1000 bucks or even a 800 bucks rig to have a PC that is VASTLY more powerful than a console.
I really wish people would stop spouting that completely uneducated nonsense about PCs being expensive. They are not. In fact the ONLY reason why consoles are just slightly cheaper than an equally performing PC (or conversely slightly more powerful than a PC for the same price) is because console manufacturers sell those system at a loss, which is also the reason console games are a flat 10 bucks minimum more expensive than PC games.
The truth and only relevant fact is that PC gaming is in fact CHEAPER than console gaming when you look at it over a time period of around two years.
And the higher initial investment cost for a powerful PC being extraordinarily high is also nonsense. Because, another fact, more or less every household that can afford a console for themselves or their kids already has one, if not two PCs, which can simply be upgraded for a fraction of the cost of a full out new PC depending on what hardware you start from.
In short:
Stop being stupid.
I wonder why people think that though? I've been told by a lot of PC gamers that you can't build a good gaming PC under $1000, so that's why I've stuck to console gaming. I mean, I'm a 19 year old college student, the majority of my money needs to go towards schooling and books. I'm glad someone was able to clear up that misconception though, because even I thought PC gaming was expensive, unless you wanted to build one that could barely play anything.
#73
Posté 23 janvier 2014 - 01:34
FreshRevenge
-
- Members
- 958 messages
You have to look at another aspect of console verses pc gaming. You need to see if the exclusives are worth the investment. You can't play some games on a pc and vice versa. It isn't just about having a pc to play high end games. Anyway whenever I decide to get a pc rig than I will just be content with playing DAI on the PS4!
Modifié par FreshRevenge, 23 janvier 2014 - 01:39 .
#74
Guest_Aotearas_*
Posté 23 janvier 2014 - 01:39
Guest_Aotearas_*
Guest_Aotearas_*
-
- Guests
Raven489 wrote...
Neofelis Nebulosa wrote...
FreshRevenge wrote...
Here is the truth and the facts. Bioware and EA knows that most people can't afford a 5,000 dollar rig or even a 2,000 dollar rig at being the lowest unless you want to settle for 1,500. So they look at it as a whole. Where is the most money going to be made, a PC gamer that has a high end computer or a console user that most people will have in their homes.
Here some more truth and facts:
You don't need a 5000 bucks, a 2000 bucks, a 1500 bucks, a 1000 bucks or even a 800 bucks rig to have a PC that is VASTLY more powerful than a console.
I really wish people would stop spouting that completely uneducated nonsense about PCs being expensive. They are not. In fact the ONLY reason why consoles are just slightly cheaper than an equally performing PC (or conversely slightly more powerful than a PC for the same price) is because console manufacturers sell those system at a loss, which is also the reason console games are a flat 10 bucks minimum more expensive than PC games.
The truth and only relevant fact is that PC gaming is in fact CHEAPER than console gaming when you look at it over a time period of around two years.
And the higher initial investment cost for a powerful PC being extraordinarily high is also nonsense. Because, another fact, more or less every household that can afford a console for themselves or their kids already has one, if not two PCs, which can simply be upgraded for a fraction of the cost of a full out new PC depending on what hardware you start from.
In short:
Stop being stupid.
I wonder why people think that though? I've been told by a lot of PC gamers that you can't build a good gaming PC under $1000, so that's why I've stuck to console gaming. I mean, I'm a 19 year old college student, the majority of my money needs to go towards schooling and books. I'm glad someone was able to clear up that misconception though, because even I thought PC gaming was expensive, unless you wanted to build one that could barely play anything.
Well, I guess hardcore PC gaming mindset played the console marketing in its hands.
To clarify:
Hardcore gamers (defined here as not-casual gamers, as in people who buy and maintain a PC specifically and primarily to run games on it) always strive to have the best hardware and are willing to spend a lot of money for it.
Depending on the budget, those "best hardware" solutions can range from 800 to 5000 and more bucks per rig (usually excluding high grade monitors and peripherals). The inherent problems is that a hardcore gamer has a different standard mindset when it comes to performance.
You can run more or less every game up until ressource hogs like Bf4 on that little 360€ mini PC I had "constructed" with thirty to sixty frames per second depending on the graphical settings and used monitor resolution.
I'd guess Bf4 could run at around 60 fps with a 720p resolution on low, maybe medium graphic settings.
edit://
Did a short benchmark check. The AMD A10 7850K can actually play Bf4 on medium settigns @ 1080p for solid 30 frames per second. So you could run at very much fluid playable 45-50 fps if you just lower the settings to low at full HD resolution, you don't even have to lower it to 720p
But a hardcore gamer thinks: "Can I run it at maximum?" as the standard. And with the most demanding games when you pump up the settings, maxing out performance usually requires hardware at around a 1000 bucks.
So you'd need a 1000 buck rig ... if you want to play the latest game with the best graphics fluently.
Doesn't mean though you can't play the same game with liss graphical fidelity on a lower resolution for a fraction of the cost though. And even on low graphic settings, games like Bf4 still look pretty good.
edit2://
FreshRevenge wrote...
You have to look at another aspect
of console verses pc gaming. You need to see if the exclusives are worth
the investment. You can't play some games on a pc and vice versa. It
isn't just about having a pc to play high end games. Anyway whenever
I decide to get a pc rig than I will just be content with playing DAI on
the PS4!
Fair point.
I could of course tell you something about PC software to circumvent most of that limitation, but I doubt the mods would like if I delve too much into that material. After all it is sadly closely tied to software piracy, even if you try not to do without pirating games, the connotations are there. Hence I will NOT go into the whole thing, wrong people might get wrong ideas (and then blame me and get me banned).
Modifié par Neofelis Nebulosa, 23 janvier 2014 - 01:46 .
#75
Posté 23 janvier 2014 - 01:44
FreshRevenge
-
- Members
- 958 messages
Now you proven my point about spending a good deal of money. Most gamers or those who are looking to get a rig set up, are going to be determine to get the best fidelity and have it running at the highest quality.
No one thinks well I want to play Dragon Age Inquisition with stoneass technology!
edit: sure you can have a gaming rig that is relatively cheaper but is the sacrifice worth it? If you are not dead set on having a good rig than you might as well settle for a console because than you don't have to worry about upgrading the specs every so often.
No one thinks well I want to play Dragon Age Inquisition with stoneass technology!
edit: sure you can have a gaming rig that is relatively cheaper but is the sacrifice worth it? If you are not dead set on having a good rig than you might as well settle for a console because than you don't have to worry about upgrading the specs every so often.
Modifié par FreshRevenge, 23 janvier 2014 - 01:52 .
