66 réponses à ce sujet

[Redbelle]

MrFob wrote...

So how about this: The citadel can only connect to the relay network when it's own relay function is activated (which wouldn't be surprising, given how important it is to the reapers to keep the relays as impenetrable as possible). This function probably draws a lot of power, so when it's active, it can easily get detected by the organics who inhabit the citadel, so it has to remain turned off until needed.
This also means the reapers can't just come through from dark space whenever they want, the citadel needs to be activated on site (usually by the sentinel reaper (sovereign) through the keepers, see vigil conversation). It's just like any relay, you need both partners to make the connection work. The reapers in dark space don't have access to this function because they are out of range to send a signal.
Why don't the reapers use e.g. a QEC to turn the relay function of the Citadel on and off (after all, they can control the collectors and Grayson)? Well, good question but the fact is, we know very little about QECs and such. What if they can have a glitch? I mean, even our computers today can be affected by random events like in the case of single event upsets, etc. (I know, completely different tech but it's feasible) and qbits are not exactly easy (practically impossible today) to maintain. This system has to remain secure for 50000 years, you wouldn't want it to activate accidentally at the wrong time.

Is this head cannon? Depends on your interpretation of the word but I usually have no problem with using my imagination to fill in some blanks as long as the overall story is interesting and coherent enough to keep me going. It's only when the overarching story breaks apart that I get caught up in little details.

I'd just say that the QEC system is technology that has been developed beyond the imposed 50k years limit of technological advancement imposed by the Reaper cycles.

Given the number of times this 'cycle' experiment has been repeated by the Reeapers it's fair to assume that variable that create outliers in technology advancement can occur. The Reaper may just not have QEC. Or if they even know about it.... lack the ability to make use of it due to their stagnation in developing new tech.

After all, they absorb. They don't build on top of existing tech to reach new height of technological prowess.

QEC being a tech they haven't been able to seize control of throughout the cycles is as good a reason as any.

Modifié par Redbelle, 23 janvier 2014 - 02:19 .

[Dean_the_Young]

Are we ignoring lore that already established that, yes, the Reapers have a mastery of QEC that far surpasses our own? Considering it's used in their Collectors even back in ME2?

[Redbelle]

IntoTheDarkness wrote...




Why didn't they install a button to deactivate/activate all mass relays on a station built in dark space instead of the citadel?

What is the point of building a station that can control relays and handing it over to the organic?

Mass effect never fails to surprise me as spotting its plothole is like trying to count the number of sands on a beach. It's practically endless.

Because the Reaper's needed a cultural hub that would become the centre of galactic decision making.

The Reapers are kinda dimwitted, not really thinking things through...... (Catalyst's influence no doubt..... *cough*) So the idea of putting a station in dark space where the Reaper eventually went to wait made little sense. All the Reaper advance on the galaxy leaving no one behind.... at least, that we saw.

Also, think back to the first Reaper. The first Reaper would not have thought that dark space was a really cool place to go and wait. The first Reaper would be galactic in it's movements. Not extra galactic. Early days there was no need to go into dark space. And no way to do so given that Reaperswould have to build a relay network.

It seems to me that Reaper logic can be described as throwback logic. Logic that made sense at the time that never got revisited as circumstances changed. Hence, when the Citadel was built as a relay hub, and then developed as a honey trap of the citadel we now know, it could simply be that the Reapers had reasons at the time...... that do not make sense to anyone.......

........But Archer Sterling!

[Redbelle]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Are we ignoring lore that already established that, yes, the Reapers have a mastery of QEC that far surpasses our own? Considering it's used in their Collectors even back in ME2?

........... Well puts the Kabooosh to what was otherwise a damn fine idea.

<shakes Fist> Daaaaamn yoooou Saaaalaaaaazaaaaar!

[Ithurael]

NeonFlux117 wrote...

wolfhowwl wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

NeonFlux117 wrote...
It's there for a reason.

BioWare should have removed it to give Shepard an end forever.

I'm still not getting the why here. Why should Bio have to kill Shepard in all endings?

Wouldn't that have prevented the IT from ever existing?

Now we're talking.

This would best be addressed by Hudson and Walters and the creative team of ME3.


And yet...

Nothing.

Why is that.

Keeping IT alive seels more DLC. IT was a great support for the endings and the game to keep fans interested in what comes next. I would be willing to bet that most ITers bought and played every single ME3 DLC that came out because they 'loved' the ending so much. In the end Bioware is a company, and any company knows an easy market when they see one. All Bioware had to do was not confirm or deny and then make pre ending DLC and they would make money off of ITers and Pro Enders (and prob even Meh and some anti enders).

[Vortex13]

I always did wonder why the narrative never mentioned the Dark Space Relay, or why none of the characters thought to investigate it further. I mean the Dark Space Relay is technically the closest thing to a Reaper 'home world' in the setting, and everyone apparently forgets that it exists after its mention in the first game.

Even if the Dark Rely didn't contain any usable intel on the Reapers, the Council should have put effort into trying to open the Relay; have a save 'holding area' for refugees. Even if indoctrinated agents made it through to the other side, at top speed the Reapers would still be two plus years from being able to threaten them.

As far as how the Citadel Relay works, I am convinced that it has always been a physical/manual connection, in that it is impossible to access the 'on' switch remotely; everything requires manual operation. Why else would the Reapers need the Keepers?

At any rate, I hope that the Dark Space Relay is explored in future titles, and is used as a means to bring Reapers back to a post-ending galaxy.

[Vrin]

IntoTheDarkness wrote...




Why didn't they install a button to deactivate/activate all mass relays on a station built in dark space instead of the citadel?

What is the point of building a station that can control relays and handing it over to the organic?

Mass effect never fails to surprise me as spotting its plothole is like trying to count the number of sands on a beach. It's practically endless.

Indoctrination Theory answers tis

:: runs and hides ::

[Wayning_Star]

actually the catalyst built the 'switches' if any, not the reapers, they're just slave/thrall ships. Apparently the citadel is the hub of harvest, or at least ONE of them. Normally things would go smoothly, now that Shep and probably the left over Leviathan are causing for mischief. All reapers do is reap, at the bequest of their hidden agendizer catalyst.

Not a plot hole there OP, just not enough data for the interaction of all concerned?

[Wayning_Star]

Vortex13 wrote...

I always did wonder why the narrative never mentioned the Dark Space Relay, or why none of the characters thought to investigate it further. I mean the Dark Space Relay is technically the closest thing to a Reaper 'home world' in the setting, and everyone apparently forgets that it exists after its mention in the first game.

Even if the Dark Rely didn't contain any usable intel on the Reapers, the Council should have put effort into trying to open the Relay; have a save 'holding area' for refugees. Even if indoctrinated agents made it through to the other side, at top speed the Reapers would still be two plus years from being able to threaten them.

As far as how the Citadel Relay works, I am convinced that it has always been a physical/manual connection, in that it is impossible to access the 'on' switch remotely; everything requires manual operation. Why else would the Reapers need the Keepers?

At any rate, I hope that the Dark Space Relay is explored in future titles, and is used as a means to bring Reapers back to a post-ending galaxy.

because of the vastness of it all. I'd guess that's why folks wanting an 'unabridged' version of mass effect 14...

[MrFob]

Redbelle wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Are we ignoring lore that already established that, yes, the Reapers have a mastery of QEC that far surpasses our own? Considering it's used in their Collectors even back in ME2?

........... Well puts the Kabooosh to what was otherwise a damn fine idea.

<shakes Fist> Daaaaamn yoooou Saaaalaaaaazaaaaar!

That's why I said, the QEC tech may be feasible for controlling the Collectors/Grayson but not for this kind of application.

[CronoDragoon]

AlanC9 wrote...


Right. The question is why people are bothered by stuff in ME3 that didn't bother them in the other games.

For most people it's going to come back to the (extreme) emotional dissatisfaction they felt with the ending giving them a reason to obsess and pore over ME3's eye-brow lifting moments.

[ImaginaryMatter]

CronoDragoon wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...


Right. The question is why people are bothered by stuff in ME3 that didn't bother them in the other games.

For most people it's going to come back to the (extreme) emotional dissatisfaction they felt with the ending giving them a reason to obsess and pore over ME3's eye-brow lifting moments.

I think this. It's like a knitted sweater. If you notice one thread loose you tug on it unraveling the sweater even further. The ME3 ending is the loose thread. For ME1 and ME2 I guess it's a case of them not noticing that loose thread.

[N7Gold]

NeonFlux117 wrote...

Hehe. Yes.

Why indeed.

Go back to virmire and talk to Sovereign.

Remember-

"You evolve along the paths we desire".

Think about the crucible... universally readable schematics, passed down by cycle to cycle.... Reapers thought it was destroyed... But somehow the Catalyst knows what it will do.... .

Think about it.

The answers to the MEU are deeper than just the codex or what is shown to Shepard. You have to infer and connect the dots so to speak.

I like this human! He/She understands!

[shodiswe]

The switch was controlled by the Catalyst through the Keepers. The Proteans took away the Catalysts control over the Keepers..... Woops... Why can't I make the keepers turn that switch for me?!?

I'm thinking the Citadel and the Relays were created by the Leviathans and was used by them. Then they built the Catalyst on the Citadel to do research for them and gave it pawns, the Keepers and oculi and other transports to study the galaxy and the problem with Organics Vs Synthetics and then give them a solution.

The Citadel, the switch and the Catalyst was designed by the Leviathans and their thrall races, the Catalyst didn't design it and the Reapers were a later addition by the Catalyst.

The switches and functions of the citadel is older than the first Reaper or the cycles, and likely older than the Catalyst.

Modifié par shodiswe, 24 janvier 2014 - 04:22 .

[shodiswe]

It all makes sense if you look at it as events of a linear timeline.

Leviathans, Tharall races, Citadel, Relaysystem, ravaging AI's that didn't obey the Leviathans, the AI's were annihilated by the Leviathans and then the Leviathans designed the Catalyst to conduct research for them. The Catalyst or inteligence that the Leviathans called it was given resources for research.
The Catalyst came up with the cycle and harvested every advanced form of life to prevent the problem from happening.

Thousands of cycles later and hundreds of millions of years or bilions a few Protean survivors with a secret backdoor to the citadel disabled the Catalysts control of the Keepers.
The Proteans didn't know that the Inteligence was on the Citadel however, they might have known that the Citadel was the Catalyst for the Crusible but they had no Crusible and had no idea that the Reapers were controled from the Citadel.
Eventualy they died and the keepers cleaned up all the corpses and keept going in their endless maintenance cycles.

And there we go. The switches makes sense because the Citade and the Catalyst wasn't built by the Reapers, the Reapers were built by the Catalyst, and the Citadel and the Catalyst and the Relays were initialy built by the Leviathans.
The Reapers however keepts rebuilting and adding relays as needed ensuring the continuation of the cycles invented by the Catalyst, because the Catalyst ordered it and they had no choice but to obey.

[Wayning_Star]

I thought the leviathan told shepard that the catalyst built the citadel as it decided to overthrow them and harvest. I'm thinking the catalyst got it's harvest/reap concept from the leviathan. It's not in the lore or codex, but it would seem that the leviathan were harvesting thralls for what ever resources they needed or thralls could provide. I even suspect the levi was disposed by thralls creating life forms they could use against the leviathan, compete with them. Its possible that the leviathan are a bigger threat, per se than any reapers. The problem with that is we do know what a reaper will do via the catalyst through hind sight. We know little to nothing about leviathan eating habits...

[shodiswe]

The Reapers did build relays but there was no mention of them building the Citadel. It seems logical to assume the Inteligence was part of the Citadel and that it was a research station of the Leviathans.

Also when the leviathans tell you about their expans in the cosmos and their power, it looks like a relaynetwork and worlds nearby.

They likely used relays themselves. The Catalyst built more to conect to evolving worlds. They likely had to maintain and resupply them aswell.

There are also different types of Relays.