200 réponses à ce sujet

[Vexed Forest]

So I was watching this video and it said there was no passive health regen and limited potions 

This is purely my opinion, but I don't like this. Any game I've played that has included both of these has been annoying. It kind of forces you to min/max your build instead of playing what you think is fun. It also somewhat makes you play the way the devs want and not necessarily the way you want. I get that they are pushing more strategic elements but there are other ways to do this. And realism? This type of realism in video games annoyes me. You can break down a keep door with a sword (here) so.......I'm getting mixed messages.

Maybe it could be a toggleable option? The regen, not the potions. I think limited potions is fine by itself.

Anyway, thats just my opinion. I would like to know yours.

And on a sidenote, I know my destiny in DA:I is to be a Qunari mage. I hope I can accomplish this.

(I know its been discussed before, but I wanted to put my own opinion out there)

Modifié par Vexed Forest, 23 janvier 2014 - 12:14 .

[The Elder King]

Darrah later clarified that there'll be a treshold under which the health will regenerate. The treshold varies depending on the difficulty (example: at normal health regen up to 65%, at hard health regen up to 50%).

[Vexed Forest]

hhh89 wrote...

Darrah later clarified that there'll be a treshold under which the health will regenerate. The treshold varies depending on the difficulty (example: at normal health regen up to 65%, at hard health regen up to 50%).

This makes me feel a little better, but only a little. I still think this will annoy me quite a lot.

Modifié par Vexed Forest, 23 janvier 2014 - 12:29 .

[Akernis]

Vexed Forest wrote...
Maybe it could be a toggleable option? The regen, not the potions. I think limited potions is fine by itself.

They are not going to do that, they have already explained that people wants toogle options for everything, and each time they make one it has a really high chance of screwing up something else in the game, so they have to be really careful and playtest everything extensively, so they are not going to do so.

Vexed Forest wrote...

hhh89 wrote...

Darrah later clarified that there'll be a treshold under which the health will regenerate. The treshold varies depending on the difficulty (example: at normal health regen up to 65%, at hard health regen up to 50%).

This makes me feel a little better, but only a little. I still think this will annoy me quite a lot.

Sorry to say it, but when they show a feature it means that it has been game tested enough that they have added it to the finished game, so it is highly unlikely that they are going to change it now.
If you want fully healing then you can play on the lowest defficulty there you are healed back to full health after each combat. But if you want to play on higher defficulties then you will have to contend with limited healing.

I am not really for or against it, lowered healing makes for mor einteresting combats where you have to actually think instead of just down caring, but it can be annoying if you end up before tough fight without healing.

I think it would depend mostly on whether there is still healing magic, and if it is possible to boost passive healing artificially (gaining items or even passive abilities that add a small passive heal). If those thigns are still present I do not think the lowered post-battle healing will by annoiying for me at all.

Modifié par Akernis, 23 janvier 2014 - 12:59 .

[Jaison1986]

I wonder if mana regenerates fully. If that's the case just have an mage using healing spells after the battle is over.

[snackrat]

It is tied to difficulty. If you just want to have fun mucking around, play on the lowest difficulty where the regeneration threshold is much higher (perhaps even full, i.e. classic health regen). Or a lower difficulty, certainly.

[10K]

I really can't see the issue with health not regenerating after combat. As long as we get a companions whom can heal teammates I don't see a big deal. Especially if powers can be used outside of combat like in DA2. After combat just have your mage heal the party, wait for party heal to cool down then rinse and repeat. Problem solved.

If we get a mage companion up to par as Anders was, there really isn't anything to worry about. I never touched a healing potion in DA2. So if we have a great mage companion, I'm cool of what they're doing.

[Wulfram]

mosesarose wrote...

I really can't see the issue with health not regenerating after combat. As long as we get a companions whom can heal teammates I don't see a big deal. Especially if powers can be used outside of combat like in DA2. After combat just have your mage heal the party, wait for party heal to cool down then rinse and repeat. Problem solved.

If we get a mage companion up to par as Anders was, there really isn't anything to worry about. I never touched a healing potion in DA2. So if we have a great mage companion, I'm cool of what they're doing.

If it is like that, then what is this design choice doing except wasting our time?  And more or less forcing you to take a healer mage, I guess.

[10K]

Wulfram wrote...

mosesarose wrote...

I really can't see the issue with health not regenerating after combat. As long as we get a companions whom can heal teammates I don't see a big deal. Especially if powers can be used outside of combat like in DA2. After combat just have your mage heal the party, wait for party heal to cool down then rinse and repeat. Problem solved.

If we get a mage companion up to par as Anders was, there really isn't anything to worry about. I never touched a healing potion in DA2. So if we have a great mage companion, I'm cool of what they're doing.

If it is like that, then what is this design choice doing except wasting our time?  And more or less forcing you to take a healer mage, I guess.

I don't know what this design choice is for. But I know they're not just going to throw away healing magic. That would be a crazy move. Most likely there will be atleast one mage whom can heal. So as far as this design choice goes, I don't know why they are implementing it. All I do know is people shouldn't worry too much about it, because we'll more than likely have a healing mage whom will ultimately counteract this development choice.

Modifié par mosesarose, 23 janvier 2014 - 01:39 .

[Fast Jimmy]

mosesarose wrote...

Wulfram wrote...

mosesarose wrote...

I really can't see the issue with health not regenerating after combat. As long as we get a companions whom can heal teammates I don't see a big deal. Especially if powers can be used outside of combat like in DA2. After combat just have your mage heal the party, wait for party heal to cool down then rinse and repeat. Problem solved.

If we get a mage companion up to par as Anders was, there really isn't anything to worry about. I never touched a healing potion in DA2. So if we have a great mage companion, I'm cool of what they're doing.

If it is like that, then what is this design choice doing except wasting our time?  And more or less forcing you to take a healer mage, I guess.

I don't know what this design choice is for. But I know they're not just going to throw away healing magic. That would be a crazy move. Most likely there will be atleast one mage whom can heal. So as far as this design choice goes, I don't know why they are implementing it. All I do know is people shouldn't worry too much about it, because we'll more than likely have a healing mage whom will ultimately counteract this development choice.

Likely what they will do instead is also not have auto-regenerating mana.

We don't know if this is the case, but if not, I would agree the entire concept is a complete and total waste of eveyrone's time. Unless they someone nerf healing magic, where it can only heal up to a certain threshold as well? 

They can't have (semi) non-regening health and then also have regening mana. It completely breaks the entire design concept of making the player behave with caution instead of being able to run into any fight headlong and being able to come out without a scratch.

[10K]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

mosesarose wrote...

Wulfram wrote...

mosesarose wrote...

I really can't see the issue with health not regenerating after combat. As long as we get a companions whom can heal teammates I don't see a big deal. Especially if powers can be used outside of combat like in DA2. After combat just have your mage heal the party, wait for party heal to cool down then rinse and repeat. Problem solved.

If we get a mage companion up to par as Anders was, there really isn't anything to worry about. I never touched a healing potion in DA2. So if we have a great mage companion, I'm cool of what they're doing.

If it is like that, then what is this design choice doing except wasting our time?  And more or less forcing you to take a healer mage, I guess.

I don't know what this design choice is for. But I know they're not just going to throw away healing magic. That would be a crazy move. Most likely there will be atleast one mage whom can heal. So as far as this design choice goes, I don't know why they are implementing it. All I do know is people shouldn't worry too much about it, because we'll more than likely have a healing mage whom will ultimately counteract this development choice.

Likely what they will do instead is also not have auto-regenerating mana.

We don't know if this is the case, but if not, I would agree the entire concept is a complete and total waste of eveyrone's time. Unless they someone nerf healing magic, where it can only heal up to a certain threshold as well? 

They can't have (semi) non-regening health and then also have regening mana. It completely breaks the entire design concept of making the player behave with caution instead of being able to run into any fight headlong and being able to come out without a scratch.

Taking away regeneration mana would be nuts. I mean that's all mage abilities becoming useless after a certain point in battle. If they do that they'd have to do the same with stamina, and that would really brake the game. Imagine during a battle you have neither lyrium or stamina potions and everyone ran out of mana and stamina (it happens pretty quick) they wouldn't be able to execute any of their abilities. That would be crazy 

[Dean_the_Young]

Or, alternatively, it means the player didn't balance their resources. Which is what happens in a lot of other games.

Of course, mages don't have to regen out of combat if they regen in combat instead. Something like, say, the rogue 'restore per attack', or just over a period of combat time.

[10K]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Or, alternatively, it means the player didn't balance their resources. Which is what happens in a lot of other games.

Of course, mages don't have to regen out of combat if they regen in combat instead. Something like, say, the rogue 'restore per attack', or just over a period of combat time.

Now that could work.

[Jaison1986]

I just hope we don't have to deal with something like this:

*survives tough and unavoidable fight*

*realizes that everyone is low on health and potions are spent*

*run ALL the way back to the nearest shop*

*rinse and repeat several times during the game*

That would be unnecessarily time consuming.

[Fast Jimmy]

mosesarose wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Or, alternatively, it means the player didn't balance their resources. Which is what happens in a lot of other games.

Of course, mages don't have to regen out of combat if they regen in combat instead. Something like, say, the rogue 'restore per attack', or just over a period of combat time.

Now that could work.

It would be silly if it regen'd in combat alone, though. I agree with the "restored per attack" or something type method, but if it just them standing around, then all that will happen is the fight will happen until there is one enemy left, the player will kite while their Mage regens all of their mana, then they will kill the last enemy, heal all of the party members to full, and then move forward. Which, again, completely makes things useless.

I think a better way would be to have non-regenerating mana, but only have higher level spells (including healing spells) cost mana.

For instance, you can blast a fireball or iceblast spell all day long at enemies and not hurt your mana pool... but if you wanted to cast something intense, like Firestorm or a buff like Haste, it would then eat into your mana pool, which would not regen without a lyrium potion (and, as we have discussed, potions are supposed to be more limited in nature). That way, you get the right balance of combat effectiveness with Mages without making them silly or breaking the entire mechanics of the game.

[Star fury]

1. Click a party mage.
2. Find first mass health spell.
3. ???
4. Profit!

[CybAnt1]

Jaison1986 wrote...

I just hope we don't have to deal with something like this:

*survives tough and unavoidable fight*

*realizes that everyone is low on health and potions are spent*

*run ALL the way back to the nearest shop*

*rinse and repeat several times during the game*

That would be unnecessarily time consuming.

Man oh man, the good old days were not always good. I remember games where you couldn't bring healing with you and no passive regen. Period. So you were on level 2 of the dungeon with 5 levels. Tough fight. People massively wounded. Oh great, we've got to go all the way back to town, visit the temple for healing, then get back to where we left off, and continue working our way back down. Plus no scroll of teleport to bring you back to the town, or where you left off.

Ugggggh. I still get chills.  It is good some old school stuff died. 

[Fast Jimmy]

Jaison1986 wrote...

I just hope we don't have to deal with something like this:

*survives tough and unavoidable fight*

*realizes that everyone is low on health and potions are spent*

*run ALL the way back to the nearest shop*

*rinse and repeat several times during the game*

That would be unnecessarily time consuming.

I agree. I think enemies should move within an area to make easy back tracking to town dangerous, if not downright impossible.

[Fast Jimmy]

CybAnt1 wrote...

Jaison1986 wrote...

I just hope we don't have to deal with something like this:

*survives tough and unavoidable fight*

*realizes that everyone is low on health and potions are spent*

*run ALL the way back to the nearest shop*

*rinse and repeat several times during the game*

That would be unnecessarily time consuming.

Man oh man, the good old days were not always good. I remember games where you couldn't bring healing with you and no passive regen. Period. So you were on level 2 of the dungeon with 5 levels. Tough fight. People massively wounded. Oh great, we've got to go all the way back to town, visit the temple for healing, then get back to where we left off, and continue working our way back down. Plus no scroll of teleport to bring you back to the town, or where you left off.

Ugggggh. I still get chills.  It is good some old school stuff died. 

First, people hated having to back track to town, so they started giving healing items, like potions.

Then, people said it was silly they would need to plan ahead and know exactly what to buy, so they invented fast travel between areas.

Then, people said it took too long to walk through areas, so they invented teleport spells.

Then, people said it was bogus that you couldn't use teleport spells if your mage was low on mana, or how you could die if you didn't get your portal up soon enough, so they went with autoregen health and mana, all the time.

And then people complain about how encounter design in DA2 was so boring, because the only challenge enemies present is their massive health bars and waves of enemies. Well, of COURSE the challenge is gone... people have been practically begging developers to make it so they only way you can even remotely see a GAME OVER screen is if a group of mooks winds up wittling you down enough in one fight to do a party wipe. 



It's hard to have a system where the player has any other incentive to try and avoid combat in favor of diplomacy, bribery, stealth, traps, etc. when combat is made the insanely easier and less costly method, every time.

[CybAnt1]

There's a happy medium somewhere, mate.

There's no fun in trudging back and forth dungeon to town to dungeon, 50 times. I hear we are getting ground mounts for DAI because of the bigger areas.

I don't play on Nightmare. Just not my thing. But maybe to please the other side, keep working on making it harder, harder, harder.

I'm not against making the player do a bit of resource management - just don't let it reach maddening tedium, either. Find the happy medium.

[In Exile]

Fast Jimmy wrote...
I agree. I think enemies should move within an area to make easy back tracking to town dangerous, if not downright impossible.

So then the re-load button just becomes the passive regen. Everyone will just set it up so they can absolutely curbstom every encounter with 100% perfect health and little mana use. 

And if you force people against that, then you'll eventually have your game just thrown away.

Actively creating aggravation for players is probably the worst design choice ever. I will never understand the desire to, rather than make the game challenging, just actively punish players. 

[luckycooky25]

I think is briliant of bioware that install this. After Da 2 everyone including myself was yelling to we wanted have more choices.Well this Mod goes hand in hand whit it

so you want more choices and more feeling that is you are in charge of your own person then is good thing to think about. I like alot the we now have think before we act

also that have said that you can make potions so if long you geth mats and one party member whit that proffesion you should bee fine
you can take healer whit you
and you can let cassandra tank.

and then are you fine to bee and dress how ever you want

[In Exile]

Fast Jimmy wrote...
First, people hated having to back track to town, so they started giving healing items, like potions.

Becase there was no difference between healing on the spot and travelling back, other than wasting time (in those games). 

Then, people said it was silly they would need to plan ahead and know exactly what to buy, so they invented fast travel between areas.

That's not why fast travel exists. It exists to save time (because it's stupid to walk back through cleared screens). 

And very, very few games meaningfully ever require planning ahead in a way that doesn't either (a) always mean using the exact same plan everywhere or ( gaming the encounter because it's totally unpredictable and requires foreknowledge. 

Then, people said it took too long to walk through areas, so they invented teleport spells.

This is just your fast travel complaint.

And then people complain about how encounter design in DA2 was so boring, because the only challenge enemies present is their massive health bars and waves of enemies. Well, of COURSE the challenge is gone... people have been practically begging developers to make it so they only way you can even remotely see a GAME OVER screen is if a group of mooks winds up wittling you down enough in one fight to do a party wipe.

No. That's because RPG game design is garbage, and when you get rid of all this artificial inventory accounting difficulty, you realize the combat is literally about making the other side's number go down faster. 

Look at XCOM. It's not about fast travel. It's not about inventory tetris. It's about the actual combat mechanics. And RPG mechanics range from stupid and absurd to pointless. 

[Spectre slayer]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

mosesarose wrote...

Wulfram wrote...

mosesarose wrote...

I really can't see the issue with health not regenerating after combat. As long as we get a companions whom can heal teammates I don't see a big deal. Especially if powers can be used outside of combat like in DA2. After combat just have your mage heal the party, wait for party heal to cool down then rinse and repeat. Problem solved.

If we get a mage companion up to par as Anders was, there really isn't anything to worry about. I never touched a healing potion in DA2. So if we have a great mage companion, I'm cool of what they're doing.

If it is like that, then what is this design choice doing except wasting our time?  And more or less forcing you to take a healer mage, I guess.

I don't know what this design choice is for. But I know they're not just going to throw away healing magic. That would be a crazy move. Most likely there will be atleast one mage whom can heal. So as far as this design choice goes, I don't know why they are implementing it. All I do know is people shouldn't worry too much about it, because we'll more than likely have a healing mage whom will ultimately counteract this development choice.

Likely what they will do instead is also not have auto-regenerating mana.

We don't know if this is the case, but if not, I would agree the entire concept is a complete and total waste of eveyrone's time. Unless they someone nerf healing magic, where it can only heal up to a certain threshold as well? 

They can't have (semi) non-regening health and then also have regening mana. It completely breaks the entire design concept of making the player behave with caution instead of being able to run into any fight headlong and being able to come out without a scratch.

No they aren't going to do that since Laidlaw already confirmed that mana does regain on his Twitter account but wasn't to specific beyond that only saying that it will and that more information will be coming.


There are healing spells but i'm not sure what the out of combat healing will work, will it have any penalties, or regain at slower rates, etc.

They are not going to do that, they have already explained that people wants toogle options for everything, and each time they make one it has a really high chance of screwing up something else in the game, so they have to be really careful and playtest everything extensively, so they are not going to do so.

Not exactly, Darrah already mentioned that it's likely that they will make an additional toogle independent of the difficulty ones to heal fully, also the regains themselves will probably be a lot less than people think consideringDarrah said and I quote " Normal difficulty will have a very small one" and Laidlaw said duringon of the ppodcasts that an ko'd person will get back up and be injured and that the amount of health they have won't be to generous.

Anyway they might make a few like the ones( all auto attack, the full heal one, hide helmet) they mentioned but they aren't going to go toggle crazy and just create a ton of them for no reason.

Modifié par Spectre slayer, 23 janvier 2014 - 03:06 .

[Wulfram]

Slow travel is just fast travel but more tedious. They have the same gameplay implications. If you want to make no health regen meaningful, you need to disable or add consequences to both, as well as strictly limiting healing resources.

XCOM is a good example of doing that, actually. You can't just stop a mission half way through and get healed up - retreat means defeat. But that design seems difficult to reconcile with an "open world" sort of philosophy.

The timer seen in the PAX gameplay video might be important, though. If travel takes time and taking too much time means failure, and healing up your party also means using up time, that would mean that you couldn't heal up free of consequence. The only problem is that I know a lot of people hate being on a timer, so I can't see that being a standard mechanic.

I don't think you need incentives to make people choose diplomacy or stealth or whatever if those options exist - just make sure that the player isn't getting screwed on XP. Lots of people choose stealth in Dishonoured or Deus Ex, despite it really being pretty easy to just shoot everyone. Of course the difference is that stealth gameplay in those is fun and reasonably challenging, which is difficult to achieve in a party game, and to be honest even in solo with true RPG mechanics.