200 réponses à ce sujet

[CybAnt1]

Still got a black box so I can't quote anybody.

I thought BG1's one redeeming feature was the 25 recruitable companions for your party of 6. Hell, they were even nicely broken down in alignments, with 9 being good, and 8 being neutral or evil.

Granted, of course, that was selecting from 7 possible races (elf, dwarf, human, plus drow, gnome, halfling, half-elf), and the 11 possible classes, including the companions who were multi-classed or dual-classed as fighter/thief, fighter/mage, etc.

No game has ever offered that much choice & variety. A lot of BG1 was the constant "wander & swap" of party members, as you kept constantly running into more. Of course there was no depth to companion interaction - there were 25 possible companions!

Ultimately, I guess, that was a bit of overkill, but just remember that next time someone comes along saying your choice of 9 is not enough.

[seraphymon]

Of course in any game there are gonna be tons of fights that are just trash and easily beaten. But I really had to think my first time through DAO. The wilds in Ostagar I remember dying to huge groups stationed or that first emissary on the bridge. The carta boss I do remember stumping me too, because of the reinforcements and all the traps conveniently set up. There were more things wrong with DA2 combat IMO, that go into different topics but really only the sarebaas was the only common threat I found, assassins to a lesser degree. What was good about DAO is that I could see the enemies about and actually plan, DA2 there was none of that or very little in DLC.

I too agree and have said that it would be pointless if a mage can just overcome this gimmick and only serve to be time consuming. I am not sure how they plan to cover all areas when it pertains to this feature, all I can do is base of what is known so far.

[Ghost]

Doesn't ME3 already do this?

[DooomCookie]

If you want to play 'fun', that'll work. Just lower the difficulty level. It's more of a gameplay shift than a difficulty change and won't affect builds and playstyles.

[philippe willaume]

hello
yes auto-regen mana+heal spell is just a slower version of health auto-regen
as long as there is a free way to regain health , player time is very often going to be the more efficient mitigation that game play tactics/options.

and that is what need to change, as by definition if you want to have an effective limited health (i.e. no free way to regain health over a certain level.) You need to have a way to maximize the damage given vs the damage taken,
- having way to make it very difficult to hit/damage or a the performance of the enemy
- Group tactics that multiply the normal damage output
- non combat way to complete the encounters (i.e. get the XP which is important because in level game the char performance depends on his level.)

The problem with that is that if each encounter is a guess game to find the enemies weakness. it ends up a being a try-and-reload. so there should be a scooting/information gathering phase.

So you would end up needing some what more versatile classes, the ability to use terrain (slopes chokes points and use terrain hazard).
So for example to pass a gate, you could fight you way in, or have the mage do "those are not the droid you are looking for, our documents are in order", or having the as well sending the rogue to sneakily open the gate or falsify documents. (all the non combat option are just use of skill and talents.

as well really a companion that goes down in a combat phase, he/she should be replaced by an another companion until for a given period.

Phil

[Sylvius the Mad]

CybAnt1 wrote...

Still got a black box so I can't quote anybody.

Sure you can. You just need to type out the quote tags manually.

Like I did now.

[Rotward]

If it's being handled similarly to ME3 health, it'll be fine. If it's just a gimmick to make combat harder, then it'll be annoying. By gimmick I mean toying with damage output and health pools, rather than improving AI.

[Realmzmaster]

I would rather see both health and mana non-regenerating. If that is not the case then both health and mana should only regenerate to a certain level depending on difficulty. I want to see that taking of a potion to be an important tactical and strategic decision.

DAO allowed for a tremendous amount of potion spamming. It did not matter if health or mana regenerated slowly. The number of potions the party could make once the party discover that the Dalish had all the elfroot and the Circle tower had lyrium dust was amazing. That number of potions make any strategic decisions DAO may have had an non-issue.

The wave system of combat does not bother me. I always expect reinforcements to come and I plan accordingly, I do not blow everything on the enemies I see. I do my best to calculate the minimum amount of force I will need to win.

I also believe in keeping all my party members mobile able to shift position when tactics call for it. Mobile artillery (mage or archer) is a whole lot harder to hit if on the move.

[The Baconer]

Now that I think about it, I wonder if they'll be using something like the "threshold" or "gray health" used in Dragon's Dogma. The gray bar represented health that could be recovered using healing spells, but restoration beyond that required consumables.

[Mr.House]

There should be no regen at all, it's called stock up and approach battles smart.

[n7stormrunner]

Realmzmaster wrote...

I would rather see both health and mana non-regenerating. If that is not the case then both health and mana should only regenerate to a certain level depending on difficulty. I want to see that taking of a potion to be an important tactical and strategic decision.

DAO allowed for a tremendous amount of potion spamming. It did not matter if health or mana regenerated slowly. The number of potions the party could make once the party discover that the Dalish had all the elfroot and the Circle tower had lyrium dust was amazing. That number of potions make any strategic decisions DAO may have had an non-issue.

The wave system of combat does not bother me. I always expect reinforcements to come and I plan accordingly, I do not blow everything on the enemies I see. I do my best to calculate the minimum amount of force I will need to win.

I also believe in keeping all my party members mobile able to shift position when tactics call for it. Mobile artillery (mage or archer) is a whole lot harder to hit if on the move.

I'd prefer it stay as is. I've played games with nonregening mana it always turns into potion spaming or "lets go back to base/save point for the 50th time this level" and that just fake longevity, would you prefer a 50 hour game of 10 hour quests 40 backtracking or 50 hours of quests?

that not getting to the fact it makes no sense for mana not regenerate . being magic stamina you don't keep out breath in less you break a rib or something right?

[Mr.House]

n7stormrunner wrote...

Realmzmaster wrote...

I would rather see both health and mana non-regenerating. If that is not the case then both health and mana should only regenerate to a certain level depending on difficulty. I want to see that taking of a potion to be an important tactical and strategic decision.

DAO allowed for a tremendous amount of potion spamming. It did not matter if health or mana regenerated slowly. The number of potions the party could make once the party discover that the Dalish had all the elfroot and the Circle tower had lyrium dust was amazing. That number of potions make any strategic decisions DAO may have had an non-issue.

The wave system of combat does not bother me. I always expect reinforcements to come and I plan accordingly, I do not blow everything on the enemies I see. I do my best to calculate the minimum amount of force I will need to win.

I also believe in keeping all my party members mobile able to shift position when tactics call for it. Mobile artillery (mage or archer) is a whole lot harder to hit if on the move.

I'd prefer it stay as is. I've played games with nonregening mana it always turns into potion spaming or "lets go back to base/save point for the 50th time this level" and that just fake longevity, would you prefer a 50 hour game of 10 hour quests 40 backtracking or 50 hours of quests?

that not getting to the fact it makes no sense for mana not regenerate . being magic stamina you don't keep out breath in less you break a rib or something right?

You need to play more games then.

[n7stormrunner]

Mr.House wrote...

n7stormrunner wrote...

Realmzmaster wrote...

I would rather see both health and mana non-regenerating. If that is not the case then both health and mana should only regenerate to a certain level depending on difficulty. I want to see that taking of a potion to be an important tactical and strategic decision.

DAO allowed for a tremendous amount of potion spamming. It did not matter if health or mana regenerated slowly. The number of potions the party could make once the party discover that the Dalish had all the elfroot and the Circle tower had lyrium dust was amazing. That number of potions make any strategic decisions DAO may have had an non-issue.

The wave system of combat does not bother me. I always expect reinforcements to come and I plan accordingly, I do not blow everything on the enemies I see. I do my best to calculate the minimum amount of force I will need to win.

I also believe in keeping all my party members mobile able to shift position when tactics call for it. Mobile artillery (mage or archer) is a whole lot harder to hit if on the move.

I'd prefer it stay as is. I've played games with nonregening mana it always turns into potion spaming or "lets go back to base/save point for the 50th time this level" and that just fake longevity, would you prefer a 50 hour game of 10 hour quests 40 backtracking or 50 hours of quests?

that not getting to the fact it makes no sense for mana not regenerate . being magic stamina you don't keep out breath in less you break a rib or something right?

You need to play more games then.

you gonna pay for them? got any ideas? I've played every kind of game, short of h games and dating sims. I've never seen a game yet the worked like that. oh sure in theory they do all the time. but you know the problem with theories right?

[seraphymon]

Stocking up and approaching battles is of course obvious but when you don't know whats a head it can be hard to predict without trial and error. I do agree that the potions in DAO was way too excessive but that is combat aside, that wasn't a combat gimmick/ Potions aside, I thought DAo had a good balanced system in that. DA2 the waves was just wrong.. I don't mind some if it makes sense like some of the DLC waves, but just for adding more baddies to fight like some sort of paper clip or band aid is just silly. in DA2 with almost every single fight being of wave, after a certain point then yes you would expect it.

[The Hierophant]

I'm glad potion spamming is just a consequence of player incompetence, and is avoidable. Though, i doubt the devs won't take into consideration the players who aren't combat gameplay savvy.

[-Skorpious-]

I have no qualms with the change if it means BioWare will move away from DA2's godawful tendency to give elite and boss enemies ridiculously large health pools; such mechanics only make a game frustrating instead of challenging.

Plus, they could go the route of Dark Souls and scatter camps around the map that completely restore your party thresholds should you choose to use them. It would make sense considering DAI's overworld is much larger than its predecessors, and it will mitigate the amount of backtracking some users are speculating being a possible issue with the new mechanic.

[n7stormrunner]

-Skorpious- wrote...

I have no qualms with the change if it means BioWare will move away from DA2's godawful tendency to give elite and boss enemies ridiculously large health pools; such mechanics only make a game frustrating instead of challenging.

Plus, they could go the route of Dark Souls and scatter camps around the map that completely restore your party thresholds should you choose to use them. It would make sense considering DAI's overworld is much larger than its predecessors, and it will mitigate the amount of backtracking some users are speculating being a possible issue with the new mechanic.

I know what your mean and agree with what your saying but da doesn't have an overworld... at all. it's just larger maps. I know it's nitpicking but this forum does that to me.

[-Skorpious-]

n7stormrunner wrote...

-Skorpious- wrote...

I have no qualms with the change if it means BioWare will move away from DA2's godawful tendency to give elite and boss enemies ridiculously large health pools; such mechanics only make a game frustrating instead of challenging.

Plus, they could go the route of Dark Souls and scatter camps around the map that completely restore your party thresholds should you choose to use them. It would make sense considering DAI's overworld is much larger than its predecessors, and it will mitigate the amount of backtracking some users are speculating being a possible issue with the new mechanic.

I know what your mean and agree with what your saying but da doesn't have an overworld... at all. it's just larger maps. I know it's nitpicking but this forum does that to me.

Overworld sounded nicer than plain old "areas" or "maps". 

[superdeathdealer14]

Something tells me that DAI is just a more forgiving version of this.

[The Hierophant]

lol. That gif reminds me of my first encounter with a red eyed knight in Demon's Souls.

[Spectre slayer]

-Skorpious- wrote...

n7stormrunner wrote...

-Skorpious- wrote...
I have no qualms with the change if it means BioWare will move away from DA2's godawful tendency to give elite and boss enemies ridiculously large health pools; such mechanics only make a game frustratalchemists instead of challenging. 
Plus, they could go the route of Dark Souls and scatter camps around the map that completely restore your party thresholds should you choose to use them. It would make sense considering DAI's overworld is much larger than its predecessors, and it will mitigate the amount of backtracking some users are speculating being a possible issue with the new mechanic.

I know what your mean and agree with what your saying but da doesn't have an overworld... at all. it's just larger maps. I know it's nitpicking but this forum does that to me.

Overworld sounded nicer than plain old "areas" or "maps". 

That's sort of the approach they're taking. There's a number of keeps, strongholds, outposts, and fortresses scattered about in each region, some occupied and some not.
When we find or take them over we can designate them with one of 3 functions and we can travel back to them to heal, have the alchemists craft your potions or buy them.

It adds a layer of stratey to the games, and planning, like how many potions you have left, where your objective at and is there any of your bases nearby or a town, is there an outpost or fortress or stronghold near you that you can take over or siege it,  did you take advantage of the alchemy system and a many other factors.

I've played and owned plenty of games that don't have any regain at all and I had no problem with this function and it seems like some people are exaggerating on the amount of times that you need to run back to camps to heal.

[Realmzmaster]

n7stormrunner wrote...

Realmzmaster wrote...

I would rather see both health and mana non-regenerating. If that is not the case then both health and mana should only regenerate to a certain level depending on difficulty. I want to see that taking of a potion to be an important tactical and strategic decision.

DAO allowed for a tremendous amount of potion spamming. It did not matter if health or mana regenerated slowly. The number of potions the party could make once the party discover that the Dalish had all the elfroot and the Circle tower had lyrium dust was amazing. That number of potions make any strategic decisions DAO may have had an non-issue.

The wave system of combat does not bother me. I always expect reinforcements to come and I plan accordingly, I do not blow everything on the enemies I see. I do my best to calculate the minimum amount of force I will need to win.

I also believe in keeping all my party members mobile able to shift position when tactics call for it. Mobile artillery (mage or archer) is a whole lot harder to hit if on the move.

I'd prefer it stay as is. I've played games with nonregening mana it always turns into potion spaming or "lets go back to base/save point for the 50th time this level" and that just fake longevity, would you prefer a 50 hour game of 10 hour quests 40 backtracking or 50 hours of quests?

that not getting to the fact it makes no sense for mana not regenerate . being magic stamina you don't keep out breath in less you break a rib or something right?

I have cut my teeth on games with non-regenerating health and mana (Might and Magic, Wizardry, Ultima etc) and did not have to spam potions nor keep running back to base/save point. For me it all come down to planning the strategy and tactics.

I prefer non-regenerating health and mana, friendly fire, eating, drinking, sleep and weather effects. I also like perma death. I find DA games to be more RPG-lite when it comes to the combat system and especially in regards to consequences ffrom decisions made.

There is no consequence in battle when you know the party member is going to get up right after battle with both health and mana fully restored.

[n7stormrunner]

Realmzmaster wrote...

n7stormrunner wrote...

Realmzmaster wrote...

I would rather see both health and mana non-regenerating. If that is not the case then both health and mana should only regenerate to a certain level depending on difficulty. I want to see that taking of a potion to be an important tactical and strategic decision.

DAO allowed for a tremendous amount of potion spamming. It did not matter if health or mana regenerated slowly. The number of potions the party could make once the party discover that the Dalish had all the elfroot and the Circle tower had lyrium dust was amazing. That number of potions make any strategic decisions DAO may have had an non-issue.

The wave system of combat does not bother me. I always expect reinforcements to come and I plan accordingly, I do not blow everything on the enemies I see. I do my best to calculate the minimum amount of force I will need to win.

I also believe in keeping all my party members mobile able to shift position when tactics call for it. Mobile artillery (mage or archer) is a whole lot harder to hit if on the move.

I'd prefer it stay as is. I've played games with nonregening mana it always turns into potion spaming or "lets go back to base/save point for the 50th time this level" and that just fake longevity, would you prefer a 50 hour game of 10 hour quests 40 backtracking or 50 hours of quests?

that not getting to the fact it makes no sense for mana not regenerate . being magic stamina you don't keep out breath in less you break a rib or something right?

I have cut my teeth on games with non-regenerating health and mana (Might and Magic, Wizardry, Ultima etc) and did not have to spam potions nor keep running back to base/save point. For me it all come down to planning the strategy and tactics.

I prefer non-regenerating health and mana, friendly fire, eating, drinking, sleep and weather effects. I also like perma death. I find DA games to be more RPG-lite when it comes to the combat system and especially in regards to consequences ffrom decisions made.

There is no consequence in battle when you know the party member is going to get up right after battle with both health and mana fully restored.

I tried one of the ultima games once... I couldn't figure out anything at all, I mean literally anything. in 20 years of gaming thats the only time thats happened to me.

[seraphymon]

I wouldn't mind limited potions, friendly fire like DAO not DA2, eating and or drinking and weather effects too. AS for death, depends how its handle. Something like final fantasy where you have a limited amount of time to resurrect the party member or risk losing them forever.. But thing is, with a game like dragon age, Some companions cannot die or leave the party since they are vital to the story. Some I know can die or leave, but ones like Morrigan, Alistair, varric are, so perma death isn't gonna happen.

However there are games I have played where if they are down, you have to resurrect them, if not they are permanently knocked out unless you visit a hub and instead you can choose to switch them out with another companion, which was something like Star ocean.

[philippe willaume]

Realmzmaster wrote...

n7stormrunner wrote...

Realmzmaster wrote...

I would rather see both health and mana non-regenerating. If that is not the case then both health and mana should only regenerate to a certain level depending on difficulty. I want to see that taking of a potion to be an important tactical and strategic decision.

DAO allowed for a tremendous amount of potion spamming. It did not matter if health or mana regenerated slowly. The number of potions the party could make once the party discover that the Dalish had all the elfroot and the Circle tower had lyrium dust was amazing. That number of potions make any strategic decisions DAO may have had an non-issue.

The wave system of combat does not bother me. I always expect reinforcements to come and I plan accordingly, I do not blow everything on the enemies I see. I do my best to calculate the minimum amount of force I will need to win.

I also believe in keeping all my party members mobile able to shift position when tactics call for it. Mobile artillery (mage or archer) is a whole lot harder to hit if on the move.

I'd prefer it stay as is. I've played games with nonregening mana it always turns into potion spaming or "lets go back to base/save point for the 50th time this level" and that just fake longevity, would you prefer a 50 hour game of 10 hour quests 40 backtracking or 50 hours of quests?

that not getting to the fact it makes no sense for mana not regenerate . being magic stamina you don't keep out breath in less you break a rib or something right?

I have cut my teeth on games with non-regenerating health and mana (Might and Magic, Wizardry, Ultima etc) and did not have to spam potions nor keep running back to base/save point. For me it all come down to planning the strategy and tactics.

I prefer non-regenerating health and mana, friendly fire, eating, drinking, sleep and weather effects. I also like perma death. I find DA games to be more RPG-lite when it comes to the combat system and especially in regards to consequences ffrom decisions made.

There is no consequence in battle when you know the party member is going to get up right after battle with both health and mana fully restored.

helloI think you have a very valid argument but i think the non combat regen is equally valid. 
And may be we are  looking at helth regen is the wrong way to go about the problem.

The games you mentioned basically made resource management and pre planing the path of least resistance/at least a viable option.  And i think that the key point.
Even more so if the game kicks you bottom when unprepared, which means that in between fight health management is not really a viable option to start with. 
But to be Honnest, IN DA:0 I ran sub-optimal party and I seldom reloaded for better result , used potion, or waited around for health re-gen.
For me there was enough basic tactical construct that I could use so that I could created a massive damage differential in my favour and that became the path of least resistance. in other term it was more efficient that health management.With the use of scouting (rogue or survial skill) you could have an good idea of what was ahead and plan accordingly and hence manage your resource accordingly.The only that I found missing was the ability to resolve the situation via no combat means, at least once and a while.In that respect, i found it very close to x-com, Silent storm and the like.
In DA: 2 due to the way companion control and terrain management was implemented, optimal build and health managemant were the path of least resistance.

So provided that we have enough technical constructs and means to gather information to plan effectively and those tactical construct deliver enough damage differentials.
Slowly re-gen/regen up to thereshold does not have such an impact on that part of game play.

We know that health will auto-regenarte up to a given % acording to the difficulty level.  
So you either :

• Try to fragment the opposition into piece-meal fights with lots of breathers and potion up only for big events and or have a telling level differential.
•  Use tactics and pre-planing (either to fight, use no combat skills to help the fight or avoid fighting.)

Having fully regenrative mana and healing spells, really has no bearing on wich option, we will chose but what we can achieve at the tactical level will.  As Spectre slay­er­ mentioned in an other thread on the same subject. It is more a matter of the player having a meaningfull choice rather that having game mechanics forcing it. (I did not quite get it at first because i saw dark soul combat avoidance as imposed on me and not a deliberate choice)to put it an other way

You can even have regenerating mana and  healing spells only restoring hit point over a certain threshold.ie your auto-health regeneration is  30 % of it points, a health spell will get you at 50%. and hend  re-casting will not increase that limit.you still basically have the same two options as before- healing often and if possible overleveling and potion up for big event- use tatics and pre-planing to create a good damage differential or resolve the situation via non combat skills.
and if the second is a viable option and you like that type of play, You will chose it if it is availiable.phil