17 réponses à ce sujet

[Saikyo_McRyu]

Hat tip: After searching, I found ZombieJohn84 had mentioned this in passing a couple of years ago.

After finishing ME3 the first time, and while playing the trilogy, I started thinking about other well-known works that discuss the nature of artificial intelligence and what it means to be alive or have a soul. You know, Ghost in the Shell (the manga version was my favorite), Battlestar Galactica (2004), Blade Runner, and the thousands of other examples I am overlooking to save space.

So one that pops into my head is Star Trek: The Motion Picture. I've watched it a few times, and like it well enough, mostly because I'm a Jerry Goldsmith fan and his score for ST:TMP may be his best score. In fact, the movie works better if you treat it like one long music video.

Anyway, I started thinking about what ST:TMP and Mass Effect 3's endings have in common. In particular, I remembered the images from the final showdown with V'ger, what with Kirk, Spock, McCoy, Decker, and Robo-Ilya/V'ger Proxy standing in a brooding arena...



with Earth under threat of destruction from an all-powerful and highly misguided synthetic intelligence.

Then, of course, they push that controller heroically forward for several minutes and choose Synthesis. Decker even gets to show off his best impersonation of the Catalyst.



Followed by a big ole green blue explosion.



After which, well, DeckerIlya McV'Ger goes off and meditates somewhere in perfect harmony. I guess (I didn't spend that long on Memory Alpha). Cue discussion on Meaning of Life among remaining cast.

So I guess that's where my comparison between ME3 and ST:TMP ends. TMP was never all that popular, certainly not like Wrath of Khan, and was probably too insignificant in the annals of fandom to influence a major video game series.



Oh.




Concept artist Steve Burg has a much better image that I don't want to post here for copyright reasons.

[Animositisomina]

[MayonnaiseNipple]

Monty Hall wrote...

Is that supposed to be a Collector ship?

[shodiswe]

There are similarities but, the differences are huge.

V'ger wated something for itself, it's quest for personal development and advancement wasn't for all synthetics, or for the betterment of all organics or anyone else. V'ger, just wanted to join with one of it's creators to end it's isolation and solitude and to hopefully understand why.

V'ger had the answer/s, but it wanted the real questions, it wanted to understand, and it was also very lonely.

It was more like a "lonely space thing" mets a space friend who accepted it. Happy ending, even if it almost seemed like a shotgun weding.

V'ger didn't know it's creator, but it knew/belived that the creator would be the one who knew the secret code. Maybe it just wanted to get to know it's mommy or daddy. (which would be kind of freaky if you consider the scene that followed.)

Modifié par shodiswe, 23 janvier 2014 - 06:21 .

[SwobyJ]

Among a lot of sci-fi, STTMP is something I've considered for a while to be an influence to ME3.

So I'm totally with you, OP.

@shodiswe, well yes, it isn't like a copypaste. We can't have the Reaper God actually, you know, be NICE (etc).

However, I like to consider the implications of a lot of things being similar.

It would require looking at the story non-literally though. Heck, or even wondering if 'leaks' like 'Mass Shift' have legitimacy.

Nah, the Catalyst isn't V'ger, but I do wonder about it playing a role in things that we're not aware of yet, despite potential protests from fans.

[jamesp81]

Remember the rule about Trek movies: the odd numbered ones are bad. Well, except 3 which was pretty good (IMO) and Nemesis, which was terribad.

[MattFini]

I don't subscribe to that rule.

TMP is my favorite TREK movie.

I also enjoy THE FINAL FRONTIER for some reason.

Modifié par MattFini, 24 janvier 2014 - 04:45 .

[Mr.House]

TMP was crap, and this is from a big Trek fan.

[jmark22]

Mr.House wrote...

TMP was crap, and this is from a big Trek fan.

Yeah, well, that's just, like your opinion, man.

[KaiserShep]

Mr.House wrote...

TMP was crap, and this is from a big Trek fan.

Overall, I'd say that the Star Trek film franchise is largely mediocre. This includes JJ Abrams contribution, especially Into Darkness. It was clearly better suited for television.

[Obadiah]

There are some great parallels between the Catalyst and V'ger.

I don't think either of them have emotion. One of the best scenes in TMP is when Spock comes back to the Enterprise, takes Kirk's hand, and smiles at his understanding of friendship that V'ger cannot, for all its vast intellectual power, experience.

Spock asserted, "V'ger is a child," which is the image that the Catalyst presents. I see a greater parallel between V'ger and the Geth with respect to this comment though.

The thing I always liked about Star Trek was the mission of discovery aspect. Some of that was in there in ME1 with all the desolate planets and strange lifeforms, and then largely used as a foundation to build upon in subsequent games for the story.

Some parallel but not so similar stuff:
- V'ger makes drones from people that seem to still have an emotional sense of their original selves
- Reapers indoctrinate and control people who still have some sense of themselves

- Voyager was sent out on a mission with the purpose of exploration and after it is upgraded V'ger continues to attempt to carry out that purpose with overpowering destructive consequences.
- The Catalyst as it gathers power continues to attempt to carry out its purpose with overpowering destructive consequences. 

Modifié par Obadiah, 24 janvier 2014 - 05:08 .

[Kel Riever]

Star Trek: The Motion Picture. Remembered for always as the most boring Star Trek movie ever made. And that's saying something.

I love me my Star Trek, but Wrath of Khan brought that back from the brink.

Modifié par Kel Riever, 24 janvier 2014 - 05:31 .

[Kel Riever]

double post

Modifié par Kel Riever, 24 janvier 2014 - 05:36 .

[dreamgazer]

Yeah, but The Motion Picture was remembered for being boring because Robert Wise tried to ape Tarkovsky and deliver far more Enterprise money shots than it needed. Pacing in that movie was atrocious.

[Kel Riever]

@dg: I think I actually times the amount of time they spent running the camera over the Enterprise when you first see it at 15 minutes.

15 minutes of orchestra and looking at the stationary enterprise.

So, yeah, pacing. Just god awful. Actually I think the plot sucked too. But not nearly as much as the pacing.  Again, that is saying something here....because my god, plot fail!

Anyway, the best part of that movie? The opening scene with the Klingons. Watch it then turn it off.

Modifié par Kel Riever, 24 janvier 2014 - 05:38 .

[AlanC9]

dreamgazer wrote...

Yeah, but The Motion Picture was remembered for being boring because Robert Wise tried to ape Tarkovsky and deliver far more Enterprise money shots than it needed. Pacing in that movie was atrocious.

Just watched Solaris the other day on TCM. Yeah, not the best model for Trek; when Trek does philosophy it breezes through it fast.

[Jorji Costava]

AlanC9 wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

Yeah, but The Motion Picture was remembered for being boring because Robert Wise tried to ape Tarkovsky and deliver far more Enterprise money shots than it needed. Pacing in that movie was atrocious.

Just watched Solaris the other day on TCM. Yeah, not the best model for Trek; when Trek does philosophy it breezes through it fast.

What's worse is that for all its slowness, TMP breezes through its philosophy very quickly, particularly in that final scene inside V'ger: "What it needs in order to evolve . . . is a human quality. Our capacity to leap . . . beyond logic." An on-the-nose exchange like this would never occur in the films TMP is so desperately trying to ape.

I suppose it doesn't help that Shatner's performance in the film is awful: "Goddammit Bones, I need you . . . badly" (then Bones proceeds to do next to nothing for the entire film).

[Obadiah]

I'm not even sure what leaping beyond logic means. Philosophers are always using logic along with their best understanding of ourselves to try to explain the human condition.

Still, I did like that scene with Spock suddenly smiling.