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[leaguer of one]

I'd say a lot more than some Dalish view themselves as the 'true elves' though. Their whole culture is reclaiming what the elves once were and becoming like their ancestors. And they have shown a common line of thinking that those elves not part of the Dalish need to be educated. We have yet to meet a single clan that contradicts that. 

 

While I don't deny the City Elves will have radicals among them that will cause problems(one of them is the wielder of a superweapon right now in the form of the Eluvian Network), my concerns for who will push themselves on the others is more towards the Dalish since they've shown a mindset of it while no City Elves have shown themselves as wanting to un-Dalish the Dalish. 

It's a double edge sword. The dalish had a pride in themselves that any city elf would crave for.(That is one of the things my city elf like Velanna  for.) but at that same pride lead to such hubris. They never that the time to think or understand they many be doing wrong.

[Kidd]

I believe Celene drew her weapons on Briala first, and I think she asked Celene about the plight of the elves so that Celene would be honest with herself. I think Briala knew at the end that the elves were never going to see the freedom Briala hoped they would get. Celene did not even have a plan; she had words she told her lover, and yes, I know she probably meant them when she said them, but I think Briala knew she really couldn't deliver.

Ugh, stop making so much sense.   Yes, I'm pretty sure you're right. I guess I just really wanted Celene to stay true to her promises. It would have been so glorious, had it not? The empress herself announcing that elves were to be equal to humans, with Briala as their Comtess. I was really looking forward to that. xD
 

As for the ring, it showed the wearer openings. I don't recall anywhere where it stated or implied that it was used to make someone fall in love with someone else. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

I didn't mean it like that. Sorry, my sleepy head didn't make much sense yesterday.

After Celene explains the ring helped her never lose her wits, Briala says that Celene's never losing them was part of what made her so attractive. Re-reading the passage I guess it could have been meant as a reassurance on Briala's part, an implication that Celene didn't need the ring. On my first read yesterday, I read it as Briala declaring to both of them how one of Celene's most attractive traits was not actually her own, but rather something she gained by wearing the ring.
 

I have to say, I hope Briala and Celene do NOT get back together. Celene had her parents murdered. No kissing and making up for that. Period.
I'm not sure if Celene would give the elves more freedom. She needs her nobles to support her, and she might get too must resistance if she pushes elven rights. However, getting the elves on her side would be a huge advantage for her... so who knows?
 
On a side note, I wonder if we'll see Michel. I really liked him.

*sigh* They're not getting back together, are they? And even if they were, it's not going to be the unicorns and puppies that I imagine. I just really, really liked their chemistry, okay? xD

I hope Celene at least tries to give the elves justice. I don't want to see them fight.

Michel was pretty neat as well, yes. Wouldn't mind encountering him =) I can imagine if Imshael is in DAI, so is Michel.

[LobselVith8]

I'd say a lot more than some Dalish view themselves as the 'true elves' though. Their whole culture is reclaiming what the elves once were and becoming like their ancestors. And they have shown a common line of thinking that those elves not part of the Dalish need to be educated. We have yet to meet a single clan that contradicts that. 

 

You can say that, but there's no evidence to back it up. We can say that some Dalish look down on the city elves, just like some city elves look down on those elves who try to make a life outside the Alienage, but we can't properly quantify the amount for either group.

 

Getting back to the Dalish, their culture is about maintaining their religious freedom to worship the Creators and adhering to their cultural beliefs. They are the remnants of the Dales, not Arlathan, and they stay true to those ways. And while it's mentioned that they are interested in teaching the city elves what they've forgotten under human rule, but that's for those who want to be part of their community, similar to Velanna and Aneirin. Their way of life is even voluntary, as we've seen with the Dalish who willingly left their community to follow another path for themselves.

 

While I don't deny the City Elves will have radicals among them that will cause problems(one of them is the wielder of a superweapon right now in the form of the Eluvian Network), my concerns for who will push themselves on the others is more towards the Dalish since they've shown a mindset of it while no City Elves have shown themselves as wanting to un-Dalish the Dalish. 

 

The Dalish don't force others to convert to their culture or religion; it's entirely voluntary. You're welcome to join the clan of your own volition (as Aneirin, Lanaya, and Pol did), and you're even welcome to leave if you want to follow your own path (as Arianni, Velanna, and Merrill did). There's no precedent for the Dalish trying to impose their values upon the Andrastian elves. On the other hand, we know there is a mindset for pushing Andrastian values onto others since Kordillus Drakon I started to create the Orlesian Empire through a series of Exalted Marches against his neighbors. The modern Andrastian view of the followers of other faiths as "heathens" doesn't help, either.

[jlb524]

While I don't deny the City Elves will have radicals among them that will cause problems(one of them is the wielder of a superweapon right now in the form of the Eluvian Network), my concerns for who will push themselves on the others is more towards the Dalish since they've shown a mindset of it while no City Elves have shown themselves as wanting to un-Dalish the Dalish. 

 

City Elves outnumber Dalish by quite a bit.  I would be more worried about the Dalish losing their culture should elves all be mashed together in one nation.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

You can say that, but there's no evidence to back it up. We can say that some Dalish look down on the city elves, just like some city elves look down on those elves who try to make a life outside the Alienage, but we can't properly quantify the amount for either group.

 

Getting back to the Dalish, their culture is about maintaining their religious freedom to worship the Creators and adhering to their cultural beliefs. They are the remnants of the Dales, not Arlathan, and they stay true to those ways. And while it's mentioned that they are interested in teaching the city elves what they've forgotten under human rule, but that's for those who want to be part of their community, similar to Velanna and Aneirin. Their way of life is even voluntary, as we've seen with the Dalish who willingly left their community to follow another path for themselves.

 

 

The Dalish don't force others to convert to their culture or religion; it's entirely voluntary. You're welcome to join the clan of your own volition (as Aneirin, Lanaya, and Pol did), and you're even welcome to leave if you want to follow your own path (as Arianni, Velanna, and Merrill did). There's no precedent for the Dalish trying to impose their values upon the Andrastian elves. On the other hand, we know there is a mindset for pushing Andrastian values onto others since Kordillus Drakon I started to create the Orlesian Empire through a series of Exalted Marches against his neighbors. The modern Andrastian view of the followers of other faiths as "heathens" doesn't help, either.

Gathering their lost lore and reeducating all elves is pretty much a staple in the Dalish system. Whether they look down on them or are sincere and want to help, the Dalish will try this. They've said as much.

 

And until then, they only want to help those who want to join the Dalish. If there was a City Elf they run into who doesn't want to join, at best they leave them and at worst they kill them so their location is kept secret. You have to abandon your culture and adhere to theirs to live in their clan. If not, then best of luck trying to survive without a home. That sounds awfully close to what the humans said at the end of the Dales-Orlais War, huh?

[Hanako Ikezawa]

City Elves outnumber Dalish by quite a bit.  I would be more worried about the Dalish losing their culture should elves all be mashed together in one nation.

The Dalish are a lot better trained at fighting though and have powerful mages. 

[Heimdall]

@Lobselvit

I'd just like to say, 1. Don't confuse the desire to practice the "right" religion with a desire for religious freedom. 2. The Dalish scorn those who leave the clans, their hardly "welcome" to do so. Arianni was cast out for her infatuation with a human. Velanna was exiled. Merrill was distrusted by her entire clan.

[jlb524]

The Dalish are a lot better trained at fighting though and have powerful mages. 

 

I'm thinking more on the lines of cultural assimilation and not 'who would win in a fight...Dalish vs. City Elves'.

 

City Elves would win anyway.

[LobselVith8]

Gathering their lost lore and reeducating all elves is pretty much a staple in the Dalish system. Whether they look down on them or are sincere and want to help, the Dalish will try this. They've said as much.

 

The Dalish have taught elves about their culture and religion for centuries since the occupation of the Dales, but to the best of our knowledge, they have never tried to impose it onto anyone unwilling. The clans aren't even willing to prohibit anyone from leaving to live among the Andrastian elves, as Zevran's mother, Arianni, and Merrill did.

 

And until then, they only want to help those who want to join the Dalish.

 

The clan who rescued Aneirin (a young boy who was left for dead by the templars) who show that this isn't true. As would the willingness for a historical clan to raise a human child who was abandoned by her parents. Or the clans who signed a treaty with the Grey Wardens. And Lanaya (or even Zathrian) will honor the treaty, and call for aid from other clans in the area to contribute to help stop the Fifth Blight.

 

If there was a City Elf they run into who doesn't want to join, at best they leave them and at worst they kill them so their location is kept secret. You have to abandon your culture and adhere to theirs to live in their clan. If not, then best of luck trying to survive without a home. That sounds awfully close to what the humans said at the end of the Dales-Orlais War, huh?

 

If this was true, Zevran's mother, Arianni, and Merrill wouldn't have been allowed to leave their clan. Even Velanna and Merrill, who both held the position of First (and were privy to a plethora of secrets and knowledge) weren't prohibited from leaving their clans.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

The Dalish have taught elves about their culture and religion for centuries since the occupation of the Dales, but to the best of our knowledge, they have never tried to impose it onto anyone unwilling. The clans aren't even willing to prohibit anyone from leaving to live among the Andrastian elves, as Zevran's mother, Arianni, and Merrill did.

They impose it as a prerequisite for living in the clan. Why would they change when they get a nation?

 

The clan who rescued Aneirin (a young boy who was left for dead by the templars) who show that this isn't true. As would the willingness for a historical clan to raise a human child who was abandoned by her parents. Or the clans who signed a treaty with the Grey Wardens. And Lanaya (or even Zathrian) will honor the treaty, and call for aid from other clans in the area to contribute to help stop the Fifth Blight.

You mean "I'm running away from the Circle to join the Dalish" Aneirin? 

A human baby whom they raised as a follower of the Dalish religion. 

And they would be idiots if they didn't obligate the treaty to help against the Blight. The last time they sat one out resulted in the Dales-Orlais War and the loss of their homeland.

 

If this was true, Zevran's mother, Arianni, and Merrill wouldn't have been allowed to leave their clan. Even Velanna and Merrill, who both held the position of First (and were privy to a plethora of secrets and knowledge) weren't prohibited from leaving their clans.

Read what I posted again. 

If there was a City Elf they run into who doesn't want to join, at best they leave them and at worst they kill them so their location is kept secret. You have to abandon your culture and adhere to theirs to live in their clan. If not, then best of luck trying to survive without a home. That sounds awfully close to what the humans said at the end of the Dales-Orlais War, huh?

[Mistic]

Getting back to the Dalish, their culture is about maintaining their religious freedom to worship the Creators and adhering to their cultural beliefs. They are the remnants of the Dales, not Arlathan, and they stay true to those ways. And while it's mentioned that they are interested in teaching the city elves what they've forgotten under human rule, but that's for those who want to be part of their community, similar to Velanna and Aneirin. Their way of life is even voluntary, as we've seen with the Dalish who willingly left their community to follow another path for themselves.

 

I think the problem is that every bit of Dalish lore paints them as the ones who would achieve the dream of getting a free land for the elves. So far, I haven't seen any instance where they have entertained the idea of City Elves managing that dream and having to ask them for permission to be part of that new elven country. 

 

The clan who rescued Aneirin (a young boy who was left for dead by the templars) who show that this isn't true. As would the willingness for a historical clan to raise a human child who was abandoned by her parents. Or the clans who signed a treaty with the Grey Wardens. And Lanaya (or even Zathrian) will honor the treaty, and call for aid from other clans in the area to contribute to help stop the Fifth Blight.

 

Well, I wouldn't put much faith on Aveline's story. I think it's like Varric's tales: a grain of truth became a flowery story. It's telling that no Dalish we've met talks about this story. Every time we heard it, it has come from people with some Orlesian background. It's very likely that Aveline existed and took part in a tournament dressed as a boy. That she was brought up by Dalish seems incredibly suspicious.

[LobselVith8]

@Lobselvit

I'd just like to say, 1. Don't confuse the desire to practice the "right" religion with a desire for religious freedom.

 

When your religion is criminalized, it's a desire for religious freedom to practice your religion. The elven pantheon is outlawed by the Chantry, and the elves who submitted to human rule (the ancestors of the Andrastian elves) were forced to convert; the Dalish even claim it's the reason why the war started (that lead to the Orlesian occupation of the Dales). It's certainty a desire for religious freedom to practice their faith without being imprisoned or killed for it.

 

2. The Dalish scorn those who leave the clans, their hardly "welcome" to do so. Arianni was cast out for her infatuation with a human. Velanna was exiled. Merrill was distrusted by her entire clan.

 

Zevran's mother and Arianni willingly left the clan to be with someone who was outside the clan; Arianni is also welcomed into the Sabrae Clan in Act III, and she remarks how it's as though she never left. Velanna also admits she chose to leave the clan, and that her Keeper hoped she would back down when she advocated revenge against the humans. Merrill is also another example of someone who voluntarily left the clan. None of these examples disprove the point that you can willingly leave the Dalish if you so chose.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

I'm thinking more on the lines of cultural assimilation and not 'who would win in a fight...Dalish vs. City Elves'.

 

City Elves would win anyway.

I know what you meant. I'm saying if the city Elves tried, the Dalish would cut them down. History has proven many times that those without guns are powerless against those with guns no matter how outnumbered those with guns are. 

[Mistic]

When your religion is criminalized, it's a desire for religious freedom to practice your religion. The elven pantheon is outlawed by the Chantry, and the elves who submitted to human rule (the ancestors of the Andrastian elves) were forced to convert; the Dalish even claim it's the reason why the war started (that lead to the Orlesian occupation of the Dales). It's certainty a desire for religious freedom to practice their faith without being imprisoned or killed for it.

 

Sorry, but I can't agree with that. Wishing religious freedom for yourself but not for others is not wishing for religious freedom, just wishing for religious dominance. The question would be: in a hypothetical free elven nation, would the Dalish accept elves who wish to be Andrastian?

 

If the answer is 'no', then it's not religious freedom.
 

[LobselVith8]

They impose it as a prerequisite for living in the clan. Why would they change when they get a nation?

 

Why would you want to join the Dalish if you didn't want to be part of a culture who adhere to elven customs and follow the faith of the Creators? It'd an odd criticism to make. And I'd imagine things would be different if a pan-elven movement liberated the Dales, as we know Briala wants to have the Andrastian and Dalish elves as part of her network.

 

You mean "I'm running away from the Circle to join the Dalish" Aneirin?

 

I meant the young boy who was left for dead by the templars, and rescued by the Dalish. Or are you suggesting he used telepathy to let the Dalish know he wanted to join them?

 

A human baby whom they raised as a follower of the Dalish religion.

 

It's a religion the Dalish have followed since the Dales was an independent nation. You're basically criticizing parents for teaching their adoptive child their religion. That makes absolutely no sense to me.

 

And they would be idiots if they didn't obligate the treaty to help against the Blight. The last time they sat one out resulted in the Dales-Orlais War and the loss of their homeland.

 

Neither side makes that claim. According to the Chantry account, the war resulted from the attack on Red Crossing. According to the Dalish account, it was due to their refusal to convert that humans started violating the sovereignty of their kingdom.

 

Read what I posted again. 

If there was a City Elf they run into who doesn't want to join, at best they leave them and at worst they kill them so their location is kept secret. You have to abandon your culture and adhere to theirs to live in their clan. If not, then best of luck trying to survive without a home. That sounds awfully close to what the humans said at the end of the Dales-Orlais War, huh?

 

There's no precedent for the Dalish killing city elves who didn't want to join; they don't even kill their own people who don't want to be part of their community anymore. The clan allowed Zevran's mother, Arianni, and Merrill to leave, and live with the Andrastian elves. You seem to be confusing the Dalish for the Brotherhood of Steel.

[Heimdall]

When your religion is criminalized, it's a desire for religious freedom to practice your religion. The elven pantheon is outlawed by the Chantry, and the elves who submitted to human rule (the ancestors of the Andrastian elves) were forced to convert; the Dalish even claim it's the reason why the war started (that lead to the Orlesian occupation of the Dales). It's certainty a desire for religious freedom to practice their faith without being imprisoned or killed for it.

 

 

Zevran's mother and Arianni willingly left the clan to be with someone who was outside the clan; Arianni is also welcomed into the Sabrae Clan in Act III, and she remarks how it's as though she never left. Velanna also admits she chose to leave the clan, and that her Keeper hoped she would back down when she advocated revenge against the humans. Merrill is also another example of someone who voluntarily left the clan. None of these examples disprove the point that you can willingly leave the Dalish if you so chose.

No, it isn't.  People often make the same mistake about the puritan pilgrims that left England.  They were persecuted for their beliefs, that didn't stop them from vigorously persecuting anyone who deviated from those beliefs.  They wanted to practice the "correct" religion, not freedom to practice any religion.  I'll believe the Dalish practice religious freedom when I see one of them worship the Maker and Andraste.

 

I never said they couldn't leave, however I do recall Arianni saying that she was unable to return to her clan when Feynriel's father left her and Feynriel was born (Actually I think Marethari's willingness to accept Arianni might have been Marethari trying to send a message to Merrill anyway).  I'm sure Zevran's mother would have returned to her clan if she could of instead of becoming a prostitute.  Just because they left the clan voluntarily doesn't mean the clan approved of the decision or openly accepts such action.  Velanna and Merrill may very well be special cases because, as you mentioned, they are especially valuable to the clan because of their knowledge and closeness to the Keeper as Firsts.

[LobselVith8]

Well, I wouldn't put much faith on Aveline's story. I think it's like Varric's tales: a grain of truth became a flowery story. It's telling that no Dalish we've met talks about this story. Every time we heard it, it has come from people with some Orlesian background. It's very likely that Aveline existed and took part in a tournament dressed as a boy. That she was brought up by Dalish seems incredibly suspicious.

 

I don't see what's suspicious about it when Feynriel is allowed to live in the Sabrae Clan, and he's technically human. Or why an Orlesian historical account would claim she was raised Dalish when the two societies aren't on friendly terms (to say the least), and the Dalish are typically vilified in most human accounts we have read. It's hardly equivalent to Varric's gross exaggerations.

 

Sorry, but I can't agree with that. Wishing religious freedom for yourself but not for others is not wishing for religious freedom, just wishing for religious dominance. The question would be: in a hypothetical free elven nation, would the Dalish accept elves who wish to be Andrastian?

 

If the answer is 'no', then it's not religious freedom.

 

I don't recall any Dalish account that "wished freedom for [themselves] for not for others". I also recall hahren Paviel talking about how the Dalish and the Andrastian elves could learn from one another, as well as Merrill's treatment of the people of the Alienage as elves whose plight mattered, so I'm not quite as pessimistic about a pan-elven nation as some of you are, apparently.

[Heimdall]

I don't recall any Dalish account that "wished freedom for [themselves] for not for others". I also recall hahren Paviel talking about how the Dalish and the Andrastian elves could learn from one another, as well as Merrill's treatment of the people of the Alienage as elves whose plight mattered, so I'm not quite as pessimistic about a pan-elven nation as some of you are, apparently.

I certainly wouldn't leap to the idea that they'd feel Andrastrianism is something the City Elves could teach them.

[LobselVith8]

No, it isn't.  People often make the same mistake about the puritan pilgrims that left England.  They were persecuted for their beliefs, that didn't stop them from vigorously persecuting anyone who deviated from those beliefs.  They wanted to practice the "correct" religion, not freedom to practice any religion.  I'll believe the Dalish practice religious freedom when I see one of them worship the Maker and Andraste.

 

Their culture and religion are part of their society; it's what makes them Dalish. Their nomadic lifestyle is all about maintaining their cultural beliefs and their faith. If you're talking about a hypothetical elven nation, then I think the Dalish and Andrastian elves could make it work, although I don't deny there would be friction and some conflict between the two.

 

I never said they couldn't leave, however I do recall Arianni saying that she was unable to return to her clan when Feynriel's father left her and Feynriel was born (Actually I think Marethari's willingness to accept Arianni might have been Marethari trying to send a message to Merrill anyway).  I'm sure Zevran's mother would have returned to her clan if she could of instead of becoming a prostitute.  Just because they left the clan voluntarily doesn't mean the clan approved of the decision or openly accepts such action.  Velanna and Merrill may very well be special cases because, as you mentioned, they are especially valuable to the clan because of their knowledge and closeness to the Keeper as Firsts.

 

Marethari comments that that Arianni could have come back at any time. You're also making quite the assumption about Zevran's mother, as we have no information about whether or not finding the clan was even plausible, especially when she had a child to look after. And my point was simply that the clan doesn't prohibit one from leaving if someone wants to go their own way; the Dalish way of life is difficult, and they don't force anyone into it if the person wants to pursue their own path in life.

 

I certainly wouldn't leap to the idea that they'd feel Andrastrianism is something the City Elves could teach them.

 

I never make the claim it was, but there are many things they could learn from each other.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Why would you want to join the Dalish if you didn't want to be part of a culture who adhere to elven customs and follow the faith of the Creators? It'd an odd criticism to make. And I'd imagine things would be different if a pan-elven movement liberated the Dales, as we know Briala wants to have the Andrastian and Dalish elves as part of her network.

 

 

I meant the young boy who was left for dead by the templars, and rescued by the Dalish. Or are you suggesting he used telepathy to let the Dalish know he wanted to join them?

 

 

It's a religion the Dalish have followed since the Dales was an independent nation. You're basically criticizing parents for teaching their adoptive child their religion. That makes absolutely no sense to me.

 

 

Neither side makes that claim. According to the Chantry account, the war resulted from the attack on Red Crossing. According to the Dalish account, it was due to their refusal to convert that humans started violating the sovereignty of their kingdom.

 

 

There's no precedent for the Dalish killing city elves who didn't want to join; they don't even kill their own people who don't want to be part of their community anymore. The clan allowed Zevran's mother, Arianni, and Merrill to leave, and live with the Andrastian elves. You seem to be confusing the Dalish for the Brotherhood of Steel.

1)Oh, I don't know. Perhaps they want to live somewhere other than the slums of cities. And yeah, Briala the city elf is willing to have all elves join her cause regardless of belief. I can't say the same for the Dalish yet(protagonists don't count). 

 

2)So if they patched him up and then he said he didn't want to join, they'd still take him in? The answer is no, they would have separated ways there leaving Aneirin to fend for himself. 

 

3)See, that kind of mentality is part of the problem. The Dalish are not parents and the other elves children. They are on the same level. Unfortunately, most Dalish we've met who have expressed their opinion on the matter have not seen it that way. 

 

4)The Dales leaving Orlais at the mercy of the Blight for 90 years made the relationship much more strained between the two nations. It was definitely one of the causes for the war. 

 

5)Hence the "at worst" part.

[Mistic]

I don't see what's suspicious about it when Feynriel is allowed to live in the Sabrae Clan, and he's technically human. Or why an Orlesian historical account would claim she was raised Dalish when the two societies aren't on friendly terms (to say the least), and the Dalish are typically vilified in most human accounts we have read. It's hardly equivalent to Varric's gross exaggerations.

 

Wrong. In fact, romanticizing their former enemies is part of Orlesian culture, as explained by Leliana herself.

• Leliana: Do you think they do not admire Maric in Orlais? Because they do. There is nothing like a dashing rebel prince to capture the imagination, you know.
• Loghain: Even when he rebels against you?
• Leliana: Especially then. It makes him roguish. Much more romantic. And if he must face overwhelming numbers of Chevaliers with only a few untrained farmers? Then he's even more valiant.
• Loghain: Leliana, this runs counter to all sense and accountability.
• Leliana: People aren't sensible creatures all the time. And stories are accountable to no one. Have you never loved a tall tale, simply because it made your heart race?
• Loghain: Hmph.
• Leliana: You can "Hmph," all you like. You know I'm right.

It doesn't mean that the Fereldans aren't "dog-lords" or that the Dalish aren't "heathen savages". But a good tale is a good tale, and Orlais is the land of bards.

 

I don't recall any Dalish account that "wished freedom for [themselves] for not for others". I also recall hahren Paviel talking about how the Dalish and the Andrastian elves could learn from one another, as well as Merrill's treatment of the people of the Alienage as elves whose plight mattered, so I'm not quite as pessimistic about a pan-elven nation as some of you are, apparently.

 

The thing about the Dalish is that all their accounts talk about teaching their brehtren from the Cities the lost lore (fair enough) and "what it means to be elves". That last part is cultural imposition. And the only thing Paivel agrees on is that the City Elves could teach them how to understand the humans.

 

Yeah, my pessimism is obvious, isn't it? This is Thedas we're talking about, I prefer to expect the worst and then have a good surprise if I happen to be wrong.

[Heimdall]

Their culture and religion are part of their society; it's what makes them Dalish. Their nomadic lifestyle is all about maintaining their cultural beliefs and their faith. If you're talking about a hypothetical elven nation, then I think the Dalish and Andrastian elves could make it work, although I don't deny there would be friction and some conflict between the two.

My point is that you shouldn't assume that the Dalish elves accept the worship of the Maker and Andraste. They aren't out to create a nation free of intolerance, they want a nation for the elves and their particular idea of elven culture. Those are hardly the same thing.
 
 

Marethari comments that that Arianni could have come back at any time. You're also making quite the assumption about Zevran's mother, as we have no information about whether or not finding the clan was even plausible, especially when she had a child to look after. And my point was simply that the clan doesn't prohibit one from leaving if someone wants to go their own way; the Dalish way of life is difficult, and they don't force anyone into it if the person wants to pursue their own path in life.

Again, I suspect that comment was more for Merrill's benefit than Arianni's. Even if it wasn't, perhaps the Sabrae clan is unusually libertarian on that front. Actually Zevran wasn't born yet (He doesn't know if the woodcutter was his father or not, so it stands to reason he was born after his mother became a prostitute) I seem to recall it being mentioned that she couldn't go back to the clan. I've never said they Dalish didn't allow elves to leave. I've only said that just because they allow it doesn't mean they approve of it.

[LobselVith8]

1)Oh, I don't know. Perhaps they want to live somewhere other than the slums of cities. And yeah, Briala the city elf is willing to have all elves join her cause regardless of belief. I can't say the same for the Dalish yet(protagonists don't count). 

 

I'm not going to condemn the Dalish because life in the Alienage is awful. Their nomadic lifestyle is difficult, and a matter of survival when Andrastians persistently pose a threat to them. The clans are focused on staying following elven culture and the faith of the Creators. What Briala is doing is entirely different, by waging a conflict to emancipate all the elves; by the time the protagonist becomes the Inquisitor, Andrastian and Dalish elves could be part of her network.

 

2)So if they patched him up and then he said he didn't want to join, they'd still take him in? The answer is no, they would have separated ways there leaving Aneirin to fend for himself. 

 

The clan found an elven boy in need and saved his life. And when Aneirin wanted to live separate from the clan, they respected his wishes.

 

3)See, that kind of mentality is part of the problem. The Dalish are not parents and the other elves children. They are on the same level. Unfortunately, most Dalish we've met who have expressed their opinion on the matter have not seen it that way. 

 

The Dalish were Aveline's parents. Biology alone doesn't make you a parent. They raised her as one of their own.

 

4)The Dales leaving Orlais at the mercy of the Blight for 90 years made the relationship much more strained between the two nations. It was definitely one of the causes for the war. 

 

I'd say Orlais conquering the rest of their neighbors to establish an empire under the worship of the Maker strained relationships.

 

5)Hence the "at worst" part.

 

It's hard to claim it's "the worst" when there's no example that it's ever happened.

[LobselVith8]

My point is that you shouldn't assume that the Dalish elves accept the worship of the Maker and Andraste. They aren't out to create a nation free of intolerance, they want a nation for the elves and their particular idea of elven culture. Those are hardly the same thing.

 

I said the Dalish and the Andrastian elves could learn from one another; that has nothing to do with conversion of faith on either side. I'm sure an independent elven nation would face difficulties between the Dalish and Andrastian elves trying to live together, much less from Qunari elves, and the different subsets of Andrastian and Dalish elves who would encounter conflicts with one another.

 

Again, I suspect that comment was more for Merrill's benefit than Arianni's. Even if it wasn't, perhaps the Sabrae clan is unusually libertarian on that front. Actually Zevran wasn't born yet (He doesn't know if the woodcutter was his father or not, so it stands to reason he was born after his mother became a prostitute) I seem to recall it being mentioned that she couldn't go back to the clan. I've never said they Dalish didn't allow elves to leave. I've only said that just because they allow it doesn't mean they approve of it.

 

Marethari says it even when Merrill isn't present, so I have a difficult time buying into the idea it's for Merrill's benefit alone when Merrill isn't required to be present for the Keeper to say that; in fact, the Keeper tells Merrill directly that she can come back at any time in her own personal quest. You also seem to be criticizing the Dalish about Zevran's mother, despite the omission of quite a bit of information; she left the clan to be with someone she loved, but things went bad. Unfortunately.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

I'm not going to condemn the Dalish because life in the Alienage is awful. Their nomadic lifestyle is difficult, and a matter of survival when Andrastians persistently pose a threat to them. The clans are focused on staying following elven culture and the faith of the Creators. What Briala is doing is entirely different, by waging a conflict to emancipate all the elves; by the time the protagonist becomes the Inquisitor, Andrastian and Dalish elves could be part of her network.

 

 

The clan found an elven boy in need and saved his life. And when Aneirin wanted to live separate from the clan, they respected his wishes.

 

 

The Dalish were Aveline's parents. Biology alone doesn't make you a parent. They raised her as one of their own.

 

 

I'd say Orlais conquering the rest of their neighbors to establish an empire under the worship of the Maker strained relationships.

 

 

It's hard to claim it's "the worst" when there's no example that it's ever happened.

1) No, but I will condemn the Dalish for offering the exact same situation as the humans. Both humans and Dalish require elves to live either their way, as in assimilate to their culture regardless of personal feelings on it, or the highway, as in leave and good luck being a solitary elf in Thedas.

 

2) You keep avoiding my point. If Aneirin didn't want to convert, would the Dalish have still let him live with them for as long as he did? The answer is no. 

 

3) Again, you avoid my point. The Dalish see themselves as the 'true elves' and the City Elves as akin to lost children when this is not the case. 

 

4) I'm not saying it didn't. But the Dalish were far from blameless in the rising tension by doing things like watching a country suffer the Blight for almost a century and religious censorship.

 

5) Some Dalish view the City Elves as traitors to their race. Treason is punishable by death.