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[LobselVith8]

I'd still rather be a City Elf than a Dalish. They'd be more in touch with the plight of their kind.

Both can care about the plight of the elves, as Merrill proved. It might be an option in the future. I suspect Briala and her network may explain why the elven option is exclusively Dalish.

A city elf can prove interesting, regardless of their background. I rather liked my Surana Warden, and he originally grew up in the Denerim Alienage, before the templars stole him away from his family and brought him to the Circle. He's technically a city elf; culturally Andrastian, although an atheist in his beliefs. His world is my canon import for my Dalish Inquisitor.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Both can care about the plight of the elves, as Merrill proved. It might be an option in the future. I suspect Briala and her network may explain why the elven option is exclusively Dalish.

A city elf can prove interesting, regardless of their background. I rather liked my Surana Warden, and he originally grew up in the Denerim Alienage, before the templars stole him away from his family and brought him to the Circle. He's technically a city elf; culturally Andrastian, although an atheist in his beliefs. His world is my canon import for my Dalish Inquisitor.

Oh, I'm not saying they can't. I was just saying a City Elf would be more in touch about it because while a Dalish hears stories about the alienages, a city elf would have lived it. I'm just sad that we have to be Dalish. Still worst news of Inquisition. 

[Heimdall]

Both can care about the plight of the elves, as Merrill proved. It might be an option in the future. I suspect Briala and her network may explain why the elven option is exclusively Dalish.

I suspect that's true. They probably need her suspicious of the Inquisitor regardless of origin, and Briala isn't a fan of the Dalish as of TME's ending.

[LobselVith8]

Oh, I'm not saying they can't. I was just saying a City Elf would be more in touch about it because while a Dalish hears stories about the alienages, a city elf would have lived it. I'm just sad that we have to be Dalish. Still worst news of Inquisition.

I'm sorry you won't get to play as a city elf. Optimally, there will be an option to choose either one in the future, like players could in Origins. I'm also sad there's no elven love interest for a male Inquisitor, so you're not alone in being disappointed.

Given Briala (and possibly Fiona), the city elves will hopefully get some good points of view in the upcoming storyline.

At the very least, there should be an elven storyline in the Dales that will provide a multitude of elven perspectives, and I hope the region is populated by some interesting elven characters.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

I'm sorry you won't get to play as a city elf. Optimally, there will be an option to choose either one in the future, like players could in Origins. I'm also sad there's no elven love interest for a male Inquisitor, so you're not alone in being disappointed.

Given Briala (and possibly Fiona), the city elves will hopefully get some good points of view in the upcoming storyline.

At the very least, there should be an elven storyline in the Dales that will provide a multitude of elven perspectives, and I hope the region is populated by some interesting elven characters.

Thanks, and hopefully there will be more than one background next game. 

 

I definitely hope Fiona is in the game more than just as someone who died in the blast.

[bairdduvessa]

this thread wasn't this alive when the book came out!

[Mistic]

And we don't know how many elves did or didn't believe in some form of Andrastrian faith from the start. It's not like all elves are descended from those that settled in the Dales.

 

Well, it's true, but those who didn't take part in the exodus are still in Tevinter, so they are like your usual City Elves.

 

Given Briala (and possibly Fiona), the city elves will hopefully get some good points of view in the upcoming storyline.

 

And Sera, let's not forget Sera. In fact, why hasn't anyone mentioned her before? An elf in the Friends of Red Jenny and she brings "the perspective of the little people caught between powerful factions". That sounds promising. At least more like someone like Fiona. I get the feeling that, if she appears in the game, she's going to be more like Orsino: a good example of Mage viewpoint, but not of a City Elf's point of view.

[teenparty]

I too found this a little unconvincing. After all they'd been through, I don't think Celene would've actually cared at all that he wasn't really a nobleman. I mean, she sacrificed herself for him in battle... You're beyond caring about someone's origin at that point, you value the person.

So, yes, Michel was at a crossroad, but choosing to honor Briala's promise instead of his oath to Celene seemed a little out of place - or  forced, even. Or maybe it's not; he chose, and he can be mistaken in his decision. Could go either way: as a flaw in character development or as a flawed character.

Michel was becoming disenchanted with his queen and learned to respect Briala and Gaspard.

[teenparty]

Just got done reading:

 

Spoiler

Darn it, I was so sure Felassan was Flemeth too.  

Me too.

[Wissenschaft]

I've reread this again and I take back by initial reaction. I have to say, I'm quite conflicted on how things ended between Briala and Celene. On the one hand, Celene had no choice in ordering her servants killed since in fact she wasn't the one giving the order. Lady Mantillon was calling the shots and Celene was either clever enough to suggest the murders herself or she'd be replaced by plan B, Gaspard. And then its likely Celene and her servants would be killed to cover up the conspiracy to kill and replace the emperor.

 

On the other hand, I can't blame Briala for not thinking rationally about her parents murder. Who would? Though, I don't believe Briala really fully blames Celene for her parents death, if she did she'd have killed Celene just as she had Lady Mantillon. What really broke them up is that Briala lost faith in Celene helping her city elves. She saw how Celene crushed the elven rebellion and released that Celene would choose the stability of her empire, and her own rule, over rebelling elves.

 

I feel so conflicted over the ending, I suppose thats a sigh of how well its written. The romantic in me wants Celene and Briala to get back together but I'm not sure thats possible. I sure hope to see so resolution to this matter in DA:I. If we get to meet Celene, Gaspard, and Briala in the game then I'm going to be ecstatic.

[Mistic]

I've reread this again and I take back by initial reaction. I have to say, I'm quite conflicted on how things ended between Briala and Celene. On the one hand, Celene had no choice in ordering her servant killed since in fact she wasn't the one giving the order. Lady Mantillon was calling the shots and Celene was either clever enough to suggest the murders herself or she'd be replaced by plan B, Gaspard. And then its likely Celene and her servants would be killed to cover up the conspiracy to kill and replace the emperor.

 

I think what one of the morals in the story is that everytime Celene tries to play the Grand Game by herself, without asking for other people's opinions or advice, it comes back to haunt her even if it takes years. Even if at first they look like logical, sensible choices, it ends badly for her sooner or later. Briala is much better than her at the Game.

[Jester]

Briala is much better than her at the Game.

Briala was hardly a player. More like Celene's piece. Her goal was to improve lifes of city elves, and she helped Celene having that in mind.

But it was Celene who was able to see past her affection, burning the Alienage to the ground - sure, it was Gaspard's trap, but avoiding that would end in losing the support of important nobles - much worse in long-term strategy than possible assassination. That was a good decision from the perspective of the Grand Game. Sacrificing her servants, yet saving Briala's loyalty was a genious move that secured the throne for her AND gained her a loyal spy and assassin.

Briala was nothing but a piece in Celene's machinations, which she realized at the end. After returning to Val Royeaux, elven situation would not change. Celene would not free them from alienage, cause that would be more trouble (nobles) than actual profit (elven army). Most likely some elves would be elevated to level of assassins or spies using Eluvians, but that would be it. Unfortunately for Celene, Briala realized that. It was hardly Celene's mistake however, she did what she could.

 

There may have been real affection on Celene part, but she was Empress. The Grand Game, the throne and the country must always come first for someone of her position. 

I think that this is what causes Orlesian Empire to be the most powerful nation, and what causes Farelden to be a much weaker state. The quality of the ruling class. 

Nobles in Orlais must learn to play the Game, where personal affections, feelings and commitments must often be sacrificed for power, political alliances and influence. Both Gaspard and Celene are capable rulers, who know a lot about ruling country and swaying nobility. On Farelden side, we had:

Maric - did not even want to rule, was ready to sacrifice himself, while his only son was just a child, leaving freshly reclaimed country without leadership.

Cailan - a big child with dreams of honor and glory, with his wife ruling the country behind his back.

Loghain - would be quite good if not for his paranoia about Orlais, which unfortunately overshadowed real goals and threats.

Anora - probably the only capable one.

Alistair - hardened is not that bad, and may prove to be a capable ruler in time, unhardened is just a whiny brat who doesn't want a throne.

 

None of those rulers actually have any experience in politics, apart from Anora and to some degree Loghain. Hell, Alistair even admits that he prefers to follow than to lead! I'm sensing another occupation of Farelden quite soon. Political class of Orlais is leagues above that of Farelden. 

[Mistic]

Briala was hardly a player. More like Celene's piece. Her goal was to improve lifes of city elves, and she helped Celene having that in mind.

But it was Celene who was able to see past her affection, burning the Alienage to the ground - sure, it was Gaspard's trap, but avoiding that would end in losing the support of important nobles - much worse in long-term strategy than possible assassination. That was a good decision from the perspective of the Grand Game. Sacrificing her servants, yet saving Briala's loyalty was a genious move that secured the throne for her AND gained her a loyal spy and assassin.

Briala was nothing but a piece in Celene's machinations, which she realized at the end. After returning to Val Royeaux, elven situation would not change. Celene would not free them from alienage, cause that would be more trouble (nobles) than actual profit (elven army). Most likely some elves would be elevated to level of assassins or spies using Eluvians, but that would be it. Unfortunately for Celene, Briala realized that. It was hardly Celene's mistake however, she did what she could.

 

I'm not saying Briala was a player. She couldn't, she was just an elf in Orlais. But she was Celene's best assistant, her left hand, the one who ensured she didn't fail at every tiny mistake. Briala was her piece, sure, but Celene wasn't really conscious of how dependant she was on her lover. Until the end.

 

The moves you praise? Catastrophic. Marching against the elves? Even an arrested Briala could see that it was all part of Gaspard's trap. When your elven servant can see it and you can't, it's telling. Losing support is serious news, I agree, but let's review it here: had an archer had better aim, Celene wouldn't have lost support, she would have lost her life! And there was no possibility to gain anything from risking that, since Celene didn't consider the possibility of an ambush to begin with. She only saw the rebel elves and the nobles conspiring; she didn't consider a good-old coup d'etat.

 

Murdering Briala's parents? It paid handsomely for years... until now. So it failed in the end too. Because thanks to that she's risking to lose exactly what she gained by assassinating those two poor elven servants.

[Feybrad]

You know, reading the masked Empire right know I have the burning Desire to pull an Arishok on the complete orlesian Nobility. Note the ridiculously accurate Speech in the Beginning:

 

[Feybrad]

That just gets the Arishok killed though.

 

Neither in the Video nor my Playtrough

[Mistic]

You know, reading the masked Empire right know I have the burning Desire to pull an Arishok on the complete orlesian Nobility. Note the ridiculously accurate Speech in the Beginning:

 

Remember that the chevaliers are Orlesian nobility and some high nobles, like Gaspard, have gone through the Academy's harsh training. What the Arishok did in Kirkwall would have been much more difficult in Val Royeaux. Flamboyant attitude, stupid fashion and racist slurls don't stop Orlais from being the most powerful empire in Thedas.

[Jester]

Remember that the chevaliers are Orlesian nobility and some high nobles, like Gaspard, have gone through the Academy's harsh training. What the Arishok did in Kirkwall would have been much more difficult in Val Royeaux. Flamboyant attitude, stupid fashion and racist slurls don't stop Orlais from being the most powerful empire in Thedas.

Gaspard is probably competent enough to duel Arishok himself. 

Besides, remember that Orlesian Duke from Mark of the Assassin? True, he had a giant wyvern, but even on foot he was a formidable opponent. As I said, Orlesian political class is a different league entirely . And I doubt that Arishok would have the same attitude towards orlesian nobility as he had towards kirwallian (is that even a word?). Arishok had respect for skill.

 

The moves you praise? Catastrophic. Marching against the elves? Even an arrested Briala could see that it was all part of Gaspard's trap. When your elven servant can see it and you can't, it's telling. Losing support is serious news, I agree, but let's review it here: had an archer had better aim, Celene wouldn't have lost support, she would have lost her life! And there was no possibility to gain anything from risking that, since Celene didn't consider the possibility of an ambush to begin with. 

 

True, but she still had to do it. If she had sensed a trap, she would certainly have been more cautious, but elven uprising had to be put down, one way or another. Rumors that Gaspard spread (which turned out to be more than that) combined with her leniency towards elves would rally the nobles to Gaspard's cause. Of course, she miscalculated - she realized that the effect would be stronger if she herself lead the attack, but she underestimated Gaspard. An error, but if she did as Briala wanted (meaning no attack at all), she would have lost her throne for sure. 

[Mistic]

Gaspard is probably competent enough to duel Arishok himself. 

Besides, remember that Orlesian Duke from Mark of the Assassin? True, he had a giant wyvern, but even on foot he was a formidable opponent. As I said, Orlesian political class is a different league entirely . And I doubt that Arishok would have the same attitude towards orlesian nobility as he had towards kirwallian (is that even a word?). Arishok had respect for skill.

 

Now I'm imagining Gaspard fighting the Arishok on a wyvern. That would be awesome. More epic than Hawke's fight, at least

 

True, but she still had to do it. If she had sensed a trap, she would certainly have been more cautious, but elven uprising had to be put down, one way or another. Rumors that Gaspard spread (which turned out to be more than that) combined with her leniency towards elves would rally the nobles to Gaspard's cause. Of course, she miscalculated - she realized that the effect would be stronger if she herself lead the attack, but she underestimated Gaspard. An error, but if she did as Briala wanted (meaning no attack at all), she would have lost her throne for sure.

 

Yes, she should have sent one of her generals, but since it was a big PR event, she chose the wrong option.

 

Also, we must remember that the elven uprising wasn't happening in a void. The criticism against Celene isn't just "she helps elves! Booo!"; there was a lot of food on her plate. She was being criticized because she was soft with the Chantry and wanted to give the Divine a chance to mend things between Mages and Templars. Also, because she was being nice to Ferelden instead of, you know, playing the haughty Orlesian imperialist. The elves were just the last straw.

 

In fact, Celene wanted a PR victory by having the Divine speak in the party (the same party we see in Asunder). She was making her time for that event to silence part of the criticism. And then Gaspard pushed from the other side. Let's remember that; until the infamous play, the Mage-Templar problem was the main issue, not the elves. When Gaspard faces Celene during the hunt, he never mentions the elves. Even when he mentions Ferelden, it's about using it as a steam valve to solve the Mage-Templar tensions ("Maybe we can let those idiots in the Chantry and the Circle kill people outside our borders instead of inside them").

 

An error, but if she did as Briala wanted (meaning no attack at all), she would have lost her throne for sure.

 

And now it's very likely that the fate of the Orlesian throne depends on a Marcher noble, a Qunari mercenary, a Dwarven gangster or a Dalish Elf. When you look at it that way it looks ridiculous

[Heimdall]

After returning to Val Royeaux, elven situation would not change. Celene would not free them from alienage, cause that would be more trouble (nobles) than actual profit (elven army). Most likely some elves would be elevated to level of assassins or spies using Eluvians, but that would be it.

Its questionable how much of an army she would actually get. We're talking about gaining an army of largely untrained and unepuipped elves and losing legions of Chevalier. There really isn't any "profit" in that trade.

[LobselVith8]

Its questionable how much of an army she would actually get. We're talking about gaining an army of largely untrained and unepuipped elves and losing legions of Chevalier. There really isn't any "profit" in that trade.

 

Briala is a bard; it's quite possible her network would involve elves who have been trained to handle dangerous situations, perhaps in a manner similar to the Night Elves who were trained to help during the Orlesian occupation.

[Hellion Rex]

Briala is a bard; it's quite possible her network would involve elves who have been trained to handle dangerous situations, perhaps in a manner similar to the Night Elves who were trained to help during the Orlesian occupation.

You mean the "Knight" elves, right? As in the Emerald Knights?

[Aimi]

Briala is a bard; it's quite possible her network would involve elves who have been trained to handle dangerous situations, perhaps in a manner similar to the Night Elves who were trained to help during the Orlesian occupation.

That's not an army. It's probably not even a company-sized formation. And it's full of people that are not trained to fight as soldiers - much less trained to fight as chevaliers.

You mean the "Knight" elves, right? As in the Emerald Knights?

No. He's referring to Loghain's unit of city-recruited elves from The Stolen Throne.