1058 réponses à ce sujet

[leaguer of one]

One occasion towards the begining of the book was fade to black.  I didn't read more than a couple of pages past the first chapter, so I can't speak as to the rest of the book.

On point, Celene really like her Handmaiden.

[ames4u]

So, is anyone else planning to cause as much destruction to Orlais as possible? I know I will.

I am curious as to which character the book will be following the closest. Seems to me like it'll

be Celene's Elvin spy tottie with occasional forays into Celene's pov.

[ames4u]

I would have hoped for a little bit more of a nuance or depth. The scene itself is not badly written; I very much enjoyed feather jousting; but the scenario is as generic as can be.

And, quite frankly, I can't see this translating well into the game. On one side you have Celene who goes to great pains to prevent a war between Orlais and Ferelden and in the other you have Gaspard who is itching for a war and just gave Teagan his murdered aunt's sword in front of nobles from all over the continent.

Who will you choose, Inquisitor?

 

Hopefully, it gets better. Celene getting her hands dirty would be a start.

 

Wait, what? When did that happen?

 

Although you make a damn good point. Why the hell would anyone side with Gaspard other than to be a pr*ck for the sake of being a pr*ck? Hopefully Celene is not as boring as she has been described.

[ames4u]

Anyone else get the feeling from the preview that this book is just setting up the Celene is the progressive "good" ruler, and Gaspard is the imperialist "evil" ruler. Then in Inquisition we'll have to choose who to support, Gaspard will have the armies that he will of course use to support our cause and Celene will have significantly less? I'm calling it.   

 

 

I'll be telling them both to take a hike and crush them underfoot if it's an option.

But knowing Bioware it probably wont be. To be honest, I don't think it should be

a forced option. The player should be able to opt out of supporting either one or

obliterating them entirely, because the Inquisitor has bigger fish to fry than those two.

 

I mean, if you had to choose, the tear raining down demons would automatically win out over

a pair of squabbling sods. Being forced to waste my men, money, time and energy on a pair of

preening parrots strikes me as counterproductive and vastly irritating.

[Das Tentakel]

Okay, the large excerpt that disappeared off Amazon can be found here as well: The Masked Empire excerpt
 
Based on the excerpt it looks decent enough as a franchise novel to me, meaning: don't expect anything comparable to Martin, Rothfuss, the older fantasy classics or a good intrigue-heavy historical novel. This is for those who want more Dragon Age stuff, and if the rest of the book is like the excerpt I think Patrick Weekes has done a good job. 

 

The Elizabeth I lite / enlightened monarch vibe is indeed pretty strong, and Grand Duke Gaspard also gives off a bit of a Duke Thomas of Norfolk (Elizabeth's cousin, executed for treason in 1572)  vibe. By that I mean the 1998 movie, not the actual historical Duke (who seems to have been blessed with a surplus of wealth and likeability, as well as a sincere lack of brains and sense of self-preservation). A bit simplified and mixed up, but I think still fairly recognisable. Norfolk (Christopher Eccleston) in the movie is a handsome, swaggering, bellicose bag of arrogance waiting to get his comeuppance, and Gaspard seems to be more of the same. Hopefully without an atrocious accent in DA:I 

 

 

Clicky link: Chris Eccleston as Duke of Norfolk in Elizabeth

 

Oh yeah, and fade in black indeed. So, probably no fantasy pseudo-Gallic hanky-panky. For those in dire need of it, I suggest Jacqueline Carey's Kushiel novels. 

[Gwydden]

 

I'll be telling them both to take a hike and crush them underfoot if it's an option.

But knowing Bioware it probably wont be. To be honest, I don't think it should be

a forced option. The player should be able to opt out of supporting either one or

obliterating them entirely, because the Inquisitor has bigger fish to fry than those two.

 

I mean, if you had to choose, the tear raining down demons would automatically win out over

a pair of squabbling sods. Being forced to waste my men, money, time and energy on a pair of

preening parrots strikes me as counterproductive and vastly irritating.

 

But we won't have unlimited resources. We will need allies, and two powerful sparring idiots are as good as any, if not better than most. In times of warfare any hole can be made into a trench.

[Heimdall]

Wait, what? When did that happen?

Although you make a damn good point. Why the hell would anyone side with Gaspard other than to be a pr*ck for the sake of being a pr*ck? Hopefully Celene is not as boring as she has been described.

Apparently Gaspard thought it would be amusing to give Teagan the Rebel Queen's sword as a present (Maric's mother, so mother in law to Teagan's sister. I don't know what that makes her to him) in the middle of a banquet. Gaspard disdains Ferelden and believes conquest would instill the Empire with new vigor. Many militarily inclined lords evidently share the sentiment.

[efd731]

I really hope there is more depth to this than "nice ruler is nice and has a small army" and "mean ruler is mean and has a big army". The elves have to play into this somehow, but I don't know if that'll be enough to save the scenario from Trope-ism. Knowing bioware though, there should be more to it then that.

[LobselVith8]

 

So, is anyone else planning to cause as much destruction to Orlais as possible? I know I will.

I am curious as to which character the book will be following the closest. Seems to me like it'll

be Celene's Elvin spy tottie with occasional forays into Celene's pov.

 

 

From what the extended preview showed, it does provide some insight into Briala's viewpoint.

 

In a choice between Celene, Gaspard, and Briala, I'll be interested in siding with Briala (in my first run as a Dalish Inquisitor).

[ladyofpayne]

I hope they will show us Gassy's art. I wonder how he looks. Pleale supposes it is him.

[ladyofpayne]

Oh really! Elizabeth I and Duke Norfolk is very similar to Masked Empire. Even actor has similarity at Gaspard.

[Stella-Arc]

I don't know if it's just me but if Celene doesn't get an heir then everything she fought for (or scheme) will die with her.

 

It would be ironic if she wins the Civil War only for it to be in vain. I'm sure she would marry someone for political gain (like the proposed agreement between Ferelden and Orlais) but will she? I have no idea if she's with Briala because they're friends-with-benefits or if she truly cares for her. I also wonder why Bioware decided for Celene to have an elven lover. It does give an interesting point of view but I can't help think something else could have worked (not that I'm complaining). 

 

Celene is more tolerant and progressive than the average Orleasian but I doubt she's a saint. She still wanted Ferelden (but was willing to marry Cailan as a way to prevent bloodshed). Plus, Orlais is having a small little "war" over a strip of land with Nevarra and, if the summary for the Masked Empire is of any indication, she seems willing to betray Briala to keep a hold of her throne. Let's not forget how she came to the throne. Does she have legitimate claim to it? Did she have her uncle assassinated? How did she keep her older cousins from claiming the throne? So many questions.

 

The real question is, what role will the elves play in the book? How are they related to the Orleasian Civil War? What caused them to rise? What does Briala have to do with it? 

 

Quite honestly, I find The Masked Empire much more intriguing than The Last Flight (even if the protagonist is an elven mage). 

[Aimi]

Let's not forget how she came to the throne. Does she have legitimate claim to it?

 

Her claim is as legitimate as any other monarch's - that is to say, completely illegitimate.

[ames4u]

But we won't have unlimited resources. We will need allies, and two powerful sparring idiots are as good as any, if not better than most. In times of warfare any hole can be made into a trench.

 

True, but there are other allies upon which the Inquisition can rely on no?

 

I'd be considerably concerned about being stabbed in the back or placed on a very short leash depending on who the Inquisitor bows down to in order to gain those resources. With Gaspard, you know he'd want total obedience and control. Celene I am somewhat uncertain about, but I daresay she'd expect some privileges and favors if not a new militaristic arm to add to her repertoire. Then comes the question of whether or not she'd send a bard to deal with me if I refuse to help her with something I don't feel the Inquisition should be meddling in.

 

For me it'd be a question of, how much am I willing to give up in order to secure the support of either a megalomaniac hellbent on dominating the surrounding territories or an egomaniac hellbent on keeping her pert bottom seated firmly on the throne by any means possible. How badly will this effect other countries/territories if I strengthen their hold on Orlais? Will I be stabbed in the back or kept like an obedient puppy? In all likelihood I'd probably cede to the elves. I'll have to play it by ear, I don't trust Celene but I will see how she behaves in game and in the new book when it is released.

[Das Tentakel]

Her claim is as legitimate as any other monarch's - that is to say, completely illegitimate.

 
Oh, come on. Legitimacy is in the eyes of peers and subjects and regulated by society's laws and customs. I am pretty sure that 'Denis le paysan constitutionnaliste' does not exist in Orlais, and should he suddenly appear, he would soon dance the Tyburn jig hanging from a tree.

 

Maybe WoT has some info on Orlesian succession rules? For maximum intrigue and bloodshed, it might be so simple as the ruling Emperor or Empress appointing a favoured relative as successor, rather than something old-fashioned and boring like male primogeniture.

[Stella-Arc]

 

True, but there are other allies upon which the Inquisition can rely on no?

 

I'd be considerably concerned about being stabbed in the back or placed on a very short leash depending on who the Inquisitor bows down to in order to gain those resources. With Gaspard, you know he'd want total obedience and control. Celene I am somewhat uncertain about, but I daresay she'd expect some privileges and favors if not a new militaristic arm to add to her repertoire. Then comes the question of whether or not she'd send a bard to deal with me if I refuse to help her with something I don't feel the Inquisition should be meddling in.

 

For me it'd be a question of, how much am I willing to give up in order to secure the support of either a megalomaniac hellbent on dominating the surrounding territories or an egomaniac hellbent on keeping her pert bottom seated firmly on the throne by any means possible. How badly will this effect other countries/territories if I strengthen their hold on Orlais? Will I be stabbed in the back or kept like an obedient puppy? In all likelihood I'd probably cede to the elves. I'll have to play it by ear, I don't trust Celene but I will see how she behaves in game and in the new book when it is released.

 

 

The books (Asunder and The Masked Empire) aren't required to understand the predicament our Inquisitors will be in DAI but that doesn't stop me from wondering how the Civil War and the Rebellion will affect the overall game continuity. I highly doubt Celene will be some savior while Gaspard a mustache-twirling guy. They are the same in how they wish to expand Orlais. Their overall difference however is how they tend to achieve the same desired goal. An example would be the Ferelden Situation. Gaspard and some of the nobility wish to annex the former province through conquest while Celene prefers diplomacy (such as marriage). Gaspard believes that Orlais should return to its imperialistic glory while Celene wants a Renaissance. There are other ways to "conquer" lands instead of violence. 

 

I agree that choosing either Celene and Gaspard would require some sacrifice on our part. Only time will tell. 

 

 
Oh, come on. Legitimacy is in the eyes of peers and subjects and regulated by society's laws and customs. I am pretty sure that 'Denis le paysan constitutionnaliste' does not exist in Orlais, and should he suddenly appear, he would soon dance the Tyburn jig hanging from a tree.

 

Maybe WoT has some info on Orlesian succession rules? For maximum intrigue and bloodshed, it might be so simple as the ruling Emperor or Empress appointing a favoured relative as successor, rather than something old-fashioned and boring like male primogeniture.

 

I don't think WoT explains how Orlesian succession works. What we do know is that Celene is the only child of the former Emperor's younger sister. Thus, she was the least likeliest to inherit the throne. Her uncle was assassinated and a year later, Celene was crowned Empress at the tender age of sixteen. The question we must ask ourselves is whether Florian desired Celene to take up the mantle of Empress in the first place. Why would he choose her? 

 

Quite honestly, I don't think Celene is the type to murder someone unless provoked. I think she prefers the use of her tongue instead of a sword. Was she forced to have her uncle assassinated? If so, why? Or maybe she didn't. There is a lot we don't know about her. Same as Briala. It's strange that Celene trust Briala enough to allow her to have much power.

 

It's obvious that the elves will, at least hopefully, play a large role in The Masked Empire and Celene, along with her dear cousin, will have a part in DAI.

[Aimi]

 Oh, come on. Legitimacy is in the eyes of peers and subjects and regulated by society's laws and customs. I am pretty sure that 'Denis le paysan constitutionnaliste' does not exist in Orlais, and should he suddenly appear, he would soon dance the Tyburn jig hanging from a tree.

 

Maybe WoT has some info on Orlesian succession rules? For maximum intrigue and bloodshed, it might be so simple as the ruling Emperor or Empress appointing a favoured relative as successor, rather than something old-fashioned and boring like male primogeniture.

 

I deliberately chose to make a joke about moral legitimacy, not about the more nebulous concept of passive monarchical political buy-in that you seem to be dealing with. It was not a statement calling for prescriptive action in the Dragon Age setting, but rather a heavy-handed reminder that Thedosian political structures suck.

[Stella-Arc]

I deliberately chose to make a joke about moral legitimacy, not about the more nebulous concept of passive monarchical political buy-in that you seem to be dealing with. It was not a statement calling for prescriptive action in the Dragon Age setting, but rather a heavy-handed reminder that Thedosian political structures suck.

 

I was aware of your joke. I just wished to continue the conversation on to a more serious manner. And I agree that yes, Theodosian political structures do suck. 

[Das Tentakel]

I was aware of your joke. I just wished to continue the conversation on to a more serious manner. And I agree that yes, Theodosian political structures do suck. 

 

Same here. ' Moral legitimacy'? Sucky political structures? Irrelevant I think in regard to Stella-Arc's question, which is whether Celine succeeded in accordance to Orlesian laws / customs, and whether she actually undertook ' active' measures to get on the throne. 

That kind of stuff would tell us something about the structure and nature of Orlesian society and politics, or to be more precise, what BioWare made of their pseudo-France. It sounds like a rather unpleasant caricature so far - apart from some vaguely pseudo-French fripperies it's almost as if I'm looking at a rabid Scottish nationalist's version of the English Tudor court. I don't mean it's intended like that, but there's a lot of caricature-like exaggeration going on here, presumably for ' dramatic effect'...

[Gwydden]

Same here. ' Moral legitimacy'? Sucky political structures? Irrelevant I think in regard to Stella-Arc's question, which is whether Celine succeeded in accordance to Orlesian laws / customs, and whether she actually undertook ' active' measures to get on the throne. 

That kind of stuff would tell us something about the structure and nature of Orlesian society and politics, or to be more precise, what BioWare made of their pseudo-France. It sounds like a rather unpleasant caricature so far - apart from some vaguely pseudo-French fripperies it's almost as if I'm looking at a rabid Scottish nationalist's version of the English Tudor court. I don't mean it's intended like that, but there's a lot of caricature-like exaggeration going on here, presumably for ' dramatic effect'...

You could also consider Orlais to represent Norman England. Therefore the Tudor association.

[Das Tentakel]

You could also consider Orlais to represent Norman England. Therefore the Tudor association.

 

Not really seeing that, to be honest. Norman England (England from the Conquest in 1066 to the loss of Normandy in 1204) was a pretty rough place and there's not much similarity at all between it and Orlais.

The Norman conquest itself *may* have been the ' source idea' for the Orlesian conquest of Ferelden, though to be honest my own feeling is that *if* that was based on a historical event, it was the attempted English conquest of Scotland under Edward I & II (1296-1328).

My own suspicion is that a lot of the influences in DA stem from movies anyway (rather than actual history) - I am thinking of Braveheart here. 

Not that I mean that Maric is Robert I the Bruce and Loghain William Wallace - I am more thinking of various plot elements and characters floating around, combining with other influences and gestating into something else.

[Gwydden]

Not really seeing that, to be honest. Norman England (England from the Conquest in 1066 to the loss of Normandy in 1204) was a pretty rough place and there's not much similarity at all between it and Orlais.

The Norman conquest itself *may* have been the ' source idea' for the Orlesian conquest of Ferelden, though to be honest my own feeling is that *if* that was based on a historical event, it was the attempted English conquest of Scotland under Edward I & II (1296-1328).

My own suspicion is that a lot of the influences in DA stem from movies anyway (rather than actual history) - I am thinking of Braveheart here. 

Not that I mean that Maric is Robert I the Bruce and Loghain William Wallace - I am more thinking of various plot elements and characters floating around, combining with other influences and gestating into something else.

I was using the term "Norman England" loosely here, as in England after 1066, as opposed to Ferelden being more like Saxon England.

[Das Tentakel]

I was using the term "Norman England" loosely here, as in England after 1066, as opposed to Ferelden being more like Saxon England.

 

I get it, I'm using a narrower definition. Regardless of definition, I think any influences are very selective (by way of popular culture, mainly movies and TV series) and pretty much mixed-up beyond certain recognition. For instance, in Orlais (including its relationship with Ferelden) I think you can see Braveheart, but also the Elizabeth movies, perhaps The Tudors TV series, some of the various movies based on Dumas' The Three Musketeers (not much of the classic Lester movies, though, maybe too old?), and some American and British stuff on late Ancien Regime France (Dangerous Liaisons, Marie Antoinette?). Perhaps some visual influences from AC2 and AC2 Brotherhood's Renaissance Italy as well.

Not much from older popular media (pre-1980s) or mainland European movies and series, though, and everything mixed up, including 'generic' tropes / stereotypes like the snooty noble, the arrogant Frenchman and the modern western fashionista.

 

To summarise: I don't think there's a broader, more structural similarity with either Ancien Régime France or Tudor England, just selective borrowings mediated by popular culture and thrown in the blender.  Maybe inevitable if easy recognisability and accessibility are priorities.

[wcholcombe]

I don't know if it's just me but if Celene doesn't get an heir then everything she fought for (or scheme) will die with her.

 

It would be ironic if she wins the Civil War only for it to be in vain. I'm sure she would marry someone for political gain (like the proposed agreement between Ferelden and Orlais) but will she? I have no idea if she's with Briala because they're friends-with-benefits or if she truly cares for her. I also wonder why Bioware decided for Celene to have an elven lover. It does give an interesting point of view but I can't help think something else could have worked (not that I'm complaining). 

 

Celene is more tolerant and progressive than the average Orleasian but I doubt she's a saint. She still wanted Ferelden (but was willing to marry Cailan as a way to prevent bloodshed). Plus, Orlais is having a small little "war" over a strip of land with Nevarra and, if the summary for the Masked Empire is of any indication, she seems willing to betray Briala to keep a hold of her throne. Let's not forget how she came to the throne. Does she have legitimate claim to it? Did she have her uncle assassinated? How did she keep her older cousins from claiming the throne? So many questions.

 

The real question is, what role will the elves play in the book? How are they related to the Orleasian Civil War? What caused them to rise? What does Briala have to do with it? 

 

Quite honestly, I find The Masked Empire much more intriguing than The Last Flight (even if the protagonist is an elven mage). 

We don't really know what was involved in her coming to the throne.  Her father was a crown prince though.  She has a legitimate claim to the throne as she apparently outsmarted the rest of the contenders for the throne under Orlesian law.  Gaspard didn't consider her to be a threat and therefore didn't account for her and was apparently taken by surprise when she made her claim.

 

She wanted peace with Ferelden.  That was the purpose of the marriage, not to absorb Ferelden but to heal relations between the two countries.

[Gwydden]

We don't really know what was involved in her coming to the throne.  Her father was a crown prince though.  She has a legitimate claim to the throne as she apparently outsmarted the rest of the contenders for the throne under Orlesian law.  Gaspard didn't consider her to be a threat and therefore didn't account for her and was apparently taken by surprise when she made her claim.

 

She wanted peace with Ferelden.  That was the purpose of the marriage, not to absorb Ferelden but to heal relations between the two countries.

Why not both? It seems an extremely easy way to absorb Ferelden without bloodshed, even if it wasn't her main goal. Or to unite both countries, if you prefer it that way, though knowing Cailan and Ferelden's backwater status I have no doubt about who would be the dominant partner.

 

Even if Cailan wasn't about to ditch her daughter, Loghain was right to be pissed when/if he found out.