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[yasuraka.hakkyou]

Lenimph wrote...

AnniLau wrote...

I immediately turn Jowan in, because he annoys me.

Same... I called his gf fat too

yes yes yes. "SHE'S RIGHT HERE!!" lol

[Sarielle]

I'm surprised at all the people bashing Jowan for dragging the PC into his problems. If I suspected I was going to be "made tranquil" I would sure as hell be calling in any and all favors to escape that, lol.

[SusanStoHelit]

Sarielle wrote...

I'm surprised at all the people bashing Jowan for dragging the PC into his problems. If I suspected I was going to be "made tranquil" I would sure as hell be calling in any and all favors to escape that, lol.

True. But then, they wouldn't be going to make him tranquil if he wasn't a blood mage. So: self inflicted is my verdict - and keep me out of it.

Even on my first play through, knowing nothing about what was going to happen, I knew he was lying and wished I could just tell him to ****** off. *sigh* Of course I couldn't. It's either side with him (no way) or be a snitch and backstabber. Sucks really. I wouldn't do either, if I had any choice.

[Ponce de Leon]

There are three scenarios I've seen :

1) Help Jowan, Duncan recruits you because of friend values

2) Betray Jowan when surrounded by templars. Duncan recruits you because you get threatened by Gregoir

3) Betray Jowan at the Phylactery chamber. Lilly and Jowan will get off without you, which will result in Gregoir saying Irving's plan worked. He will still threaten you and you'll get recruited because of the first enchanter's "mistake".



Overall? Killing Gregoir in the origin would be lovely. He becomes much better later during the Broken Circle quest.

Positive sides? The mage origin is the one that nets the most XP, followed by male city elf.

[Sarielle]

SusanStoHelit wrote...

Sarielle wrote...

I'm surprised at all the people bashing Jowan for dragging the PC into his problems. If I suspected I was going to be "made tranquil" I would sure as hell be calling in any and all favors to escape that, lol.

True. But then, they wouldn't be going to make him tranquil if he wasn't a blood mage. So: self inflicted is my verdict - and keep me out of it.

Even on my first play through, knowing nothing about what was going to happen, I knew he was lying and wished I could just tell him to ****** off. *sigh* Of course I couldn't. It's either side with him (no way) or be a snitch and backstabber. Sucks really. I wouldn't do either, if I had any choice.

Lol, even if it were my own doing, I'd totally be turning on the water works asking to be bailed out. But, I guess I can see your point. I'm just a bit surprised people don't have more sympathy. That sounds terrible to me. EDIT: Being made Tranquil, that is.

Modifié par Sarielle, 21 janvier 2010 - 10:54 .

[Zemore]

i Felt the biggest personal feelings with the mage origin neither option is evil



Literally you have your loyalty to jowan or to the first enchanter its a GREY area =/ you do as you must no choice is bad or good its just how it was jowan himself is the one at fault here ... i hate that ****

[Superkenru]

I got completely duped in my playthrough. As soon as the story began and he started talking about how we were such great "friends", I got suckered in and even moreso during the story line after seeing the Tranquil being, well...tranquil.



I was so into playing the paragon role; the noble friend who breaks the rules and exposes the evil and controlling templars for the good of my people, the oppressed mages. I understand everyone was not as gullible as I was, but Jowan let the blood magic loose....I was seriously pissed and couldn't wait to find his **** later in the game.

[RobinMichelleB]

I was totally taken in on my first time through, too. Then he did the blood magic and I was like, WHAT?! How am I so stupid? LoL

[Ameraudur_]

Of the origins I've played so far (haven't played the dwarf ones yet), the mage origin is my favorite. Not just the moral dilemma posed by Jowan but getting to see the Tower and talking to everyone before the Tower is ruined is great. Makes the Broken Circle storyline all the more poignant afterwards.

[frostajulie]

I love insulting Jowans GF "She's standing RIGHT HERE!" I LOL everytime.



I always play a mage that hates the tower sees Irving as a traitor to his people and would do anything to kill a templar. LOVED being a bloodmage.

[RangerSG]

Sarielle wrote...

SusanStoHelit wrote...

Sarielle wrote...

I'm surprised at all the people bashing Jowan for dragging the PC into his problems. If I suspected I was going to be "made tranquil" I would sure as hell be calling in any and all favors to escape that, lol.

True. But then, they wouldn't be going to make him tranquil if he wasn't a blood mage. So: self inflicted is my verdict - and keep me out of it.

Even on my first play through, knowing nothing about what was going to happen, I knew he was lying and wished I could just tell him to ****** off. *sigh* Of course I couldn't. It's either side with him (no way) or be a snitch and backstabber. Sucks really. I wouldn't do either, if I had any choice.

Lol, even if it were my own doing, I'd totally be turning on the water works asking to be bailed out. But, I guess I can see your point. I'm just a bit surprised people don't have more sympathy. That sounds terrible to me. EDIT: Being made Tranquil, that is.

No argument about being made Tranquil seeming horrible to me. (Though many 'choose' that, see Owain.) That said, he put himself in that place by studying Blood Magic inside the Tower. And calling in favors is a whole lot different than "Here, let me give you a plan that is absolutely going to leave you holding the bag while I run away, hopefully with my girlfriend I'm not supposed to have." I mean, even if noone had been waiting, you're still going to be found out. Who's the first person they'd question? And that's even if they can't use magic to sense who's "fingerprints" are down there.

Nope, there's a big difference between 'calling in a marker' and 'setting your friend up.' Jowan did the second. That he's too unthinking to figure out that he's doing it doesn't mean your PC should be as well. Now if you want to play a total heart-before-head PC, that's fine. But the idea that you're "forced" into a bad choice...I don't see turning in Jowan as a bad choice, even without the spoilers of what he later does. If you just ask questions and try to figure out what's going on, your PC will figure out he's playing games with you.

[Sarielle]

Oh yeah, I saw it coming. I'm just saying from his perspective, I might be a rat bastard too if in the same situation, lol. I in no way -- me, the player, not any of my characters -- think that turning him in makes your character bad, or what have you. Wasn't trying to suggest that, if it's how it came across



My Arcane Warrior was too loyal for her own good. The mage that's no more than an idea in my character creator currently will probably also help him, but more for a "stick it to the man" type reasoning than any great affection for Jowan. I can also see her letting the tower be Annulled. >.>; lol.

[RangerSG]

Sarielle wrote...

Oh yeah, I saw it coming. I'm just saying from his perspective, I might be a rat bastard too if in the same situation, lol. I in no way -- me, the player, not any of my characters -- think that turning him in makes your character bad, or what have you. Wasn't trying to suggest that, if it's how it came across

My Arcane Warrior was too loyal for her own good. The mage that's no more than an idea in my character creator currently will probably also help him, but more for a "stick it to the man" type reasoning than any great affection for Jowan. I can also see her letting the tower be Annulled. >.>; lol.

Not saying a player shouldn't RP their character. I'm just amazed at the number of threads that say if you're a mage you're basically forced into making bad decisions. I don't know how that's true if you ask questions, do some observation, and make a couple logical deductions from that. Now that's not to say I like being forced to be the one who turns Jowan in from an IC perspective. And my mage will usually say "I wish my phylactery was still here" when getting down there, but wanting the leash off my neck is a whole lot different than putting my head in the noose.

Honestly, if you're a mage who wants freedom, I can't think of a better option than joining the Grey Wardens, given the circumstances. So my mages who want out are usually begging Duncan to take them away.

[Sarielle]

RangerSG wrote...
Honestly, if you're a mage who wants freedom, I can't think of a better option than joining the Grey Wardens, given the circumstances. So my mages who want out are usually begging Duncan to take them away.

Oh yah. You can bet she's gonna be all "Pleeeeeeeeeze oh pleeeze oh pleeze" when Duncan comes knocking.

Now that I reread that it sounds rather suggestive but you get what I mean, hehe.

[Gold Dragon]

I play Mages that are more loyal to Irving (as a father figure more than a leader or such) than to the Circle, so the Best RP decision is to reveal everything to Irving. Friendship is nice, yes, but what Jowan asks is dangerous. I even got that impression my first play-thru.



What I really wish could have happened is an option to kill Cullen during Broken Circle, tho. ESPECIALLY with a Mage Origin. I mean, really... yes, the poor boy is frightened, but to try to order someone to kill off your friends just because one person turned? Just tell Greagoir that he was charmed/possessed. He'd buy it.

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

RangerSG wrote...

Honestly, if you're a mage who wants freedom, I can't think of a better option than joining the Grey Wardens, given the circumstances. So my mages who want out are usually begging Duncan to take them away.

That's how my mage saw it when Duncan came, he didn't have to force the issue. She was like "Finally, I can get out of this creepy hell hole and take a nice long bath without Cullen staring at me for a change".

The mage origin, in fact, was one of the origins I played where the character had a very high opinion of Duncan, and needed no encouragement to join the Wardens. Especially since it was her first encounter with someone who didn't hate magic or fear it, and wanted her to use her talents to the fullest extent. And Duncan was the only one there who offered any defense in her bid to help Jowan.

So, out of all the origins, at least from my perspective, the Mage gives the scenario for a very willing, eager recruit. Freedom and respect, two things you don't get as a magi. Sign me up!

[Selej]

To make everyone happy, do the little side quest about clearing out those spiders and you'll get that rod to help Jowan, without ever alerting Irving. When you get busted, stand your ground and say that you were helping a friend, which Duncan remarks as a good trait.

[Starcrunchy]

You can also get the rod via the cranky old guy in the library without going to Irving.



Also want to echo the sentiment that both mages I made were pretty eager to join the wardens, because it provided an alternative to the tower. The only other origin I felt so inclined toward Duncan was the Dalish elf origin.

[nubbers666]

sso wut ever happens to his gf after u leave and all is she in mages jail or wut

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

katie916 wrote...

sso wut ever happens to his gf after u leave and all is she in mages jail or wut

Yes, she is shipped of to Aeonar. That's the last you'll see of her.

[Zherran]

I would have liked to have had Cullen join me to fight the spiders in the store room. Maybe expand the store room to include more spiders and maybe a secrete or formally blocked-off portion of the store room that has a bit better gear or something very nice but also include a Boss fight of some sort.

[Carodej]

I always help Jowan. I generally try to role play these things (I mean that is reason I bought this game in the first place). My PCs always have a certain amount of my character, and I would hate living in a gilded cage where any of those guys with the big swords could just kill you at any minute because he thought you were an abomination. Maybe they need permission or something, but a lot of stuff is not spelled out in the game, so...

Anyway, considering the amount of conversation you get from everyone else in the tower, it seems Jowan probably really is supposed to be your best friend there. While I don't appreciate the risk he asks me to take, I can see not wanting to become a Tranquil - that's like a living death.

The ony thing that really bothers me about the origin is that Jowan didn't trust me enough to teach me Blood Magic when we were locked in the tower. But I dislike the Templars and the Chantry, and Irving seems like a sell out, so I help my "friend" Jowan.

Edit: And I always say the line about wishing my phylactery was there too so I could destory it, I want to escape too.

And another random thought about the origin; I'd love to murder knife Cullen there.  He's a paranoid, whiny, ignorant guy with a sword who I really didn't want watching over me.

Modifié par Carodej, 22 janvier 2010 - 04:42 .

[RangerSG]

Carodej wrote...

I always help Jowan. I generally try to role play these things (I mean that is reason I bought this game in the first place). My PCs always have a certain amount of my character, and I would hate living in a gilded cage where any of those guys with the big swords could just kill you at any minute because he thought you were an abomination. Maybe they need permission or something, but a lot of stuff is not spelled out in the game, so...

Anyway, considering the amount of conversation you get from everyone else in the tower, it seems Jowan probably really is supposed to be your best friend there. While I don't appreciate the risk he asks me to take, I can see not wanting to become a Tranquil - that's like a living death.

The ony thing that really bothers me about the origin is that Jowan didn't trust me enough to teach me Blood Magic when we were locked in the tower. But I dislike the Templars and the Chantry, and Irving seems like a sell out, so I help my "friend" Jowan.

Edit: And I always say the line about wishing my phylactery was there too so I could destory it, I want to escape too.

And another random thought about the origin; I'd love to murder knife Cullen there.  He's a paranoid, whiny, ignorant guy with a sword who I really didn't want watching over me.

Being your friend doesn't mean "Doing anything he says just because he asks." And it is spelled out that the Templars cannot simply act without Irving's permission. Heck, even in the Broken Circle quest, Greagoir isn't willing to step into Irving's authority.

Now, you can think Irving is duplicitous. And he is (but then, not entirely without reason). But seeing as with any kind of questioning you can figure out Jowan is trying to manipulate you too...really, what's worse?

Not that I'm going to tell anyone how to RP their character. But even my PC who took for his boon the Circle's freedom would say being hung out to dry by your 'friend' is not a sign of a true friend, but rather someone who sought to use you.

[Lucaman]

I myself believed Jowan when I played through the origin, due to playing a mage who wasn't too happy with the chantry and the templars etc. I didn't really know you could go to Irving D:



But anyway once betrayed by Jowan I made sure to leave my mage untrusting of both him and maleficarum in general, resulting in killing Connor. Oddly enough it also lead to siding with the templars (sorta) in the Broken Circle quest =/.

[Taiyama]

The Mage Origin continues to be my favorite one partly because it's so immersive and partly because at the very beginning it offers you that really tough moral choice between helping your best friend or helping Irving.

My "main" character, the male elf Taiyama Surana, ended up helping Jowan escape. Though he was very much loyal to Irving (who was the only father figure he had since he was taken to the Circle and who was, apparently, his personal teacher) and the Circle, in my mind when he first got to the Circle as a child, he was alone and didn't have any friends for a while until Jowan befriended him. This led to a deep and intense loyalty for Jowan for "saving" him. No matter how much Taiyama didn't want to betray Irving or how the plan might end up with him holding the bag, he couldn't abandon his best friend. Needless to say, he was both incredibly angry and incredibly devastated when Jowan betrayed him.

He almost left Jowan in the cage in Redcliffe. In the end, though, he was still loyal enough to Jowan for "saving" him those many years ago when no one else would befriend him that he let Jowan out so he could help out. He also ended up pleading on Jowan's behalf after Eamon awoke so that Jowan at least got sent to the Circle rather than executed then and there.