31 réponses à ce sujet

[SporkFu]

In my current playthrough I'm at this point in the game. Just finished the geth dreadnought, and am jogging arround the Normandy talking to everyone. When I first step into the port cargo hold, I overhear Javik and Tali talking. During the conversation, Javik tells Tali that, in his cycle, the quarians were the masters of their own planet. 

This means the Quarians were fairly advanced even fifty thousand years ago, at least moreso than any other current species. I mean, Javik calls everyone else primitives.

So, how is it that, in the current cycle, everyone's not a subservient race of the great Quarian empire? 

[Remix-General Aetius]

because the geth booted them from Rannoch........and they most likely became complacent at some point. if a primitive bunch like the geth could boot them from their own home, maybe they weren't so "superior" after all.

Modifié par TheGarden2010, 25 janvier 2014 - 08:50 .

[Coming0fShadows]

I think he means that when they were very very primitive and lived in the trees they were masters over the pyjaks and squirrels when they were hunting and fighting over nuts.

Or Javik is making no sense whatsoever as usual.

Modifié par besterisgood, 25 janvier 2014 - 08:52 .

[Nightdragon8]

Or he is being a troll....

[Massa FX]

Javik is being a troll.
Dontcha luv him?

[Daemul]

OP, you gravely misinterpreted what Javik was saying there. When he uses the phrase "masters of their own planet" he means that the Quarians were the superior species on Rannoch, like Humans are on Earth. It had nothing to do with their technological advancement.

[DeinonSlayer]

I have to wonder how much (if any) Prothean tech the Quarians had to work with compared to other races. Humans had the Mars archives, and developed FTL from eezo present at the facility, but the planet description of Kaddi suggests the Quarians didn't even have access to eezo until they made it through their relay and found other species to trade with.

That would be like if the New Horizons probe which is a year out from Pluto was meant to jump through the Charon Relay.

[RangerSG]

DeinonSlayer wrote...

I have to wonder how much (if any) Prothean tech the Quarians had to work with compared to other races. Humans had the Mars archives, and developed FTL from eezo present at the facility, but the planet description of Kaddi suggests the Quarians didn't even have access to eezo until they made it through their relay and found other species to trade with.

That would be like if the New Horizons probe which is a year out from Pluto was meant to jump through the Charon Relay.

Indeed. I'm inclined to think Javik's trolling. Though the Quarians could be somewhere along Yaag levels at the time. The Protheans may have ignored them because they didn't appear biotic adept.

[caradoc2000]

The Quarians couldn't have been very advanced or the Reapers would have harvested them already back then.

[RangerSG]

caradoc2000 wrote...

The Quarians couldn't have been very advanced or the Reapers would have harvested them already back then.

Anything pre-space flight is safe. That's not entirely 'primitve' as such. 

[DeinonSlayer]

RangerSG wrote...

caradoc2000 wrote...

The Quarians couldn't have been very advanced or the Reapers would have harvested them already back then.

Anything pre-space flight is safe. That's not entirely 'primitve' as such. 

There's one planet in ME2 which was home to a bronze-age civilization which was bombarded to extinction, Reaper-style.

Had they left that civilization alone, think about how much advancement it would have made in 50,000 years. Potentially enough to become a threat.

I doubt they'd leave the Raloi alone even if they did get rid of their satellites in time. In space or grounded, they're too advanced to leave unchecked for another 50,000 years.

[shodiswe]

Daemul wrote...

OP, you gravely misinterpreted what Javik was saying there. When he uses the phrase "masters of their own planet" he means that the Quarians were the superior species on Rannoch, like Humans are on Earth. It had nothing to do with their technological advancement.

+1

[Almostfaceman]

DeinonSlayer wrote...

There's one planet in ME2 which was home to a bronze-age civilization which was bombarded to extinction, Reaper-style.

I'm curious, does it state explicitly that the civilization was detroyed by the Reapers? Because any advanced civilization could bomb a bronze-age civilization into extinction. We could do it right now.

[AlanC9]

DeinonSlayer wrote...
There's one planet in ME2 which was home to a bronze-age civilization which was bombarded to extinction, Reaper-style.

Had they left that civilization alone, think about how much advancement it would have made in 50,000 years. Potentially enough to become a threat.

I doubt they'd leave the Raloi alone even if they did get rid of their satellites in time. In space or grounded, they're too advanced to leave unchecked for another 50,000 years.

Right. I think they'd have to harvest or destroy anyone who's discovered agriculture. Though of course the vanguard Reaper can just keep an eye on everything and start the harvest early if some race develops too fast.

[SwobyJ]

Masters of their own planet doesn't mean much, functionally.

Just means they were at the top of the chain on Rannoch.

Like - humans were masters of Earth in 1400AD, for example. Doesn't mean much, in the terms of MEU.

Javik was making a more rhetorical point, from what I remember(?). The Quarians had their planet. Then millenia after, they just *had* to make machines with any sentience, and regardless of the fault after that, the fact that machines were even made, was bad news. And now Quarians roam space without a home.

Javik = Stop dealing with sentient machines, it'll only bite you. They'll grow into sapience and have the upper hand over you.

Modifié par SwobyJ, 25 janvier 2014 - 06:47 .

[SwobyJ]

And yeah, from the sounds of it, the Quarians were at least relatively advanced.

Of spaceflight? Seems not, unless we get more info in a future game (which imo we should always account for the possibility of).

But enough that Prothians were likely tracking them and ready to 'welcome' them into the Empire.

Whereas the others... not so much. Even Asari were just in the process of being taught by Prothians the basics.

The Quarians are all about tech tinkering, even more than Salarians. Give them a progressive environment, resources to build, and they'll outperform any other species when it comes to synthetic advancements. Even the Geth themselves seem to know that they'd only be better off existing alongside Quarians, than at constant conflict or in victory over them. They're that imaginative element that is suppressed by the Reaping Cycles and their own hubris, but that element just might be able to flourish now.

Modifié par SwobyJ, 25 janvier 2014 - 06:53 .

[DeinonSlayer]

@SwobyJ
Not just tech-savvy; it seems their defining traits are curiosity and creativity. There are numerous references made to their poetry, music, and dance. IIRC the asari on Illium described them as having "old souls."

Of course, the only example of this seen in-game is Tali's singing...

:innocent:

How far along they were in the last cycle is anyone's guess. I'd say somewhere in the vicinity of human tech at the same time - spears and stone tools (really, we were already technically the masters of our world by the time we reached that point). Probably goes for every sophont in this cycle.

Modifié par DeinonSlayer, 25 janvier 2014 - 07:31 .

[Han Shot First]

Daemul wrote...

OP, you gravely misinterpreted what Javik was saying there. When he uses the phrase "masters of their own planet" he means that the Quarians were the superior species on Rannoch, like Humans are on Earth. It had nothing to do with their technological advancement.

This.

[SwobyJ]

DeinonSlayer wrote...

@SwobyJ
Not just tech-savvy; it seems their defining traits are curiosity and creativity. There are numerous references made to their poetry, music, and dance. IIRC the asari on Illium described them as having "old souls."

Of course, the only example of this seen in-game is Tali's singing...

:innocent:

How far along they were in the last cycle is anyone's guess. I'd say somewhere in the vicinity of human tech at the same time - spears and stone tools (really, we were already technically the masters of our world by the time we reached that point). Probably goes for every sophont in this cycle.

I think they were more likely beyond spears and stone tools.

Remember that it seems to be that in the MEU, humanity's overall advancement pace itself is the fastest anyone has heard of.

I think the Quarians could take 10,000s of years to get to where they built the geth, where it took 1000s for humanity to get to its current point. I don't think that dimishes the Quarians' creative and curious capability, at least.

I think for the Quarians though, once they DO grasp a tech, they might try to explore every facet of it they can before moving forward (compared to especially Salarians and Humans).
I'd think that at any stage of their civilization(s) before the Geth, their works themselves might have rivaled anything that even the Asari had, at similar stages. Heck I wouldn't be surprised if they were on their way to becoming a Council member if it wasn't for their exodus from Rannoch.

If I'm right about that, this may be what people missed about the Quarians. Before the Morning/Geth War, they possibly held some of the biggest promise of organic development in the galaxy. Heck, for all we know, it could be one of the best outcomes of the whole Cycle system's evolutionary experiment.

But the creation of Geth changed that, along with the Quarians' disregard for any sapience in them. The combination was devestating, and essentially wrote the Quarians out of the history books for 100s of years after.

Modifié par SwobyJ, 25 janvier 2014 - 07:45 .

[SporkFu]

Oddly enough, as many times as I've played through ME3, I didn't consider the trolling angle.

As for the rest, well... when Javik describes humans during his cycle, it's as primitives living in caves. Hanar were minnows in the ocean, asari hadn't mastered writing yet, salarians were eating flies and licking their own eyeballs. Quarians were the masters of their planet.

I'm not saying the quarians were significantly more advanced than anyone else, or as caradoc2000 says, they would have been wiped out by the reapers... but certainly it seems as though they were further along the evolutionary trail.

[Han Shot First]

I think you're reading too much into that 'masters of the planet' line.

50,000 years ago our ancestors were also the masters of their planet. They were also hunting with spears and living in caves.

[Barquiel]

They yahg are basically as advanced as we are now, and the Reapers left them. Maybe the Quarians were more advanced than the other citadel races in the last cycle...but they stagnated at some point in their history. Or Javik meant something else, as mentioned above. I suppose that is impossible to tell without further information.

Modifié par Barquiel, 25 janvier 2014 - 08:19 .

[SwobyJ]

Barquiel wrote...

They yahg are basically as advanced as we are now, and the Reapers left them. Maybe the Quarians were more advanced than the other citadel races in the last cycle...but they stagnated at some point in their history. Or Javik meant something else, as mentioned above. I suppose that is impossible to tell without further information.

I like to optimistically think that it wasn't so much stagnation, but more that they always endeavored to master every part of tech that they do learn. And then when it came to AI, they bit off more than they could chew/control. Because at least in the MEU, 'AI' is a whole other dangerous concept that I guess influences the course of galaxies

EDIT: Basically I'm saying that I don't think they had any previous dark age, or period where they didn't advance much at all, or anything like that.

Modifié par SwobyJ, 25 janvier 2014 - 08:52 .

[RangerSG]

SwobyJ wrote...

Barquiel wrote...

They yahg are basically as advanced as we are now, and the Reapers left them. Maybe the Quarians were more advanced than the other citadel races in the last cycle...but they stagnated at some point in their history. Or Javik meant something else, as mentioned above. I suppose that is impossible to tell without further information.

I like to optimistically think that it wasn't so much stagnation, but more that they always endeavored to master every part of tech that they do learn. And then when it came to AI, they bit off more than they could chew/control. Because at least in the MEU, 'AI' is a whole other dangerous concept that I guess influences the course of galaxies

EDIT: Basically I'm saying that I don't think they had any previous dark age, or period where they didn't advance much at all, or anything like that.

I doubt they 'stagnated' or had a Dark Age as such at all. Until the Morning War. Having a 99.5% genocide inflicted on your people destroys most of the culture and technological advancement. Especially when everything after that has to be aimed at survival. 

[Han Shot First]

The Quarians weren't space-faring when the Reapers annihilated the Protheans, otherwise the Quarians would have disappeared as well.

'Masters of their planet' simply means that they were the apex predator. The planet and everything that inhabited it belonged to them. That isn't the case in the current era, where the Geth have usurped control over Rannoch. And Javik was being his usual trollish self by pointing it out.