Not going to list any but, as a generic example, the ones adding races or tileset features from other settings are always miles from complete. Those haks often end up leaving out all my favourites from the setting in favour of a small handful that I don't even recognise. My problem isn't that what they did or didn't include though but that there isn't enough in the hak to make a module in that setting. This renders the hak useless until a more complete version is released.
apparently it only bothers me though because there hasn't been a new version of any of those haks since I first bought NWN1 back when it was newish. Sigh.
I do understand, it's been explained to me before, that a complete conversion is a lot of work. I don't expect anyone to make one though. All I expect is that a hak to add content from a non DND setting include enough content for me to actually play in that setting if I felt like it.
That sounds like a fair expectation right?
Some haks dissapoint me
Débuté par
Nevercallmebyname
, janv. 26 2014 01:16
Retour en haut
#2
Posté 26 janvier 2014 - 01:25
Tarot Redhand
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Just want to clear one thing up here. By another setting do you in fact mean another game or are you referring to other DnD/D20 Modern settings?
TR
TR
#3
Posté 26 janvier 2014 - 01:30
henesua
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If you find a HAK pack inadequate you have some options:
(1) expand it yourself
(2) talk to the artist to assess their interest
(1) expand it yourself
(2) talk to the artist to assess their interest
#4
Posté 26 janvier 2014 - 01:51
Nevercallmebyname
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I mean ones from other games or from tv series
I will be making a big hak in the future (my 100+ creature hak) but my desktop computer is presently packed away in a small box so I cannot access to tools to do so.
I'm thinking most of the artists I'm referring to have probably moved on to other games.
I will be making a big hak in the future (my 100+ creature hak) but my desktop computer is presently packed away in a small box so I cannot access to tools to do so.
I'm thinking most of the artists I'm referring to have probably moved on to other games.
#5
Posté 26 janvier 2014 - 02:10
Athain
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You realize that custom content creators are volunteers, right? They don't owe you anything - they're not being paid, and in most cases they're not even making stuff for your use, they're just making stuff they would want to use themselves, and they then decide to share it with everyone out of the generosity of their hearts.
All custom content - literally all of it - is extra credit. It strikes me as grossly, obscenely entitled to complain when someone gives you a free lunch because it's the wrong flavor, or there aren't enough side dishes, or whatever.
It's a free lunch. It's a gift. Be grateful.
All custom content - literally all of it - is extra credit. It strikes me as grossly, obscenely entitled to complain when someone gives you a free lunch because it's the wrong flavor, or there aren't enough side dishes, or whatever.
It's a free lunch. It's a gift. Be grateful.
Modifié par Athain, 26 janvier 2014 - 02:15 .
#7
Posté 26 janvier 2014 - 03:19
Hekatoncheires
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There was a big hoopla years ago where many of the community's artists left because they felt unappreciated. We lost a lot when they left.
If you have constructive criticisms, just about all the half-decent cc folks here are open and welcome to hearing it. Art is time consuming, and these folks also have lives, families, and mouths to feed. None of us gets paid for any of this.
If you have constructive criticisms, just about all the half-decent cc folks here are open and welcome to hearing it. Art is time consuming, and these folks also have lives, families, and mouths to feed. None of us gets paid for any of this.
#8
Posté 26 janvier 2014 - 03:35
ShadowM
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I can only suggest you look at a hak that has promise and is only missing a few features that you want and ask if someone can complete it. Others have brought these things up and it has opened a discussion on that particular feature and even had some CC makers jump on it and fix / add / complete it. Good luck 
#9
Posté 26 janvier 2014 - 05:21
Estelindis
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No, it does not sound like a fair expectation. Everyone makes as much or as little as they like, for fun, and that's just how it should be.Nevercallmebyname wrote...
All I expect is that a hak to add content from a non DND setting include enough content for me to actually play in that setting if I felt like it.
That sounds like a fair expectation right?
In another thread, you said to Bannor Bloodfist:
Setting aside the fact that Bannor successfully encouraged teams of content makers for years (a fact of which you seem unaware?), an analogous question might be: "Instead of criticising what you find lacking, have you considered filling the gap yourself?"Nevercallmebyname wrote...
Instead of telling people to give up and go home, have you considered encouraging people to stick with their projects long enough to finish them?
You mention "making" a big creature hakpak in the future, but the fact that you have, for instance, asked others to make a bugbear replacement for you makes me suspect that you mean you'll be compiling a hak of other people's work rather than making your own unique creatures. Don't get me wrong: I have no problem with compilation haks, nor with people making requests. In fact, I often find it enjoyable to fulfil people's CC requests. But if you're going to leave it up to other people to do this stuff, I don't think you should expect your criticism of certain gaps to be ecstatically received. Bear in mind that the vast majority of us who can now create original content started with no knowledge of 3d modelling. If we can learn, why shouldn't you?
#10
Posté 26 janvier 2014 - 05:44
KlatchainCoffee
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In my case, I find that seeing all the people getting creative with CC around here is seriously encouraging me to go and get to grips with gmax and make a few models and tileset features that I currently so sorely need for my world/story building. IIF I'm lucky enough to find the time to get around to this, I know that if I get really stuck folks over here are more than likely to give me a hand in getting unstuck and reaching my goal.
Modifié par KlatchainCoffee, 26 janvier 2014 - 05:45 .
#11
Posté 26 janvier 2014 - 05:50
Estelindis
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You are absolutely right about that!KlatchainCoffee wrote...
IF I'm lucky enough to find the time to get around to this, I know that if I get really stuck folks over here are more than likely to give me a hand in getting unstuck and reaching my goal.
We have all been in the position of having to learn, and often had more experienced people giving us some pointers, so it's nice to be able to "pay back" that help (albeit to new CC makers rather than old ones).
#12
Posté 26 janvier 2014 - 05:59
Sumthing
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Nevercallmebyname wrote...
Not going to list any but, as a generic example, the ones adding races or tileset features from other settings are always miles from complete. Those haks often end up leaving out all my favourites from the setting in favour of a small handful that I don't even recognise. My problem isn't that what they did or didn't include though but that there isn't enough in the hak to make a module in that setting. This renders the hak useless until a more complete version is released.
apparently it only bothers me though because there hasn't been a new version of any of those haks since I first bought NWN1 back when it was newish. Sigh.
I do understand, it's been explained to me before, that a complete conversion is a lot of work. I don't expect anyone to make one though. All I expect is that a hak to add content from a non DND setting include enough content for me to actually play in that setting if I felt like it.
That sounds like a fair expectation right?
Many haks disappoint me. Of course, I can just not use them, or use what they provide. I can't force their maker to finish them or add to them, and free things are almost always good.
Modifié par Sumthing, 26 janvier 2014 - 06:00 .
#13
Posté 26 janvier 2014 - 06:06
Nevercallmebyname
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Athain wrote...
You realize that custom content creators are volunteers, right? They don't owe you anything - they're not being paid, and in most cases they're not even making stuff for your use, they're just making stuff they would want to use themselves, and they then decide to share it with everyone out of the generosity of their hearts.
All custom content - literally all of it - is extra credit. It strikes me as grossly, obscenely entitled to complain when someone gives you a free lunch because it's the wrong flavor, or there aren't enough side dishes, or whatever.
It's a free lunch. It's a gift. Be grateful.
ok see that's exactly what I said this WASNT about. I'm not complaining about a lack of sides or that I don't like what's on offer but that there isn't enough on offer to make a sandwich. It's incomplete and that is all that bothers me about it.
#14
Posté 26 janvier 2014 - 06:14
Nevercallmebyname
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Estelindis wrote...
You mention "making" a big creature hakpak in the future, but the fact that you have, for instance, asked others to make a bugbear replacement for you makes me suspect that you mean you'll be compiling a hak of other people's work rather than making your own unique creatures. Don't get me wrong: I have no problem with compilation haks, nor with people making requests. In fact, I often find it enjoyable to fulfil people's CC requests. But if you're going to leave it up to other people to do this stuff, I don't think you should expect your criticism of certain gaps to be ecstatically received. Bear in mind that the vast majority of us who can now create original content started with no knowledge of 3d modelling. If we can learn, why shouldn't you?
I also mentioned that I don't have access to my larger computer. I have several creatures in progress on the other computer I just cant work on them at this time. That is why I asked for the bugbear replacement. It would be easier to just compile other people's creatures but I'd like to do some of the work that gets seen in game as well.
I kind of feel like only half of what I've said has been read because I'm starting to repeat myself a bit.
#15
Posté 26 janvier 2014 - 06:19
Hekatoncheires
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Incomplete is a subjective term; some tilesets lack a lot of features, sometimes because the creator designed it for a different purpose, or because of the sheer amount of work putting in new features requires is beyond the scope of time they're able to put into a project.
CC creators here -aren't- getting paid for this; they will generally do the sorts of works that speak to them, or are within their ability, or that can be completed within the timeframe they have available to work on NWN. Complaining here about it won't change any of that; it just comes off as incredibly entitled, and is an insult to creatives, diminishing the value of their time and their work.
CC creators here -aren't- getting paid for this; they will generally do the sorts of works that speak to them, or are within their ability, or that can be completed within the timeframe they have available to work on NWN. Complaining here about it won't change any of that; it just comes off as incredibly entitled, and is an insult to creatives, diminishing the value of their time and their work.
#16
Posté 26 janvier 2014 - 06:28
Estelindis
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No, I read everything you said. However, if I wanted to make some content but had no access to my CC computer, I would wait until I did rather than asking someone else to do it for me. I mean, to the best of my knowledge, any computer capable of running NWN is capable of running its modding tools - and if your smaller computer can't run NWN, then you don't really need the creature until you're back on your larger computer anyway. I assumed that you would think about it the same way. Clearly, I was mistaken about that much.Nevercallmebyname wrote...
I also mentioned that I don't have access to my larger computer. I have several creatures in progress on the other computer I just cant work on them at this time. That is why I asked for the bugbear replacement. It would be easier to just compile other people's creatures but I'd like to do some of the work that gets seen in game as well.
I kind of feel like only half of what I've said has been read because I'm starting to repeat myself a bit.
#17
Posté 26 janvier 2014 - 07:03
Cain Maris
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MerricksDad: Excellent summary. Well played.
Nevercallmebyname (nice paradox,btw.) Have read all of your words. Was there a point other than to complain that the volunteer content-providers haven't volunteered enough to suit you? I mean I get that you feel that way, although I don't quite know why, but I don't know what else you thought this post might accomplish.
If that's not what you meant to say, you may want to rethink your approach: that's how I read it, and how some actual volunteer content providers have read it.
If you annoy Estelindis or Tarot or Henesua or anyone else who makes wonderful things (Still! After years!) to the point where you diminish their joy in creation, there are a number of terms for you that don't need your name.
This community of creators is incredible, they give us amazing work for nothing, and there's almost no modding community with the depth and longevity of this one.
Pedal your silly whining elsewhere please, or be a lot clearer and less offensive with whatever else you might be trying to say.
Nevercallmebyname (nice paradox,btw.) Have read all of your words. Was there a point other than to complain that the volunteer content-providers haven't volunteered enough to suit you? I mean I get that you feel that way, although I don't quite know why, but I don't know what else you thought this post might accomplish.
If that's not what you meant to say, you may want to rethink your approach: that's how I read it, and how some actual volunteer content providers have read it.
If you annoy Estelindis or Tarot or Henesua or anyone else who makes wonderful things (Still! After years!) to the point where you diminish their joy in creation, there are a number of terms for you that don't need your name.
This community of creators is incredible, they give us amazing work for nothing, and there's almost no modding community with the depth and longevity of this one.
Pedal your silly whining elsewhere please, or be a lot clearer and less offensive with whatever else you might be trying to say.
#18
Posté 26 janvier 2014 - 08:43
boodah83
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Since everyone else already did a pretty good job of burning you at the stake for your heresy, I'd just like to say that I disagree with your statement in general.
Imo, one of the greatest things about NWN is that you could create a module in pretty much every setting I can think of with all the custom content available on the vault - if you're willing to put in some work, that is. For example, while maybe not perfect, I just love D20 Modern Mod and all the possibilities it opens up. Or as another example, there is a lot of pretty cool stuff on the vault to create modules in an Asian setting (Wuxia or Samurai style), though you might have to compile a hak yourself or do at least some 2da work in this case.
Maybe you can tell us which setting(s) you're talking about and maybe then someone could point you to some stuff that might help you out with whatever you're trying to do.
Imo, one of the greatest things about NWN is that you could create a module in pretty much every setting I can think of with all the custom content available on the vault - if you're willing to put in some work, that is. For example, while maybe not perfect, I just love D20 Modern Mod and all the possibilities it opens up. Or as another example, there is a lot of pretty cool stuff on the vault to create modules in an Asian setting (Wuxia or Samurai style), though you might have to compile a hak yourself or do at least some 2da work in this case.
Maybe you can tell us which setting(s) you're talking about and maybe then someone could point you to some stuff that might help you out with whatever you're trying to do.
#19
Posté 26 janvier 2014 - 09:29
Pstemarie
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Nevercallmebyname wrote...
Not going to list any but, as a generic example, the ones adding races or tileset features from other settings are always miles from complete. Those haks often end up leaving out all my favourites from the setting in favour of a small handful that I don't even recognise. My problem isn't that what they did or didn't include though but that there isn't enough in the hak to make a module in that setting. This renders the hak useless until a more complete version is released.
apparently it only bothers me though because there hasn't been a new version of any of those haks since I first bought NWN1 back when it was newish. Sigh.
I do understand, it's been explained to me before, that a complete conversion is a lot of work. I don't expect anyone to make one though. All I expect is that a hak to add content from a non DND setting include enough content for me to actually play in that setting if I felt like it.
That sounds like a fair expectation right?
Got a few questions for you? Feel free to friend me and to PM me if you rather respond in private...
1. What conversion/haks are you talking about?
2. What is missing which you would need to make said content useable?
3. Bugbears - have you seen the ones by LoW or the ones by me that are in Monster Mash and Project Q?
4. Since I'm planning on redoing the bugbears again - using the Project Q orcs by Ragnarok_mr4 as a base - do YOU have any suggestions for what the final product should look like?
Modifié par Pstemarie, 26 janvier 2014 - 09:31 .
#20
Posté 26 janvier 2014 - 10:33
Mecheon
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Check out the other thread Pstemarie, NCMBN's looking for the bear model but with an insectoid head, not a D&D style one
I'd aim for a more mythological version which, through sheer coincidence, will end up looking a lot like a Quaggoth
I'd aim for a more mythological version which, through sheer coincidence, will end up looking a lot like a Quaggoth
#21
Posté 26 janvier 2014 - 10:51
Pstemarie
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Mecheon wrote...
Check out the other thread Pstemarie, NCMBN's looking for the bear model but with an insectoid head, not a D&D style one
I'd aim for a more mythological version which, through sheer coincidence, will end up looking a lot like a Quaggoth
Thanks for the tip Mecheon. I've checked it out and nothing I'm interested in. I'm bashing together the DLA ogre with the NWN2 bugbear head. Add some armor and it'll work for me.
#22
Posté 26 janvier 2014 - 11:33
Nevercallmebyname
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Ok, I've successfully turned the whole NWN community against myself so I'm really sorry for posting this. I didn't realise it would upset everyone. I defended it for a bit and still hold my position but I do now see that it is both offensive and full of holes so I'm going to go away. Let this thread sink to the abyss and then hopefully you wont be waving torches and pitchforks when I return.
And Estelindis, while I could put the moding tools on my laptop my 3Dsmax is on the desktop. you're right though. I'll get the bugbear I've already requested and then do the rest myself when I have my computer back.
And Estelindis, while I could put the moding tools on my laptop my 3Dsmax is on the desktop. you're right though. I'll get the bugbear I've already requested and then do the rest myself when I have my computer back.
#23
Posté 26 janvier 2014 - 01:34
Estelindis
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Ah, I see. I didn't realise that you use 3dsMax for everything. On a system that can't handle 3dsMax, I would use GMax, which is quite an old tool with a small download size. My oldest NWN-running computer could run it. Even on my best computer, I have both 3d programs installed, as I like the simplicity of GMax as well as the flexibility and power of 3dsMax. Just a thought, in case you were itching to get back to CC work.
For the record, a thread like this isn't nearly enough to make me stop working on custom content. It was a bit annoying, but it was just a genuine mistake based on misapprehension. Thanks to Nevercallmebyname for apologising. Quite happy to let it sink. I hope that the constructive suggestions of people less peeved (or maybe just more self-restrained) than me can at least be of help.
For the record, a thread like this isn't nearly enough to make me stop working on custom content. It was a bit annoying, but it was just a genuine mistake based on misapprehension. Thanks to Nevercallmebyname for apologising. Quite happy to let it sink. I hope that the constructive suggestions of people less peeved (or maybe just more self-restrained) than me can at least be of help.
#24
Posté 26 janvier 2014 - 01:52
Malagant
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I wanted one particular head geometry from a certain game for my main character on my LAN, as I had already done a texture but had no skills with 3D art. I also had no 3DSMax. Instead of pestering Estelindis for just one head, or complaining that somehow the one head geometry I was really interested in securing somehow didn't make it in and therefore her head pack was obviously incomplete and a disappointment, I simply explained my interest in why I wanted it and asked if she would mind a quick write up as a how-to.
That is showing respect for a CC makers contributions, not dinegrating her for not converting every head in the game.
Instead, being one of the most personable individuals I've come across on here, this goddess was patient enough to make time for me from probably six time zones away, during her busy day-to-day schedule, to patiently coach me step by step over messenger from beginning to end (with screen caps, even). Had I approached her in the manner of this post, I'd likely not have had the treatment from her I did.
The point is, I would think she is characteristic of many of the CC creators that are still here, always willing to help, and their contributions should be celebrated. Adding something does not create a status of incomplete, it's (free) bonus content.
It comes down to how one frames their presentation, and your initial presentation does come off as entitled and disparaging. Making an unconstructive criticism and then treating the criticism of that as mob mentality is just extreme.
That is showing respect for a CC makers contributions, not dinegrating her for not converting every head in the game.
Instead, being one of the most personable individuals I've come across on here, this goddess was patient enough to make time for me from probably six time zones away, during her busy day-to-day schedule, to patiently coach me step by step over messenger from beginning to end (with screen caps, even). Had I approached her in the manner of this post, I'd likely not have had the treatment from her I did.
The point is, I would think she is characteristic of many of the CC creators that are still here, always willing to help, and their contributions should be celebrated. Adding something does not create a status of incomplete, it's (free) bonus content.
It comes down to how one frames their presentation, and your initial presentation does come off as entitled and disparaging. Making an unconstructive criticism and then treating the criticism of that as mob mentality is just extreme.
Modifié par Malagant, 26 janvier 2014 - 01:57 .
#25
Posté 26 janvier 2014 - 02:20
boodah83
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I don't think the dude meant to say that the negative reaction to his initial posts is just mob mentality. Plus he already apologized. I guess the public execution is off.
*disappointed puts away his 13 part DIY lynch mob party set... for now*
*disappointed puts away his 13 part DIY lynch mob party set... for now*
