80 réponses à ce sujet

[SwobyJ]

EntropicAngel wrote...

SwobyJ wrote...

If you continue the more antagonistic stance against the Reapers (instead of 'stopping' them, you're going to 'kill' them and take revenge), then go Destroy, then see the breath scene in the original ending...

It's not enough. It's just not! You don't leave it hanging there! Jeez!

It's really only with EC and Citadel that a player can really come to peace with it, and I'm mostly just talking from my perspective there, haha.

Ending a trilogy with a breath inward in rubble..my god...

Dude. ME was about the Reapers. THATS how they ended the series: with the Reapers destroyed.

This is the main misunderstanding I see: people focusing on things other than the main plot and thus having alternate expectations for the ending based on that.

Nah I chose Synthesis my first playthrough. No Reapers destroyed there

And no, Mass Effect put focus first and foremost on the characters. The plot itself revolved around the Reapers. Doesn't have to do with what I said in the last post.

[SwobyJ]

All Bioware games (at least KOTOR and onward) are about the characters.

The main plot is always about a larger threat, yes.

But even sometimes, the main plot is put off to the side entirely, for the sake of exploring the characters.

That's what I was saying. That ending the trilogy of the main character of three games end with an inward breath, is really screwed up, if that's to be taken as the end of him/her.

It really would be better, in the conclusive sense, to have Shepard never have that breath at all/

[SwobyJ]

It's the "hey he's alive!" that is better for the first or second installment, not the conclusion of the trilogy.

Ok, actually, I'll just end that here. I don't think we're going to be agreeing about stuff

[Kennastorm]

@AlexMBrennan

"Isn't that like the idea behind every story ever told by mankind? Hero goes on epic quest and defeats the bad guys?"

At some point it ends. Every good story has an ending. My gripe with the ME3 ending is that it is not an ending. It is a segue' into another game. Instead of creating a quality ending for a good game, they decided to continue the story with a sub-par ending.

"Sorry, I literally cannot understand what you are trying to say - on the one hand, it's bad if the Reaper story is over, but it is also bad if the Reaper story isn't over? What is it that you want?"

Then read it again. I want a 3 part series with an ending that doesn't involve a dream sequence. Admittedly, the Inception reference made me chuckle.

"You have an ending: Shepard defeated the Reaper threat. Just because the universe didn't explode doesn't mean that Shepard's quest is still ongoing."

The breather ending indicates that Shepard is back on Earth. He never made it to the beam. The quest isn't over. The ending we saw never happened if you consider the breather ending.

"Haven't you heard? Bioware will be releasing the final piece of DLC revealing IT to be true next week!"

You've spent too much time on the internets, sir. Time to get away from them for a bit and release that pent up aggression.

@OdanUrr

"You do know this is 2014 and ME3 is over and done with, right?"

And ME4 has been announced. Care to bet that the reapers aren't dead, Shepard failed, and this story continues with one of the NPC's? Also, if you don't like the discussion, don't post. Save your snarky comment and go rub one out or something.

@Obadiah

"@Kennastorm
Dude, its a glorious story of Organic and Synthetic coming together to chart the future of civilization. And the ending is pretty damn final. What else could you possibly want?"

It's not. There's too much money involved in this series for EA to let it go and be happy with what they've made. The ending can't be final due to the breather scene. More to the point, how the hell are there suddenly trees and dead bodies after the laser strike? It was a dream sequence. Which means that nothing was accomplished with the ending--at all.

*THAT* is my gripe with the ending.

@SwobyJ

"Ending a trilogy with a breath inward in rubble..my god..."

This.

----

Let me rephrase: The ending was terrible because it wasn't a true ending. It was a dream sequence, meaning that more takes place after Shepard takes up. Undoubtedly this is where ME4 will begin. Another long fight against the Reapers, maintaining unity against them, working with limited resources in a war that's nearly impossible to win. It's the Assassin's Creed profit-model all over again.

Modifié par Kennastorm, 26 janvier 2014 - 05:55 .

[Ithurael]

OP i love your gumption but in the end classic IT does not exist. Gambol already confirmed that shep is on the citadel in the post breath scene. Sure you can move the goal posts, but that is just...moving the goal posts...it feels unnatural.

The ending was a result of poor trilogy planning, an new head writer, and a rushed timetable by EA.

[AlexMBrennan]

How could IT be debunked? It's evidence-proof.

That's not, strictly speaking, the same thing. You can't prove that there isn't an invisible intangible unicorn living in my garage, but we all agree that it's silly for me to believe that it must be so.

And ME4 has been announced. Care to bet that the reapers aren't dead, Shepard failed

To clarify - you are going to give me money if ME4 does not reveal IT to be true? Where do I sign up?

Modifié par AlexMBrennan, 26 janvier 2014 - 09:25 .

[OdanUrr]

Kennastorm wrote...

@OdanUrr

"You do know this is 2014 and ME3 is over and done with, right?"

And ME4 has been announced. Care to bet that the reapers aren't dead, Shepard failed, and this story continues with one of the NPC's? Also, if you don't like the discussion, don't post. Save your snarky comment and go rub one out or something.

Wow, must've touched a nerve there. I can't understand how people can still delude themselves into thinking that the next Mass Effect game will be a continuation of the events of ME3 when BioWare has already stated it won't be. What happens when Mass Effect Next releases and you're proven wrong yet again? Will you fool yourself into thinking you will be proven right in ME5?

[AlexMBrennan]

Will you fool yourself into thinking you will be proven right in ME5?

Christians have been believing that Jesus will return next Saturday for two millennia.

[AlanC9]

AlexMBrennan wrote...

How could IT be debunked? It's evidence-proof.

That's not, strictly speaking, the same thing. You can't prove that there isn't an invisible intangible unicorn living in my garage, but we all agree that it's silly for me to believe that it must be so.

Right. I meant that there's no way to prove the unicorn doesn't exist to someone who already believes in the unicorn.

And ME4 has been announced. Care to bet that the reapers aren't dead, Shepard failed

To clarify - you are going to give me money if ME4 does not reveal IT to be true? Where do I sign up?

Me too.  I'll take my winnings in Bioware points.

[Dean_the_Young]

Finally get around to buying Javik with those winnings, Alan?

[AlanC9]

Kennastorm wrote...
At some point it ends. Every good story has an ending. My gripe with the ME3 ending is that it is not an ending. It is a segue' into another game. Instead of creating a quality ending for a good game, they decided to continue the story with a sub-par ending.

Then read it again. I want a 3 part series with an ending that doesn't involve a dream sequence. 

Wait a minute. Back in the first post you said

I'd like to thank BioWare for another great series. I'm still disappointed in the ending, but if the Indoctrination Theory turns out to be correct, then this will have been among the best series I've played so far.

But IT is a non-ending that involves a dream sequence. Isn't IT itself your problem?

Modifié par AlanC9, 26 janvier 2014 - 05:31 .

[AlanC9]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Finally get around to buying Javik with those winnings, Alan?

Nah. He's not very important. It's between Citadel, Leviathan, and LotSB.

[Dean_the_Young]

Ooh, Citadel. Definitely Citadel. Probably the most content for you dollar of any Bioware DLC in the last several years.

[SwobyJ]

I love Citadel.



You're a winner!

"Will another victory ever match the one you just experienced?" lol

Modifié par SwobyJ, 26 janvier 2014 - 06:13 .

[ImaginaryMatter]

Haha, that vid. Way to walk it off Shepard.

[DoomsdayDevice]

AlanC9 wrote...

DoomsdayDevice wrote...

IT has never been debunked. Anyone who tells you that just doesn't like IT. Breath scene still happens at the very end, also in the EC.

How could IT be debunked? It's evidence-proof. Anything inconvenient for you guys can just be handwaved away as more indoctrination.

That's funny because IT has tons of stuff to back up its claims, while anything inconvenient for the people who take the ending at face value is being handwaved as 'bad writing'.

To me, it's obvious. You came to the Citadel to destroy the Reapers. That was the problem you promised your allies and friends to solve. Then you meet the Reaper Overlord, and suddenly the problem turns into the unavoidable and everlasting conflict between organics and synthetics. He simply confronts you with a supposedly bigger problem (that you didn't even set out to solve), and suddenly the Reapers aren't the problem any more, they're a solution, albeit a flawed one.

He then confronts you with the possibility of controlling the Reapers.

1. Appealing to the simple concept of "better me in charge than someone else, I'll do it better".
2. Appealing to the player's idea that their Shepard is special (an idea that was cleverly reinforced by Harbinger in ME2)
3. Appealing to the idea that that the player did everything he could to build this powerful device that was left for us to find by a previous cycle and is conveniently easy to build (although costly in resources). On top of that we have no idea how it works. It sounds exactly like the mass relays and all the other Reaper tech that we once assumed to be Prothean. Not to mention it conveniently pops up in our moment of greatest need. It could easily be a simple ploy by the Reapers, an object that gives us hope, that we poor all our resources into, and that makes us feel empowered and special once we've built it.

At the same time, we know that everyone who ever wanted to or thought he could control the Reapers turned out to be controlled by the Reapers. We've always known the Reapers will never let anyone control them, but yeah, we'll just go ahead with it because our Shepard is special! And the Reaper overlord tells us we can, so why doubt it!

Shepard will die, and the Reapers will live, but Shepard's digital form will be in control, but I'm sure the Reapers won't rewrite it!

In synthesis, you agree that the final evolution of life is a synthesis between synthetics and organics, you believe that organics should be perfected by integrating fully with synthetic technology. Yet the Reapers deem themselves the final evolution of life, the pinnacle of existence. They deem themselves perfection. The Reapers are a synthesis of organic and synthetic. You bring everyone "into harmony with" the Reapers, exactly like Harbinger said it would happen.

Just never forget that your options boil down to:

1. Protagonist volunteers to die, antagonists live.
2. Protagonist volunteers to die, antagonists live.
3. Protagonist lives, antagonists die.

or

1. Protagonist throws away gun and commits suicide.
2. Protagonist throws away gun and commits suicide.
3. Protagonist draws gun, fights, and survives.

"We fight or we die."

Modifié par DoomsdayDevice, 26 janvier 2014 - 06:30 .

[AlanC9]

I've seen the "evidence." Tons of stuff? Tons of nonsense.

The endings are exactly what they appeared to be . TIM and Saren were simply right. Deal with it.

Modifié par AlanC9, 26 janvier 2014 - 06:34 .

[Harorrd]

That ending, that god damn ending, why would they ruin one of the best franchises i have ever played? I feel disgusted every time i try to make a new profile because i know the slap to the face i will get in the end.

[AlexMBrennan]

That's funny because IT has tons of stuff to back up its claims, while anything inconvenient for the people who take the ending at face value is being handwaved as 'bad writing'.

Oh, the old "athiesm is a religion" argument. Seriously, just swap a couple of words and you got yourself a FSTDT submission.

To me, it's obvious. You came to the Citadel to destroy the Reapers. That was the problem you promised your allies and friends to solve. Then you meet the Reaper Overlord, and suddenly the problem turns into the unavoidable and everlasting conflict between organics and synthetics. He simply confronts you with a supposedly bigger problem (that you didn't even set out to solve), and suddenly the Reapers aren't the problem any more, they're a solution, albeit a flawed one.

Fine. Exactly why does this mean that the last X minutes of the game must be a dream/hallucination/whatever, for some arbitrarily picked X? Why stop there? Could I dismiss all of ME (the "ME is just the hallucination of a drug addict" theory) if I find minor plotholes in ME1?

Do you similarly conclude that everything in Dragon Age is a hallucination because the plan didn't include Loghain betraying the Grey Wardens? Because what you said applies to every story that features a plot twist of some sort.

[dorktainian]

Harorrd wrote...

That ending, that god damn ending, why would they ruin one of the best franchises i have ever played? I feel disgusted every time i try to make a new profile because i know the slap to the face i will get in the end.

   

i feel your pain.  and yet here we are still talking about it.  

[GimmeDaGun]

I liked the ending and I think it's good. Not without flaws, but the whole trilogy has a great share of them, so it's nothing new. My two cents.

Are there really still people out there who keep beleiving in the IT? Wow! Conspiracy theories never get old, it seems.

[CrutchCricket]

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

EntropicAngel wrote...

Didn't read past the second sentence.

Just let it die, friend. Let it go.

Just let it die and move on EA. Just do it.

A man can dream... a man can dream.