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A game dev's perspective on ME3 fan requests

Débuté par chris2365 , janv. 26 2014 02:53

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#1
chris2365
Posté 26 janvier 2014 - 02:53

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 A game developer recently adressed a fan's 539 page document listing improvements to ME3. In my opinion, this could also apply to most fan requests concerning any video game.

Link: http://pages.citebit...m/k2u6v5w1u0ehd

While I and most fans always want more out of our games, I think he's right concerning his opinion. We can always ask for more mission variety, more RPG systems, etc., but in the end it comes down to time and budget, and while it is possible to make design errors or think that ''oh, this can be easy to add'', we lack context.

If it's any reassurance to those here, this game dev's opinion seems to be echoed by the Bioware staff. A recent example would be a request for a holster for weapons in DAI. A bioware member said that while they can examine the possibilty, it might not be possible to accomplish (technical reasons) or another feature (animation) might have to be cut.

Modifié par chris2365, 26 janvier 2014 - 02:53 .

#2
SwobyJ
Posté 26 janvier 2014 - 02:57

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Completely agree.

Except really, they really really could have cut Kai Leng and used that space/time/resources for something else. Really. Because ew Kai Leng.

#3
chris2365
Posté 26 janvier 2014 - 03:11

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SwobyJ wrote...

Completely agree.

Except really, they really really could have cut Kai Leng and used that space/time/resources for something else. Really. Because ew Kai Leng.


They could have done that. Or at the very least they could have reduced his insane amount of plot armor, his annoyingness, and his ''hah Shepard, you are too stupid to shoot me while I'm on the floor'' moments.

#4
chemiclord
Posté 26 janvier 2014 - 03:33

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The argument about Garrus shirtless can also be applied to rendering Tali sans helmet.

What is DOESN'T do is excuse some of the very sloppy execution that WAS done, however.

#5
Guest_EntropicAngel_*
Posté 26 janvier 2014 - 03:37

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I get the sense that hoorayforicecream is part of that tumblr.

But, yeah. I agree with the author. It's incredibly easy to just write out how something should work. That takes twenty minutes, an hour if it's something complex or long. But the cost is much, much greater in actual voice work, animation/cutscene/cinematic work, all that stuff.

#6
SwobyJ
Posté 26 janvier 2014 - 03:39

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chemiclord wrote...

The argument about Garrus shirtless can also be applied to rendering Tali sans helmet.

What is DOESN'T do is excuse some of the very sloppy execution that WAS done, however.


Anddddd completely agreed with this too. The article has a great point that many lazy critics ignore. At the same time, Bioware, sheesh, what was on your minds when you did some of this stuff? Even allowing for some greater artistic/creative reason behind it all (humor me here), it doesn't make a better *product*. It just doesn't!
In this example, really, just leave the helmet on.

Modifié par SwobyJ, 26 janvier 2014 - 03:40 .

#7
chris2365
Posté 26 janvier 2014 - 03:45

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SwobyJ wrote...

chemiclord wrote...

The argument about Garrus shirtless can also be applied to rendering Tali sans helmet.

What is DOESN'T do is excuse some of the very sloppy execution that WAS done, however.


Anddddd completely agreed with this too. The article has a great point that many lazy critics ignore. At the same time, Bioware, sheesh, what was on your minds when you did some of this stuff? Even allowing for some greater artistic/creative reason behind it all (humor me here), it doesn't make a better *product*. It just doesn't!
In this example, really, just leave the helmet on.


Agreed. This article doesn't talk about sloppy execution or just bad ideas. I mean, if you have to remove a feature due to a lack of time, that's fine. If you decide ''well, let's make it half baked and put it out anyways'', that's what isn't right.

#8
jtav
Posté 26 janvier 2014 - 03:46

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Which doesn't excuse some very odd prioritization. Let's take my favorite character. Miranda did not need five conversations to carry out her actual plot role. Cut the second conversation and you lose pretty much nothing. Frees up the word budget for Ash (same writer even) or Jack or for Miranda to talk about a broader range of topics. TIM's Citadel conversation is too long. And so on. And that's just character stuff.

#9
Guest_StreetMagic_*
Posté 26 janvier 2014 - 03:47

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Kai Leng is a rush job and a product of major rewrites. I think that's what's was on their mind mostly. All that we need to know is that Thessia used to be something different and had to be overhauled late in the process. That's not going to get the same kind of scrutiny as earlier/well established ideas. Maybe it'd have been executed better if they had more time.

I don't know about Tali, but I suspect her role wasn't entirely decided upon until late in development (there's hints of that from Hudson, commenting on how Weekes pushed them to get Tali in the game). If that's the case, then maybe they didn't have the budget to do a real face at that stage. Although, if you ask me, I don't care about Tali enough anyways. Not for this game at least. Or ME2 for that matter. But whatever.

Modifié par StreetMagic, 26 janvier 2014 - 03:48 .

#10
SwobyJ
Posté 26 janvier 2014 - 03:51

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It is true that Kai Leng and Tali were issues in development. Possibly with more time given to polish things out, we wouldn't have what we got.

At the same time, the process of game development (opposed to movie editing, novel rewrites, etc) got us an annoying result :(

#11
spirosz
Posté 26 janvier 2014 - 03:54

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EntropicAngel wrote...

I get the sense that hoorayforicecream is part of that tumblr.

But, yeah. I agree with the author. It's incredibly easy to just write out how something should work. That takes twenty minutes, an hour if it's something complex or long. But the cost is much, much greater in actual voice work, animation/cutscene/cinematic work, all that stuff.


And that is the problem with most fans wanting or believing certain changes would work out for the better.  They usually don't think of the cost, actual work to be put in, etc - so... 

#12
Guest_StreetMagic_*
Posté 26 janvier 2014 - 04:05

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I expect games to be rushed - I even expect them to be buggy as hell (well, to a point). It just sucks that there's an air of finality about the whole thing. I get the feeling they haven't said everything they wanted to say, or execute it the way they wanted to, and that's tragic. This era of Mass Effect is effectively over. The team is now broken up, and there's some other team doing god-knows-what with the setting. It's a lame and confusing position to put fans in. And yes, I call myself a fan. I only say this because I actually like Mass Effect. If I didn't care, I wouldn't say anything at all.

Modifié par StreetMagic, 26 janvier 2014 - 04:06 .

#13
spirosz
Posté 26 janvier 2014 - 04:10

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Why do you expect games to be rushed?

#14
AlanC9
Posté 26 janvier 2014 - 04:10

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That was the guy who thought that your P/R scores should determine what ending you got, right? Unfeasability is the least of the problems with that pile. But that dev article is good.

Modifié par AlanC9, 26 janvier 2014 - 04:11 .

#15
Guest_StreetMagic_*
Posté 26 janvier 2014 - 04:11

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spirosz wrote...

Why do you expect games to be rushed?


Because the industry is run by greedy, fat man children who need 12 lamborghinis.

#16
spirosz
Posté 26 janvier 2014 - 04:13

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StreetMagic wrote...

spirosz wrote...

Why do you expect games to be rushed?


Because the industry is run by greedy, fat man children who need 12 lamborghinis.


If only. 

#17
Guest_JujuSamedi_*
Posté 26 janvier 2014 - 04:15

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Mass effect was not going to executed properly in 2 years. The scope was just too big.

Modifié par TipsLeFedora, 26 janvier 2014 - 04:19 .

#18
Guest_StreetMagic_*
Posté 26 janvier 2014 - 04:16

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spirosz wrote...

StreetMagic wrote...

spirosz wrote...

Why do you expect games to be rushed?


Because the industry is run by greedy, fat man children who need 12 lamborghinis.


If only. 


I'm not talking about developers btw. I'm talking about the people who own their companies.

#19
dreamgazer
Posté 26 janvier 2014 - 04:17

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AlanC9 wrote...

That was the guy who thought that your P/R scores should determine what ending you got, right? Unfeasability is the least of the problems with that pile.


I still can't believe that, on top of the writer thinking it was the right way to "fix" the game. 

#20
AlanC9
Posté 26 janvier 2014 - 04:17

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TipsLeFedora wrote...

Mass effect was not going to executed properly in a year. The scope was just too big.


A year?

#21
Guest_StreetMagic_*
Posté 26 janvier 2014 - 04:19

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I didn't even read the article. So this is all about the "ending" then? Because I'm tired of that subject. I'm up for harping on about how lame ME2 characters' roles are or how juvenile Kai Leng is portrayed.

Modifié par StreetMagic, 26 janvier 2014 - 04:20 .

#22
spirosz
Posté 26 janvier 2014 - 04:19

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StreetMagic wrote...

spirosz wrote...

StreetMagic wrote...

spirosz wrote...

Why do you expect games to be rushed?


Because the industry is run by greedy, fat man children who need 12 lamborghinis.


If only. 


I'm not talking about developers btw. I'm talking about the people who own their companies.


To be fair, most of them aren't making that much more money - at least from the way I view it.  

#23
spirosz
Posté 26 janvier 2014 - 04:20

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StreetMagic wrote...

I didn't even read the article. So this is all about the "ending" then? Because I'm tired of that subject. I'm up for harping on though about how lame ME2 characters' roles are or how juvenile Kai Leng is portrayed. As usual.


No it's a good article, it's just questioned asked to a developer and his thoughts about them the recent "fan re-write" was a question and he answered, which is relevant here. 

#24
Guest_EntropicAngel_*
Posté 26 janvier 2014 - 04:21

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StreetMagic wrote...

I'm not talking about developers btw. I'm talking about the people who own their companies.


So you mean us middle-class folks with a little money in our IRAs that want good returns on our investments?

"Shareholders" is a lot, lot, LOT broader than "Rich rich people."

Modifié par EntropicAngel, 26 janvier 2014 - 04:22 .

#25
Obadiah
Posté 26 janvier 2014 - 04:23

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I was actually comforted by the air of finality. I'm tired of creators of fiction getting me hooked on some plot and then endlessly stringing me along with stories that just go on and on and on... They said it would be 3 games. They made 3 games. Shepard dead, legacy guides civilization, done.
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